Feedback on post deletion and 7 cups site structure in relation to mental health and integration

@RarelyCharlie I think @MistyMagic mean well. I tend to give people benefit of the doubt. I don't need an apology.

@CalmRosebud

I very much agree with what @RarelyCharlie says above.

I initially thought the Forum Deletions thread could be a good idea, but I was once tagged into it and the notifications are persistent, I understand the term of public shaming, it is on display for all to see, maybe an inbox message would be more useful maybe.

@iCareUK

As listeners, we are always told to respect the privacy and confidentiality of members, and in terms of Forum Deletions, this should remain the case whether someone is a member or a listener, and this should not be publicly addressed.

I understand also regarding the robotic effect, I have taken a number of roles, but I will not allow myself to become robotic, I speak to people as human beings, in the same way I'd sit with a friend who came around after hearing bad news, there is no need for it to be any less, or any more.

@iCareUK I'm glad to hear that's the case with you. My experience with bureaucracies and "professionalism" is that the human touch can easily be lost if the script is too stiff. I can point to some movies that emphasize this message, but I can also say that was my personal experience, but again, the train towards burnout sometimes chugs along at a rate we personally cannot predict. So, perhaps, I was heading towards burnout without recognizing the signs. When I recognized the signs (good for me), I told the relevant parties that I would be taking a self-care break early. I didn't engage in any hurtful behavior. I protected myself.

@iCareUK I agree with the idea of the inbox message. I agree I was rude in my response to the unhelpful comment. I'm no angel. I am a human not a bot. I felt I could share personal information (my story), and honestly, that was a lapse in judgement on my part and my reaction to the simple message surprised even me. I am sorry actually. And glad that was taken down. And glad to be lectured, just not in public.

@CalmRosebud

You raise very good points, I am glad you noticed signs, because as you say, we can easily be travelling full steam ahead to burnout, and we need to ensure this doesn't happen.

I often get confused why a member becomes a listener, they are given basic training but are then expected to be working at "Professional" standards, I have even some posts here speaking of spelling and grammar, I am personally not too bad at spelling, but grammar is an issue for me, even now, but when you allow literally anybody to become a listener, you have to be prepared for a huge range of different types of people with a huge range of different backgrounds and abilities, some people cannot be "trained" to be a certain way, they may have physical, mental or learning issues that prevents this.

In this same way, the standard should be the same throughout, and I am really not liking the publicity of knowing that @???'s post was removed because it was graphic and racist (Example), because this makes people feel isolated, whilst fully open to lecture, criticism and abuse.

Even if you were rude, I think it is justifiable to be honest, but yes, I don't like the public idea, I was once asked to complete a training session on the forums, which was a no-go situation, for that very reason, it's too open and public, and I'm not an open and public person.

@iCareUK The reason that you are getting persistent notifications is because when a person posts in a thread, that action automatically adds the person to the notify/tag list every time another post is added. You can untag yourself by going to the original post and clicking on the tag button which is bottom left of that post.

Listening - One Step At A Time!

@CalmRosebud

Thank you so much for sharing this. I read every bit of it, and I really want to thank you for voicing this out loud. At 7 Cups, I've noticed the huge differentiation between listeners and members, too, and I'm so happy someone has finally addressed it. While I understand the importance of listeners being professional, I completely understand why some listeners would feel like their right to be lighthearted and talk about their own problems was taken away by the regulations. It perpetuates the myth that listeners have no problems and just simply exist to help others. I see both sides of the argument - I get that the role of listeners is to listen and help and if they talk about their own problems from their listener account, it'll seem like they are all sad too which can discourage members, but limiting what they say to only positive and supportive stuff can also make them seem estranged to the members at the same time. Sometimes the best thing you can do for someone is to get on their level and tell them you get it. Sometimes enforcing positivity can be toxic in excess, and the best thing a listener can do for a member is to show their sad side, too, so that the member can see they aren't alone and that their listener is a person with problems just like them. Overall though, just thank you for posting this. I'm so proud of you for it and grateful that you did. Wishing you the best!

@BlueSkies1021 The part that scared me was that I asked to have my original post then down. I wanted to share it, initially, but my trust was shot. Trust is a tricky thing. Websites make it harder. Online free websites attract all sorts. When will I finally learn that? Maybe that's the lesson for me. Be cautious. Proceed cautiously. Protect myself.

@CalmRosebud

I completely understand why that would be scary. I've had a post torn down, too because I "sought support from a listener account and should have just switched to my member account to post it", but the truth is online trust is definitely difficult. I decided to just let the situation go, but it would be totally valid for someone to feel discouraged and silenced by something like this and I would get that, too. Listeners deserve to show that they're human beings to members too, and honestly in some cases that would even be better for the member. Because it would remove the rift between the listener and member as the listener being the person with the power and mental stability and the member being a helpless person in need of help. This stigma is part of the reason why mental health is so alienated in the first place. No one is "meant" to only give or only receive support, and members and listeners alike deserve that understanding.

That’s incredibly validating. I believe the thought of “the other” is the cause of much conflict, war, strife. I wish for peace. I also wish to let it go.

@CalmRosebud

Thank you again for being brave and sharing your views - it's courageous folks like you that make change in our world :)

The reason messaging people with the 1-1 system wouldn't work is there would be no one to contact everyone. I can only message adult listeners. For some members, no one can initiate a chat.

I was really happy when this had been announced https://www.7cups.com/forum/7CupsLeadership_188/SafetyGuidelines_1374/ForumUpdateABetterModerationSystem_216996/

I actually have no idea how well anyone got feedback under that system and when it stopped. All I know is there were situations that lead to immediate account suspensions at one point and that no longer occurred after a while without any information. Eventually we were told it no longer did what it used to, but I don't know the timeframe of the dropped function to being informed.

I think having that system working and expanded would be ideal and would remove the need for commenting in forums about edits (where they take place) and deletions. This could also tie into the behaviour points system/a queue to be reviewed by a 2nd person (I would hope to have some red flags with immediate action with possibility for review and consequences adjusted as needed). I don't know why chatrooms had a system put in much earlier than forums and forums took a long time to get something in place and then had some of the functionality removed.

You’re giving me food for thought.

I’m willing to be part of the solution but will not respond for awhile now!

Happy holidays, whatever holidays are for you, and all the best for a better new year to all. Praying for peace. That’s a continuous prayer from my end.

@CalmRosebud Thank you so much for courageously sharing your thoughts, again, even after hate-filled responses and rejection. I greatly appreciate your words of wisdom, and I too have seen the off-balanced dichotomy between member/listener. As a listener, I definitely do not want to become a programmed robot, and I appreciate ALL voices on this forum, no matter education level, background, language, culture, number of path steps or status. Thank you for bringing this to light again.

Hi, purple lady,

Thank you for your very kind thoughts. I was pondering, as I am wont to do, and what I appreciate most about your statement is perhaps the implicit equality of Sharing Circles is what I like so much. Everyone (who is a member) can have an equal shot at up to 7 minutes of attention to their words. How often does that happen in real life with all the competing distractions? How often does everyone have an equal chance to participate? Some kind of magic happens when each person has the chance to articulate, to the best of their ability. It’s energy, it’s healing, it’s affirming. There’s power in the fact of such a short span of time, and everyone attending or listening, in building a community. I think you caught that in your comments. Thank you.