Marriage with kids in strain
Hi, Koi here.
Am new to 7 Cups. Not sure how best to start but here's what flowing from the mind..
My wife and I have been married for over 12 years now. We have young kids.
The early days of marriage was honeymoon like they say.
Things changed when our first kid arrived. Don't get me wrong; I love my children more than my life and anything else in this world.
So does my wife, and we prioritised our kids. This, both of us are guilty of.
It doesn't help that being first time parents, we had a long and steep learning curve. Parents, in-laws, her sister and friends jumped in to give their 2 cents without knowing what they are saying or the situations warranted.
This led to major rifts and conflict between my wife and me. The first call for divorce came from my wife some two years into our marriage when my firstborn was 1 years plus.
Subsequently, there were the 2nd, 3rd threats for divorce.
There are many issues that hurt the marriage. These being
1.Her parents and sister's constant intrusion into our privacy. They call her on video every single night to nose about everything that's happening in my home and family.
2. A friend of my wife who is stuck in an unhappy and abusive marriage. She has been constantly texting my wife to complain about her husband and life. Not withstanding, she has also dropped many untruthful opinions that has hurt my marriage with my wife. I talked to my wife years back to distance herself from this friend. Alas, this conversation always hurl us into arguments.
3. My wife claims that she is asexual. She has never mentioned this while we were dating, and it is only after we have gotten married did I realised that she activity shuns intimacy. To the extend I was even left wondering during the initial few years after we got married, if her sexual preference is women. Sex to her was just a means to procreated. Anything else is excessive and my problem or leverage over me.
4. When I first got to know my wife, it was a combination of communication, companionship and comfort with each other, that had prompted me to explore and deepened the relationship between us. Fast forward to this day, we are husband and wife in name, coparents to our kids, that once in a blue moon sex partner, and more often, stranger in the same house.
5. I did wondered and asked my wife if she had married me then as a form of escape. Her family had been abusive to her, with her sister who suffered from anorexia and bulimia being the greatest prepatrator. To give an idea of what had happened, her sister would force my wife to eat when she sees food in their house. The sister would fly into rage, tear up the leather sofa and smash the glass table in their living room. I kid you not - this is a key reason why I have always been reluctant to allow my children to visit or interact too much with my wife's maiden family. This inevitably added to the tension in the marriage.
The most recent skirmish came on last Saturday when my wife's toxic friend texted her again. My youngest daughter was crying and I was trying to pat her to sleep in the baby carrier. I needed some help as my baby kept crying for her mother and struggled dangerously in the baby carrier. Frustrated, I called out to my wife to tend to our daughter first. She prioritied texting her friend, and that sparked off another cold war lasting till today. My baby is now running a fever and asleep as I typed.
I touch my heart and say in earnest. I know I am not the perfect husband or father. There are better ones out there and in here.
But I do my utmost best where I can in both roles.
Every woman wish for their boyfriend and husband to be successful. I work my butt off to scale the Corporate ladder so that I can earn more and provide my wife and family with a better and comfortable life.
It's not like I spend all the time in office. If there are outstanding work, I bring them back home but continue working on them only after I spend quality time with my children and tucking them to bed.
I have not neglected my wife too. Frequently asking if she is doing fine at work, with the kids etc. Sadly, she is more keen to talk about things with her parents and friends.
Compounding the above and the time spent on ***, Netflix and WhatsApp with her friends, I get the bottom of the barrel in terms of her time and companionship.
Texting and sharing, I feel only an impending gloom. The realisation that my marriage is done and gone. And yet for the sake of my kids' mental health and growing up journey, I will need to endure and continue to live with the stranger my wife has become.
How do we live each day, when there is a part of us that is dead inside?
Anyway, my apologies for the very long post.
Maybe this is what men in their mid forties do when they struggle to figure out what to do with a failing marriage and a mid life crisis.
I read this and I see:
Unmet needs. Concerns about the welfare of the child. Impactful boundary violations.
If you want it, I have a story that can validate your story.
I feel for you in your situation.
@SolarGenerator Thank you for sharing. And yes, I would be glad to listen to your story if you may be kind to share.
Lessons about Life are best learnt from friends whom have walked similar paths, gained wisdom and are generous to share.
Thank you again.
@Koi2033 (shared with permission) My friend had a wife that would cry and talk for hours to him, about how unhappy
she was with him. She didn't understand that telling him about him, why he was
not satisfying her, was a problem for him. Then she would talk to her
friends about their intimate problems. It was jarring for him, very
upsetting. She didn't understand why that would upset him either. They went to counseling. He
didn't know what to do. The counselor told him that it was up to him to
decide. He doesn't blame her anymore, she was at the point
of development where's she's at, and he can't change that. But he can
change himself, and by the grace of God, he did.
@SolarGenerator Thanks for sharing. And yes! My wife's friend asked about our intimacy details too! That was so annoying.
I am curious about your friend's situation. If it is okay to share further, what or which aspect did your friend change? E.g did he managed to patch up with his wife? Or did he throw in the towel and leave sadly?
@Koi2033 I can be messaged on the side with your listener account if you want.
@Koi2033
You both have unmet needs and while we see our own........ we sometimes do not see our partners.
Looking back seldom helps as we all make decisions sometimes without full information and disclosure. I agree the constant putting in their opinions by family and friends is like sprinkling gas on a fire. Sometimes like her friend who is leaving or planning on leaving her marriage try to convince a friend they should become single too like it will be a safety net having a friend in same shoes.
There seems to be a lot you both need to talk about........ some do well with marriage counseling others can reach each other on their own,
look deep at what a divorce will entail.... ( some even consulted a lawyer to discuss what really happens with division) woke up the partner quick that you are not playing but taking her threats seriously .... ....... separate homes / separating finances ... kids reactions / what about life moving forward step parents coming in mix. long term how do kids respond often wishing their parents stayed together. acting out or developing fear of marriage when they grow up
When people loosely threaten divorce or play along with how the grass is greener with a friend who wants to spread her misery ....... they do not consider or see the big picture or collateral damage.
once you reach each other again on an emotional level and connect .... many other issues can be worked on.
Have you asked her about her own needs? ...
some people think all want a successful career and money and security makes up for the disconnect and emotional side...... it does not............. we are sold these ideas from media/ tv / movies and while trying to live up to some made up list ...........we are NOT meeting our partners list.....
marriage should never be measured or compared by a poll or what society says women or men want .... treat you partner like HER not person playing the part of WIFE is .....
deep conversation is HARD......... learning to not walk on eggshells worrying about if you step on their toes ... it will happen . explaining her family has its own problems why follow that path./ advice..
same with friend .... talking about what you both see as vision of future and you might find you are not that far off in what you want or that one person has ideas the other did not see.
@toighTiger6481 Thank you so much for your insightful sharing, my learnt friend.
I read your reply over a few times to digest and appreciate them better.
The suggestion to sit down with my wife and talk about what would really happen in the scenario of a divorce is something we have not thought of, or done before. It got me thinking deeply as well, as to what I am willing to forsake or give up.
My kids, (all daughters) are everything to me, and the thought of them growing up negatively affected and frightened by their understanding of marriage is a scenario I want to avoid.
Beyond this, I see pathway or framework of sorts, that I can reference to as I try repair the relationship.
I can foresee it would be easy, and frankly reasonable to ask my wife to shut off her family. I wouldn't want her to such a cold person as well. That'll be frightening to know as she can then easily cut me off like a snap of her fingers.
Her toxic and scary friend will however need to go. She spies even on my LinkedIn to snoop for goodness know whatever reason. I have got to think harder on how to have the conversation with my wife on this.
Again, I very much appreciate your time and generousity to share the perspective and suggestions. Thank you again.
@toughTiger6481
Oh dear, I am so sorry for the typo in my reply above. It's my fat fingers on the tiny screen...
@Koi2033
I hope i gave you some things to think of ...
i agree asking to cut off family is not reasonable but pointing out they have issues too why emulate them may let her listen politely if they do chime in but take it with a grain of salt.
her friend spying is trying to find a wedge to make you look bad again she has her own agenda .. i have seen this before. going over what REALLY happens after divorce is an eye opener ... most do not like that path.
@Koi2033,
it seems she feels emotionally more safe with others rather then with you.
I've made the mistake to focus on finding a good job so my wife could cut down on working hours or even quit her job and focus on where her heart lies at ( she's a spiritual healer).
Later, too late, I understood she simply wanted me to love her, accept her ( she's complicated and traumatized) and be there.
Have you ever talked to her about her needs, how you can help her? Expressed any intentions (I have learned that intentions can be good in themselves but might backfire if you don't express them first).
@dukeofdearham Good point shared, Duke. I did tried to ask my wife regularly throughout the years. Sort of to check in on her mental health and wellbeing.
Her consistant reply is that she is tired or she wanted more 'me' time for herself. I've always respected her need and tried to give her as much space and time as a married couple. She had an episode of post natal depression a few years ago after our 2nd kid was born, so I witnessed and experienced first hand how her thoughts can be affected then.
@Koi2033,
seems like something happened that made her withdraw and drift away. Creating her own safe world and it feels like you are not included.
I've been there too. Let's say I experienced a lot of bad luck for years until something broke and I got depressed. That didn't help my marriage. My wife withdrew and created het safe world with friends. Especially one man she got emotionally close with. Not trusting me, not feeling save with me.
We tried relationship but didn't work out. My wife has had a tough life, is very sensitive, emotionally not strong and has trauma. Even without me being depressed (not anymore, thank God), there would've been issues. Her trust issues. Her past, her traumas.
Maybe you guys can try relationship therapy to try to communicate openly from the heart. And maybe your wife could do with her own therapist.
If she agrees, it's gonna be a long tough ride, requiring a lot of love, patience and understanding from you.
If she doesn't agree, then it's time to make a decision and chose you.
@Dukeofdearham I feel your pain, Duke. There must have alot of 'whys' and hurt that transpired during your experience.
And you analysed it accurate. My wife has a group of friends whom she confides with. I know this because one of them is a common friend and she once asked if things were all right between my wife and I some years ago during a tensed time. This group, all females, is all right. I trust them to be of good characters, fair, unbiased and most importantly, non malecious when they chat and walk issues through with my wife.
That one bad apple friend of hers is an outlier and appears to have been isolated by her own social circle. This, I learnt from my wife who would cites her as being the toxic friend's only buddy in school and life, as a strong reason for why she feels obliged to continue the friendship.
Marriage counselling is an option. I think I would need to pace that into the conversation sometime in the near future when the present tension eases.
@Koi2033,
thank you for your compassion. I hoped for a long time my wife and I could come closer, whatever that might look like. She saw no other option but divorce saying she wanted me in her life. That my triggers were too much for her and the sole reason to divorce. Saying she had full trust in me dealing with them, which I did. Calling me the love of her life. Wanting to become good friends like "you never can tell....". Like "please,don't take away friendship away from me too". Felt conditional so I passed.
Her reaching out, pulling back, reaching out until she said 'no more contact'.
I understand she needed support, feel loved, appreciated, accepted for who she is. I didn't even love myself so I understand she jumped when someone else felt like offering her that.
It damaged our relationship. She'll never admit but she knows. I never asked her to choose or break of all contact with him. Because best is to let her figure it her herself. I'm saying this because that might be your best approach. Just ignore, and start to act more independently, lead your own life. While being kind, loving. No discussions. Just be kind, gentle, show you appreciate her. Little things. Clean the windows when she's gone. Do shopping. Laundry. Be there without overdoing it. Little things.
@dukeofdearham Oh Duke... I am so sorry to hear that. Your advice about remembering and doing the little things in the relationship dusted off memories about the earlier and happier days in my marriage. I confess may have been guilty of forgetting that over the years as the quarrels piled and distance grew. Your reminder is timely, thank you.
On a separate note, I hope you are now in a better place now compared to the darker times you have endured. If there is anything I may also do to support you, eg be a listening ear or sounding board, please do let me know too my friend.
@Koi2033
Remember sometimes things cannot be ‘fixed’, even when we label them broken. To be broken we must first see the variance from the ideal concept of functionality - since this is hypothetical, it is subjective and has no true reality - we simply believe in its existence, rarely questioning anything until the deviation becomes extreme.
that being said - your situation echos and resonated with more than you think. The ‘dysfunction’ is simply masked or ignored.
You must save yourself in order to remain who you are, define who you are and retain functionality and definition in order to show your children, you, and the world at large that you are an individual with your own sense of direction.
the obstacle is the path - I empathize and sympathize - I have very similar issues, as do many of us. The ones closest should/could validate or sense of self, and we often feel so let down when they don’t.
it doesn’t mean that your sense of self is invalid or inferior - celebrate yourself and own your destiny.
as I said-it’s easier said than done and some eggs will have to broken to make this omelette!
sympathy, empathy, encouragement - take your life into your hands
@Paulrm Oh dear, I'm sorry to hear that you have had similar experience too, Paul.
I guess you can say I am desperately trying to save all myself, my marriage, and my kids from having to go through a hard time growing up because of what's happening between my wife and me.
The 1st step has been lucky - finding this platform and meeting the wonderful community here such as fellow friends who have shared their experiences and perspectives. Otherwise, I think I am going to soon turn belly up from the stress like a Koi flopping out of water on dry ground.
@Koi2033 Two failed marriages and one successful one later....
The toxic people must go it is you or them. She can take it or leave it.
I doubt sex cannot be worked out somehow as your marriage produced children. It is really the toxic "others" and if she will not choose you over them got tough choices ahead.
My 2nd marriage was pretty literally thieved by one toxic friend in particular, but there were others helping. I was forced out of the picture. I landed well and he wrecked. Bad.
@RogueOne1983 Happy to hear that your current relationship is working out well for you, RogueOne.
Thieving and toxic sounds very nasty a combination. I can only imagine the pain you went through when you eventually learnt that you are a victim of a planned betrayal from someone you might know and trusted.
@Koi2033 yeah super nasty absolutely deliberate he made basically the only condition my husband didn't have him as a friend anymore is reconciliation with me. Why? If I had been let back into the picture put first I take my steel toed boots of kickassery and boot him several leagues away. That monster didn't just destroy my marriage, he then wrecked my husband's life. My husband died of horrible choices he made following what that guy wanted. But my 2nd husband wasn't good for me; he chose that man and everything else...friends, lovers, being on the phone with businesses, game buddies I was just cook bottle washer and paid the bills. Like mom not a wife. So this did not last.
I am grateful current husband H. worked hard on his issues. He provides as much and where he is able; we are a team and his contribution is significant and necessary.
We kicked the world out focused on us coming up on almost one year; newlyweds still, w00t!!
@RogueOne1983 Oh no! Your ex-husband actually passed on as a result of bad influence from that 'friend'?! That's really terrible!
I'm really happy to hear that you found bliss and happiness in your current marriage. Isn't it strange how Life sometimes make us wonder a big circle before we are finally allowed to meet that someone who is really and ready for us? 🙂
@Koi2033 yep so true!
@Koi2033
you must live with love, because living with hate will split your soul
…..don’t pity the dead, pity the living, particularly those that live without love…!
agh why are we soooo cruel to each other?
@Paulrm brilliant and so true!!
@RogueOne1983
thanks Roqueone - not sure what makes my heart ache more. Hearing of someone else’s suffering or realizing that others, including myself, are in similar situations and understanding the prevalence of this predicament.
what are we doing to each other? Where is the empathy, honesty, respect and, dare I say it, humanity!
every problem has a solution, just cause you haven’t thought of it yet doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist!
too much money in conflict, some people seem to enjoy watching others suffer. Probably misplaced retribution for their own suffering, somewhere buried in the past.
love will build, hate will destroy.
sorry, bit of a rant - time for an ice cold lemon pop mmmmmmmmmmm lemon pop! Sweet and sour mmmmmmmmmm!
@Paulrm
mmmmmmmmm
@Paulrm "too much money in conflict" there is the key.
I put love back into the system; I am one person but I can love and the love I put out there will be carried by others hopefully and that is how we fight the dark.
And there is no money in that so few do it!!!
But it must be done even so!!!
Hi, I can see a lot of reasons why your marriage isn't working in a way.
I can see a lot of people giving an insight.
Here's one more perspective.
I will share my story.
So, I feel I'm an asexual too. I don't know if I'm sure. I talked about it with my partner before the relationship was even started but then he didn't care about it much later on and pushed me a little or used to get too upset over it. I always felt guilty about it and so I stopped sharing my emotions in it. Then it became something I did for him. I felt disrespected throughout because I thought maybe he doesn't care about me, but only about his own needs.
I was cheated on later.
So, it could be something out of guilt that she didn't tell you or the fear of you leaving her because as you said she has been in an abusive family. And that could have made her feel insecure about herself that she stopped sharing her emotions with you and instead chose to share her emotions in platonic friendships to avoid that kind of feelings. You're doing everything else and doing it right. So, maybe communicating about this side of the relationship can help you see through what's actually behind her actions.
I'm not saying my story is exactly like yours because you care a lot. But I'm just trying to give one more point of view.
Communication is the key.
@Stormandshelter
I am so sorry to hear that you suffered the pain from having been cheated on. I hope you are coping better and recovering from the episode.
I value your sharing of thoughts and feelings from the female and wife perspective. Thank you so much.
Reflecting on your experience, I realised I hadn't thought the emotions driving the distance, intimacy rejection behaviour could be guilt.
On contrary, I was always wondering if my wife was passive angry with me over something I did or say. To the extend, I even stopped the casual interactions and meeting of my regular female friends over the years.
That inevitably left me with very few friends because I studied business during university and work in an industry where colleagues are predominantly female.
My wife would always used the term 'okay, I'll give it to you' when she finally agree to intimacy once in a blue moon. Now that I've heard and learnt from your perspective, I can't help but wonder if she felt that was a transaction or service to me in the marriage.
Sigh
If I may ask, what advise would you have for me to try broach this conversation with my wife? Any tips or suggestions from the female angle as to how I can attempt so and avoid appearing as if I am trying to stir another conflict with her?
Thank you for your kind words. Yes, I'm trying to cope though it's always hard. Mainly because of the fact that although I shared this beforehand when I got to know about the cheating part, he said terrible things to me. Specially attacking that specific thing I was insecure about which made it really hard for me to cope.
Probably, you can ask her if she truly feels comfortable with you before you try to get intimate. I know it might seem like a work but it's very important to know if she's also equally happy or satisfied with it or not. Or if she truly wants it. I know it can be upsetting if she says no but you know it would be more upsetting if she does it only for your satisfaction and without emotions. Because then it won't be love anymore. And seeing you care so much about her, I don't think that would make you happy either.
Also, if she agrees then make sure you take care of her a lot next day. Not talk about the intimacy a lot or bring it in a conversation too much. Because it might get hard for her if she doesn't like talking about it a lot. There are differences in asexual people too.
Sometimes, they prefer it once in a while and not everyday because then they start feeling that sexual intimacy is more important to the other person than the overall love and none of the other things actually are. That can be a reason of disinterest in other things too because of the lack of purpose or the feeling of not being good enough. There are times that frustration of a negative image of yourself can come out in different forms if there's a lack of proper communication. The person starts fearing a lot of possible consequences. Our society is such that it sometimes doesn't see woman a woman when she's not sexual or having babies. I have myself never talked about it much out of the same fear.
I'm not saying that this is the perfect explanation but I hope you understand this side too.
Probably, you can ask her what she's comfortable with and what she isn't comfortable with. Also, not to force it. Allow her to choose it and see if it mends the relationship a little. Know her preferences and how you can help her with these things. Doesn't mean she'll say yes for it because of that but it can improve your relationship and other aspects of it.
Try to give her the kind of love where she feels like she's enough even without it. I know it might be important to you but you know sometimes we all just want to feel more human🌸
Hope that helps!
It's like I've been in the place where I thought my little cute gestures meant nothing to the other person because he always wanted the sexual intimacy. So, I couldn't make myself show them either. Because I couldn't consider it love anymore if it became that kind of one sided where other little things aren't valued anymore. That makes the other person think that none of it matters
@Stormandshelter To be hurt where it already pains must have been triple the pain. All I can say is kudos to you for having the strength to face, embrace and overcome it.
I know I said this before, but I want to say thank you again. Frankly, I think I learnt more about the perspectives and view that asexual partners may have more than I have tried to read up from Internet articles previously. All they usually provide is a definition and for us who are trying to understand our partner, it's like feeling our way around in the dark.
I have been trying to get my wife to open up and share more about her thoughts, preferences and how she feels about intimacy. I won't go into details since we may have younger under 18s around in this public chat, but the constant theme resolves around a very traditional and functional mindset that almost reseamble to have come from our parents or even grandparents' generation. E.g good girls don't initiate intimacy, it's for procreation only, some positions are good and others are slutty etc.. There is like an encyclopedia of unspoken rules and highway codes for her to note and follow as I discovered over the years.
I guess since you have shared similar advice, I should be doing at least some parts of the engagement on track.
Oh god, I wish I can get her to speak with you. But then she'll find out I am posting in here.
Pretty sure I will end up being a dead fish if she does. 🥲
Thank you! I appreciate it very much. I'm still in a recovery phase.
I totally understand your efforts and where she's coming from. Honestly, I appreciate the way you're trying to understand her. The roots are deep within so of course it would take a long time for her to get out of that shell. Can't assure you if she would ever be able to see it that way but there's just one thing. You can bring her back. Probably from someone who finds it hard talking about her emotions to someone who at least finds it less painful to talk about it.
It's more like the marriage can be saved if it relies on more than just that one aspect that's causing all the hurt if it plays that important role. So, making a shift from there if it doesn't get resolved would be a right step according to me because I can see you love her. So, it's not just one factor that made you love her. There can be a lot more things involved and I hope she get back that side of her soon and you find a way out.
These are just suggestions and I can only hope they work in some way. 🌸
The truth is even I couldn't explain it to people. I know how hard asexual people find it to. Seeing people around me building relationships based on only sexual preferences and not love can be intimidating sometimes. Makes you question yourself if it's even normal. And you don't find many people talking about it as well. Creates a sense of loneliness despite being with people. As if you're alone in your thoughts. I was at a place where I felt like my partner can choose anyone and I can't. That made me feel less of myself and I did everything to stop the person who was actually toxic to me but I just didn't feel good enough. So, things like these happen.
You know probably you can help her in another way. I don't know her or you in depth to tell you if that will work. But, you can tell her to write up her thoughts for you in text or in a diary or something. Sometimes I find writing up my thoughts easier than describing them in words vocally. Just a suggestion.
Also, you can't make her talk me haha I understand
You can use this same post to tell me how it goes and I can respond. This is actually the member account of mine being a listener because I'm on a break but if you want I'll give you that to talk :)
@Stormandshelter Your advice and encouragement is really helpful and deeply appreciated, Stormandshelter.
I managed to muster up courage to break the ice with my wife over the recent weekend. We sat down and had a long talk about where we presently are, about how I realised I was not aware of how her as an asexual spouse and partner may view certain things in a relationship, and how I had felt and interpreted many cues the unintended way.
A much better and educated understanding from the experiences and perspectives you have so kindly taken time to share has truly helped this conversation went well.
I was relieved we avoided escalation of the tension and tried my best to mend the relationship by going back to the little norms over the weekend.
This is a first and small step forward, and I do sincerely want to thank you for everything.
And yes, I would most certainly love and hope to seek your advice and thoughts. Will be sure to post SOS here in the thread if there is smoke.
The above said, I am would be most happy to lend a listening ear too if you should feel that you would like to share anything with me in your healing and recovery journey. I am not a trained listener, but I will always be here to support you.
Thank you so much again.
I'm so glad the conversation with your wife went well. I hope it only gets better from here. ✨
I'm also very proud of you that you took a step. Shows how much you care about the relationship. I really appreciate people who try not to give up the first time. 🌸
I didn't have that kind of support but I'm trying to stand up strong on my own again.
Sure, you can always post in the same thread or even let me know if you need my help as a listener. This account is just me as member because we all are on both sides sometimes.
Good luck to you! :)
@koi2033 and @stormandshelter
this conversation was extremely informative with both perspectives expressed.
i am sure anyone who reads through can learn more about this situation as many articles on subject do not make it as clear. You may not even know that something you said helped others .... i have a friend who is in a situation like this and i shared an overview of this and he understands better too.
I'm so proud of you! So nice of you to have helped someone understand the situation better. Glad I could be of some help. 🌸
@Koi2033 Is there anything you can work on in the relationship? Have you sought couples' counseling?
@blindbob Hi Bob, thank you for your note. Yes, our friends in the thread have kindly shared much helpful advice from their experiences and perspectives. I am presently pacing and having deeper conversations with my partner to identify and address the issues that affect us.
Marriage counselling is certainly a consideration as a resolution option. In the meanwhile, I am hoping the open conversations my wife and I are having would help as an effective start to the relationship repair process.
