GC Message Reload Update

@Jefferythebunny319 This is 7cups, and at 7cups, you're never alone.

i agree. like this whole new update thing makes me not want to open up yk bc then when i want to say something in THAT moment i cant bc ik that trolls and other ppl can go back and see so i dont anymore. me personally i dont have a good experience with people in general so yeah i have trust issues so this update kinda just makes me wanna isolate myself away from people bc im scared actually say sum bc then the whole world can see instead of it disappearing and moving on yk? so yeah if that went away...

A few members and I recently had a conversation regarding this gc message reload update, and we raised the following issues/ideas:

1. There should be more consistent alerts about these types of site updates, as well as an open polling and discussion about how everyone in the community feels about said updates, and whether there should be any tweaks or reconsiderations about any more "controversial" updates.
2. With regard to site updates, there should be more apparent notifications on the page, whether as a banner on the dashboard or the top menu bar.
3. In the past, there have been issues with past messages disappearing when the chat reloaded, which has made it challenging for members and listeners to take appropriate screenshots necessary to submit reports. If there was to be a way to load past chat history, maybe it can go back around 10 minutes maximum.
4. It would be great if there can regular sessions in SilentObserver's office, just as there used to be. These discussions can purely be designed to share feedback regarding updates such as these.
5. There should be a designated site issue complaint forum that is easily accessible from the dashboard, either as an icon or banner. This type of forum should be regularly monitored and easily accessible to all users as a method of directly sharing feedback with admins. Additionally, a link to the forum should be added to the group chatroom rules, along with the links to other important resources and forms, so that participants can add any issues at an as-needed basis.

@selflessSpruce1515

I wholeheartedly agree with this.
Instead of making changes that aren't necessary such as the reloading messages, or ones that could harm the community, the ideas Spruce has suggested, offer so much more value in having a good community, and allows us to give our imput. Members and listeners should have just as much imput as admins, mods, and devs. We are the ones who have to deal with these hard changes most. It is unfair to let our voices be unheard.

There was actually one more idea that I have forgotten to mention:

6. To aid with addressing conflicts and being aware of any situations that occur in the group chats, it would be great if the community moderators (and only the community moderators) can see the chat history of the past hour or so, since 10 minutes may not be enough to fully grasp the background of certain chat conversations if said message reload update tweak was put into place.

I am not sure what. To think about load message button on top of the chat. I have trusting issues and it hard for me to open to new people. I am not sure if I am comfortable just random people seeing what wrote in sharing circle other than people I know from sc.

if I think of any thing to say about this. Will Post again.

@Hopeandjoy12

Those are completely valid concerns, and I am really hoping that this issue can be addressed for the reasons you mentioned.

And yes, feel free to post again if you have anything else to say! We'd love to hear your input ❤️

@Mack

I can understand the concerns many ppl have here. But, for ppl with severe memory and cognitive issues - myself included - this was about the best update I've come across here. Cause I do need to take notes to keep up with long discussions, knowing things will make no sense if I don't. Mainly cause the site does want to reload time to time, and it's all lost. Having the chance to go back through the messages was about the only good update I've come across in a good while, cause it makes conversations easier with these problems.

Like said, I can understand the concerns when it comes to privacy and all. But there's always two sides of the coin, and I figured I might as well offer the other one to the conversation too.

@OneErased

that is extremely understandable as well, I think more over it’s a issue with a forever log back up. In our my discussion with some others we brought up the idea of a 10 minute re load, as spruce said a little earlier in the forum. This adjustment would allow for the site randomly reloading to not be that great of a issue knowing that within 10 minutes we most likely would not need to go up further.

As someone that benefits from this update what are you ideas on the 10 minute reload?

@Astraeuss

That wouldn't be a bad idea at all, tho 10 minutes wouldn't really help that much. If there's an hour long conversation, it would still be just as confusing if you only had that 10 minutes and not when the conversation started. I'd definitely not be against the notion of having the messages there for a particular amount of time, they don't have to be forever. But when it comes to the actual time, that would have to be discussed.

@OneErased

if I must be honest I don’t often see hour discussions on the same thing, a hour time frame brings many privacy issues, as mack said below it has been very possible for things to be worked around for a long time without this, and while it can be more convenient I think the safety of others can come way over convenience. I know myself have had many experiences with very unsafe people. And to know even a hour later things would still be there is incredibly unsafe. As you say now you take down notes, which would still be possible with the 10 minutes as it would give time, as well if it is a hour conversation it would not be possible or take a good 5-10 minutes to scroll up that long anyway. So in all practically to compromise with both safety and comfortablity of the community as a hole along with the function of memory I think 10 minutes would be the best compromise for all as it still allows cups to function as normal while still giving a extra thing for those with such issues.

@Astraeusa

@OneErased

I don’t see a “time” working. Maybe instead of showing the last 30 messages like it used to, maybe 50? But not all of the previous messages ever sent. Safety for all is more important than things being made easier for some. Privacy is more important than convenience. I don’t mean this in a rude way, but it’s not fair everyone has to feel uncomfortable and unsafe just because a handful of people want a bit of convenience. Plus I never heard anyone complain about not being able to see enough messages before.

@OneErased

I want to note that I don’t sugar coat things and none of this is meant as any disrespect or anything like that.

I’m sorry it’s hard for you to keep up with chats and remember things, I struggle with that at times too. But ultimately a persons safety and privacy is more important than someone being able to see previous conversations and messages. I don’t know what it’s like on adult side but on teen side we have been having a lot of stalking, harassment and trolling issues, along with bullying. Yeah, maybe it’s nice I can refresh my memory by reading up but it’s not fair that all of us now feel unsafe and uncomfortable sharing in what’s supposed to be a “safe space” because of this update.

I truly do sympathize with struggling to keep up and remember but just the other night I said a lot of very personal things while in a very vulnerable headspace- I said those things because the room had myself and a couple very trusted friends present. But then I remembered that the messages I was sending were never going to go away and anyone could see them at any time and I instantly shut down and started to panic because I didn’t know what to do but I knew I was uncomfortable and scared about the idea of just anyone seeing what I was talking about and I had to ask the com mod on shift to delete all of the several messages. Which they did, but it’s not fair to me that I had to have that anxiety and that I had to discontinue receiving support I really needed because of this update- and I know I’m not the only who who has had this issue. Many of us are just refusing to get support altogether.

So while yes, there are two sides to every coin, in this situation one seems to be a bit more relevant and important (for lack of better words).

@Mack

I won't sugarcoat things either, since I know I'm talking for a minority that doesn't get much voice here anymore.

I can understand your anxiety, because I feel it here every day, knowing the messages will be deleted. Knowing I'd have to keep a physical written record of ppl and what they say in order to get to know anyone here. I refuse to do that without permission. And I've met many ppl here in a similar situation. So, being anxious to chat is unfair, yes, equally to everyone. The troll problem should be dealt with as a whole on it's own, and that's a whole different ballgame.

Like I said, there's always two sides to a coin. All I'm saying is, I don't think it's a good idea to choose just one side of the coin, but to discuss for a beneficial compromise to all included with this update.

@OneErased

I listened to your side, I empathized with your side and validated it as sometimes I struggle with remembering and keeping up too. But as you said, you don’t keep notes without the consent of the other person. What this update is doing is basically keeping notes on everything everyone says with zero consent. The group chats are supposed to be a “safe place” to seek support. This is making them unsafe. Once again, it’s safety and privacy over convenience.

@OneErased

as I’ve been saying we are nit at all picking one dude if the coin, we are trying to find a solution to both, such as 10 minutes which should help and a bit while also keeping the rooms safe for the majority, because as said safety, protection, and majority availability to get support comes over convince in lack of better terms, yet we are still trying to find ways to let it both work. Such as I explained

@OneErased

bro this is for the community at cups- not for a personal benefit. it is more about safety than convenience.

@OneErased

Honestly i was really trying to hear your side, but i dont.

It honestly is affecting a large part of the community, and imo majority should take the win. I understand we need to make it inclusive to all, but jst because one person has an issue with it- or even likes it in this case- doesnt mean we need to make the rest of the community uncomfortable. Theres no "2 sides" theres literally one, it makes people uncomfortable and its unsafe period.

The long discussions point also makes zero sense, its unfortunate to hear that you deal with memory issues, but like are you really going to scroll up for an hour of conversation? Like it seems you taking notes about people is solving your issue- but what about our issue??? im sorry but i dont believe that it needs to include any other side

majority should always win

I'm sorry I brought up anything, like the disabled side of this site exists to begin with. I'll withdraw from the convo cause I'm clearly at the wrong here, pointing at the things ppl don't wanna hear.

All the best to you all, whatever happens to this place.

@OneErased

its nit that no one wants to hear, what’s frustrating is that with us understanding and even bringing up other options it seems we are not being listened to and also being told we aren’t seeing both sides, which isn’t true. And I think that’s what’s making people frustrated. As we have listened and even brought up more things to your point.

@OneErased

I’m sorry you feel that way. But ultimately a lot of us have disabilities that aren’t catered to that you aren’t aware of, maybe that nobody is aware of. I hear your side, I understand your side. That’s why I said maybe something like the last 50 messages instead of the last 30 messages staying visible.

It isn’t about you being wrong. I think that it is that we all feel uncomfortable and unsafe in a place where we spend a lot of time, in a place we used to utilize very frequently. And that the safety/privacy issues are a bit higher ranking in terms of what needs to be prioritized. I hope you have a good night and I wish you the best, take care.

@OneErased I think you do bring up a good reason of how this can be helpful, there are definitely pros and cons to the change. I think this can also be helpful with moderating group chats. Overall, my biggest concern is being informed. If people were informed beforehand, they are able to choose what they are comfortable with sharing. That didn't happen.

The same is true for 1-1s, someone might have deleted the chat if they knew it was possible to go back to the start and not just the last however many messages. At least it's still possible to delete now, but the lack of information did mean some listeners may have been able to review a chat that a member didn't intend to be reviewed.

@AffyAvo

while asking one of the kids they brought up the idea of modding and why this update might be important, but for that factor why don’t mods only get the ability to go back up by 15-20 minutes. that would solve a issue and not feel unsafe the members.

@Astraeuss

mods not kids. sorry for spelling

@AffyAvo

I agree with you 100% on being informed, but in many ways I've already given up on that happening on this site. I don't do well with changes, disabilities and all, so I've been jarred by a lot of the updates. This happened to be the rare one that would actually help me, so I'm sad they didn't do that all the more.

@OneErased

Updating you that the glitch is being fixed, as H put. Over all I think that really does make most sense to the chat room and as someone who is enjoying this glitch I jsut wanted to give you a heads up and time to adjust (:

@Astraeuss

I noticed it. And I'm not against it if that's what the majority wants. I never was. I understand the anxiety. I understand the safety issues. What I said was in no way trying to invalidate that.

All I wanted to do was to share my point of view on this. That there are some ppl who do benefit from it. That's all I wanted to do. But while ppl keep bringing up safety, I lost all the feelings of safety posting in the forums, taken the comments I got just for wanting to share my point of view. On a site where it should be encouraged.

I do appreciate you letting me know, thank you for that. Like I said, I have removed myself from this conversation cause I don't feel safe sharing here. So I'd like to keep it that way.

I sincerely hope you all enjoy your time here, and I wish you all all the best in life.

I do feel for anyone who found the history to allow them to participate more fully.

I was instructed by my dear friend Alex to post my genuine thoughts on the update. My exact words were

"I feel as if I an standing ontop of the empire state building surrounded by Glass completely naked, and everyone's cameras are pointed at me"

I was being a tad dramatic but still. I feel very violated and exposed and at this point I'm just *** and I can't even share anything in my one safe space.

@MackYou are 1000000% right about everything you have said. This needs to be fixed. All this will do is cause problems. FIX IT 7 CUPS NOWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

@mytwistedsoul

in reply to your comment i should just state that the reload has been available in 1-1 chats for quite some time now. I agree in 1-1 it makes perfect sense, and also saving for a discussion may not be a bad idea.

@Jefferythebunny319 Oh I wasn't aware of that. Shows how observant I've been! Thank you! :)

@mytwistedsoul Same here!

@mytwistedsoul

I totally agree to this. Although when we are discussing this update it does not include the 1-1 chats being saved as that was an older update.

You mentioned conflict is likely to be screen shot which is very true, i myself have some. But that is in an act of doing wrong that needs to keep the community safe. not keeping things that let people be vulnerable and victimized. Overall there is no need for a reload as i can often times just scroll up to get anything i was missing. While the site does sometimes randomly reload i don’t find it an issue that happens often enough that it is an issue. it’s a minor inconvenience i need to deal with.

Thank you for putting in your thoughts as i think this helps sum up a lot of points that did not come across well

@mytwistedsoul

Hey hey, Soul! Good to see you contributing here ❤️

You definitely summarized all of the points wonderfully, and I agree that the reloading update would be more appropriate for 1-1 chats, as it can help the member and listener alike to stay on top of the topics that were discussed in the past, and also aid the listener specifically in being able to check in on a member if they were struggling with a specific issue. On the other hand, in group chats, there are way too many variables to keep in mind, and having our information and shares lingering from weeks and even months ago exposes us to privacy/safety concerns.

I also agree with the lack of transparency with regard to these updates. Many of us depend on this site as a medium for support and comfort, and if there is a loss of trust with admins and devs, then there's essentially no sense of community.

@selflessSpruce1515 I thought it odd last week when the Trauma chat room was opened - that the prior chat was still there from before. *I host a DID chat there on Wednesdays right now 😬* The mod and I chalked it up to the room not being closed for long enough. I don't think either of us was aware of the change at the time. So I do genuinely understand the need for safety and security in the rooms and that no one should have the things they say there used against them in anyway. I'm sorry you're all dealing with that

@mytwistedsoul

It’s especially concerning that you witnessed this in Trauma Support, since that’s when a lot of members open up about sensitive times in their lives, and may not be so open about sharing it with *everyone*, especially beyond the bounds of the discussion. I really appreciate how understanding you are about the situation, and I hope that this can be resolved on both the teen and adult sides. ❤️

@mytwistedsoul

I managed to miss this reply 😀 I agree with you 100%. Conflicts always tend to spread across rooms. Something that really upset me is a few nights ago a member who was upset with me went into a different room, was talking bad about me and making things up while using my username. I wasn’t even active in that room at the time and didn’t see it til 10-15 minutes later. The com mod on shift did not do anything about it, not even delete the comment revealing my username. If I were to reload the old messages it would still be there now. Anyone can see it. People who are new, who don’t know me could see it, read all the comments of how awful I am that were made by a member simply because they disliked a rule I reminded of, and from that point just assume I’m some awful person. I’ve already been harassed by things and by people when I’ve had no idea who they are- just the other night while I wasn’t even online a listener came into a room and started calling me swears and names. A listener I’ve never even met before. I entered the room and read up and that’s what I saw. That’s also never going away because the com mod once again did nothing. Everyone can see it. This update is making bullying and harassment so much easier. I don’t even feel safe existing within the group chats at this point. Even when I’m not sharing and being vulnerable.

@Mack That's not right at all. I try not to dis the mods too much but it bothers me when they let things like that stand with no sticking to the rules. Because I thought that we weren't supposed call anyone out by name. And I thought everything was supposed to be kept supportive. I know it's frowned on in the forums - I guess I figured it was the same in the rooms too. While I haven't seen anything like that in the adult rooms - I have seen some rather intimate chats that the mods let continue because - there wasn't an active discussion going on at the time