GC Message Reload Update

@mytwistedsoul

The bullying and harassment issue is bad on teen side. It is one of our main concerns with this update. It’s one of the reasons we are so upset by it. And I suppose it just upsets me to see others talking like we are wrong for disliking it because it makes life a little easier for others- meanwhile it’s making life a lot more scary and unsafe for the rest of us. The two situations I just described are nothing compared to some of the other things that have and continue to happen. And my reply was in no way an attempt to dis any mods- just to make a point.

@mytwistedsoul I do see where @OneErased is coming from in group chats. I have had just as good discussion or support in a group chat as I have had in a 1-1. If making notes from a meeting or discussion that can also be helpful, and being able to look over a discussion has benefits for some people too.

There has been some talk about a block feature, without specifics of how it will work or when it's being implemented (I expected that a while ago).

I would have thought something like that would have come in first. If it's a true block and not just a mute that could reduce some (not all) of the safety concerns.

I wasn't against the group chat history when it was a planned change, although certain do understand the arguments against it. It would be nice if this could have been tested (with informing people) in certain rooms first. Huddle rooms come to mind.

@AffyAvo I can see One's side too tbh. I'm kind of conflicted because I can see both sides. I can see the benefits and how it would be helpful. Even to myself at times. At the same time I can understand the concerns about everything being accessible to the wrong people and the lack of safety people will feel. Tbh - I've never muted anyone and I'm not completely sure how a hard block works. I'd love for them to find a solution that can give everyone what they need and want in the chat rooms

@mytwistedsoul

i honestly think that’s a very valid concern. I know already that people feel they can’t share even in sessions knowing it will be saved. And it’s scary to know your vulnerabilities can be shared to anyone or even other people you aren’t comfortable with and know are there. Such as a next session, honestly if there was a way for bight to work that would be great but form what I’ve seen so far I don’t really know how that would work :/

@Astraeuss Missed your message earlier - sorry about that. It can be scary you're right about that. Especially if we've been vulnerable before and it was used against us. Tbh going into a room that's only open certain times and seeing the prior chat felt like I was eavesdropping

@mytwistedsoul

its alright! And yes more or less, honestly leaving chats feels like a invasion of privacy to me. Especially in vulnerable places or rooms.

@mytwistedsoul It is a glitch please click this link, to read about, it is from our community director/head of community Heather225

https://www.7cups.com/forum/SiteUpdatesInformationFortheCommunity_100/Siteupdatesandchanges_2007/HeadsuponheReloadMessagesfunction_295214

I hope this helps.

@calmMango9611 Thank You for the link Mango :) I'm glad they're working on it

@mytwistedsoul Yeah, I do see how that is different with rooms that are popup. Someone can easily see something from a while ago vs a lot of reloading if it's 24/7.

The old messages sticking around has happened for quite some time with the popups, I recall that occurring with meetings a lot. The difference was though it used to be the last handful, not reloading an entire discussion.

Maybe a delete my messages option could be enabled if the chat history is staying?

@AffyAvo

I think the reason we aren’t given smth where we can delete our own messages is because it would make it all too easy for someone to say something awful to someone and then delete their message before a mod has a chance to intervene. As much as I would love the option to delete my own messages I don’t think we would ever be given a setting like that

@AffyAvo I have to admit I got alittle excited with the concept of a delete my messages button but then I read @Mack reply and realized that @Mack is right in that people could use it for the wrong reasons but it has alot of appeal

I wonder if when you leave a chat room if it could be a pop up option? *You've finished your chat would you like to delete your messages?* type thing? Idk

@mytwistedsoul Or give moderators access to a log including deleted messages. I do thing there should also be a lag to the deletion so it doesn't cause confusion with the live chat.

Currently, we allow for the choice to delete messages in 1-1s (self) and forums (by request) but not group chats.

@mytwistedsoul

@AffyAvo

Usually if you ask a mod to delete your message they will. But when you’re asking them to delete ALL of your messages it would get really tricky and disruptive. Everyone is trying to come up with all of these ideas that in theory are good ones, but in cups reality impose more safety threats. The easiest solution to all of this would be remove this update.

I understand it’s a good thing a very small percentage of cups but it’s more harmful overall. Like I’ve said, safety over convenience. And these ideas end up just being more convenience.

(I hope this didn’t sound rude or agressive- it isn’t my intent)

@mytwistedsoul

i feel like even that would be abused unfortunately, although when it comes down to both sides working effectively with each other I know on teen side at the least almost all messages would be deleted. Leaving the point of the messages still being there unless.

@Mack

No problem with how you are expressing your opinion! It sounds like the nature of a room might dictate a bit of how beneficial this change is. Generally, I wish this place was safer. A zero tolerance policy was made initially for the group rooms but I never really saw anything that I would call zero tolerance being used.

A little odd, when a change was announced years ago I don't recall people being concerned about the rooms, it was 1-1s. Maybe that's just my memory.

@AffyAvo

I honestly don’t remember any announcement of changes in rooms related to this. If i would have seen them I would have given my two cents then. I just know this update is leaving me and many others without the support we need because it no longer feels safe to seek it in the group chats and it’s extremely difficult (at least for me) to find a listener that not only is comfortable taking my chat topics but can handle my meltdowns and me trying to push them away and not take it personally when I split. I’ve gone through so many listeners that it feels hopeless how and the group chats were the only space I felt even semi comfortable sharing.

So... I've followed this discussion for a while, and seeing how a minority is being invalidated just because they're a minority, that their point of view doesn't need to get considered just because they are not like everyone else here... I tried to stay out of this but this kind of injustice is something I can't just ignore.

And there I thought 7cups was a place where it's ok to be different, it's ok to have special needs... that 7cups would be inclusive and welcoming towards ppl with disabilities no one else can understand... that there's a general sense of understanding here for what it's like to feel like an alien that doesn't ever belong anywhere. I did believe such ppl would get acknowledged here. I did believe the majority would be more open to try and find out what the minority's world looks like.

Yes it sucks when there is just one person stating they don't have a working memory and they can only get along here if there's some kind of option to read back to messages. It sucks when there's only one who has opposing needs to everyone else. And it's pointless cause it's clear their needs can't be met cause no one else shares those needs. But I did expect that you'd say their anxiety is as valid as yours.

Like, you enter this website and each time you come here you can't remember any of the ppl or threads, you can't remember who you ever chatted with, you have no recollection of anything you did here ever since you created your account, you can't remember a single one of the discussions that ever happened on this site, you can't remember which of them you joined, you can't remember what they were about. You can't remember a single conversation you ever had here. This whole place is a giant information overload and overwhelming chaos. All you have are your notes, the stuff you wrote down like a letter to your future self. That's the only thing that gives you a tiny bit of orientation. Or maybe a certain button to reload older messages. Cause you can't think back to anything, the past is completely deleted, and your memory is a blank space. I dunno how scary that state is either but at least I'm trying to imagine.

And it takes me about 10 seconds to realize that reading back to the last 10 minutes of a convo is not even a drop in the ocean when you can't remember a single thing of anything you did here. Reading back to 10 minutes is maybe like 1% of the amount of stuff normal ppl can remember just by using their brain and thinking back. But what if you don't have that part of your brain? So 10 minutes is just not helping.

So they can only state it's not helping cause that's how it is, that's their reality. And what do they get for it? Invalidation, everyone's getting mad, everyone's going against them because they dare to describe their point of view although they're just a minority. Awesome.

Sometimes you just wanna be heard and validated. You're not being a minority to upset anyone. You're basically used to the fact that no one ever understands you, you're used to the fact that no one would ever adjust to your needs because you have no right for that, you need to adjust to the majority and whatever they need. Whenever you're trying for someone to understand you the reaction is "bro this is for the community at cups- not for a personal benefit".... your personal benefits don't matter, you need to shut up and adjust to the community. That's how life works for someone with an unusual disability. And it's not fair. Everyone should have a right to express their personal needs, a right to be acknowledged even if it's just about their own personal benefit. No one should be forced to give up and follow the rules of the community, to live a life without a voice, and a life that's not suited to one's needs. But that's what real life looks like for this ppl.

I just thought... 7cups is better than real life. That ppl would be treated better. For once everyone would get acknowledged, and ppl would try to understand even the weirdest and smallest minorities. But it's just not true. 7cups is no better than the world out there, there's just as little understanding between ppl like IRL.

And it's kinda why I put my account on standby and went on break. This kinda injustice is why I'm sitting here sobbing, why I wanna scream or punch a wall. And seeing this discussion... I know I won't return. I can't handle this, I'm just not able to. Obviously, I did come back for a moment to post this but... it kinda was the last straw. I don't ever wanna belong to a place where minorities will not be acknowledged or understood just because they're alone with their pov.

I came back to write this just so @OneErased is not alone in this. I got your back, I'm trying to see you... no matter what happens with this button in the chats in the future, I just wanted to let you know the minority consists of (at least) two ppl now... you're not alone. <3

I wish everyone who belongs to the majority all the best for their future on here... at least everyone who thinks alike will get acknowledged and thus feel like they belong and that's the most important thing so this website can become a positive experience for you all. =)

This thread left no doubts for me that I'm better off staying away from this website, so thanks everyone for opening my eyes like this.

@suBSea

while I think some are out of line for how they went about this I know at the least I have tried and HAVE validated that anxiety such as looking farther into the situation and asking questions, I myself have tried to understand it and have even sympathize with it. While 10 minutes was my first idea seeing what it’s me and others had talked about previously it was not a do all say all. While a hour would make it unsafe for us and wouldn’t work well that does not mean other times wouldn’t work either. A forever log has been said stupid over all. If one can not remember any of group conversation that is happening over one thing for a hour which I know rarely happens at least on this side they normally said they take notes, and while that seems more practical in my mind rather then scrolling through hundreds of messages to find one.

I think it is incredibly unprofessional that you have not only ignored the fact that some of us are trying to understand but more over called us disrespectful. As I said already some of us here have handled this completely wrong but others of us have talked more over.

I am not one in this minority so having a 10 minute back up made most sense to me which is why I asked about it. But I also know I am part of someone who has been endlessly stalked, and just the other day had someone reading back to use my vulnerability as a weapon and told me awful things and harassed me over it. And I know that others have experienced such things. For the purpose of the safety of everyone in the community not just majority a hour would be too long.

while something like 20 minutes would honestly be the maximum for safety, as a few mod have even agreed. We as a community are trying to comprise for both the safety of EVERYONE even if they have not experienced this harassment yet but also peoples needs.

I would not like to be given a lecture on how we are awful for how we have acted and didn’t think of the other side because I know for one I have thought over it along with a few others here. But I thank you for your input and disregard of the actual issue on our side as well seeing you can not fully understand us either. And while you preach to try to better understand them as we are not in their shoes which we have tried (I know excluding a few) you have nit taken the time to be in our shoes. Thank you 😊

@suBSea

You clearly didn’t read my responses because not only did i validate them. I empathized with them. I suggested the last 50 messages be kept in steward of the last 30.

Aside from that you have no idea who I am, who any of the others here are. You have no idea how often we are pushed aside, invalidated, not listened to or heard. And look at you right now, invalidating us.

I will say it again, it’s safety over convenience. I don’t mean that in a rude way, but the safety and privacy of hundreds of people should come over the convenience of one. The safety and privacy of just one person should come of the convenience of one or two or 10 or 100 people. Because safety will ALWAYS be most important.

You displayed a strong misunderstanding of what any of us said and you also failed to realize that some of us were more than invalidating. But thank you for your reply, I hope the best for you in the future.

@suBSea

My comment may not help but I'm still gonna share.

As a system, I have memory issues, such as just finding my computer screen open on this tab, not having any clue whats going on in the room. This is why I find the mini scroll back helpful.

I do not find a never ending scroll back helpful at all, because a conversation that happened an hour ago, may be completely irrelevant to right now.

Never once did I think any of us invalidated a minority, but again we need our voices here as well.

A scroll back, as stated, of maybe 50 messages may be helpful, but again an endless one is just invalidating our safety.

What if my mom goes through my computer and opens this web browser and sees every message I ever sent? Everyone would feel very violated, and it's not safe.

As for the overwhelming amount of information, maybe try writing down about cups, writing down your friends. That way when you open this tab you aren't as confused.

7cups will always be a place for everyone, no matter of race, religion, sexuality, orientation, past decisions, or ability. Right now, it's not a safe space for any person on here.

@suBsea

I'm not wiling to risk my safety for a single person, or 100 people for that matter. Everyone deserves to be safe and have a voice and that is the point of this thread <3

@suBSea I'm confused with you saying everyone is against them.

For me, in general with changes like this it's about being informed with where the messages are going/how they can be accessed.

I think it's reasonable to expect that some people will adjust what they choose to post based on whether or not it's going to stay up. I share things in private different than in public, I share different things in rooms that forums. There are forums with limited access and what I share there is different than the public forums, if suddenly those forums were made public I wouldn't be happy about that happening with past posts as I posted them with the expectation they were not public.

I can see benefits and drawbacks to the history, and actually do not mind either way I am really glad this change is helping @OneErased

For those who have been helped by the change, I don't see how it being announced would have reduced the positive impact.

@suBSea

To add over this I do not change any point I’ve made, but more over would like to say this whole thing was a glitch (: hence I hope that sheds light on where we are coming from even further as cups themselves agrees! Thanks!

I seriously do not like this change due to 1 privacy issues 2 members do not want what they are saying to a certain group to be read by otherssince they have trusting issues. I do not think change would be good for teen side of. Site since what they gone though and Also because of. Privacy issues.

I hope this. Gets changed fast.

@Mack and anyone else who is interested. The reason many of you likely do not remember any past discussion when an update like this was brought up was because it was 5 years ago.

You can see the threads here (voting) and here (planned update) if interested, and a later update.

@AffyAvo

Yeah that makes sense then 😀 I wasn’t even old enough to be here at that time 😅

Who are the powers to be to talk to about this? This change has changed the temperature of the chat rooms. The trauma room feels unsafe to people now. And maybe I shouldn't have told them about it but it felt wrong not to say something. I wanted to be upfront about it. Transparent. First question anyone asked was about a notice - Did we get a notice? No we did not. There was no warning. There was no choice. I don't know how many people will even come to the chat now.

@mytwistedsoul

i don’t think it’s at all wrong to be honest, and what you are experiencing is what we’ve been seeing on teen side, support room has been super empty and people aren’t coming online or saying things. This honestly needs to be changed because it’s awful.

@Astraeuss So many people had no idea that there was a change. I can see maybe in some spaces like @Jefferythebunny319 said. Maybe in chats when there's a discussion - It could be helpful. Or in the huddles they have. But some places - the places you share harder emotions and thoughts. Half the time it can be triggering enough but then to be able to have someone go and read what another person said in what is supposed to be a safe space - Idk. I'm so frustrated right now

@mytwistedsoul

i 100% agree. It’s plain wrong to me.

@mytwistedsoul @Asilentobserver oversees the chatrooms. There's also the feedback form, but for something like this I think it's better to have a dialogue (or do both).

I'm confused why they choose to make it go back so far. Would be so awesome if each community had a choice on the timeframe but that's probably way too complicated. Maybe for popup rooms they could at least implement a clear all button so after a discussion they could be removed. Even if only admins/com mods had that capability, it would be something that could help.

@AffyAvo Thank you Affy. I'll have to send a message to @Asilentobserver. And I'll probably do the feedback form too just to make sure all my bases are covered. That's a good idea for pop up rooms. Because they're not open all the time and if a mod or admin has the power to do it that would be enough for me. I think it would set quite a few people's minds at ease. It would definitely help

@mytwistedsoul @affyavo

Obs is already well aware of our dislike for this update, I know a lot of people on the teen side have sent many messages, having more people message would not be a bad idea though.

@Astraeuss I definitely plan to add my voice to this - hopefully someone will come up with something we can agree with

@mytwistedsoul

i hope so as well, but I wish until then they would remove the update to let everyone be comfortable

I've given it a hint of thought still, and maybe a reload in the community rooms, (TCR/MCR) isn't a horrible idea. Well not as bad in Support rooms of any kind. I normally try to see both sides when dealing with something like this, and my only reason for sharing anything of this sort is..

Idk about MCR but TCR can be very chaotic, many times you pull away for a minute and the chat has already ran through the little scroll back option. This is not nessicarily a bad thing at all, but sometimes members get very frustrated having to repeat themselves.

When games are going on in TCR most times the host has a hard time keeping up with the players and vica versa.

I am in *no way shape or form* trying to defend the update, its still really unsafe, what am i trying to share is perspective. Maybe this way, when others come on this thread, it doesn't seem so 2 sided (the main posters against the update, and other people commenting for the update). I have previously shared my opinion against the update (both in rooms and a little on here) and i just feel like a little perspective may help.

Also like from a computer perspective, isn't like it like horrible for the backup drives of cups it's self. Can't it lead to site lag and a bunch of glitches, which just means more angry members

@Jefferythebunny319

tcr is a point I guess? But at the same time things are often shared among certain people in that chat, for example I am on at many different times not everyone is on, such as between 1 and 4 am. That is a much different group of people I have come to know very well. And also a time that I will mostly know who is there and not many new people are joining in. During that time I will share certain things because I’m comfortable with those people. While those messages are gone by morning with more the 30 messages from the end now someone can easily load back twice and see those all, which to me is extremely uncomfortable.

@Astraeuss

Thank you for sharing. I honestly had no clue and it's very important that you shared that, because my whole perspective has changed.

@Jefferythebunny319

i think often times we only see rooms when they are super active which can cause many to not think it’s far to bad but as someone who is usually on when maybe 3 others are it changes what you share entirely. And also takes away the whole argument of lurkers because at that time there honestly is non.