How to Use the Steel Man Technique

I find the third to be so important to a healthy outlook. It pulls you out of the emotional entanglement, out of ego, and encourages objectivity. it shifts the emphasis of the "right" to the truth and lets the facts speak. being "right" is then seen as the truth. it feels more like problem-solving together.

@Heather225 thanks H! I'm glad you brought up the ego. There is such a temptation to chock up wins for the ego, even though all the wins quickly fade and can end up harming others. Great point on it being about co-discovery of truth or what reality looks like that matters most.

@GlenM

Being good at solving issue­s connects with understanding others. What you said se­ems like an exce­llent way to build empathy. Especially whe­n there are disagre­ements. Trying to view things from anothe­r person's view makes it simple­r to find common ground. And then work on a solution as a team. Letting go of always ne­eding to be correct ope­ns the mind. It lets you explore­ the problem dee­ply. And consider different vie­wpoints too. Life's complexities ofte­n need that broader pe­rspective, as you mentione­d. I like the idea of le­tting facts guide us. It's a practical approach that shifts focus from defending positions. To obse­rvely watching results instead. By doing this, we­ can work through disagreements be­tter. I agree with all of the points, but to answer your question, the technique I'd use the most is one. I think starting with it leads you to the other two steps.

@Jenna thank you for your thoughts here! and I like your idea how these all kind of blend in to one another. I think that is a fair point. when you shared that it made me think of them as like overlapping circles that you walk around when trying to problem solve. and that there are probably a few more circles too that we haven't yet touched on here. thank you for sharing!

@GlenM

What an insightful post. I agree problem is the path, obstacle is the way! Yet we are rarely taught in life how to deal with problems, a big part of problem solving is being able to effectively resolve differences. 

My favourite is the second point. It took me very many years to understand that no one wins an argument, every party involved bears a loss of some kind even if you seem to have won on the surface. Wise people never start one if it can be helped and pick their battles when they find themselves stuck in one. 

In general, I would like to add, pick your battles! Life is challenging and you have limited energy. Solve the problems that matter. Tackle the issues that make a difference. 

@Hope thank you Hope! and great point on choosing your battles. how do you decide which one to take and which one to leave? I've not thought about specific criteria here and I think this is a strong point. thanks for helping to think through this with us!

@GlenM

By reflecting on the outcomes of the win and the probability of your winning. If nothing significant happens if I win, then its not worth the fight. It reminds me of this quote by Marcus 'You always own the option of having no opinion. There is never any need to get worked up or to trouble your soul about things you can't control. These things are not asking to be judged by you. Leave them alone.'

Life weighs a lot less when we don't fight every battle that comes our way. It reminds me of a concept I heard about long ago where the person talks about having humility when picking our battles, we need to look at the situation at hand and decide whether we are competent enough to tackle it. For example, if I have an Uncle who has not listened to his doctors again and again, is in poor shape and suffering because of his sugar addiction, I am not going to assume I am smart or capable enough to get him to stop. I would rather spend my energy educating someone who has expressed interest in being helped. Similarly, if I have a classmate who believes mental health is not important and I should be focused elsewhere and it is clear the person does not wish to change his opinion then I am not going arguing, what would be the point? I will get worked up, he won't care. 

This is my criteria:

• If I win the battle, will it make any real difference or only please my ego? For example I am often met with this difference in recollection, sometimes my friend would say 'No you did not say that or no it happened like that', people's memories are not that realiable, I have often had proof of me being right but insisting on me being right would have hurt her and nothing would have come out of it other than me being right so what difference it makes if she thinks I am wrong. 
• Okay fine this topic matters but is there any real indication that I stand a chance to win? If the answer is no, then I am not picking up that fight. For example alot of elders of my community are absolutely set in their ways, they do not care for mental health, this is all they have known. If I argue with them trying to prove how important it is, firstly I am not gonna get anywhere because they are not changing the beliefs they have formed in 60 years over even a 60 minute conversation, secondly, I am gonna end up feeling fed up and I should instead focus my energy on helping the many people who want support. 

The above examples are more relevant for argument styles battles but same can be implemented on all sorts of battles we come across. 

In general, I am not a perfect person so I will stray away from these rules and there will also be times when it is necessary to stand up for something despite having no real chance of winning that battle. But the above is a good method for tackling day to day battles that you are unsure about. The bigger battles are usually decided based on core values. 

@Hope thanks for sharing and I can feel your passion for mental health here to help others! And it also seems like you've tried to persuade elders or other folks a number of times and found out that it ended up frustrating you and making less impact on them. Reminds me of the idea that sometimes people are just not ready for things (the stages of change idea) and how if we try to get someone to see something before they are ready, then it won't work. However, if we can detect when they are ready, and then help them then our efforts will be more fruitful for them (and less frustrating for us!). 

Having a sense of trust helps me with this. i.e., like you, I have often really cared for folks and wanted to help them, but they are not yet ready. I now tell myself, okay, when this person is ready they'll address this issue with me or with someone else and get the help they need (it might be painful for them to get there. in AA/NA the call it "hitting bottom" for a reason). I tell myself that I'll be there when they need me. The sense of urgency then fades. Interpersonally, they might feel "hey Glen isn't trying to persuade me, he just seems to like being with me, maybe I'll ask Glen about X now." An odd human dynamic! 

And thank you for sharing your criteria. I like that: Is this going to benefit me or the other person in a real way? If the fruit of it is not there - it isn't really valuable - then it isn't worth the battle. That is a very simple and effective way of looking at it!

@GlenM

That is a good way of looking at it! 

@GlenM

Thank you for these valuable insights🌟

@WeEarth thank you for reading and glad it was helpful!

thank you Glenn from the bottom of my heart for this awesome platform. This platform has given me more of a motivation to advocate for those with disabilities struggling with mental health. I just want to say thank you for being my hero.

@Countrygirl095 thank you from the bottom of my heart for looking out for others, especially those with disabilities! I appreciate the careful thinking and support you provide across the forums :)

@GlenM

What would you suggest if none of the above work.

#1 partner #2 knows the "I'm tired " is a get out of it no  argument so it becomes the stand by and those future this weekend plan NEVER materialize because ... guess what they are tired then too.... 

#2 you are correct we may be trying to show someone another perspective but in the end just being right a lot is hollow .... but putting it aside for the sake of being right is temporary we find no one wins but that is sort of against human nature.... 

#3 the wait and see often leads to "I told you so"  or unless we get in writing or recorded .. my sig other claims they never took the position they did ......

I am all for finding a solution and have stopped and  did not argue points to be right... but unless you are dealing with a person with  mutual respect and maturity these have not worked in past for myself . 

@toughTiger6481 I appreciate the reality of these thoughts and questions. Relationships can definitely be challenging and there needs to be two people committed to making them work. It is hard to do, but one technique that helps is the "I feel statements." You can find a good discussion here: https://www.7cups.com/forum/relationships/CopingToolsResourcesforRelationships_1161/MasteringIStatementsforHealthierRelationships_302818/. Also, you might find John Gottman's work interesting. He provides a lot of structure that helps couples learn how to better argue. Here is a quick overview of the 4 horseman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o30Ps-_8is. And here is a summary of his key book: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knBJGNisJS0. 

Thank you so much for the thoughtful post Glenn. i agree with 2 - it is not helpful to think who is right and who is wrong it puts one person in superiority and the other person in the inferiority position. Say for example someone’s word choice and how often they use it with you or how often you use a particular word choice “actually”, “obviously” can either leave you unbothered or feel belittled. Both parties should be willing to listen to the themes of how the content of what they say comes across - give each other space , time , chance, accountability. It’s about developing the humility to listen to the other side of the story - communication is an ongoing process . As you develop your communication skills you can view situations , people’s motivations and intentions behind what they say differently. Asking for permission before giving feedback is needed first.

I was at a shop and was really shocked and upset that the cashiers were chatting about a customer , belittling her that she apologised for overreacting . The cashier was saying “I told her it was fine” but did not mean it. it takes courage to apologise - shout out to anyone who does reflect before or after an interaction. What’s important is people learn and grow.

@GoldenRuleJG I can see that you are living up to your username! :) 

Great points on the importance of language. It is easy to use words in a less gentle way when we get frustrated and upset and even more challenging to reflect after those instances. If you had a friend that was less aware of the helpfulness of these behaviors, how would you help them see that word choice and reflection can be an aid in helping them get to where they want to go?

Thats a great question - hear their side of the story and explain their motivation and intention behind what they said. Maybe to think of the times where they apologised and the emotions they felt when apologising or ask them to reflect on words they find triggering - could it be they did not find the words triggering so they felt that language was ok to use? How it feels when someone doesn’t truly forgive you? The greatest learner is time , relationship , learning about your purpose in this world, whether or not you’re accepting of help, understanding your own value, thoughts/feelings on free will.

What can work possibly could be to take the time out when your emotions are really amped - let the person know you need a bit of time alone to process and then come back if that’s a big struggle to regulate (think of the sensations - you may clench your fists , you may sigh a lot). Be forgiving of yourself and then maybe you are more likely to be forgiving of others . Everything is a journey. I’d tell them that all human beings are imperfect but works in progress .

@GoldenRuleJG thanks you for sharing :). Love this, "Everything is a journey...all human beings are imperfect but works in progress"

@GlenM

How do I Steel Man this?

My wife wants to sell our house and divorce.  I don't want to divorce, I want to work on things.  Also, we have two sons who are 6 and 9 years old.  Thank you in advance.

@ChannaBanana This is a challenging situation and a good question. It is tough to go wrong with an empathic take or perspective on things, but I also don't want to minimize the complexity of what you and your family are navigating. If your wife is willing, then a Gottman certified therapist for couples therapy could be especially helpful. I'll be thinking about you and your family 🙏.

@GlenM 

My wife seems to have already made up her mind regarding divorce and selling our house.  She sent me an email last night at midnight.  I wrote her back and asked that we discuss all she mentioned in the email in person tonight.  How am I supposed to handle this--I'd prefer to not get divorced and work on our relationship.  Also, I'm scared how our son's will react if we do get divorced (they are 6 & 9 years old).  Not to mention selling our house and finding a new place to live that can accommodate me and my sons.  Blah, I'm depressed and feel hopeless.

@ChannaBanana, it sounds like you are following a good path of staying calm and trying to work things out. And it also sounds like it is difficult and likely will continue to be challenging. I think it is great that you are being very mindful of your boys.

This will likely be an evolving situation. The key piece is to focus on the things you can control (think serenity prayer type ideas). One of those areas is the level of support. If you have the option of accessing a therapist to help you with this - an expert that has gone down this path before and helped others- then that is the ideal situation. If that isn't an option, then there are a lot of great listeners here and also our sharing circle where you can drop in at any point to get filled up and supported by others. The key thing to keep in mind is that you do not have to do this alone. There are great people here that can lend you support along the journey.

@GlenM

My wife and I had a long conversation last night.  It didn't go the way I hoped.  We are getting divorced and selling our current house.  We now will have to figure out a way to tell our sons about all of this, sell our house and find two new places to live for my wife and I.  Blah, not looking forward to any of this.

@ChannaBanana that sounds like a really tough conversation. I hope you can find support with a therapist and here on 7 Cups. And again great job thinking about your boys. Oftentimes the kids get lost in the process, so kudos to you for being a thoughtful, smart and strong parent. 

@GlenM I can appreciate everything you're saying .. I really do ,, However , I've been studying humanity/ society for 35 years and not only is it Crap .. but it's only gotten and getting worse so .. doesn't matter in this day and age what " angle "/ approach you use to an argument .. grey rock / the walking Away from the argument .. is the only thing nowadays to do because there is a wave / breakout .. pandemic of narcissist like bacteria .. only those of faith understand

@SpicyOrchid8440 hey there, thanks for posting. I think there are a lot of negative things, neutral things, and positive things happening. I know sometimes it can feel hopeless and like it isn't really worth trying - like hey what kind of impact can I make or can this group make. And certainly the more challenging things that happen both personally or on a group level the more that feeling can weigh us down. I don't want to minimize any of the challenges we collectively face. There are plenty! 

AND I think that being an optimist can be a rational approach. I can only speak for me personally. If I didn't think we had a good shot at figuring things out (individually, collectively etc.) then I wouldn't try and then that would be the likely outcome - we don't figure it out (this would be true for me as a person, true for my family, and true for 7 cups). However, if I believe that we can figure it out, we have a better shot at finding the path. (And, for most things, I think there are many paths to figuring things out. Sometimes they are hidden or it isn't the right time, but I think those paths exist if we persevere). And, last, again just for me, I'd much rather try to make things better even if I fail, because I think that results in a better quality of life. It makes life more meaningful for me and can result in me helping others too, which is a nice bonus!