Increasing Positive Connections and Decreasing Negative Connections
We have limitations to what we are doing here. 7 Cups is never going to be perfect. As you all know, 7 Cups is a process of trying things, failing, trying new things, figuring them out, and then making progress. Remarkably, this trial and error process has led us quite far. Im really proud of what weve accomplished. Weve supported millions of people and have undoubtedly made this world a better place.
Constructive and supportive feedback have helped us get to where we are now. We are very open to and thankful for constructive criticism. Weve written extensively about how helpful feedback can be an we also differentiated between process and content.
On that post I wrote:
To begin, when surfacing a problem and providing feedback – think about it in terms of the content and the process. The content is how you describe the problem or concern. Think of this as an objective description of the situation. The process is how you describe it or the tone you make. Think of this as the emotional piece of the description. Is it stated in a warm and helpful manner? Is it stated in a goading manner? Is it stated in an angry manner? (these are all process points).
As a society, we dont really pay attention to process very much. We dont really look at how relational dynamics unfold. If someone subtly insults you, it is kind of breaking the rules to say – ‘hey, that just hurt my feelings (this would be a process comment) Instead, the expected behavior is to just kind of accept it, feel hurt, and then maybe share it with someone else later.
As a result, we are often not very aware of the process that occurs in our relationships. This is even harder in an online venue.
However, as a community, we can make HUGE amounts of progress if we pay attention to our process when we collectively problem solve. It could actually end up being our secret weapon.
Here is one quick way to think about this:
1. Identify the problem or concern.
2. Write it out.
3. Ensure youre not framing any personal opinions as concrete facts, making blanket statements or catastrophizing.
4. Ask what are the emotions that Im evoking with this feedback?
5. Ask yourself – how would I feel if someone wrote this to me?
6. If you feel good about it, then post it. If you dont feel good about it, then revise it so that you would feel good about it.
Examples:
✕ The rain sucks. Everyone hates it and we are all going to get flooded.
✔ I dont like it when it rains. I am worried it might flood.
✕ Nobody ever listens to me and its pointless for any of us to say anything.
✔ I feel like people arent hearing what Im saying and I find that frustrating.
We are going to require people practice these respectful rules when posting moving forward. Think of our forum/community a little bit like a party. You might have 100 people at the party. If 1 person is being loud, negative, and insulting, then they can ruin the party for everybody else. That is what we want to avoid here.
Weve been getting reports that some posts are negatively impacting others. If we were in a real life group setting, then wed simply take the person aside, hear them, and problem solve with them. Because we are on the Web and not in real life we need a different model.
The first step is to ask everyone to follow the above process. If not, and a person posts an insulting, overly negative or harmful post, then well delete it and then email you directly to discuss.
I also wrote quite a bit about harmful people in Chapter 6 of the book. You can find it here.
How do you determine if you should let a person into your peer group?
People have their own weather systems. They bring their weather into your world. If your disposition is normally sunny and 70, yet every time Stacy comes around it become dark and rainy, then know the gray clouds have nothing to do with you. They are coming from Stacy. When you meet a new person, simply allow yourself to get a feel for their weather. If you like it, then let them into your network. If you dont like it, then dont let them in. Dont increase the size of that persons circle by spending more time with them.
We have also spelled out much of this in our community guidelines.
All of this leads us to where we are now. Recently, weve been hearing more ‘feedback that is really just meant to inflame things. These types of inflammatory processes use up valuable resources in ways that are not actually effective, because the people engaging in them do not really want to make 7 cups better.
On the member side, we started removing people who really were not there to get help, but instead just wanted to harass others. The environment immediately became much healthier. We are now transitioning this approach to the listener side. If you find yourself being gratuitously negative or inflammatory, we invite you to reflect on whether or not it is time for you to move on from 7 cups. 7 Cups welcomes anyone, but you have to want to be here. Ask yourself if the things you don't like about 7 Cups outweigh the benefits. If you don't like what you get here, it's harming yourself, and damaging to the community, for you to stay.
For our part, we will let you know if we believe you are being toxic. We will approach you after we have staff consensus that it would be better to have you move on. Well ask you to self-correct. If you cannot self-correct, and the behaviors become damaging to yourself and 7 Cups, then well ask you to leave the community.
Specifically, this process will look like this:
Alert you that one of your posts is not inline with these guidelines, delete it and ask you to reframe it in the appropriate way.
If you are unable, we will ask you to take a 2 week self-care break.
If this process repeats itself, we will ask you to step away from the community.
The vast majority - 99.9% of people - do not behave in this way. In fact, many people are actually quite happy with 7 Cups and we are delighted with 99.9% of you! Recent survey data is captured here and suggests 93% of listeners enjoy listening to members and 80% of members feel 7 Cups has helped them. The loud few would have you believe that things are much more negative. We are no longer in a position where we can continue to invest so heavily in so few. It is not good for them and it is not good for our community.
It is time for us to close this chapter. Lets turn to a new page, start a new chapter, and get back to fulfilling our mission.
Onward and upward!
Thanks @Glen for this amazingly informative and descriptive post! I believe in being part of the solution rathen that the problem, and the best way to react to things that hurt us is to be assertive about it. We cannot control how others react, we cannot control how they are going to interprete what happens but we can control what we do, we can control what we say. Our powers lays within how we carry ourselves and how we interact with our peers.
Taking a clear stance and being willing to be honest with one another in a way that respects our goals and values is a great thing. Thank you for taking the time to spell this out!
@GlenM
thankyou for the message
@ZaraSmiles @RebeccaEmily -- maybe others I've missed, I just happened to see your responses
I think what @GlenM and @Jake are getting at is there are occasionally feedback posts that don't focus on constructive problem solving, instead lashing out at specific people or writing off the whole site or a specific group of people.
It is perfectly okay to point out issues with the intention of coming to a collective solution that is beneficial for everyone.
It is not okay to say "it is 7 Cups' fault that I am unhappy" "7 Cups sucks" "No one should ever come here for help ever again" "I want every moderator to be stripped of their badges until I become a moderator"
As far as toxic behaviour goes... I think we all have a slightly different idea of what that actually is -- but you can pm me if you're curious as to what my thoughts are on that subject.
I might be wrong in what I interpreted as their intentions or the intention of this entire post - but I believe the goal is to shift from "problem problem shut down the site this site sucks" to "problem solution let's make this site better"
@Jake
Thank you for being so clear. I wholeheartedly agree with you and wish to expand on two points. You know, the last few weeks have been a bit rough around here. And a few days ago, I saw someone refer to the environment as toxic. My initial reaction was: Oh! Not toxic...toxic is such a harsh word. In fact, I even spent time trying to convince Iara not to use the word toxic in one of her posts--the psychologist in me kept saying "these choices people are making may be maladaptive...but not toxic." Well, as this week has continued, I have shifted my views. I now fully believe that the word toxic is appropriate for the shift that a small subset of this listener community has taken. And that is now impacting every other listener here. And that simply is not fair.
The other point I want to expand on is the piece about moving on. I was talking on the phone with my baby brother (well, he's 24y, lol) last night. He asked me how things on the site were going and I told him just a bit about all of it. My brother is not a listener (as far as I know! lol) but he occasionally pops onto the site as a member/guest for a bit because he wants to see what I'm so interested in :). And, when I told him that I had actually seen someone's writing that stated 7 Cups had more or less ruined their life, my totally blunt and straightforward brother said--"then why in the world would they stay?" I tried to explain to him that they feel passionate about listening and helping so they are fighting for what they care about. And he asked "but, if it's ruining your life, doesn't that take it to a whole new level...I mean, it's one thing to be upset about the way something is going...you shake that off...it's another to keep going back day after day to a place that you declare is such a problem in your life." And, he's absolutely right. I had been telling myself that people were still making healthy choices--just being passionate about it. But, I don't think that way after these last few weeks.
I don't feel forced/pressured here--if I don't want to log on for some reason, I simply don't. I don't feel so passionately angry that I want to dig and be negative at everything that goes on. If I disagree with something, I say my piece and I move on. Why? Because it's MY CHOICE. It's my choice to log on here, the attitude I have is my choice, and the level of participation in which I engage is my choice. I alone am responsible for that. And I am comfortable with that. I do not live my life around 7 Cups nor are my moods dictated by 7 Cups. I wanted so badly to try to help fix things--and after this weekend, I've realized that there is no placating or pleasing certain people who are bringing concerns to the table. That was a hard realization for me to make.
I want everyone in this community to be happy. And, if 7 Cups does not contribute to that happiness in your life, I respect that. I am now asking that those who are not happy here respect that many of us are happy....and either work with us to try to keep growing as a community, or find your next big adventure.
Side note: @ZaraSmiles @RebeccaEmily--I hear you. I really do. And I just plain disagree (sorry Zara! *hugs*). There is a time and a place for everything and at this point the community needs us to switch gears. Period.
A few tags: @Jake @GlenM @Roadie @Iara @Heather @Twish @Laura @Lara @KrinktheMellowUnicorn @MelAllyouneedislove @JaceofSpades @MissZ @RebeccaH @Anomolia @MonBon @Luka @Pat @Pam @PolarCat @amazingRea @StandForFreedom @Cristiana33 @PoliteOcean @Dillion @PenguinPower31 @Annie
@Amelia, so what about those who have been dealt with unjustly? Do they not have a right to seek justice and speak out to let others know that they are not alone? Or do they not belong here and should just find their "next big adventure"? Is it fair that @Kane and @Lee had to leave because of some of the negative directions of this site? To quote their words "I find the censorship frightening" and or the words that speak "The higher up I got in the community, the more I saw how unhealthy it was"? Take @RebeccaEmily for example who has done a lot in her time here and to say that if she doesn't work in the same mindset, she should leave, is plainly wrong. (Yo ducky, I'm like your sideman to everything xD) As always, I say this with a lot of respect for you and all you do, but it's a duty to speak out where things are wrong.
@ZaraSmiles have you ever heard the expression "There are two sides to every story." Admin are not in a position to share why or what happens when people leave. I'm not referring to the people you mentioned here, but there are lots of people that we ask to leave the site every day for inappropriate behavior. This can be things like repeated sex chats, racist language, gossip etc. People then come out and say that admin is X, Y, and Z and we are in a position where we basically just have to absorb the punches. The key takeway here - not just for 7 cups - but for every single relationship - just remember, there are always two sides to every story.
And, to be clear, we are big believers in 2nd, and 3rd chances.
@GlenM, I understand that, I do. But if this is a recurring theme, does that not point something out to you? Maybe it's time to listen to listeners too c:
@ZaraSmiles there are many things that are recurring themes. And, believe it or not, I do spend a lot of time listening closely to listeners and this community. I think about it and dream about it 24x7. My heart is in this 100%.
@GlenM, I just thought it would be important to care a ton about listeners' wellbeing. I don't doubt your dedication to this site in the least. I am thankful for what you do, so out of respect, I'll cease this for now.
@ZaraSmiles I do care a ton about listeners! Remember though, caring just isn't quietly accepting things and allowing people to walk on you or others that you care about. Caring is also standing up in respectful manner for yourself and those you love. [Edited by Glen, Apologies to @ZaraSmiles and anyone else for any offense. Some folks let me know I have work to do here. Thanks!]. 7 Cups is high warmth AND high expectations. You need both for a great community. High warmth alone doesn't get you there.
@GlenM, I appreciate you taking out the patronising sentences, I'm glad you are open to feedback from others.
@ZaraSmiles--I hear you and I am opting not to reply because this discussion is not constructive. *hugs*
@Amelia Thanks for sharing this Amelia. I've been consulting with a fair number of mental health professionals and others on this as well. The key takeaway is what you captured: If the person is not happy here, then they need to choose to walk away and move forward with their life.
@Amelia
You dared to ask for my opinion so I'll give it in this case.
This situation isn't new around negative culture. I've seen it on numerous occasions here in fact. I recall prior to the Appreciation Festival last year that the culture was similar negative, just for one example. But things here move in cycles as they do everywhere in life. Sometimes you're ahead and sometimes you're behind. Things here are a little bit like that to which is life.
But I think one of the reasons that threads like these are being created is to put some perspective around things. There is no 'my' side and 'your' side in these issues.. just differing perspectives borne out of different experiences.
I've had some good experiences on this site. I've had some great experiences but I've also had some really bad experiences here as well. Again, that's life, and there is nothing wrong with that in the slightest. Without those challenges, you don't know where you need to grow and, yes, some areas of the site require growth to some degree.
However, change isn't easy and it doesn't happen over night. I do see responses to some of the issues that are being raised which means the concerns that are being raised are honestly being considered. Sometimes that's not going to feel like it's enough, which is a reasonable opinion to hold in some cases, but one step forward is one step forward
Now all of that is not to say that I disagree with the perspectives shared by Kane, FreshLight, and others here. I can completely relate to much, if not all, of what Kane wrote. I don't blame anyone for that but it was good that it aired as an issue, one which I see being taken seriously.
I can understand a lot of the frustration. I feel it also which is a large part of the reason that I stepped back in January through to now. Adding to the angst and negativity here just isn't worth it and wasn't worth it. That doesn't mean that we should lay silent with our thoughts on how the site could improve. Far from it, in fact. But we need to choose what things actually matter and what things don't. And if things really matter then approaching it constructively is far more likely to reach an open-minded audience than frustration.
Sometimes I need to remember that too.
Anyway, Amelia, they're my thoughts.
@Roadie
Thank you so much for your reply! I agree with many things that have been said across these forum threads as well. In fact, I agree with over half of the points brought up by freshLight. However, I think the key word from your resposne is the word constructive. Problem solving with one another--yes!! Making statments that split the community, such as "they" won't censor "us"--yeah, not so much. I feel like there are a number of people involved that are responding to be engaged in drama--this feels counterproductive to me and leads to negativity across the community. Nitpicking people's statements--not cool either. Fighting someone else's fight when you are not directly involved--not really okay either (it's one thing to support someone--it's another to act as if we know the details of what has transpired here when we are not directly involved).
Regarding the constructive/productive appropach to things, I'd like to provide an example from this weekend. I had avoided posting in the forums for the most part. After the one major post that I made, I was contacted by a variety of listeners who wished to share their thoughts but I'll describe just two of those interactions. I tried to describe to each of these individuals some ideas that I had, tried to ask them what their ideas were, and tried to work together to find a solution. This resulted in two very different outcomes: I almost threw my phone while in PMs with the one of the listeners. Every idea I had, every question I asked, every observation I made was wrong. Period. There was no objectivity and no shifting or trying to meet in the middle. Even though I was trying to come up with solutions with them, nothing was good enough. The other listener acknowledged that we saw things differently, did not insist that I see things their way, and proceeded to brainstorm back and forth about ways to improve the site and address their concerns. This is how it should be here--and the I'm going to plant my feet in the ground and not budge, us vs. them attitude is one (note I said one, not the only) thing that is tearing this community apart. A few tags: @ZaraSmiles @GlenM @RebeccaEmily @Laura @Iara @Jake @Anomolia @Pam
@ZaraSmiles
I thought you brought up a good question....what are toxic behaviors? And toxic behaviors is something that I pondered (see my post below) before becoming okay with using this word in this context. When I explain toxic behaviors to people theres a particular article I like. Check it out here if you want more detail about this topic.
The article introduces toxic behaviors and their potential impact: "Lets be honest – weve all acted in toxic, damaging ways at one time or another. None of us are immune to occasional toxic mood swings, but many people are more evolved, balanced and aware, and such occurrences happen only rarely in their lives. Whether your toxic behavior is a common occurrence, or just a once in a blue moon phenomena, its critical for your long-term happiness and success that you are able to recognize when youre behaving negatively, and consciously shift your mindset when necessary."
The article continues and names a number of toxic behaviors--I'll list the ones that stood out to me:
1. Being jealous of others.
2. Taking things too personally (this is big! right now, much of the negativity has taken on an "us vs. them" theme).
3. Acting like you're always a victim.
4. Hoarding pain and loss (this is big too! sometimes it's simply time to move on).
5. Obsessive negative thinking.
6. Lack of emotional self-control.
7. Making superficial judgments about others.
8. Lacking empathy/compassion.
9. Needing constant validation.
Hopefully this helps you some, my dear sweet Zara!! (Side note: at this point, I'm not 100% sure that each post over the last few weeks has been made with good intentions unfortunately.) A few tags: @Laura @GlenM @Iara @Jake @MonBon
@ZaraSmiles--does this help clarify?
I received a tag here but can't see the post that I'm tagged in.(nasty phone things :-))
can the tagger please re tag or pm me? Ta
@Roadie, you are tagged in white in @Amelia's comment that starts like so:
@Jake
Thank you for being so clear.
@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn
Thanks.. one of the downsides of the ever-present mobile device.
I've been hearing that a number of folks have expressed some anxiety or fears to leadership. Like they are worried we are going to ask them to leave. I was concerned about this. I tried to be really clear that the folks we are concerned about are a very small minority and that 99.9% of our community is great. We've only warned a few folks. If you haven't received a message from us, then you are good to go. You should not at all be worried. Iara is about to put up a post on different types unhelpful, negative, and toxic behaviors. And, I'll work on some other examples tomorrow to further flesh things out.
Again, just to be crystal clear, 99.9% of us are solid and in good shape. There are some folks that need to grow. The goal/hope is that some of these folks can come around and learn to behave in a more adaptive way.
I have no doubt that we'll be a lot stronger on the other side of this, but I think it'll be challenging for a bit. That is okay though. Nobody ever said this was going to be easy. We'll grow through this just like we have grown through all of our other challenges.
Wow, I spent quite a long time going over each post in this thread. First of all , I just have this great need to congratulate each of you. Your posts reminds me of a fantastic debate : very informative, sincere , open and the best of all, really polite and respectful. A wonderful example for everyone here in 7 cups to see how a good discussion is carried out : a condusive environment indeed.
It is common for conflicts to arise when we are in a large community but how we solve it and move forward is the most important thing. Sometimes, I find myself rephrasing my responses before I send in my post or during discussions, even chats. It's always good to be a little sensitive about other people's feelings. But that does not mean I am timid or indicisive . I am very outspoken but I also understand , I share my space with a lot of other people and these people have their own opinions and thoughts. I also am aware, there is an etiquette or an invisible line , we abide by, when we interact with each other. Personaly I think , practising Give and Take and Checks and Balances , is a great way to live in a community.
@GlenM
Hi Glen,
I absolutely agree with you. I have had members curse and I continued to care for them, choosing to ignore what can easily be seen as frustration expressed in an inappropriate way. I do not respond in kind, but rather continue responding to the problem and not necessarily the way it was presented. Usually the cursing will stop immediately. If it doesn't, I politely ask them not use that language towards me because I would really like an opportunity to be helpful and listen to them. That, for me, has always worked. There are times when comments can be made without forethought, but when another person responds negatively to the comment, the best things to do are to apologize for accidently offending someone and then if it was a miscommunication, simply clarify. Due to different social and cultural backgrounds, it can be easy to accidently say something that has an entirely different meaning to the recipient. This type of situation can be a learning opportunity if we can humble ourselves by putting our egos aside and asking why what we said was found to be offensive because it was in no way meant that way.
All of this can fall under the statement: Please treat others as you would like to be treated.
@GlenM @Laura @KrinktheMellowUnicorn @Anomalia @MonBon
I have been a big contributor to the forums lately and Ive been watching all posts rather carefully and contributing where I feel I can add value. I am certainly not a fan of posts which are attacking, aggressive and wholly negative. However negative constructive feedback is healthy for business, it is also essential for growth. But growth also requires intellectual honesty whereby we should all be able to share ideas, goals and solutions and also concerns and feelings we have about the community, without fear of retribution. The forum is a powerful way for us to do that and these innocent comments should never be censored. It will most certainly make some people fearful to put forth their comments and ideas which will no doubt stifle growth and knowledge sharing. I can say this with certainty because I feel that way right now and for the forseeable future Ill be contributing nothing more to the forums out of fear of losing my place here in the community.
I was giving a warning yesterday for two comments in the forum which Id like some feedback on because Im confused and saddened that as someone who has done nothing but inject positivity into this community since I arrived nearly a year and half ago, that without so much as a PM the last week to check in with me on some of those concerns, I get an email warning me to be more positive in my interactions based on these 2 comments. Glen, youve mentioned that youd like to problem solve together as a community, this is also a new process, so Im sharing this because I need clarity on the process and I need to know how this falls within the realms of a warning according to your process, and others might find it helpful too.
I was warned for the following 2 comments:
Perhaps Ive grown in a different way and its not the site at all or perhaps it is the complexity of the site with all its different elements but either way, to me, it feels a little like 7cups has lost its soul (in this thread)
- I have not stated anything here as fact
- I have not attacked anyone
- I have used an I feel statement
- I have also provided options as to how it is I feel that way, including that it may be me, and not the site, and that I may have grown in a different away
I feel woefully neglected (in this thread)
- For starters, I never said this, it has been completely misquoted.
- In relation to new listener training and listener self-care what I did say is that: I wont expand on those topics again other than to say I feel they are woefully neglected (since Id expanded on them in another thread)
- I have not stated it as fact and I have not blamed anyone
- In fact I go further in that thread to say Most importantly lets remember that it is not only Glen or Laura or admins responsibility to strengthen this website, to promote responsible behavior, and to build community morale, its up to every single one of us to contribute to a culture that were all proud of.
I wholeheartedly apologise to anyone who felt hurt by the above two statements, and youre welcome to tell me here, but I hope in the context of the rest of my post on those threads and my explanation here you can see that there was no ill-intention and I certainly attacked no-one, I didnt claim anything as fact and I used I feel statements which in this very thread were deemed perfectly acceptable. I felt really awful getting a warning for these posts and I think its important that we refine the process, have some clearer guidelines, and also perhaps have a larger team involved, specifically those I tag above, to make fairer decisions over who gets warned.
@Sam, growth does require honesty [edited by forum teen star RebeccaEmily for containing confidential information]. I was going to talk through those issues and several other more recent items that have come up on my call with you today, but you cancelled. It was my hope that we could work through them. Sadly, that no longer seems likely.
@GlenM It's troubling to me, to see you dismiss Sam's concerns with three lines accusing her of dishonesty. I think that would feel like a disrespectful response from a leader towards any member of the community here, let alone someone who has put as much hard work and dedication into this community as Sam has over the years.
@Michaelmichael I can understand that. The situation is more complicated that it seems. I hope people realize that these decisions are made very carefully, not lightly, and taking into consideration a number of factors - not all of which are made public out of respect to the individuals involved.
@GlenM
Glenn may I ask this
If I were to post this to another member or listener would my ppost be deleted and I get a warning?? I think this also falls under to much info shared. We as listeners try really hard not to disclose to much info here. We did not need to know all this about this person and then out thinking gets are silly.
Again this is a poitive pull up only. Not to knock no one.
@wonderfulolive agreed. I know I'd never be able to get away with saying that, nor would any other listener. It's disappointing that anyone would be so disrespectful, and give such a display of invalidation. However, it is especially hurtful when coming from the leader of the site. This is so discouraging.
@RebeccaEmily
Hi I was in no way trying to point out to anyone of wrong or right, this or that. I was just trying to pull out the fact that many on here see differant views on things. It could be admins or members or guests. We all have them. And to bring it here respectfully and also useing words of not accusing or starting drama.
I too, am not dumb as to what is going on. I CHOOSE to be IN IT or BE IN IT to problem solve and keep drama down. Now please dont mark me as a queen bee here, I to have moments....but latly just focusing on the right battles as parents say to kids.
I know Glen probably meant well here, just maybe a bit to much info for all of us to see. And clarity is a good thing as well.
Sorry if anyone feels my post is on the edge of drama, that isnt what my mission here is.
@Sam, I have your back, like @Michaelmichael has. I hear your frustrations and I am deeply saddened that this happened to you, to someone who has earned only the highest respect from others. When you're back, pop into my PMs, I have a love bomb waiting for you. You're amazing and you do not deserve to feel harshly treated. Your love and enthusiasm is unrivalled and I mean that with every inch of my heart.
I'm also really taken aback by Glen's response to you, dismissing your valid feelings. If I'm honest, I'm losing hope in this place due to things like these but I firmly believe in doing my best to change it.
