The River

It makes us look as if we're just reactive agents, completely passive. Not something I'd ever want to be.

@cloudySummer hey there! responding to this one instead of the other 2 above. I don't think there needs to be purpose in everything, but, as you point out, people can find purpose. And that purpose or meaning can often be very powerful when we are going through a tough time.

The analogy is definitely limited. @hope actually brought up a similar point in my PMs. It isn't that striving or trying is bad. We often have to strive or try to overcome the challenges we face when we are in the rapids or going through a tough time. It takes conscious focus and deliberate decision making for sure! What I'm trying to differentiate here is trusting how live unfolds vs. trying for how we want it to unfold and grasping onto what we want when a) it might not work out; and b) it might not be good for us.

For example, we might really want a big, fancy, house because it makes us feel good. We might even take out a big loan that we can't afford to get the house. That would be an example of forcing things (trying to get to the other side of the river outside of the current), whereas having a more humble home is more natural and less ego driven. Hope this differentiation helps!

@GlenM Hi - thank you for the reply and for the clarifications! With those, it makes sense to me.

Happy paddling :)

@GlenM

To listen to my story below, click this Google-Translate link and go to the bottom of the page that opens and click the speaker icon button to "play" the translation. You can also change the translation language if necessary. You will hear spoken all of the text below.

Hi. I've paddled white water for many years and it really taught me a lot about life.

I could tell many many life stories from all my experiences on many river trips all up and down the East and also Canada.

Paddling big or very technical white water can be very scary and challenging.

Especially when you first start learning.

I was fortunate enough to bump into someone willing to show me the moves to get me started quickly.

Having an experienced mentor helps you make progress and have fun too rather than be mostly struggling.

It's sort of like being a 7Cups newbie Listener and having a really good Listener-Mentor. Or like being a 7Cups Member and having a really good long-term Listener.

But like paddling, when Listening, you're on your own mostly and you just have to go with the current in both cases.

You can read all about paddling techniques or listening techniques, but doing it in real life is how you really learn and get true skill.

So I learned the paddling moves one-by-one. I copied my teacher's moves and that really helped. Monkey-see, monkey-do is easy when copying someone who knows what they are doing.

But then it came time for river trips. That was scary because you're on your own for stretches even though following someone.

Facing the unknown makes you want to really study a river map in-advance so you know how to navigate the most technical parts. Once you're going, you can't always stop. So you have to have strategies for different precarious situations prepared in-advance.

Now for a specific paddling river trip story.

My biggest lesson learned was when I didn't have someone experienced to follow on a river trip.

I learned the hard way that my judgement was not very good when I should have known better. I was too casual about the situation and let my guard down.

I had paddled around a waterfalls that was on one side and then I paddled up-stream just below the falls. But little did I know that just under the water was a rectangular shaped boulder. And the water was surging against the boulder but it was impossible to see that. It just looked like white water moving.

That's what it can be like when Listening to Member too. You can't assume you know the Member's full situation. You can't let your guard down. You always have to be careful. You never know what is churning inside the Member's mind.

My kayak suddenly got pinned against the flat submerged boulder. The circular current was really churning. And the kayak was totally pinned, almost fully submerged, in the middle of the river just below the falls.

Fortunately the kayak didn't flip with me in it. Instead I was able to carefully wiggle out of the pinned kayak and stand up on the adjacent submerged rectangular boulder.

Like Listening to a Member in a suddenly tricky conversation, if you keep your cool, you can wiggle your way through the hard parts.

Soon after, a raft with a really kind tour guide stopped by and "rescued" me by letting me get on the raft too so I could get down stream to my car miles down river.

I knew I would have to get my pinned kayak much later after the river dam-controlled water-release was over. Then the kayak would just float free. But that would be many hours later.

So I was allowed to paddle with the tour-guide at the back of his raft. Us both were expert paddlers, and we guided his raft that was filled with his clients in front of us who were also paddling as novices.

We both guided the raft precisely through treacherous passage-ways with ease. The team work was really enjoyable.

At the end of the river trip, all of the customers one-by-one leaned over the edge of the raft so they could each slide into the water and take a nice cool float along side the raft on that hot summer day.

Then after a while, the floating customers pulled themselves back in the raft one-by-one with a little help from us still onboard.

To my surprise, when we got to the pick-up point where the vehicles were parked, our raft headed toward the shore that was lined with wheelchairs for the rafters I was with.

I learned so many things on that river trip. I realized I and others could do so much in many tricky situations especially when we all worked as a team and helped each other. It really felt good being part of a team with the same objective.

Also I learned that people are willing to help you when you get stuck and you can fit-in quickly when others want to get-along and have fun too.

@7motivation Your story reflects some real truths about life, our expectations, human compassion and the surprises that can happen when we take action and try to reach goals. You had a mentor and you learned to kayak rivers pretty darn well. But later you learned even more through a (lucky) escape necessitated by your assumptions and a new experience. Whew! First, who hasn't had a lucky escape from one of their own serious mistakes - driving a car comes to mind. And then too, luck was only part of it - other people helped and you used your knowledge to guide you; you knew better than to stay pinned and try to muscle through. Finally it's so gratifying to be able to give back to someone who's also helped you, but even more you realized you had become part of a wider human community of people helping others and being willing to be helped. Honestly, both take courage of a sort.

Such an experience is so exquisitely human, but only available to us if we at least try to get out there. When we try to "cross the river" as Glen put it, we might not have the outcome we expect, and we might even have moments of real fear. We also might be surprised by an outcome that surpasses any we could anticipate. What a lovely experience.

@quietGrapes7841

Wow! You have very good "reflection" skills and writing skills too. After reading what you just said, I feel like you really understand my experiences. Thank you very much!

@7motivation what a great story and illustration of what you have learned! Maps and mentors - so needed for the journey! And serendipity helps too :). Glad that tour guide found you and you made good friends. Thank you for illustrating your points!

@GlenM

Thank you for listening to my story.

@7motivation thanks for sharing. That was beautiful and really inspiring.

@kindSoul10

Thank you for listening to my story. As you can imagine, that river trip was a very moving experience for me in many ways.

We have all gone through challenging times, or rough rapids, and overcome them in the past. What would you tell a friend going through difficult waters now?

A higher ideal helps us steer our ship! The higher ideal could be a cause for humanity, it could be caring for someone you love, or it could be exploring and expressing your natural talents and achieving all you want to through them. Sometimes we do not have a clear picture of our higher ideal -of what matters the most to us.

It helps to remember that each one of us does have some natural tendencies, some set of likes and dislikes. Read yourself over time by being a kind and understanding friend to yourself, and as you recognise what you really want, compassionately accompany yourself towards your goals.

Finally, whatever you do, do it for your inner peace and satisfaction. If you do it for any other reason, the spots you would lead yourself to would not be the beautiful spots that you imagined and hoped for yourself.

@Fristo as always, great points Fristo! Your higher ideal language reminds me of Paul Tillich's ultimate concerns. Thank you for sharing!

@GlenM wow glen I liked how you described it :) the rocks as obstacles and how the current can drive us to different situations. glad I could be a part of this writing also :p (just kidding)

@BlueRivercares ha! thanks for the inspiration! 😉

and that is our family motto: never give up! You just have to keep going!

Thank you for sharing!

@GlenM out of respect for peoples personal beliefs I'm going to use what you said Glenn if that's OK?

@Donny83 welcome back! and 3 cheers for unity! we need much more of that right now!

@GlenM
Thank You for sharing. I love this. Especially because I am a kayaker with mental health challenges, Often I have thought of life in this way that might help a friend in rough water:

Frequently we have to cross a river to get to where we want to be. Most times it is straight forward. If the current is strong we have to approach the other shore at an angle, against the current. The current may get too strong. It seems like we are fighting the current so much we aren't getting anywhere we want to go. That is the time to stay calm and 'Go With The Flow'. Relax and let the current carry you. Just float. Survive. Where it carries you doesn't matter, just get to the other side.
From there you can walk to your goal.

@Positron2 love all of that perspective and creative problem solving! we may think there is only one option, but like with most things there are many, many options - we just have to see them. thank you!

@GlenM

Thank you for sharing this. I am going through a hard time right now, so I can definitely relate to this post. Thank you for sharing. This was beautiful and very real. Acknowledges that life has its challenges.

There is a mug that my friend got me that says life is tough but so are you. It has a sailboat on it. It has been really getting me through this hard time right now even when I do not know where the current will take me.

@Heavenlyhorizons It isn't your precious mug from your friend ...

The larger version

@SparklyFly

Aww thank you so much. This is so sweet. You made my day.

@Heavenlyhorizons thank you for those kind words. I appreciate you underlining it feeling real. That is one thing I love about our community. Filled with authenticity!

And I appreciate the emphasis on being "tough". I think we need more of that to get through challenges. Like Rocky said, "you've got to be able to take a punch" and we have to keep getting back up!

@GlenM “So it is that we can seldom help anybody. Either we don't know what part to give or maybe we don't like to give any part of ourselves. Then, more often than not, the part that is needed is not wanted. And even more often, we do not have the part that is needed.”
― Norman Maclean, A River Runs Through It

@Screenname333 been a long time since I've seen that one!

@GlenM Glen I am impressed that you cared enough to chat a little with me for free.

@ALeXaNdEr0712

Friend - I'm a really strong woman. I throw out a thick rope for you to fasten around your waist. So I get you to the shore. Here I made a fire for us, dry clothes for you, pizza to eat and chocolate to drink. At 7Cups there are group for teenagers like yourself.

@Helgafy this is AMAZING and why I love our community! Thank you for representing us so well! Thank you for looking out!

@ALeXaNdEr0712

What helgay said ^^

@ALeXaNdEr0712

Ooooo yummy 😁

@GlenM

Hi. Regarding the "Reflection question":

• We have all gone through challenging times, or rough rapids, and overcome them in the past. What would you tell a friend going through difficult waters now?

My answer:

• As a Listener, I would not tell them how to think or how to feel. I would avoid "toxic positivity" phrases too.
  
  
• I would avoid projecting my point-of-view and values on their situation.
  
  
• I would avoid trying to oversimplify their situation and oversimplify what they should do.
  
  
• I would not tell them what to do or think.
  
• Instead I would listen for their very specific concerns.
  
  
• Then I would ask them questions that might help them better understand how to deal with their situation from their perspective, values, past experiences, and abilities.

If you name a very specific "difficult waters" situation and explain more about the person, then I can explain in detail what I might say to help-them-help-themselves.

@7motivation I appreciate the informed and very conscientious stance. Thank you for taking active listening so seriously as both a practice and a discipline. Hats off!

@GlenM

"Turn poison into medicine" is a Buddhist attitude similar to the Stoic one (both life philosophies share much in common).

I would tell my friend she is doing great staying afloat, to always laser-focus on the current challenge and the critical task at hand to overcome it.

To learn and follow the "rules of the river". Because she can get knowledgeable and skillful at those, but she can't change them.

That she will get stronger at paddling and better at finding the way between the menacing rocks.

And to celebrate the thrill of overcoming obstacles and moving forward, because "the journey is the destination."

@HealingTalk a key insight not yet raised - the rules of the river - that cannot be changed. Thank you!

@GlenM

Thank you for such an enlightening post. It is a nice acknowledgement that there will be difficult times but also many amazing times during life too, and by accepting both of them, we learn so much more about life. It is not possible to resist the negative aspects of life and still feel the positive moments, we have to let both in and learn along the way.

I would tell a friend going through difficult times that I hear and see them. I'll sit beside them through their tough times, and we will work it out together, even if it means that I just listen. Often we do not want to be told what to do, but we just want to know that we are not alone so I would do my best to send this message.

@LisaMeighanMScGMBPsS

I really admire how your answer follows the Listener Guidelines!

I will remember your suggestion.

I think perhaps it is the best so far.

People don't want to be told what to do usually. And even if they do in a situation, it can disempower them by effectively encouraging them to not take on their responsibilities and or use their abilities.

Telling them "You hear them and will be there in their tough times and help them work it out by listening" is the best answer I believe.

Thank you!

@LisaMeighanMScGMBPsS as always, filled with wisdom - focusing on the key elements. Thank you for reminding us that the good and the bad are part of life and to not hold onto things too tightly ✨

@GlenM, thank you for the wonderful words and for this wonderful community, which has provided me with so much support and friendship in my toughest times yet. I would encourage others to keep reaching out, especially here. Thank you again ❤️

@Help127 - smart and clear - "keep reaching out" - glad you are here! (didn't realize that rhymed until just now :)

@GlenM When my friends are struggling, I first empathise and validate their feelings, It's ok to be struggling, life IS hard! I also try to give them hope it can get better, I have been there too and I am better now, and they can get there too. It's normal to have up and down, and when we are struggling its because we get somewhere we never been before. EVERYTHING is first very hard, before to become easy. Life is learning. Its also ok, to take a small break, to take care of ourselves, before to ride the wave. or being accompanied in this. Life is learning, and sometimes we need some coaching or a mentor when something is new and challenging. But we can do it.

Here on 7cups, we have the opportunity to find people who passed through diverses challenges on this river and passed through it, and can guide us in it, we can find people to support us while trying, and showing us its possible to overcome every obstacle. We have a lot of encouragements, and its something I would definitely continue to give to my friends too!

Life is a progression and yes there will always have new challenges but by overcome more of them we will gain self confidence and we all can get there where we want to go. Perseverance <3

@TortueDesBois thank you for sharing Tortue! I love the simple truth that life IS hard! Just knowing that goes so far and helps us know that there isn't something wrong with us for struggling. That is indeed a core part of life. And I appreciate the emphasis on learning - all things are hard at first and then become easier with time ❤️