GC Message Reload Update
Tonight some others (@ALeXaNdEr0712 , @Axtyn , @mysteriousClover) and myself had a long discussion on the update that allows you to reload previous messages in the group chats, with seemingly no limit to how far you can go back. I personally got back to Dec. 19 before giving up on trying to find and end to it. There is a lot of concerns that have been expressed by myself and by others. Some of these concerns are:
1. Lack of privacy/confidentiality- A lot of us display different levels of vulnerability depending on who is in the room at the time. As imperfect as it is, some of us have bad relationships and/or don't trust certain people on cups and do not want them to know everything about us. But with this update anyone can go back and see whatever you said at any day/time which removes the privacy and confidentiality in group chats.
2. Not feeling safe sharing in group chats anymore- As stated above, anyone at any time can see what you said no matter how long ago. A lot of us have really vulnerable and emotional moments in the group chats and now those moments are essentially permanently on display for everyone to see. It makes a lot of us feel unsafe about sharing in group chats.
3. Anyone being able to go back and access your previous links at any time- A lot of us send pictures whether it be of ourselves, art we've created, memes, objects we have/want. Those links are now always going to be accessible to anyone. I know that for myself personally, a lot of my artwork is very personal to me but there is a small group of trusted individuals within group chats who I'm comfortable sharing the artwork with. But now I cannot share it with even them, because anyone can reload the old messages, click on the link and see it.
4. Past triggering messages and conflicts never going away- With being able to reload old messages with no limit on how far back you can go, people will be able to go back to old conflicts which could re-spark the conflict if they see it and are upset by what was said. It makes moving on from conflict even harder and now it will never completely go away. Same for triggering messages, the wont go away which could cause a lot more people to become triggered in the group chats.
5. Trolling and harassment- There's always going to be trolls and harassment to some degree online. That's unavoidable. But the issue seems to be a lot more severe lately. And now trolls will be able to go back and see old conversations and better target other users. It also makes harassment much easier because there will always be access to things people have said.
Those are just a few concerns that come to mind immediately. I'm sure other people could think of other concerns as well too, though. I and many others simply do not find this update to be one that is comforting, safe or helpful. It instead is stress and anxiety inducing and causing a lot of us to feel like we cannot open up and receive support within the group chats anymore. I can't really find any reason for this to be more of a good idea than a bad idea. I'm sure the intentions behind it were good but the negative impact truly seems to be outweighing the positive intentions.
Tagging- @ASilentObserver , @Heather225 , @GlenM
Hey everyone. The admin team is in communication with the dev team right now and is looking into this matter for all of you. We are doing our best to take safety seriously and want you to know that we are actively working to ensure the safest environment possible. We understand that safety is a major concern for everyone, and appreciate your trust and patience in us to rectify this as soon as possible. A further explanation will be given soon to you all.
@CheeryMango I just checked a room on the adult side, and you can look back at old messages, so I hope that the dev team can fix this issue on the adult side as well.
It was Affy that made me aware of this on the adult side, and thanks for that Affy.
@calmMango9611
the issue is not fixed on either side yet, it probably won’t be for a few days
@CheeryMango
thank you for the update💜 it means a lot to stay in the loop and be listened to, I hope this can get revolved quickly so many of us can get back to using rooms the same way again💜
@CheeryMango Thank you for the update.
@CheeryMango
thanks for letting us know
@CheeryMango I wanted to thank you and your team, for the quick action, to fix this issue.
Not sure if you're aware of this, but Heather225, has made a post, about the glitch.
Here is the link to the post: https://www.7cups.com/forum/SiteUpdatesInformationFortheCommunity_100/Siteupdatesandchanges_2007/HeadsupontheReloadMessagesfunction_295214/
Thank you all for doing this. I messaged an admin but it's really good to see I'm not alone:3
@Jefferythebunny319 This is 7cups, and at 7cups, you're never alone.
i agree. like this whole new update thing makes me not want to open up yk bc then when i want to say something in THAT moment i cant bc ik that trolls and other ppl can go back and see so i dont anymore. me personally i dont have a good experience with people in general so yeah i have trust issues so this update kinda just makes me wanna isolate myself away from people bc im scared actually say sum bc then the whole world can see instead of it disappearing and moving on yk? so yeah if that went away...
A few members and I recently had a conversation regarding this gc message reload update, and we raised the following issues/ideas:
- There should be more consistent alerts about these types of site updates, as well as an open polling and discussion about how everyone in the community feels about said updates, and whether there should be any tweaks or reconsiderations about any more "controversial" updates.
- With regard to site updates, there should be more apparent notifications on the page, whether as a banner on the dashboard or the top menu bar.
- In the past, there have been issues with past messages disappearing when the chat reloaded, which has made it challenging for members and listeners to take appropriate screenshots necessary to submit reports. If there was to be a way to load past chat history, maybe it can go back around 10 minutes maximum.
- It would be great if there can regular sessions in SilentObserver's office, just as there used to be. These discussions can purely be designed to share feedback regarding updates such as these.
- There should be a designated site issue complaint forum that is easily accessible from the dashboard, either as an icon or banner. This type of forum should be regularly monitored and easily accessible to all users as a method of directly sharing feedback with admins. Additionally, a link to the forum should be added to the group chatroom rules, along with the links to other important resources and forms, so that participants can add any issues at an as-needed basis.
@selflessSpruce1515
I wholeheartedly agree with this.
Instead of making changes that aren't necessary such as the reloading messages, or ones that could harm the community, the ideas Spruce has suggested, offer so much more value in having a good community, and allows us to give our imput. Members and listeners should have just as much imput as admins, mods, and devs. We are the ones who have to deal with these hard changes most. It is unfair to let our voices be unheard.
There was actually one more idea that I have forgotten to mention:
6. To aid with addressing conflicts and being aware of any situations that occur in the group chats, it would be great if the community moderators (and only the community moderators) can see the chat history of the past hour or so, since 10 minutes may not be enough to fully grasp the background of certain chat conversations if said message reload update tweak was put into place.
I am not sure what. To think about load message button on top of the chat. I have trusting issues and it hard for me to open to new people. I am not sure if I am comfortable just random people seeing what wrote in sharing circle other than people I know from sc.
if I think of any thing to say about this. Will Post again.
@Hopeandjoy12
Those are completely valid concerns, and I am really hoping that this issue can be addressed for the reasons you mentioned.
And yes, feel free to post again if you have anything else to say! We'd love to hear your input ❤️
@Mack
I can understand the concerns many ppl have here. But, for ppl with severe memory and cognitive issues - myself included - this was about the best update I've come across here. Cause I do need to take notes to keep up with long discussions, knowing things will make no sense if I don't. Mainly cause the site does want to reload time to time, and it's all lost. Having the chance to go back through the messages was about the only good update I've come across in a good while, cause it makes conversations easier with these problems.
Like said, I can understand the concerns when it comes to privacy and all. But there's always two sides of the coin, and I figured I might as well offer the other one to the conversation too.
@OneErased
that is extremely understandable as well, I think more over it’s a issue with a forever log back up. In our my discussion with some others we brought up the idea of a 10 minute re load, as spruce said a little earlier in the forum. This adjustment would allow for the site randomly reloading to not be that great of a issue knowing that within 10 minutes we most likely would not need to go up further.
As someone that benefits from this update what are you ideas on the 10 minute reload?
@Astraeuss
That wouldn't be a bad idea at all, tho 10 minutes wouldn't really help that much. If there's an hour long conversation, it would still be just as confusing if you only had that 10 minutes and not when the conversation started. I'd definitely not be against the notion of having the messages there for a particular amount of time, they don't have to be forever. But when it comes to the actual time, that would have to be discussed.
@OneErased
if I must be honest I don’t often see hour discussions on the same thing, a hour time frame brings many privacy issues, as mack said below it has been very possible for things to be worked around for a long time without this, and while it can be more convenient I think the safety of others can come way over convenience. I know myself have had many experiences with very unsafe people. And to know even a hour later things would still be there is incredibly unsafe. As you say now you take down notes, which would still be possible with the 10 minutes as it would give time, as well if it is a hour conversation it would not be possible or take a good 5-10 minutes to scroll up that long anyway. So in all practically to compromise with both safety and comfortablity of the community as a hole along with the function of memory I think 10 minutes would be the best compromise for all as it still allows cups to function as normal while still giving a extra thing for those with such issues.
@Astraeusa
@OneErased
I don’t see a “time” working. Maybe instead of showing the last 30 messages like it used to, maybe 50? But not all of the previous messages ever sent. Safety for all is more important than things being made easier for some. Privacy is more important than convenience. I don’t mean this in a rude way, but it’s not fair everyone has to feel uncomfortable and unsafe just because a handful of people want a bit of convenience. Plus I never heard anyone complain about not being able to see enough messages before.
@OneErased
I want to note that I don’t sugar coat things and none of this is meant as any disrespect or anything like that.
I’m sorry it’s hard for you to keep up with chats and remember things, I struggle with that at times too. But ultimately a persons safety and privacy is more important than someone being able to see previous conversations and messages. I don’t know what it’s like on adult side but on teen side we have been having a lot of stalking, harassment and trolling issues, along with bullying. Yeah, maybe it’s nice I can refresh my memory by reading up but it’s not fair that all of us now feel unsafe and uncomfortable sharing in what’s supposed to be a “safe space” because of this update.
I truly do sympathize with struggling to keep up and remember but just the other night I said a lot of very personal things while in a very vulnerable headspace- I said those things because the room had myself and a couple very trusted friends present. But then I remembered that the messages I was sending were never going to go away and anyone could see them at any time and I instantly shut down and started to panic because I didn’t know what to do but I knew I was uncomfortable and scared about the idea of just anyone seeing what I was talking about and I had to ask the com mod on shift to delete all of the several messages. Which they did, but it’s not fair to me that I had to have that anxiety and that I had to discontinue receiving support I really needed because of this update- and I know I’m not the only who who has had this issue. Many of us are just refusing to get support altogether.
So while yes, there are two sides to every coin, in this situation one seems to be a bit more relevant and important (for lack of better words).
@Mack
I won't sugarcoat things either, since I know I'm talking for a minority that doesn't get much voice here anymore.
I can understand your anxiety, because I feel it here every day, knowing the messages will be deleted. Knowing I'd have to keep a physical written record of ppl and what they say in order to get to know anyone here. I refuse to do that without permission. And I've met many ppl here in a similar situation. So, being anxious to chat is unfair, yes, equally to everyone. The troll problem should be dealt with as a whole on it's own, and that's a whole different ballgame.
Like I said, there's always two sides to a coin. All I'm saying is, I don't think it's a good idea to choose just one side of the coin, but to discuss for a beneficial compromise to all included with this update.
@OneErased
I listened to your side, I empathized with your side and validated it as sometimes I struggle with remembering and keeping up too. But as you said, you don’t keep notes without the consent of the other person. What this update is doing is basically keeping notes on everything everyone says with zero consent. The group chats are supposed to be a “safe place” to seek support. This is making them unsafe. Once again, it’s safety and privacy over convenience.
@OneErased
as I’ve been saying we are nit at all picking one dude if the coin, we are trying to find a solution to both, such as 10 minutes which should help and a bit while also keeping the rooms safe for the majority, because as said safety, protection, and majority availability to get support comes over convince in lack of better terms, yet we are still trying to find ways to let it both work. Such as I explained
@OneErased
bro this is for the community at cups- not for a personal benefit. it is more about safety than convenience.
@OneErased
Honestly i was really trying to hear your side, but i dont.
It honestly is affecting a large part of the community, and imo majority should take the win. I understand we need to make it inclusive to all, but jst because one person has an issue with it- or even likes it in this case- doesnt mean we need to make the rest of the community uncomfortable. Theres no "2 sides" theres literally one, it makes people uncomfortable and its unsafe period.
The long discussions point also makes zero sense, its unfortunate to hear that you deal with memory issues, but like are you really going to scroll up for an hour of conversation? Like it seems you taking notes about people is solving your issue- but what about our issue??? im sorry but i dont believe that it needs to include any other side
majority should always win
I'm sorry I brought up anything, like the disabled side of this site exists to begin with. I'll withdraw from the convo cause I'm clearly at the wrong here, pointing at the things ppl don't wanna hear.
All the best to you all, whatever happens to this place.
@OneErased
its nit that no one wants to hear, what’s frustrating is that with us understanding and even bringing up other options it seems we are not being listened to and also being told we aren’t seeing both sides, which isn’t true. And I think that’s what’s making people frustrated. As we have listened and even brought up more things to your point.
@OneErased
I’m sorry you feel that way. But ultimately a lot of us have disabilities that aren’t catered to that you aren’t aware of, maybe that nobody is aware of. I hear your side, I understand your side. That’s why I said maybe something like the last 50 messages instead of the last 30 messages staying visible.
It isn’t about you being wrong. I think that it is that we all feel uncomfortable and unsafe in a place where we spend a lot of time, in a place we used to utilize very frequently. And that the safety/privacy issues are a bit higher ranking in terms of what needs to be prioritized. I hope you have a good night and I wish you the best, take care.
@OneErased I think you do bring up a good reason of how this can be helpful, there are definitely pros and cons to the change. I think this can also be helpful with moderating group chats. Overall, my biggest concern is being informed. If people were informed beforehand, they are able to choose what they are comfortable with sharing. That didn't happen.
The same is true for 1-1s, someone might have deleted the chat if they knew it was possible to go back to the start and not just the last however many messages. At least it's still possible to delete now, but the lack of information did mean some listeners may have been able to review a chat that a member didn't intend to be reviewed.
@AffyAvo
while asking one of the kids they brought up the idea of modding and why this update might be important, but for that factor why don’t mods only get the ability to go back up by 15-20 minutes. that would solve a issue and not feel unsafe the members.
@Astraeuss
mods not kids. sorry for spelling
@AffyAvo
I agree with you 100% on being informed, but in many ways I've already given up on that happening on this site. I don't do well with changes, disabilities and all, so I've been jarred by a lot of the updates. This happened to be the rare one that would actually help me, so I'm sad they didn't do that all the more.
@OneErased
Updating you that the glitch is being fixed, as H put. Over all I think that really does make most sense to the chat room and as someone who is enjoying this glitch I jsut wanted to give you a heads up and time to adjust (:
@Astraeuss
I noticed it. And I'm not against it if that's what the majority wants. I never was. I understand the anxiety. I understand the safety issues. What I said was in no way trying to invalidate that.
All I wanted to do was to share my point of view on this. That there are some ppl who do benefit from it. That's all I wanted to do. But while ppl keep bringing up safety, I lost all the feelings of safety posting in the forums, taken the comments I got just for wanting to share my point of view. On a site where it should be encouraged.
I do appreciate you letting me know, thank you for that. Like I said, I have removed myself from this conversation cause I don't feel safe sharing here. So I'd like to keep it that way.
I sincerely hope you all enjoy your time here, and I wish you all all the best in life.
I do feel for anyone who found the history to allow them to participate more fully.
I was instructed by my dear friend Alex to post my genuine thoughts on the update. My exact words were
"I feel as if I an standing ontop of the empire state building surrounded by Glass completely naked, and everyone's cameras are pointed at me"
I was being a tad dramatic but still. I feel very violated and exposed and at this point I'm just *** and I can't even share anything in my one safe space.
@MackYou are 1000000% right about everything you have said. This needs to be fixed. All this will do is cause problems. FIX IT 7 CUPS NOWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
I would see nothing wrong with this update providing it would only apply to private chats. In all honesty it doesn't make much sense when it comes to the chat rooms, except maybe with discussions. I think that maybe that's what @OneErased is referring to, the private chats, where chats do sometimes last an hour or more, while the others here are focused on the rooms?
To me it makes more sense to have this capability in a 1-1 chat. There's a good chance that we talk with the same listener more than once and maybe that listener gives us information on, let's say anxiety and it helps but later on you would like to see and read that information again only to find that it's gone because you chatted about other things after that information was given. Or perhaps they said something truly inspiring and you'd like to read it again
The chat rooms are a little different as many of them are always open. On the adult side there are the same issues with harassment and trolling. Arguments and disagreements between people can and do go from one room to another. I just witnessed this last week. Even if the argument were to "disappear" into the great unknown chances are someone has a screen shot of it
We were once told here that there would be better communication and transparency when it came to updates and it starts out that way but never stays consistent. There have been so many new changes here and as far as I know there was no discussion or warning about any of them. Or if there is communication the changes are often put in place shortly afterwards. There's no time to adjust
@mytwistedsoul
in reply to your comment i should just state that the reload has been available in 1-1 chats for quite some time now. I agree in 1-1 it makes perfect sense, and also saving for a discussion may not be a bad idea.
@Jefferythebunny319 Oh I wasn't aware of that. Shows how observant I've been! Thank you! :)
@mytwistedsoul Same here!
@mytwistedsoul
I totally agree to this. Although when we are discussing this update it does not include the 1-1 chats being saved as that was an older update.
You mentioned conflict is likely to be screen shot which is very true, i myself have some. But that is in an act of doing wrong that needs to keep the community safe. not keeping things that let people be vulnerable and victimized. Overall there is no need for a reload as i can often times just scroll up to get anything i was missing. While the site does sometimes randomly reload i don’t find it an issue that happens often enough that it is an issue. it’s a minor inconvenience i need to deal with.
Thank you for putting in your thoughts as i think this helps sum up a lot of points that did not come across well
@mytwistedsoul
Hey hey, Soul! Good to see you contributing here ❤️
You definitely summarized all of the points wonderfully, and I agree that the reloading update would be more appropriate for 1-1 chats, as it can help the member and listener alike to stay on top of the topics that were discussed in the past, and also aid the listener specifically in being able to check in on a member if they were struggling with a specific issue. On the other hand, in group chats, there are way too many variables to keep in mind, and having our information and shares lingering from weeks and even months ago exposes us to privacy/safety concerns.
I also agree with the lack of transparency with regard to these updates. Many of us depend on this site as a medium for support and comfort, and if there is a loss of trust with admins and devs, then there's essentially no sense of community.
@selflessSpruce1515 I thought it odd last week when the Trauma chat room was opened - that the prior chat was still there from before. *I host a DID chat there on Wednesdays right now 😬* The mod and I chalked it up to the room not being closed for long enough. I don't think either of us was aware of the change at the time. So I do genuinely understand the need for safety and security in the rooms and that no one should have the things they say there used against them in anyway. I'm sorry you're all dealing with that
@mytwistedsoul
It’s especially concerning that you witnessed this in Trauma Support, since that’s when a lot of members open up about sensitive times in their lives, and may not be so open about sharing it with *everyone*, especially beyond the bounds of the discussion. I really appreciate how understanding you are about the situation, and I hope that this can be resolved on both the teen and adult sides. ❤️
@mytwistedsoul
I managed to miss this reply 😀 I agree with you 100%. Conflicts always tend to spread across rooms. Something that really upset me is a few nights ago a member who was upset with me went into a different room, was talking bad about me and making things up while using my username. I wasn’t even active in that room at the time and didn’t see it til 10-15 minutes later. The com mod on shift did not do anything about it, not even delete the comment revealing my username. If I were to reload the old messages it would still be there now. Anyone can see it. People who are new, who don’t know me could see it, read all the comments of how awful I am that were made by a member simply because they disliked a rule I reminded of, and from that point just assume I’m some awful person. I’ve already been harassed by things and by people when I’ve had no idea who they are- just the other night while I wasn’t even online a listener came into a room and started calling me swears and names. A listener I’ve never even met before. I entered the room and read up and that’s what I saw. That’s also never going away because the com mod once again did nothing. Everyone can see it. This update is making bullying and harassment so much easier. I don’t even feel safe existing within the group chats at this point. Even when I’m not sharing and being vulnerable.
@Mack That's not right at all. I try not to dis the mods too much but it bothers me when they let things like that stand with no sticking to the rules. Because I thought that we weren't supposed call anyone out by name. And I thought everything was supposed to be kept supportive. I know it's frowned on in the forums - I guess I figured it was the same in the rooms too. While I haven't seen anything like that in the adult rooms - I have seen some rather intimate chats that the mods let continue because - there wasn't an active discussion going on at the time
It sounds as though the harassment and stalking are much worse on the teen side. For a listener to come into a chat room and abuse someone like that and not have a mod remove the comments *smh* that's horrible and you shouldn't have to deal with that at all. Being a teen is hard enough without being bullied in what's supposed to be a safe space
@mytwistedsoul
The bullying and harassment issue is bad on teen side. It is one of our main concerns with this update. It’s one of the reasons we are so upset by it. And I suppose it just upsets me to see others talking like we are wrong for disliking it because it makes life a little easier for others- meanwhile it’s making life a lot more scary and unsafe for the rest of us. The two situations I just described are nothing compared to some of the other things that have and continue to happen. And my reply was in no way an attempt to dis any mods- just to make a point.
@mytwistedsoul I do see where @OneErased is coming from in group chats. I have had just as good discussion or support in a group chat as I have had in a 1-1. If making notes from a meeting or discussion that can also be helpful, and being able to look over a discussion has benefits for some people too.
There has been some talk about a block feature, without specifics of how it will work or when it's being implemented (I expected that a while ago).
I would have thought something like that would have come in first. If it's a true block and not just a mute that could reduce some (not all) of the safety concerns.
I wasn't against the group chat history when it was a planned change, although certain do understand the arguments against it. It would be nice if this could have been tested (with informing people) in certain rooms first. Huddle rooms come to mind.
@AffyAvo I can see One's side too tbh. I'm kind of conflicted because I can see both sides. I can see the benefits and how it would be helpful. Even to myself at times. At the same time I can understand the concerns about everything being accessible to the wrong people and the lack of safety people will feel. Tbh - I've never muted anyone and I'm not completely sure how a hard block works. I'd love for them to find a solution that can give everyone what they need and want in the chat rooms
It was quite a while ago when they sent out that post about people who dissociate should stay away from the chat rooms - you probably remember. We fought hard to get this chat. For 1 hour a week we have a safe space to talk about things we deal with. Now after giving this alot of thought I'm concerned that some members will feel too uncomfortable to share if they know that what they share stays there for others to read the next time the room is opened
@mytwistedsoul
i honestly think that’s a very valid concern. I know already that people feel they can’t share even in sessions knowing it will be saved. And it’s scary to know your vulnerabilities can be shared to anyone or even other people you aren’t comfortable with and know are there. Such as a next session, honestly if there was a way for bight to work that would be great but form what I’ve seen so far I don’t really know how that would work :/
@Astraeuss Missed your message earlier - sorry about that. It can be scary you're right about that. Especially if we've been vulnerable before and it was used against us. Tbh going into a room that's only open certain times and seeing the prior chat felt like I was eavesdropping
I figured I'd reply to your recent message here too since we've lost the reply button *another bad thing imo* I can see your point - allmost everyone would hit that delete messages button making the whole chat and the purpose of keeping it for later reference pointless
@mytwistedsoul
its alright! And yes more or less, honestly leaving chats feels like a invasion of privacy to me. Especially in vulnerable places or rooms.
@mytwistedsoul It is a glitch please click this link, to read about, it is from our community director/head of community Heather225
I hope this helps.
@calmMango9611 Thank You for the link Mango :) I'm glad they're working on it
@mytwistedsoul Yeah, I do see how that is different with rooms that are popup. Someone can easily see something from a while ago vs a lot of reloading if it's 24/7.
The old messages sticking around has happened for quite some time with the popups, I recall that occurring with meetings a lot. The difference was though it used to be the last handful, not reloading an entire discussion.
Maybe a delete my messages option could be enabled if the chat history is staying?
@AffyAvo
I think the reason we aren’t given smth where we can delete our own messages is because it would make it all too easy for someone to say something awful to someone and then delete their message before a mod has a chance to intervene. As much as I would love the option to delete my own messages I don’t think we would ever be given a setting like that
@AffyAvo I have to admit I got alittle excited with the concept of a delete my messages button but then I read @Mack reply and realized that @Mack is right in that people could use it for the wrong reasons but it has alot of appeal
I wonder if when you leave a chat room if it could be a pop up option? *You've finished your chat would you like to delete your messages?* type thing? Idk
@mytwistedsoul Or give moderators access to a log including deleted messages. I do thing there should also be a lag to the deletion so it doesn't cause confusion with the live chat.
Currently, we allow for the choice to delete messages in 1-1s (self) and forums (by request) but not group chats.
@mytwistedsoul
@AffyAvo
Usually if you ask a mod to delete your message they will. But when you’re asking them to delete ALL of your messages it would get really tricky and disruptive. Everyone is trying to come up with all of these ideas that in theory are good ones, but in cups reality impose more safety threats. The easiest solution to all of this would be remove this update.
I understand it’s a good thing a very small percentage of cups but it’s more harmful overall. Like I’ve said, safety over convenience. And these ideas end up just being more convenience.
(I hope this didn’t sound rude or agressive- it isn’t my intent)
@mytwistedsoul
i feel like even that would be abused unfortunately, although when it comes down to both sides working effectively with each other I know on teen side at the least almost all messages would be deleted. Leaving the point of the messages still being there unless.
@Mack
No problem with how you are expressing your opinion! It sounds like the nature of a room might dictate a bit of how beneficial this change is. Generally, I wish this place was safer. A zero tolerance policy was made initially for the group rooms but I never really saw anything that I would call zero tolerance being used.
A little odd, when a change was announced years ago I don't recall people being concerned about the rooms, it was 1-1s. Maybe that's just my memory.
@AffyAvo
I honestly don’t remember any announcement of changes in rooms related to this. If i would have seen them I would have given my two cents then. I just know this update is leaving me and many others without the support we need because it no longer feels safe to seek it in the group chats and it’s extremely difficult (at least for me) to find a listener that not only is comfortable taking my chat topics but can handle my meltdowns and me trying to push them away and not take it personally when I split. I’ve gone through so many listeners that it feels hopeless how and the group chats were the only space I felt even semi comfortable sharing.
So... I've followed this discussion for a while, and seeing how a minority is being invalidated just because they're a minority, that their point of view doesn't need to get considered just because they are not like everyone else here... I tried to stay out of this but this kind of injustice is something I can't just ignore.
And there I thought 7cups was a place where it's ok to be different, it's ok to have special needs... that 7cups would be inclusive and welcoming towards ppl with disabilities no one else can understand... that there's a general sense of understanding here for what it's like to feel like an alien that doesn't ever belong anywhere. I did believe such ppl would get acknowledged here. I did believe the majority would be more open to try and find out what the minority's world looks like.
Yes it sucks when there is just one person stating they don't have a working memory and they can only get along here if there's some kind of option to read back to messages. It sucks when there's only one who has opposing needs to everyone else. And it's pointless cause it's clear their needs can't be met cause no one else shares those needs. But I did expect that you'd say their anxiety is as valid as yours.
Like, you enter this website and each time you come here you can't remember any of the ppl or threads, you can't remember who you ever chatted with, you have no recollection of anything you did here ever since you created your account, you can't remember a single one of the discussions that ever happened on this site, you can't remember which of them you joined, you can't remember what they were about. You can't remember a single conversation you ever had here. This whole place is a giant information overload and overwhelming chaos. All you have are your notes, the stuff you wrote down like a letter to your future self. That's the only thing that gives you a tiny bit of orientation. Or maybe a certain button to reload older messages. Cause you can't think back to anything, the past is completely deleted, and your memory is a blank space. I dunno how scary that state is either but at least I'm trying to imagine.
And it takes me about 10 seconds to realize that reading back to the last 10 minutes of a convo is not even a drop in the ocean when you can't remember a single thing of anything you did here. Reading back to 10 minutes is maybe like 1% of the amount of stuff normal ppl can remember just by using their brain and thinking back. But what if you don't have that part of your brain? So 10 minutes is just not helping.
So they can only state it's not helping cause that's how it is, that's their reality. And what do they get for it? Invalidation, everyone's getting mad, everyone's going against them because they dare to describe their point of view although they're just a minority. Awesome.
Sometimes you just wanna be heard and validated. You're not being a minority to upset anyone. You're basically used to the fact that no one ever understands you, you're used to the fact that no one would ever adjust to your needs because you have no right for that, you need to adjust to the majority and whatever they need. Whenever you're trying for someone to understand you the reaction is "bro this is for the community at cups- not for a personal benefit".... your personal benefits don't matter, you need to shut up and adjust to the community. That's how life works for someone with an unusual disability. And it's not fair. Everyone should have a right to express their personal needs, a right to be acknowledged even if it's just about their own personal benefit. No one should be forced to give up and follow the rules of the community, to live a life without a voice, and a life that's not suited to one's needs. But that's what real life looks like for this ppl.
I just thought... 7cups is better than real life. That ppl would be treated better. For once everyone would get acknowledged, and ppl would try to understand even the weirdest and smallest minorities. But it's just not true. 7cups is no better than the world out there, there's just as little understanding between ppl like IRL.
And it's kinda why I put my account on standby and went on break. This kinda injustice is why I'm sitting here sobbing, why I wanna scream or punch a wall. And seeing this discussion... I know I won't return. I can't handle this, I'm just not able to. Obviously, I did come back for a moment to post this but... it kinda was the last straw. I don't ever wanna belong to a place where minorities will not be acknowledged or understood just because they're alone with their pov.
I came back to write this just so @OneErased is not alone in this. I got your back, I'm trying to see you... no matter what happens with this button in the chats in the future, I just wanted to let you know the minority consists of (at least) two ppl now... you're not alone. <3
I wish everyone who belongs to the majority all the best for their future on here... at least everyone who thinks alike will get acknowledged and thus feel like they belong and that's the most important thing so this website can become a positive experience for you all. =)
This thread left no doubts for me that I'm better off staying away from this website, so thanks everyone for opening my eyes like this.
@suBSea
while I think some are out of line for how they went about this I know at the least I have tried and HAVE validated that anxiety such as looking farther into the situation and asking questions, I myself have tried to understand it and have even sympathize with it. While 10 minutes was my first idea seeing what it’s me and others had talked about previously it was not a do all say all. While a hour would make it unsafe for us and wouldn’t work well that does not mean other times wouldn’t work either. A forever log has been said stupid over all. If one can not remember any of group conversation that is happening over one thing for a hour which I know rarely happens at least on this side they normally said they take notes, and while that seems more practical in my mind rather then scrolling through hundreds of messages to find one.
I think it is incredibly unprofessional that you have not only ignored the fact that some of us are trying to understand but more over called us disrespectful. As I said already some of us here have handled this completely wrong but others of us have talked more over.
I am not one in this minority so having a 10 minute back up made most sense to me which is why I asked about it. But I also know I am part of someone who has been endlessly stalked, and just the other day had someone reading back to use my vulnerability as a weapon and told me awful things and harassed me over it. And I know that others have experienced such things. For the purpose of the safety of everyone in the community not just majority a hour would be too long.
while something like 20 minutes would honestly be the maximum for safety, as a few mod have even agreed. We as a community are trying to comprise for both the safety of EVERYONE even if they have not experienced this harassment yet but also peoples needs.
I would not like to be given a lecture on how we are awful for how we have acted and didn’t think of the other side because I know for one I have thought over it along with a few others here. But I thank you for your input and disregard of the actual issue on our side as well seeing you can not fully understand us either. And while you preach to try to better understand them as we are not in their shoes which we have tried (I know excluding a few) you have nit taken the time to be in our shoes. Thank you 😊
@suBSea
You clearly didn’t read my responses because not only did i validate them. I empathized with them. I suggested the last 50 messages be kept in steward of the last 30.
Aside from that you have no idea who I am, who any of the others here are. You have no idea how often we are pushed aside, invalidated, not listened to or heard. And look at you right now, invalidating us.
I will say it again, it’s safety over convenience. I don’t mean that in a rude way, but the safety and privacy of hundreds of people should come over the convenience of one. The safety and privacy of just one person should come of the convenience of one or two or 10 or 100 people. Because safety will ALWAYS be most important.
You displayed a strong misunderstanding of what any of us said and you also failed to realize that some of us were more than invalidating. But thank you for your reply, I hope the best for you in the future.
@suBSea
My comment may not help but I'm still gonna share.
As a system, I have memory issues, such as just finding my computer screen open on this tab, not having any clue whats going on in the room. This is why I find the mini scroll back helpful.
I do not find a never ending scroll back helpful at all, because a conversation that happened an hour ago, may be completely irrelevant to right now.
Never once did I think any of us invalidated a minority, but again we need our voices here as well.
A scroll back, as stated, of maybe 50 messages may be helpful, but again an endless one is just invalidating our safety.
What if my mom goes through my computer and opens this web browser and sees every message I ever sent? Everyone would feel very violated, and it's not safe.
As for the overwhelming amount of information, maybe try writing down about cups, writing down your friends. That way when you open this tab you aren't as confused.
7cups will always be a place for everyone, no matter of race, religion, sexuality, orientation, past decisions, or ability. Right now, it's not a safe space for any person on here.
@suBsea
I'm not wiling to risk my safety for a single person, or 100 people for that matter. Everyone deserves to be safe and have a voice and that is the point of this thread <3
@suBSea I'm confused with you saying everyone is against them.
For me, in general with changes like this it's about being informed with where the messages are going/how they can be accessed.
I think it's reasonable to expect that some people will adjust what they choose to post based on whether or not it's going to stay up. I share things in private different than in public, I share different things in rooms that forums. There are forums with limited access and what I share there is different than the public forums, if suddenly those forums were made public I wouldn't be happy about that happening with past posts as I posted them with the expectation they were not public.
I can see benefits and drawbacks to the history, and actually do not mind either way I am really glad this change is helping @OneErased
For those who have been helped by the change, I don't see how it being announced would have reduced the positive impact.
@suBSea
To add over this I do not change any point I’ve made, but more over would like to say this whole thing was a glitch (: hence I hope that sheds light on where we are coming from even further as cups themselves agrees! Thanks!
