Sexting and flirting at 7 Cups

@Zedda, oh gosh, I think a rant is coming.

I'm glad that this is brought up, because yes, there are many double standards when it comes down to it, and here's a little bit of my understanding as to why. This is where heteronormativity and rape culture come into play, and here's how.

Despite the fact that nearly 10 percent of the population is some kind of gay (studies suggest there could be way more), it's still the norm for everything to be thought of in terms of heteronormativity. This means, that if a woman compliments another woman, it's not thought much of because more chances than not, this woman is not coming on to the other woman, statistically speaking (I've been hit on by females, don't take this as an all-or-nothing stint). When a man comes by and mentions that a woman is pretty, as a woman (my perspective, I'm supposing it's relatively universal but don't take it as completely universal), you have to kind of wonder if there are ulterior motives.

This brings into the account of #notallmen, and I get that, not all men are creepy and have weird ulterior motives, but it is very common for them to. My kindness is taken as flirting, if I put my picture up I get nasty derogatory comments, about how I'm attractive (and not in the "aw hey, you're super cute!" way, it's usually "man, i'd _______ (sexually suggestive comment) that." from members and listeners.

The reason we can't really hold men and women to the same accountability is, as Zedda said, because of the culture, it's about norms, it's about what's accepted as societally appropriate.

Personally, I think people should be able to compliment each other. There are some very attractive listeners here, and there's no problem with saying that, but boundaries are sooooooooooo freaking important. If you're making someone uncomfortable, stop. If someone is making you uncomfortable, tell them to stop, or block. If you're using this as a dating service, stop. If you're objectifying anyone here, whether it's m - f, f - m, any other kind of combination, stop. If you're telling people you want to have sex with them, stop. This is not the place.

Bottom line is, we as a site need to protect people that feel violated, because as of right now, it's something we could definitely improve upon (tons of victim blaming, kind of gross). If a compliment makes you feel great, perfect. If it makes you feel bad, tell them to knock it off. If they persist, block. If somehow it continues, or happens in the chatrooms, email Laura or Heather and let them know what's going on. Saying we can't compliment people isn't really reasonable, but as decent human beings we need to work together and help people who are feeling violated.

****************Just a little side note in regards to members:

Remember that we can take chats about sexual health, and if someone has a problem with something, such as a masturbation addiction, this is not flirting, this is a problem that someone needs to talk through. This is not sexting unless they're saying you're the cause of the masturbation problem, and that they'd like you to be a solution. Bad. Sex chats are not the same as advances, and please, for the love of god, do not ban someone who is wanting to talk about a sexual problem. Below are some forums that relate directly to talking about sex with members. I repeat, chats about sex and chats that have sexual advances are not the same thing.

How to talk about sex.

Listener's Support Guide on sexual conversations.

#FeministRant Just to re-iterate a point I made earlier as the point about culture really needs to be emphasised, as @Cadence has aforementioned.

Here are 3 points I have

In this sexist culture, women cannot possibly be satisfied with their appearance until they're suffocating in compliments, drowning any imminent self-doubt that they'd have.

In this sexist culture, a woman's worth is defined by her appearance, and is the top priority irrelevant of education, occupation, skills, interests, hobbies etc.

In this sexist culture, the Knights in Shining Armour complimenting women on their appearance is a sign of true valiance, bravery and courage, and must be rewarded with a "thank you"

________________

It is simply about gender roles, expectations, and stereotyping based on our own individual experiences.

People don't do it out of malice, but do protect themselves. And so the genuinely pleasant males with no ulterior motive are victim to the harassing males as well as the females who get harassed.

@Kane, @Zedda, and @Cadence thank you so so much for addressing this! I'm super grateful because I think it should be talked about c:

Okay so here's where I'm coming:

"If compliments on appearance is a problem, banning people from talking about appearance should apply to everyone because of fairness."

To be honest I don't want to repeat myself too much, nor make this a circular discussion derailing from the real issue here. I've had many conversations similar to this, so if I come across blasé and a little condescending please forgive me.

Which do you feel is most commonly seen here?

A. Hey, your Mod badge is stunning!

B. Peer supporters are so sexy

C. Wow you're just gorgeous!

D. Your grammar is so attractive mmmm

​

How are genuine and kind compliments most often taken?

A. With grace and acceptance, occasionally with a "but I don't feel that way"

B. BAD PERSON ALERT, BAD PERSON ALERT

I do agree with encouraging people to speak out more, but the responsibility must be on the person who initiates such conversation.

@dx

Ideally, more people would speak up, but the way the power dynamics currently are, it isn't going to work that way. Even if we tell people to confront the individuals using conflict resolution, there's a lot more factors that come into play regarding this specific situation. Group dynamics are incredibly complex, but the listeners who tend to regulars tend to have a greater amount of influence because they are known by a lot more listeners than someone who is newer to the rooms. Listeners with a title (peer support, mentor, mentor leader, etc.) also hold a greater amount of influence. So if anyone that holds a great amount of influence causes someone to feel uncomfortable and negatively responds when it is brought up or does not say a word when they see that someone is uncomfortable, then it leaves the assumption that it is normal for the rooms and that the person who may have a problem with it is in the wrong. Then there's the added anxiety or previous trauma/bad experiences that leave them to remain silent, but that's a different and more complex factor that is hard for us to address.

For the purpose of these hypothetical situations, Listener A is the person speaking up. Listener B is the individual who has upset Listener A. Listener C is the friend of Listener B.

Situation One: Let's say listener A talks with listener C without knowing that C and B are friends. When the concern is brought up, Listener C then provides inappropriate reassurance to Listener A or rebuffs Listener A's concerns to explain away the behavior, which causes A to remain silent about how they feel.

Situation Two: Listener B comes into the room to tell everyone that they were reported or that someone told them that their actions made them feel uncomfortable. Everyone in the rooms then tries to reassure Listener B that they did nothing wrong, it's unfair, etc. even though the listener A is possibly in the rooms and sees the entire conversation.

Situation Three: Listener A talks to Listener B about something they did that made A feel uncomfortable. Listener B then disregards said concern and then tells their friends about what Listener A said to them. Now Listener A is excluded from the group or treated unfairly by listener B and friends.

Situation Four: Listener A sees Listener B and C interacting in the rooms. They're talking to each other with hearts and statements such as "You are so awesome!" Nothing inappropriate about it. But, Listener A then tries to imitate this behavior because they want to be friends with B and C. B and C then thinks of it as weird and uncomfortable, which causes them to isolate or report A because they haven't built up that relationship yet. This is primarily a reason why we have to be very aware of how we impact group dynamics. I curse a ridiculous amount, but only in PMs with specific listeners. I would never do so in the rooms because the boundaries there defined by multiple people whereas in a one-on-one conversation, it's only defined by me and the person I'm talking to.

I've seen all these scenarios happen with listeners who are new to listeners who are very well established and known. Even recently, I've experienced that kind of feeling when I spoke up regarding something. An example is the fact that I had heard WWE jokes and references to my name almost daily since I became active again. When I asked everyone not to do so because it often comes to a point where people respond to my name and not what I say, only a portion of the listeners acknowledged it, which was great! The other half responded with confusion, didn't acknowledge it, or even suggested that it was a sensitive point for me. That kind of response makes it less likely for someone to speak up and doesn't indicate that there is going to be a change in behavior. I am lucky that I know how to handle these situations and PM'd the individuals to talk it out with them, but I had to initiate that kind of conversation. I can't expect other listeners to be able to do that because the initial response did not invite a conversation about it when people were talking for or over me when I was still in the room. I am also lucky that I have a title and am known because that means people are more likely to take me seriously than a new listener as unfortunate as that is.

So that leads to the question of how we can make the rooms more welcoming for people to speak up. The solution? Well, there isn't an easy solution, but if everyone takes greater care in learning how to handle situations when someone talks to us about something we did that might have upset them, then it would foster a much healthier environment. If we are unsure of how it affects someone when they speak up, then we should take the responsibility to contact them and talk about it with them to gain a better understanding.

This is especially important in the chatrooms as it is often harder to speak up in the chatroom than in one-on-one. If just one person, regardless of if they have exhibited the behavior or not, questions or challenges the person who spoke up, it leaves the message that it is unwelcome to all listeners, especially if that one person happens to be popular or well known. I have also seen flippant and passive aggressive comments ("Oh wait, I can't say that or I'll get in trouble", "We can't talk about that or the mentors will stop us, remember?") at random times that adds to this kind of unwelcoming atmosphere.

@dx

Listeners should be given the benefit of the doubt, yes. There are different cultural and societal influences on behavior which makes it difficult to having a community where it's a mesh of all these different factors. Listeners of any sexual orientation and gender can exhibit this kind of behavior with anyone, which is why it's important for everyone to be aware that it's not limited to a specific demographic causing or experiencing the behavior. Often times, if a male listeners provides one compliment, that isn't the problem. Compliments are usually welcome so if someone stops mid-way through a conversation to say "Wow, I like your profile picture! Looks awesome. :)" and then continues on with their conversation, it's usually not flirtatious.

I think what an important thing to remember is about intention vs. perception. Most of the borderline behavior isn't intentional. I can step on someone's toe, but I didn't mean to! I can't tell them "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to. I didn't step on it too hard so it shouldn't hurt." The truth is, I stepped on their toe and hurt them so my responsibility is to apologize and understand that what I did hurt them. The same can be said about borderline flirtatious behavior. We don't mean to be flirtatious, but if we make the other person uncomfortable, then yes, there we should acknowledge that we did indeed hurt them.

Ideally, people would be able to speak up about it, their concerns would be noted, and we would go on our way with a lesson on boundaries. However, inappropriate reassurance comes into play here. Often times, people will say "Well, I didn't have a problem with what you said!" to the individual if they ask about if their behavior can be deemed as flirtatious. Well, okay, we might not have had a problem, but someone felt uncomfortable so who are we to say "It's okay for you to behave like that!" If everyone responds that way, then no one is going to be willing to speak up. There have also been occasions when it has been brought up directly to the listener, and they simply give a non-apology or half-apology with no change in behavior because "it is who they are" or "part of their personality." Then there are other times where it's brought up, and the individual takes it so hard that they turn the issue on themselves. It becomes a "I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to. I'll shut up" situation, which is equally as silencing as non-apologies or half-apologies because it turns into an unintentional guilt trip.

So, no, we shouldn't jump to conclusions regarding compliments or intention, but if someone does speak up, we should all make it our priority to respond in a way that encourages all parties to learn from the behavior and build better relationships.

Well put, @Kane !

@dx, thank you for the thoughtful post. I appreciate the links you provided to other resources.

@dx I really see where you are coming from in this post however the people not reporting and saying in chat that is uncomfortable please do not do that. I feel for some is unrealistic, remembering that we ourselves often have "issues".

I love this forum! My first week I've already had to block 3 people for saying extremely explicit/sexual things in a chat, and its good to know that I'm doing it right!

Oh my gosh please keep doing that! I don't think enough people use the block option when someone is getting out of hand.

Yes! I feel so bad sometimes because I truly want to help everyone, but some people literally are borderline sexually harassing me. Like I wouldn't want anyone at all to talk to me that way. So I'm like you know I tried to help you, but clearly I cannot do that, so I'm going to have to let you go at this time, have a great night. That's all I can really do, then block them. Sometimes it must be done!

I think that posting personal pictures can also attract this sort of behaviour from trolls. We are encouraged to keep our personal identities to ourselves and for me I feel that also means that I will keep from posting exposing personal images from my profile. Not only will that be one step toward avoiding these occurrences but it is a little more professional, in my opinion anyway. We have facebook to post personal profile pictures, here we are about the guests and members that come in search of someone to listen and hear them.

Thank you for this....I have dealt with this in the past and it's very bothersome. :)

People must be blocked if they get inappropriate! Even if they threaten to report you for false things.

Thank you for this post @Laura..sorry I'm a bit late but I read through it and thank you for taking your time to write this because it needed to be put out there :) ❤

Great !!!!

Since a lot has been discussed already, I will just talk about judgment here. Starting off with a compliment is not necessarily bad. I would give the chat some more time to unfold and see where it is headed to. Every chat is different, every member/guest is different. So unfortunately, no rules can be placed regarding this. The only rule is based on individual judgment - when uncomfortable, tell the other person politely. If he/she doesn't listen, block.
We are here at 7 Cups to help those in need. People interested in flirting or sexting form a very very minute % of the user base. It will be sad if listeners leave the opportunity to help thousands due to a couple of miscreants. I would just emphasize on judgment here and also on faith - faith in 7 Cups mission and us as listeners that we are here to do so much good that some little impediments don't even matter :)

This is really helpful. Thanks everyone!

Another excellent and informative post!
I loved reading through everyone's comments, experiences and suggestions.
It is encouraging to hear that for the most part, people are feeling safe and supported at 7cups, and if they ever are not feeling this way, they are doing some really positive things to care for themselves and to protect others in the community!
What a fantastic community of people we have here!
There will always be people who act inappropriately in this setting, but I love that the majority of people here are safe and amazing and are willing to support their fellow 7cupians if they feel uncomfortable in anyway!
You're all amazing, you all deserve to feel safe and cared for, and I love being a part of this community!

Question: i've just had a member tell me that they are considering a relationship with a listener, and that this particular listener gave their private email, phone number, and snapchat to this member. Is this something that is a total NO NO? Because that's what i would have thought..... or is it up to the discretion of the listener?!

Hi there @IzzieBelle it's an absolute no no, although I can understand you questioning it since someone admitted it

Thanks for starting a conversation on this IMPORTANT aspect of 7 cups Laura!!! It means a lot!!

I will never intentionally flirt or sext with another member, guest, or listener. However, I am open to listening to explicit sexual talk with members/guests for the purpose of healing sexual problems, especially when it comes to a questioning gay or bisexual man wanting to explore his sexuality and fantasies more and needing a safe place to do it. I will also bring up fantasies of mine if the member wants that, but it not for the purpose of forming a relationship or wanting to have sex with the member. Rather, it is so the member can find something to relate to in another person. To know that he/she is not alone in the thoughts they are experiencing.

That makes sense. It is okay to talk a member through a sexual problem, fear or situation they need support on.

Thanks for your post :)

@Laura

Hi just on the back of your post, I agree that for the reason of healing it it may be necessary to listen to someone's sexual experience/fantasy s, however I would advise you to be extremely careful about discussions of your own desires/fantasies, as this could cause a person to be more confused about their sexual identity. I would say it would be better to reflect about what they have said, as this would give more clarity around their feels and desires. Even in the event a member/guest were to ask you personally. I only say this as other listeners in the community may not be as open or comfortable discussing such content. So if the member has had this kind of discussion before, they may expect other listeners to respond in the same fashion.

Always25

@BrambleLarsonFrisch Sounds very official. I think you covered every point :)

@EmpathyAeauria

@EmpathyAeauria I agree, I am happy to help others discover their sexuality, and help with any problems , but always in a professional manner not for my own pleasure ,

Hey Laura, thanks so much for bringing up this topic! Recently, I have encountered several people who tried to engage in flirting and inappropriate conversation with me. Thank you for the advice; this is a wonderful resource for listeners who have encountered this topic or listeners who will be better prepared in case this happens to them. :)

@lovelyWhisper66 You are not the only one who has experienced this. 2 out of my first 10 convirsations on this site has been people looking for flirting. I tend to just tell them this is not a dating site, but if they need support of another kind I am all ears. That has stopped both the people I've been struggeling with this far.

I have had a few people go down the line of conversation bringing up sexual fantasies with me. Two of which were with family members, 1 with the mother and another with the sister. Both people tried to engage me in talk about my own fantasies and I can honestly say that I did not feel comfortable being open about my own intimate thoughts as I did not feel that it would be beneficial to the other parties and it seemed to me that it was unethical.

My personal stand point in this regard is that self-disclosure should be used carefully and ONLY if it will help, otherwise it could come across with a very different meaning or intent especially in scenarios with sexual content.

I recognise that there are most likely many Listeners who have some sort of training in Counselling or Psychology or undergoing training in these areas but I'm sure there may be some that have not and may be well inexperienced to handle this kind of situation and, ultimately, could end up doing more harm to the person involved.

At the end of the day, the main objective of ALL listeners is to Listen and aid the member or guest in working through things themselves. If a Listener feels they are not adequately experienced then they should refer the member/guest onto another Listener that is.

Working with people on this level is highly sensitive and if not handled with compassion and kindness things can go very wrong without anyone on 7 Cups ever knowing.

@Tattyfae This is what I did today. I'm new to listening and had a conversation where someone was asking me about my own intimate experiences. I didn't feel comfortable discussing that and said that perhaps they might wish to speak to someone else and they kept trying to drag me into the conversation. He said that I should be more open and that the thing he was asking me about was not bad. I said a few times that im not being judgmental, i just didn't feel comfortable with the direct questions but he continued to try and reel me back in, and i had to block him. Quite upsetting first conversation to have on here.

I dont' agree with discussing my own personal sex life, my intimacy or my sexual fantasies and desires. I don't see how that would help someone. If I went to talk to a mate of mine or a therapist, i wouldn't ask those questions and if I had, I wouldn't expect them to answer. They are there to listen and support, not give you details about their personal lives - well .. especially not the therapist anyway

Aaarrggh im getting tired of members messaging me just to be inappropriate and say rude sexual stuff. Im starting to lose my patience with these kind of members. Im sorry to say these kind of things but i just wish i could find a way to get rid of them and make them stop from messaging me. It really affects my way of communication with other members who dont have that kind of intent. 😔

@withyou08

i agree and can

I've been completely open to talking to members regarding their sexual issues, regardless of sexuality. I've kept these chats strictly abstract and made conscious efforts not to break the community guidelines, but recently I was suspended because my account was censored because of some things I mentioned eg. s-e-x is considered an attempt at inappropriate chats. I thought that 7cups was a place where people received support and helped members, but the whole ordeal caused me considerable stress and anxiety. It wasn't so much about not being able to be a listener, but being unable to contact my regulars who I have promised not to leave, and I see that now the only way moving forward and giving me security that I will not be wrongfully suspended again would be to completely block or avoid members with sexual issues. I understand the whole sexting and flirting rule, but I don't understand chats being censored without context, furthermore being suspended.

I have notice on two/three occasions members/guests tried this with me but i discontinue to converastion saying i am unaable to help them because I here to help others who need someone to listener and not here to flirt nor childs play. :/

It has been the same with me. At least one out of every five member I meet wants to talk about their sexual fantasies. At first, I used to discontinue the chat but then I decided to listen as to what they have to say, without disclosing about my own thoughts but then they ended up sending me sending explicit contents through links and I had to block them. That's why, I refuse to engage in such conversation anymore, this only leads to breaking the community guidelines.

And when you block them you eventually have your account ‘unapprooved