Sexting and flirting at 7 Cups

Thanks for this superbly timed post. More and more and more reports come into my inbox from new Listeners with regards to this issue, all the time. In the end to all the listeners I have only one thing to say: who you talk to, is YOUR choice. Empower yourself!

Internet can be a scary place. Behind anonymity, people become fearless. And people target people. But we must make sure we actively make this community safe - specifically for the female community here. ^_^

Having said that, @Laura , I think that it is time we have some sort of mechanism to actively stop this. As the size of the community grows, there are BOUND to be stalkers and spammers(already seen phishing links in forums). The goal is have an admin up 24X7, but ideally its impossible. Therefore this is my suggestion for it:

report button on profiles: For all reports, quality mentors(or someone??) should be able to temporarily hit suspend/remove the report till further notice...report option should have reason properly mentioned and a window to write in what happened. Then an admin, whenever online, can look into this issue.

If suspended, they can *still* see and use their account - with a caveat - their messages will hit a wall, so they dont know they are gone at all. It is like a temporary hellban. But it will be reversed by an admin, and given by a mentor - (we have one around almost all the time)

Reason why I want this to happen: suppose I am a listener. I want to harass someone(ofc not :P) I can send them a message. They block me. I send them message as a guest.they block again, clear cache, reset tcp ip stack, im back, or if I use a VPN god help I will harass everyone everytime

​Technically, implementation is a challenge, but very doable, most sites do this...and as a mature website we must have this in place. What are your thoughts, @GlenM , @ezraBC , @ krinkthemellowunicorn

This post is excellent, thank you for looking for a way to protect us

Though, this part kind of worries me:
2) Added censoring from the Member/Guest side. Note: We have no intention of hindering any member/guest ability to discuss a sexual problem. We will not censor specific words. Instead, we will censor specific phrases in which the context is clearly indicated.

What happens if the member is talking to us about an issue with someone else who was telling those specific phrases to them? I feel like if the censor keeps telling them it's inappropriate they might have a problem actually sharing their story with us, kind of like a barrier, when they had no intention to flirt or sext but are simply explaining what happened with someone else.

@Nina007

I think you bring up a very valid point. That being said, I think that most people are good enough at rephrasing statements that if their first explanation tirggered a censor, they would be able to rephrase in a less sexualized manner that would not trigger the censor. Thoughts?

@RocketsMom I hear you, I know this addition is going to be very helpful for a lot of people, but I just thought it would be pretty frustrating to keep on getting censored for something you aren't even doing (trying to flirt with the listener). I get all that you said and that we can politely explain that they are being censored only because we are trying to protect the users but it's just a thought that I had in mind, because I wouldn't want to get anyone upset. Besides that, I fully support the idea.

@Nina007--I see what you're saying. So, perhaps as this gets going, we should keep a thread of things that are censored which we feel should not be and, if other ideas cannot be generated for those phrases, tweak the censor program as needed?

Thank you very much for addressing this! I believe that 7 Cups is a "Safe Place" for anyone to come, but has become infiltrated with people who have ignoble intentions toward other users. I would like everyone to feel safe and comfortable here as I'm sure anyone else would. Hopefully in the near future we will be able to reduce or completely purge our website of people who have intentions of harming our members through sexting or other inappropriate behavior.

I do have a question about the group support chat rooms: We have a few members/listeners that make female-targeted messages such as "Good night, ladies." or "Where are the ladies?" Should we address this in the chat rooms? If so, how should we go about doing it?

See, this seems okay in principle, but, context is missing in this case. It really depends on the member in question, to be frank.

Usually there are both females and males present in the room and they only address the females and I believe it may make some of the users feel dismissed because of their sex.

under such situations, you can sort of try and intervene and say, to the member who is doing it: "and the guys too, right? and all others?"

@KfindingSpeaceK @hopefultree78

I think this is one of many situations when the moderator has to use their best judgement. And, there are three warnings before a mute. So, if someoone says something that could be viewed as sexually inappropriate or as flirting, the mod can put a warning out. Chances are the person will question it but that's par for the course when moderating a chat room. People will get used to the rules and become more respectful (or figure out how to fight them if they are intent to do so--but that is the same as with all rules in the rooms).

@KfindingSpeaceK I dislike it because I am non-binary, and I feel it makes me invisable and not part of the conversation. If it happened, I would like it if someone else said something so I didn't always have to be making this point, since it gets wearing having to explain why it upsets me every time.

Since becoming a Peer Support and Mentor - I get many messages from newbie listeners who are women, sharing a confusing/upsetting encounter with a troll who wanted sexting in a 1-1 conversation.

It is disheartening -- most of these women have been listeners for less than three days. They have volunteered with lovely generosity to help people in need, and some of them have been subjected to distressing sexual harassment.

Here are some of the things we discuss:

-- We talk about how to tell the difference between a malicious exploitive troll who wants sexual gratification and a sincere member with a genuine issue regarding sexuality.

-- I give them links to forum threads regarding dealing with trolls.

-- With regard to members dealing with genuine issues regarding their sexuality, I let them know about the array of resources at 7 Cups regarding sexuality and gender issues.

-- I explain what to do about trolls (how to block/ban).

-- And we discuss what to do if they are uncomfortable chatting with a member about any issue that arises in a chat, including issues relating to sexuality:

I explain about how to ask for help in the listener chat rooms; how to ask if another listener can take the chat; and, if no one in the chat rooms can help -- how to suggest politely to the member that we lack the ability to help in this area and how to suggest that the member visit Browse Listeners to browse for a listener with expertise in that area). We talk about how to do searches in Browse Listeners, etc., which most of them don't yet know.

-- One thing I always suggest: I tell new female listeners that, during the first few weeks or months of being a listener, they may wish to refrain from taking Personal Chat Requests. It seems that many of the trolls target the newest female listeners because the newest rookies aren't sure what to do -- and will tend to remain in the chat longer.

The trolls often hunt for women who have recently become listeners, because the experienced listeners are more likely to Detect and Eject a troll pretty fast.

So it can be advisable to take chats from the General Request list for a while. There can still be problems, but the specific targeting of newbie women is eliminated.

Thanks for this wonderful insight, Annie. Many listeners might not even have reached out for help and might have just left in disgust... Maybe such a thing should be included in training... Other than that o think that the solution I suggested should address this problem sufficiently

@HopefulTree78, YES! I've wanted to include something in the training. I've wanted to get the word out! I agree that we may be losing some awesome listeners.

I will go to the Suggestion Box and pitch the idea.

I think that some Troll-Defense Training would be great!

Would you be on a team with me to work on this? Anyone else want to help brainstorm on this?

@Annie -- I'm 100% on board with this. I am more than happy to help with it as I find it crucial!! And, I agree that it is most often the newer listeners who are targeted because the people doing the inappropriate chatting know that these listeners are less likely to block them and more likely to take time trying to figure out if they are allowed to block and so forth.

@Annie I agree! That would be a really helpful idea!

Good advice and thanks! I just did my first chat and it was a guy who wanted to chat about women who don't wear bras in public. Like, duh! It was a response to a private request. Won't be doing that again soon! I'll stick to general requests. I wasn't put off, been on this planet too long for that. I blocked him pretty quickly after asking clearly whether he had any issues he'd like to talk about. He kept on talking about nipples. Time waster.

I think this is an incredibly important thing to discuss on 7 Cups, as it also affects people outside of 7 Cups too. My sympathies go to those who have had to deal with this, or still are dealing with this, as you deserve much fairer and kinder treatment.

In my opinion this is demonstrative of a deeply sexist issue permeated among society, which consists of the dichotomy of Knight in Shining Armour, and Damsel in Distress. In this sexist perspective, women cannot possibly be satisfied with their appearance until they're suffocating in compliments, drowning any imminent self-doubt that they'd have. In this sexist perspective, a woman's worth is defined by her appearance, and is the top priority irrelevant of education, occupation, skills, interests, hobbies etc. In this sexist perspective, the Knights in Shining Armour complimenting women on their appearance is a sign of true valiance, bravery and courage, and must be rewarded with a "thank you" and it is the height of dishonour in this sexist perspective to deny the Knight in Shining Armour recognition of this brave complimenting.

What causes this to be such a problem is that there is such a lack of empathy from the person who advances the female on how they might feel, and is an example of purely egocentric thinking. It is an example of possessive behaviour, as the advancer seeks some sort of ownership of the female, as they see the female as seeking compliments from them somehow.

Specifically on 7 Cups though, this causes huge problems such as;
1) Unfairly targeting someone
2) Neglecting others
3) Sending out negative impressions about Listeners
4) Coerces that someone into a response
5) Deviates from constructive discussion
6) Makes people feel the need to show a picture of themselves in order to be noticed
7) Creates apathy towards 7 Cups

@Kane makes an incredibly vital point regarding there being negative reassurance. Many will respond that they were "simply being nice" and this is indicative of that person seeking approval of being nice, sweet etc, which is understandable yet it still remains inappropriate. You can't seek approval or validation at the detriment to the welfare of others, it simply isn't, and with good reason, tolerated.

@Laura I want to thank you so much for writing this, because some people believe that by virtue of being anonymous, they are free to say what they wish, and we must clamp down on that. People here need to feel safe and valued, and not targeted. We're here to help people, and that is our mission, and goal.

Yes I also agree that this does demonstrate a deep underlying sexist issue plaguing society today. It is something that everyone should try to be more mindful of so we can address issues such as looking for validation based on appearance and feeling the need to appear a certain way to meet society's difficult to achieve labels of attractiveness.

This was a great warning post for women to know that they don't need to accept this behavior from trolls. I also wonder if male listener have experienced similar situations?

I would like to thank you for your well-written post, I wish I could upvote this more than once. I do strongly agree with. :)

@Laura

This is a important topic and I'm glad your dealing with it ! Over the last year iv supported a few members who have told me about things related to this ... I hope every listener on 7cups understands how harmful it is to become sexual with anyone the support here on this site 😊

@Lara

Thank you for putting this out and clearing this up for me

Im so glad! I was actually thinking about this whenever the word "babe" would be mentioned because I personally don't like it. Also, it's def going to create some anger since most people get upset and let it known that they are recieving warnings . Maybe this will take care of the issue with people that are exchanging numbers as well because they talk about texting each other.

Thanks so much for the post! I constantly get people trying to flirt or make comments about my profile picture, but I will keep this in mind. Great post, thanks!

@Laura

What if someone is confessing they began a relationship with a listener here at 7 Cups?

That is a huge issue I believe as the relationship listener - member is higly compromised.

I - as a listener - who is listening to a problem related to this confession - what am I to do in this situation? Warn the member and talk with a moderator or ? I believe my position (or any other listener's position when finding out about this) is sensitive as you are somehow pressured by keeping vs breaking the confidentiality.

@cristiana33, thank you for your question, it's a really good issue that you have raised. If a member comes to you to tell you about having entered into a relationship with another listener I would do one of two things:

If the member is upset, needs support, is scared, confused and unsure of what to do I would spend a little time talking to them, reassuring them, validating their feelings and letting them know that a listener should not have put them in such a position and that we are here to help. I would then encourage them to reach out to a community manager by emailing community@7cups.com. A community manager is far better placed to deal with this situation and support them, as well as being able to address the concerns with the relevant listener. Important to note, I wouldnt continue chatting to the member about the issue for very long as its not our job as listeners to provide this type of conflict resolution and only results in triangulation where typically nothing is resolved, so do encourage them to reach out to a CM.

If the member shares with you in your 1-on-1 chat that they have entered into a relationship with another listener but, unlike the above, isnt distressed by it, I would encourage you as a listener to report this by emailing community@7cups.com or I would use this form. I know you mention confidentiality as being key, but I believe that as listeners we have a duty of care here at 7cups to report listener behaviour that goes against the community guidelines, and certainly to report behaviour that could be harmful to members and place them at risk, physically or emotionally.

A listener entering into a relationship with a member is a huge breach of the rules so in both instances I would want the community managers involved, either by giving the member the option to report the behaviour or reporting it myself.

I hope this helps :)

@Soulsurfer: This helps a lot, indeed. Thanks a lot for taking time into responding, I really wanted to know what are my limits as a listener in this conflict resolution.

@Laura - thanks for the post - definitely a very important issue to address and I'm glad that we are. It's been a while since I've done new user training, but is there something in it clearly explaining a) how to block an inappropriate member and b) how to get peer support after it happens? As someone pointed out before, this tends to impact new members disproportionately, so making sure that they feel empowered to deal with the situation and like they have a safe space to process it afterwards is key.

So happy you're addressing such an important issue, as i in the past have had remarks made by people trying to flirt with me which has left me feeling quite uncomfortable.

I am so glad we are addressing this! I cant wait to see were this leads everything! I hope this helps us keep the chats a little safer to say :D

This is wonderful Laura, I'm glad that this problem had been finally acknowledged ! Thank you !

Being a new male listener I am sure I do not get targeted nearly as much however I have had an uncomfortable convo where I had to firmly place boundaries down. If they cannot abide by those boundaries than they should not be talking to you. Reiterating the ZERO TOLERANCE policy 7 cups has is an easy way to excuse yourself from an uncomfortable situation. Trolls suck in general, here, it's borderline criminal. People are donating their time, emotional resources, knowledge and patience. They are the last people who should be targeted.

I wouldn't frame it as oversensitive. there really isn't any need to praise or comment on anyone's appearance here.

My only concern is perception can create double standards Xian.

It's one thing to say that complimenting personal appearances is off limits. It's another to choose the difference between which compliments are flirtatious and which ones are not.

I agree on most cases this is true.

Sometimes we need to be aware on the tone the person is having. We cannot hear them saying the words of course, but we can understand their idea as we are trained in active listening. Sometimes members do comment on our appearance just to make themselves a bit more comfortable as they are addressing an issue regarding this.

I believe we must be very careful to understand when it's the case to take the comments too personally. Or ... am I wrong?

it never hurts to be sensitive to context and nuance and to avoid jumping to conclusions.

it helps us all if we are aware, though, that what we may have been brought up to think of as innocent friendly banted may be "gendered" in certain ways that can make people feel excluded, othered, exposed to attention, or otherwise uncomfortable.

Just to clarify! My post is more for listeners and conversations that are taking place in the listener chatrooms.

I find sexually harassing behavior completely uncalled for. It's not okay for a listener to feel uncomfortable and I'm all for using the ban/block button.

Please just be aware of perceptions and misunderstandings! Sometimes just telling someone that you feel uncomfortable with the current topic is all it takes to change the situation :)

well put

"A girl telling another girl "You're so pretty" doesn't sound any alarms, but a guy saying the exact same thing can. The problem is when we use those intuitive alarm bells to jump to conclusions. I haven't seen this being addressed yet. I was getting a feeling from this thread (and it's starting to get into the chatrooms too) that it's starting to become a oversensitive issue where if a male listener compliments a female listener, that's an automatic report."

I see this as a non-issue.

I think what you're missing is the exploration of context, and intent that each gender stereotypically has. Often in our culture women will use compliments more as a greeting, than a start of conversation, whereas more often than not guys will try to use compliments based on appearance as a stepping ladder.

I've seen this happen many times, not only on 7 Cups but across the internet;

Man: Hey you're so gorgeous!

Woman: Thanks

Man: Can I get your skype/facebook?

Which is very different to:

Woman 1: Hey I love your picture, you look great!

Woman:2: Aww thanks, you too!

Woman 1: Thank you, what did you get up to last Friday?

So, more often than not there is a lesser feeling of security when a male compliments a female there is that feeling of needing to protect yourself from the other's intentions.Therefore I do not see it as a double-standard, nor do I object in any way from there being discouragement of male to female compliments on appearance. I think that women complimenting women is much more innocuous, and it'd be very difficult for people to be void of the culture that they belong to here.

So personally I disagree with deeming it unfair for girls to compliment each other, I don't think it falls under the same category of behaviour. It's purely based on culture, and there is no other intention than to simply be pleasant. There is a level of skepticism towards the same behaviour from males, and that too is simply cultural.

Although we here at 7 Cups have our own culture, and our own society.

Should rules apply to females as much to males in discouraging compliments on appearance? Of course it might sound silly, but based on the principle;

"Listeners should be defined by their listening skills, not their appearance"

Does even female-female compliments based on appearance contribute to this damaging effect?

I'm curious to know how others feel on this actually.