November 2019 Community Update: A Return to Community

@GretasRebel As a 5 year Listener, Room Supporter, and member of the DJ I am going to request you refrain from targeting an entire generation and calling someone a snowflake. Please.

@GlenM

Glen. You wouldnt close 7 cups without warning would you? I just had a thought of waking up one day and it not being here anymore. You know how important it is for people dont you?

Im not pretending I understand anything about running something like this. Im sure its extremely demanding and challenging.

Im just anxious and worried as a member here.

@warmheartedTurtle6662 working with you all to create this site has been the hardest thing I've ever done. It is also the most beautiful and the most rewarding thing I've ever had the honor of being a part of - I love our community. You have my word that I will never let this site close. It is much too important to me and to many of you. I'd give my last penny to keep it going. As long as I'm alive and functioning I'll keep this site going.

@GlenM

Thank you. I just dont know where Id be without this site. But I can imagine the work involved in keeping it going too

Hi @glen,

Im so glad you found the time to come back and start the process of listening to all the constructive thoughts about the changes you see fit to make and have made thus far. I respect that you want to be addressed first with a compliment, then any thoughts you may be uncomfortable hearing, and end with a compliment, in a way to keep the process respectful constructive, and productive.

I'd like to begin by saying your idea to create a website where we can all come to free and freely short and long term was a brilliant idea, and it has many positive attributes.

I went on a search when i was on the brink of seld-demise and I found your site.

The first thing I began to notice is that 95% of the listeners have their off-line red light on so they can work at the pace they feel comfortable with and have no accountability or pressure. It's volunteer work so I understand, and I quickly learned to do the same thing on my listener account.

It took me quite a while to find a good listener but i can honestly say only one named Peter followed the rules to the letter.

Some rules need to be broken in order for a member to make a connection, but It's a balancing act, to say the least.

Some listenets are so poor that I left with my perception being that the whole world is dysfunctional.

The site is very good, but not good at all for a person who is depressed and feeling lost because find out how to use it takes time that some people may not have left. The rules are not clear so at times a mod may appear with a badly timed warning.

I would like to reccomend that you read the more than 500 posts on the thread called Room Announcement, because many people had many good ideas and at the time this was the place to post them at. They all should feel like they did not waste their time.

Forum, Site Updates, Glen's Nook - Community, Room Announcement

I reccomend that at the point of creating a new thread, if the catagory has any specific rules ( Create a pop-up window) for rules or trigger warnings; such as (Please do not post gifs in this catagory) or (No complicated gifs due to the potential of the potential triggering of or causing some diagnosis any harm).

The most from all of the complaints I've read was most of the recent changes came on the same day they were implimented.

Even today some people are returning to 7cups to find their feed and everything they held dear is gone forever.

Many people liked chatrooms but now cannot get in and still have no clue why because the announcments must be searched for.

I reccomend any and all announcement go directly to the chat of each member with the notification bell on so we can all not have to wonder. You can end each message by saying "Please do not respond to these informational announcements due to the entire community getting them all at the same time.

There are many good ideas you really should go read and consider that could ease the suffering that these sudden basically unannounced changes are still causing.

You have a great site and we all look forward to better communication in our future here with you.

Thank you, Reed

FuturesRise (Listener)

@FuturesRise / Reed, thank you for this thoughtful message and post. I appreciate you using the sandwich approach and recommend that we all use it when providing anyone feedback moving forward.

And, most importantly, I'm very glad to hear that you connected with good people on this site and they helped you through a tough spot. That is 100% why we exist. We exist to help people like you - and people like me - who have been in pain and have not had other places to turn. That is the heart of 7 Cups.

I know there has been a lot of pain and unnecessary frustration with the rooms. I'm connecting with Heather tomorrow to review several things and find ways to iterate on the current model we are following. I have reviewed that post and will do again prior to my meeting with Heather.

Thank you again for the thoughful feedback Reed!

@GlenM

Hi Glen,

It really means so much to so many having this wonderful site you created. I recently have been feeling much better, so much so that Im looking for my fit on 7cups. Im sorry for all my spelling errors in my message; I'm not sure which is worse, the unexpected spellchecker changes or my to large of a finger wandering in error lol I'm a disable veteran on a fixed income so low that i'm deeply challenged in many ways, and I've isolated completely other than food shopping, the bank on rent day, and monthly doctor visit. I have major trust issues combined with very bad PSTD, depression, and recently idiation subsided. But i visit 7cups every day and I'm so glad I found it when I did. Please let me know if you could use my help. Thank you very much. Keep at it! Your dream of a site to help in a world full of so much suffering was a priceless and brilliant idea worth every effort.

Best wishes, Reed

@FuturesRise / Reed, Thank you for your warm words and optimistic spirit! That kind of energy is exactly what we need to keep things moving forward, to continue to work together, and make sense (as much sense as possible) for all involved. And I'm delighted that you are feeling better and wanting to get more plugged in. Thank you for your service both in the military and on 7 Cups!

@GlenM

Thank you for creating a safe pleasant space we can all come share and grow together in. I've witnessed this site working, and giving purpose and direction to many like myself. It is an honor to serve! Best regards, Reed

@GlenM Thanks so much for coming in LSR and answering questions many of us asked and I will say once again for anyone reading this Post, The site does cost money to run and it does take people to help run this size..

Glen you have done an amazing Job setting up a FREE SITE for many to come join in for Free... it does show that you do care and Mental Health does matter to you.

I am thankful and grateful for you setting up a Mental Health site that also does address Physical health also..

I have seen some positive things happen from the changes and some negatives like some people leaving the site that had roles but that was their way of dealing with the changes I believe and maybe they could not take the changes . We volunteer no one forces us to be here...

Thanks again and best wishes .

@Tyedyedbutterfly65 appreciate this context and perspective! WE have built a free site to help people. We have collectively figured out so many things. A lot longer to go on this journey, but we should be proud of how far we've come in what we have figured out. And we will keep at it!

@GlenM You are most welcome and what you have said is so True !

Good vibes to all!

@ifyouknowtocountcountwithme got them! and right back at you :)

@GlenM =D

@GlenM thankyou for the update glen beautifully written i recently got a new role QML for VL team so im excited with the stuff im to do for the programme

@CaringBrit I love the VL program; it helps so many listeners up their skills. Thank you for doing this work!

@GlenM same so i was honoured when obs asked about me moving up to help the team

@CaringBrit honored to have your help!

@GlenM

*sending good vibes, prayers, beams, and well wishes*

@uniqueAngel8317 thank you! Receiving them all and sending good vibes, pryayers, beams and well wishes back to you! Appreciate the support!

@GlenM but is there any chance for rthe old comunity gourp chats to return?

@GlenM

"When we first started 7 Cups, we were primarily focused on our community. All we cared about was building a tribe of people that deliberately cared for one another. We were able to maintain this focus from 2013-2016. Then we started running out of money and had to find ways to sustain ourselves. We were successful in that, but it also caused us to lose sight of the importance of our community."

I do not understand the part in bold: what results/outcomes made you realize you lost sight of the importance of your Community?

@GlenM @7CupsCommunity

-Bread: Saying something positive: 7Cups is great.

-Meat: Address the negative issue/item:
I want to be engaged in a Long Term Mentorship.
The type of relationship I want to have with my Long Term Mentor is:
Hands on with the mentor proactively giving goals and trackings tasks.
The type of relationship I do not want to have with my Long Term mentor is:
Hands off with the mentee being the one to initiate all or most conversations via questions or requests.
The negative issue/item is that so far I have not found a Mentor who wants to work hands on, with the mentor proactively giving goals and trackings tasks.

-Bread: Saying something positive: 7Cups is great.

@GlenM

Hi Glen. Thank you for this update. It's really nice for me to see you committing to be involved more closely in site operations and communicating with the community regularly.

I started as a member here about 2 1/2 years ago. As someone who does not have a support system offline, this site has been a crucial part of my healing journey. I eventually decided to help give back as a listener and community volunteer. I have enjoyed the roles I've held here, as I feel giving back has helped me connect and process my own pain further.

I have not been very vocal during all the changes that have happened around the community recently. However, I have been observing on my own reading the announcements and replies, as well as supporting some members who have been affected by the changes. Though I did not engage in many of the chatrooms personally, I remember reading many posts from others for years mentioning issues with the environment and asking for change. Like many others I felt affected by the removal of the Feed, and I am looking forward to learning more about its replacement soon. I know there are many different views and feelings involved with change, all of which are valid and have meaning. I also agree personally that change can be a good opportunity to reset and start over, and I was glad to see you say that still knowing this doesn't necessarily make the change easier. I have found that sometimes how we go about implementing that change is just as important as the thing we are changing itself.

Thank you for sharing your strategy on the OKRs. I have completed the survey to the best of my ability.

I also appreciate you asserting your boundaries of how you would prefer to be addressed with regard to suggestions and feedback. I have tried to do this for you in my post here. I would like to very respectfully suggest that you still consider being open to feedback that is given outside this sandwich method as well. Since this is not just any social media platform, but one specifically dedicated to supporting some of the most vulnerable in our society with a wide variety of mental health struggles, I hope there is some understanding that this is not always going to be possible. I think there is a reason we provide self-help guides, links to articles, topic-specific discussions to learn new coping methods... because most of us here are not proficient with them yet. It can be very difficult to emotionally regulate 100% of the time when we have been triggered, whether we realize it or not. There are all kinds of situations that may cause someone to feel re-traumatized, unsafe, or unsettled. I'd like to also suggest that we all here should make ourselves knowledgeable of the site guidelines before we start debating what we do and don't like, while being allowed to express our hurt and be heard. There is never a situation where anyone - member, listener, or leader - should have to tolerate abuse. However, sometimes expressions of hurt even within the guidelines can also be received as hurtful understandably; I think in those situations we have to use extra caution when exercising subjectivity about how to handle each situation.

In all honesty, I am a bit concerned about the separating of people into groups based on whether they offered encouraging sentiments vs. less-helpful feedback. I do relate to what you shared about the style of delivery making it difficult to hear the feedback, and I'm also glad you believe there are good intentions. I find the sandwich method helpful in a general context and am appreciative of its use. I really just want to make sure we aren't excluding, shaming, or ostracizing those who may be new, are not aware of those techniques or go back to read every forum post like this to learn them, or have had natural reactions to things that affect them and don't automatically think of the best coping method.

Based on my observations over the last couple weeks, I have identified 2 main areas of concern:

1) I know there have been reasons given for the site changes, so I do not wish to rehash old conversations. But during all the back and forth, I understood that both changes were in the works for quite some time. My Takeaway: The general community feeling is that most people would like to have more transparency, communication, and notice regarding changes that are being discussed - at a minimum once they reach the stage of official decision and planning. (I don't know what the reasons are that most communications are preferred to be within 1-1 PMs here, but my personal opinion is that open communication could reasonably be achieved without having to go into too much detail that might sacrifice any proprietary business information. Whether a change is decided by management or up for a community vote, either way I think communicating that can help prevent much conflict.)

2) At first, most of the replies from leadership were only to the opinions that supported the changes (which I have noted in other threads before and after this situation as well). I know that criticism can be hard to digest sometimes, but in my opinion that's something we need to be able to hear before we take on a leadership role. I've seen that over the last couple weeks, in response to the large backlash, there were some attempts made to reply to more of those posts, including some of the ones not in support of the changes. Some replies let the authors know that they were heard and it was understood why they were upset. Others gave varying reasons for why the decisions were made or how long the changes had been planned, some of which conflicted with one another depending which leader responded. Still others seemed to suggest that everyone should have somehow already seen these things coming (though this still doesn't account for people who just joined the site recently or the fact that the last communications said the feed was staying albeit unsupported), that some polite expressions of feelings were unconstructive, or that members should be expected to act professionally. (Side Note: I've gathered that there may be a disconnect between the guidelines of general respect and kindness for all members/listeners/leaders, vs the professionalism expected of only the paid employees and volunteers who represent the website. I can't really see why members - i.e., the customers - would be expected to be professional, as they are not expected to in any other business or platform. Most of what we're talking about is grey area subject to individual interpretation.) At the time of my post here, I'm not sure if all the folks who expressed opinions have been replied to or not. My Takeaway: People do not respond well to feeling unheard, invalidated, or minimized, and this often has the effect of further perpetuating conflict, especially when coming from authority figures. (I also understand that sometimes we can make our best efforts and sometimes still end up with minimal oversights and miscommunications because of human error, or still see perpetuated conflict if the other party is unwilling.)

Some additional observations:

- I think that many of those in both paid and volunteer leadership positions did try to respond with empathy and understanding; however, some did not. There seemed to be gaps in communication, with differing messages being delivered. At the same time, I also believe that some leaders have been unfairly treated or all lumped in together during the chaos.

- Unfortunately, for me a key point in this conflict was when messages started coming out from top site administration. I do feel that some empathy, validation, and understanding was offered in some ways, but then it was also followed up with heavy emphasis on the "free" nature of this website, which I interpreted as implying that people should accept something as-is even if it harms them just because it is offered for free, or their opinions should be disregarded and they should leave. I can understand the logic behind this statement to a certain extent, as I believe this is your business and should be run the way you ultimately decide, and capitalism says that we customers can choose to do business with whomever we like. However, there's also language thrown around regularly (even in this post) about this being a community, working together, and asking for feedback/suggestions... which in my mind means that there is a democratic view somewhere in there as well. I think there may be some confusion as to where the line falls between "business" and "community". Also, it simply doesn't feel like a warm and welcoming leadership stance. I think perhaps a statement like this could have been made after a conflict had been going on unconstructively for a couple weeks, where all other options were exhausted (and still as kindly as possible). But in my opinion, saying that in the very first message that we'd seen from you Glen in some time - I must admit - I felt a little disheartened and deflated.

- Subsequent threads have asked for only positive comments, with a side note that any negative comments are seemingly being kindly tolerated in the old threads only. I do honestly agree that we want to strive to stay within site guidelines, to maintain a respectful environment and be kind to one another. I do not think there is any place in a healthy debate for name-calling and such. But I have also witnessed polite posts called out because they were expressing emotions instead of solutions. I must ask, what is the point of soliciting feedback if the only feedback points toward the choice that's already been made?

- I have heard members say that this resulted in them feeling "silenced". This is a very scary thought, and not one that is new to me. I must say, all the dialogue I've seen has left me with this feeling as well, even when I can see many of the reasons for the changes. There is a reason I have not offered my thoughts until now, and the prospect of posting this is terrifying me somewhat. This website is all about getting support where people are already being marginalized, labeled, stigmatized, and ostracized regularly in their daily lives. I really think the utmost care should always be taken to avoid making people feel punished for their emotions like they so often are everywhere else. I keep reading that this is supposed to be a "safe" space from all that, even though I personally don't think we should utilize that word.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I would like to share a story that is difficult for me. I recently decided to take a self-care break as a listener. I had been thinking on it for a long time, unsure and putting it off for a number of reasons, and eventually it ended up taking a toll on me because of some recent major life changes I'm going through. When I finally made the decision, I informed my members that morning, and after hearing back from those I speak with regularly, I clicked the self-care button later that evening. Later, it occurred to me that I hadn't given these members much notice at all - to be able to get some last things off their minds, to make arrangements to connect with another listener, to prepare their own self-care, etc. There are also some members who do not log on often and we chat irregularly, who I didn't hear back from before I left... so for all I knew, the next time they'd sign on and see me gone, they might actually think they had done something wrong to make me leave or just felt abandoned. Even though I thought I was considering others, and knowing it was ok to also focus on myself, I really felt awful when I realized this. Incidentally, I am someone who thrives on change, and sadly I never even thought that others might need more time or would look at the situation differently.

This reminds me so much of the conflicts going on here recently. When I decided to be a listener, I accepted the responsibility of being empathetic and considerate of others - just as deciding to run a mental health website would mean special considerations must be taken to the vulnerabilities of the community. I gave same-day notice of a big change that would have significant effects for others, just as same-day notice was given for changes to the chat room format or removal of the feed where people connected with others they sometimes didn't talk to in other places around the site, posted their progress and personal thoughts, and shared inspirational quotes and things with one another. I did not consider all the effects to people who don't log on regularly or were on self-care break themselves, just as these same people may have been shocked to learn of the feed and chat room changes.

When I came back to talk to my members, I did not tell them that if they didn't like it they were welcome to go somewhere else. I didn't tell them how they were allowed to phrase things to me (though of course inherently my boundaries include staying reasonably within site guidelines). I didn't tell them to only give me positive or constructive feedback. I told them that they were allowed to feel how they were feeling about it, that I understood, and that I owned my mistake. I told them that their emotions were important to me and I wanted to hear what they have to say, because I honestly do. I still feel tremendous guilt, but I am trying to use it to help me to be more conscientious in the future, to fuel healthy changes for my life and how I relate with others. I share this story, risking judgment and criticism - because I don't want to write you from a hypocritical or self-righteous stance - because I'm hoping a wider lesson can be learned from it all.

I do not wish for this to come across as me judging anyone or telling you how to run your website. I am smart enough to know that there's no way I could hold together a place like this. I do not have the resourcefulness to start one up in the first place, the business knowledge to manage people and finances, the educational background in the subject matter, or even the ability to handle all the differing opinions and criticism you undoubtably face on a daily basis. I understand that no matter what decisions are made here, there's always going to be a percentage of people who are upset by it. No one solution is going to work for everyone. I know this is a long message, and I apologize. But if this is the only sentence out of it you read, I want it to be that: The decisions, the rules, the features - can always be discussed further and changed... but communication and trust - sometimes we only get one chance at that.

Thank you so much for your time and consideration in reading my post. I'm grateful for this place you have created, for all the time and energy our paid and unpaid staff put in to run it, and for all the wonderful members who have made this the site I have continually chosen to return to. You are most definitely in my thoughts and best wishes.

~ wizeakre

@wizeakre - Perfectly articulated.

@melonMeloncholy Thank you. I really appreciate your kindness.

@wizeakre

A model of communication, and for giving voice to major underling feelings in an ordered and measured way, including your own experice without any didactic lessons

@indigoCup1959 Thank you so much for reading. Your feedback and kindness help me feel better.

@GlenM

I'm a bit confused about the loss of the sense of building community as you say. Yes, more was done to bring in revenue, but I also felt like the subcommunities have taken a huge focus over the last few years. I'm really confused as to where you would go with putting the focus on building community over the next year, especially with changes like the loss of many of the 24/7 rooms which each had their communities.

While feedback sandwiches have their place, I do not think they are always the most effective. If I had never been to 7 Cups before and you asked me for feedback, the sandwich method, or at least a stack of the good and a stack of the bad would be a reasonable way to give it. When critiquing a friend's work, the sandwich method often comes across as the kindest way to still offer negative, constructive feedback. If you asked me about the recent room changes, I wouldn't necessarily go positive, negative, positive. I would probably break it down into different aspects and there are positives and negatives to various aspects.

There are times where a sandwich is just adding fluff which is unecessary. I would say this often applies to businesses, which 7 Cups falls within. If I go to a restaurant and there is something really wrong with a dish, there is no need to say well the drinks are good, the chicken in the entree is still raw so is inedible but the appetizer is good. It makes more sense to just get the entree dealt with quickly. With 7 Cups problems, glitches, safety concerns, etc. shouldn't require one to put something into a sandwich to give feedback. Feedback which only includes negative issues can be incredibly constructive.

What is expected now when putting in a support ticket because of a glitch or harassment?

What about when rating listeners? I have given some positive feedback before going into the negative before for some rather unhelpful chats. The members have been informed that when we write negative feedback about a listener they are not supposed to get our reviews, the feedback provided is less specific so they don't necessarily correlate it to a particular chat. When I have listed some of the positives though, my review ended up published where the listener (and everyone else) could read what I wrote. I would say to anyone now, when giving feedback that is negative when reviewing a listener, do not list off any positive first.

The fact that people are here and care enough to give feedback should be enough to soften the blows when it comes to feedback. If I just didn't care about this site at all I wouldn't bother making a thread such as this - https://www.7cups.com/forum/SafetyKnowledgeat7Cups_181/QuestionsfromthecommunityAnsweredDiscussedhere_36/ListenerswithmultipleaccountstakingGRs_210244/

I could have just left and left no constructive feedback at all.

"Commit to telling community leaders" - Here you have only listed off listener roles as the examples, as well as mentioning listeners. In the rest of the post you have not brought up member roles at all. We have been told multiple times that member roles are under review - how to you envision these roles with the focus on community over the next year?

@AffyAvo

Hey Affy. Can you let me know which M roles you're referencing so I can look into it?

@Heather225 Room Supporter & Mega Member

I've heard Room Supporter applications were paused, although it did seem like the role didn't change, but discussions were happening. The Mega Member role hasn't been clear for a while.

@GlenM

Thank you very much for your post Glen. I just like to mention one thing:

We all here have been and might be still going through rough times. We all have seen ups and downs in life, have overcome obstacles. This site proved to be an anchor and a home for most of us. Changes challenge us to pull together, show the strength of the community, focus on doing the best we can right now, listeners and members together as a team. I am proud of being part of this and have strong faith that it will turn out better at the end than expected.

All - I had a good conversation today with @Heather225 about our group support rooms. We are in the process of bringing on new leadership here. Look for an announcement soon. Our goal is to work with new leadership (a person from the community) to do a deeper audit on things and then create a comprehensive plan. I know the sudden changes and limited shared information has been difficult. The new leadership and plan will be developed and shared soon. We want to honor the new leadership and their assessment prior to making any additional changes.

"Think about this like raising a child. The right teacher or mentor, at the right time, can make a big impact and change the future life of that child as a teen and adult."

Except most that come in here are not children and are looking for a place to go such as the rooms you have closed to allow them to connect and get support from each other as well as listeners and mods. Im sure it doesnt cost to turn on a room in the settings or create rooms for that matter. The system can accomodate no different than any other Content Management System would, even Shoppping carts and wordpress allows for additional content or for that matter adding a chatroom so its down to server load and monetory costs. The mods in some of those rooms also gave up their free time to moderate those rooms at no cost so I simply do not understand why you would have to completely strip the entire 7 cups to start again to be honest when a few of the rooms were actually running quite successfully, well supported and visited daily such as 35+.

This has left a lot of loyal daily visitors completely lost in regards to getting any support from this site and it has left a feeling of dismay of 7 cups through lack of consideration for folk using those rooms for daily support.

I feel you have stripped this and support rooms to brainwave a new plan to gain further financial revenu following new ideas rather than keeping what success you had with the rooms and working on that to make it better.

Then asking folk, what have we done wrong and what can we do to improve it to make it better.

@An1mal

But then again, what do I know, I'm just a mentally ill person that was seeking somewhere to go that was safe to connect with folk that suffered similar issues and try and make life a little more tollerable through connection.

@An1mal

I find that a sense of community is one of the most helpful things you can have in life whe you're dealing with issues.

And these changes have very much stripped that aspect of 7cups away.

I am one of the lucky ones in that I have supporters, this aspect of community outside of 7Cups. I didn't always have it, so I don't know how I would have coped if this sudden changes had been implemented a few years ago (I had an old account here for a number of years, but got rid of it due to changes in my life). All I know is it wouldn't have gone well.

And all I can do is worry, that there might be somebody out there who was in the position I was all those years ago. I worry what they might do.

@TheMadQueen420

Hiya MadQueen, thank you for your kind words and yes there will be a lot out there that are now suffering emotionally not knowing where to turn to gain support after making connections in 7 cups for in some cases years then loosing those connections through managemrnt brainwaves to change things around and taking away that support via rooms open which was the primary reason a lot came to 7 cups, simply to connect with each other. A step or two backwards in my books, then ask questions like, what have we done wrong, what can we do to change it. DER, stop changing 7 cups, thats a clue there.

Hello,

I have not been on 7cups much of Nov, and wow the changes are quite enourmous. I have been a Listener for quite some years, and I make certain that my volunteer minutes are met, as a MOD & TL every month. Will this all change? Will I have access to these rooms?

Any information will be gladly appreciated!

Yaaaay! Thanks for the update!
♡