Increasing Positive Connections and Decreasing Negative Connections
We have limitations to what we are doing here. 7 Cups is never going to be perfect. As you all know, 7 Cups is a process of trying things, failing, trying new things, figuring them out, and then making progress. Remarkably, this trial and error process has led us quite far. Im really proud of what weve accomplished. Weve supported millions of people and have undoubtedly made this world a better place.
Constructive and supportive feedback have helped us get to where we are now. We are very open to and thankful for constructive criticism. Weve written extensively about how helpful feedback can be an we also differentiated between process and content.
On that post I wrote:
To begin, when surfacing a problem and providing feedback – think about it in terms of the content and the process. The content is how you describe the problem or concern. Think of this as an objective description of the situation. The process is how you describe it or the tone you make. Think of this as the emotional piece of the description. Is it stated in a warm and helpful manner? Is it stated in a goading manner? Is it stated in an angry manner? (these are all process points).
As a society, we dont really pay attention to process very much. We dont really look at how relational dynamics unfold. If someone subtly insults you, it is kind of breaking the rules to say – ‘hey, that just hurt my feelings (this would be a process comment) Instead, the expected behavior is to just kind of accept it, feel hurt, and then maybe share it with someone else later.
As a result, we are often not very aware of the process that occurs in our relationships. This is even harder in an online venue.
However, as a community, we can make HUGE amounts of progress if we pay attention to our process when we collectively problem solve. It could actually end up being our secret weapon.
Here is one quick way to think about this:
1. Identify the problem or concern.
2. Write it out.
3. Ensure youre not framing any personal opinions as concrete facts, making blanket statements or catastrophizing.
4. Ask what are the emotions that Im evoking with this feedback?
5. Ask yourself – how would I feel if someone wrote this to me?
6. If you feel good about it, then post it. If you dont feel good about it, then revise it so that you would feel good about it.
Examples:
✕ The rain sucks. Everyone hates it and we are all going to get flooded.
✔ I dont like it when it rains. I am worried it might flood.
✕ Nobody ever listens to me and its pointless for any of us to say anything.
✔ I feel like people arent hearing what Im saying and I find that frustrating.
We are going to require people practice these respectful rules when posting moving forward. Think of our forum/community a little bit like a party. You might have 100 people at the party. If 1 person is being loud, negative, and insulting, then they can ruin the party for everybody else. That is what we want to avoid here.
Weve been getting reports that some posts are negatively impacting others. If we were in a real life group setting, then wed simply take the person aside, hear them, and problem solve with them. Because we are on the Web and not in real life we need a different model.
The first step is to ask everyone to follow the above process. If not, and a person posts an insulting, overly negative or harmful post, then well delete it and then email you directly to discuss.
I also wrote quite a bit about harmful people in Chapter 6 of the book. You can find it here.
How do you determine if you should let a person into your peer group?
People have their own weather systems. They bring their weather into your world. If your disposition is normally sunny and 70, yet every time Stacy comes around it become dark and rainy, then know the gray clouds have nothing to do with you. They are coming from Stacy. When you meet a new person, simply allow yourself to get a feel for their weather. If you like it, then let them into your network. If you dont like it, then dont let them in. Dont increase the size of that persons circle by spending more time with them.
We have also spelled out much of this in our community guidelines.
All of this leads us to where we are now. Recently, weve been hearing more ‘feedback that is really just meant to inflame things. These types of inflammatory processes use up valuable resources in ways that are not actually effective, because the people engaging in them do not really want to make 7 cups better.
On the member side, we started removing people who really were not there to get help, but instead just wanted to harass others. The environment immediately became much healthier. We are now transitioning this approach to the listener side. If you find yourself being gratuitously negative or inflammatory, we invite you to reflect on whether or not it is time for you to move on from 7 cups. 7 Cups welcomes anyone, but you have to want to be here. Ask yourself if the things you don't like about 7 Cups outweigh the benefits. If you don't like what you get here, it's harming yourself, and damaging to the community, for you to stay.
For our part, we will let you know if we believe you are being toxic. We will approach you after we have staff consensus that it would be better to have you move on. Well ask you to self-correct. If you cannot self-correct, and the behaviors become damaging to yourself and 7 Cups, then well ask you to leave the community.
Specifically, this process will look like this:
Alert you that one of your posts is not inline with these guidelines, delete it and ask you to reframe it in the appropriate way.
If you are unable, we will ask you to take a 2 week self-care break.
If this process repeats itself, we will ask you to step away from the community.
The vast majority - 99.9% of people - do not behave in this way. In fact, many people are actually quite happy with 7 Cups and we are delighted with 99.9% of you! Recent survey data is captured here and suggests 93% of listeners enjoy listening to members and 80% of members feel 7 Cups has helped them. The loud few would have you believe that things are much more negative. We are no longer in a position where we can continue to invest so heavily in so few. It is not good for them and it is not good for our community.
It is time for us to close this chapter. Lets turn to a new page, start a new chapter, and get back to fulfilling our mission.
Onward and upward!
Thanks for clearly outlining this Glen. I look forward to participating in a positive environment!
@GlenM love this post and i love being a listener here and even being a member when i need to take a step back and self care
its helped me find something i really enjoy and find some goals too reach in my life so i thankyou for that my next step is with samaritans to help my local area and that is because of this and guess what i can still fit it in as shifts arent very long each week its 3 hour blocks every week so would most likely be once a week til im fully trained and it takes 1 year yikes id have been here over 1 year by that point :)
yes onward and upward we go love this community
@CaringBrit
Hey there. All the best for working with Samaritans. The NGO is really very amazing and I hope you enjoy being a volunteer/listener there.
@GlenM & @Laura & Community,
I was here for a long time before I realized how bad my mood was getting. I shared my frustrations with the people I looked up to on 7cups. I left because it is not good to bring your problems to work. It is true that AL's don't get paid here, but whether you are writing in the forums or you are in a chat you arw acting on behalf of 7cups. You help reflect the "mission" here when you login. If you feel like crap one day take that day off. I do.
Words Have Emotions.
EX: L: "Hey! How are you?
M: Ok, I guess.
What emotion does the Listener show?
I took time off until I knew my mindset of being selfish was gone.
We all need help. Ask a fellow Listener, Peer Support, or a Mentor for a chat.
Hugs,
Donald
@GlenM @Laura
I really like this process. It's clearly outlined so we all know what to expect and I think it will help to contribute to a more positive atmosphere in the forums. Another idea I would like to encourage is that if anyone is writing a post and they are wondering if it meets these guidelines, feel free to double check before clicking "add post". If you don't have anyone who can read over your post first, go ahead and send me a PM. I'm happy to help you before posting. We know that no one is perfect--the idea is to work toward a more positive team-oriented community.
@Amelia 100% I think this is a good idea for folks that are concerned or unaware that they are coming off as inflammatory or overly negative. Yes, we want a safe, positive, and helpful community. That is the goal here and, recently, many have indicated that the level of negativity is too much, so we are working hard to bring back up the level of civility and constructive criticism. The process is pretty clear, but I'm all for evolving it as we learn.
@GlenM
I think that by willing to ask another person to read it, it acknowledges that you feel what you have to say is important but that you may be a bit too emotionally involved to be objective. And that's okay--reach out and let someone else double-check for you :)
@GlenM
Again WOWZERS this thread is a bit overwhelming and I feel lots of thoughts and feelings a bit stressed as well. But its ok.
Glen I have talked with you many of many times,and I know your heart is with 7cups, your intentions are true and this site is like another child to you. And I tell you lots I appreciate all the hard work you put in as well as the other upper people here.
It has been a rough several weeks on here as far as the negativity and many of many good listeners and others leaving here for very good reasons of their own and some that bring up more changes to better 7cups. I too, got a little cocky with another listener due to all this weirdness here.,,,,,,
BUT
Like I said before I too fail and fall and disappoint. The thing I value is accoutability for your actions. That is where true growth and maturity comes from. That and other things like compassionate and loving, patient as well as empathetic. Those all make up a great person for 7cups. It starts with each of us. We need to be accountable for our own actions and words. Well you could use the word AWARE. All this negativity has taken a toll on me as well as many on this site. To many need self care breaks not just a day or two but a week or weeks or longer. Please dont get me wrong, self care breaks are much needed here and are important.
I wanted to try and express how I feel as a listener as well as my other things I do here. I will really watch how I use my words. Please know I mean good will here ok. I find it hard to really connect to someone who will listen to me with an ongoing chat or one that really has been rough. I mean they are there but the same old lines they use. And it sometimes feels like the attitude is Why you a listener if you cant handle this chat. I wish there was more patience with the listeners or more training to really give true 100% 7cups quality. The other things are trolls in the pm they leave so many messeges and very disturbing. We are told to file a report, be patient and we will hear back from them, block but dont ban. Dont get me wrong I love being a listener as well as being involved in several things here. It has really helped me in my environment out here. But sometimes I feel listeners dont really get supported or recognized for all the hard work they put into 7cps. Is there maybe something other then a badge to give those who really stand out and go beyond what is needed here? Just asking
Im all for the negativity to stop. It is like a virus.It is toxic and can and will effect 7cups if not handled right. I would like to be apart of something to be more aware for myself and as well for my members and guests.
Please to anyone who reads this I mean no ill will at all. I appreciate many here and look up to several. I hope I can get involve with something and really join together and make a difference............
@Amelia - I was about to offer the same thing! So, I guess, if Amelia isn't online and you want someone to read it over, feel free to message me.
Also, if you need to just vent and want a venue for that, my PMs are open to you! I'm always more than happy to listen, discuss, hear your vent, and if possible, work towards solutions with you (though if you want to just rant and don't want to do that, I'm okay with it, too...I know that sometimes you just gotta let out the frustration!)
@Anomalia @Amelia - what a kind offer!
@Amelia @GlenM @Laura
I like this idea. This is something that I do myself. Any time I feel like commenting on certain things in the forum I have the post reviewed by someone else first.
I quite like most of this, but I find the examples in the earlier post confusing. I suspect the difficulty is that problem solving can fail in more than one way. One of the ways it can fail is if, at Step 1: "Identify the problem or concern", people are reluctant to confront an objective, shared problem and instead make it seem like a personal matter. They divert attention away from the shared challenge and focus instead on their own feelings:
✔ The roof leaks.
✕ I'm miserable when I'm cold and wet like this.
It seems to me you've put the ✔ and ✕ the other way around.
Real example:
✔ The connection to the 7 Cups server often fails with error "400 Bad Request".
✕ I'm frustrated by having to refresh the screen continually in chats.
I'm sorry to criticize your server, I really am, but as far as I can tell it really does repeatedly say "400 Bad Request". It might turn out that the problem is in my computer, not your server. The only way we'll ever find out is if I share my uncensored observations, not just how I feel. (The issue is being looked into, and it's under discussion in another thread, by the way.)
So I think there's a risk here that if you appear to identify everything that isn't an I-statement as toxic, it could inhibit other uncensored observations about things it would be helpful for the community to confront.
I'm delighted to see the survey data published so quickly to provide an objective backdrop to some of the recent discussions.
@GlenM
@RarelyCharlie We really just want respectful communication. Here would be an example that would be problematic based on your above example:
"Man, another server error! This site is going downhill fast. I can't stand it. Why do I even come to this place?!"
That is the kind of stuff we want to avoid.
Oh brother...
...
...
...
...
<- sums up my feelings pretty well.
@GlenM
Thank you Glenn for this wonderful post. I too, find I can become negative and point out many flaws, which in turn distracts me personally as well as my responsibilities here and my focus is cloudy to help others fully. So readiing this kinda confirmed what has been going on for me.
Yes it is normal for us to all have some sort of expectations here. Whether it be realistic or non. Somethings I know there are big issues here and only admins can change that. And like you said, it is a trial of try it and see the outcome. And some is with the listening side. And some is just being a member.
But for me I see this all only this way... I am me WonderfulOlive. I am human. I can only be focused on me here, really. I do know and see things wrong and also very rewarding things here. But I can only have focus on what my impact here is. Yes I have the power to change things here. ONLY WITH ME. My views, my thoughts, my feelings. I cannot be magical and change anyone or the rules of 7cups.
So for me I will make that change and be more positive when I see complaints or unhappiness. I will stay focused and keep reminding myself of my own vision I have for me here.
@wonderfulolive - Really well said :)
Echoing some of what you've said here, as I feel it's a valuable reminder for everyone: Take what you want from 7 Cups and leave the rest. Before getting involved or helping anyone with anything (online or off), make sure you're saying yes from the heart and not out of any sense of obligation. Doing anything because you feel you have to leads to bad feeling, which helps no one, least of all yourself. There is wisdom in stepping away from anything in life that is no longer serving you.
@Heather
WOWZERS Heather thanks!!!!!!
But I too fall and fail and disappoint and complain. But it starts with me to turn MY outlook on things around. It is no one elses responsibility. And I do love doing things here. Just balencing it all can become tricky. heehee.
This is a really good thread. I do hope things turn around for the better.
I have cautious optimism for the future of this place.
Thank you so much for posting this Glen. Unfortunately, we've struck a time of a lot of negativity and toxic behavior. It's time to take a stand to make 7 Cups the place that it is meant to be.
It is key to note one theme here. If you do not want to be here, you are not obligated to stay here. We need people here who are dedicated to our mission. This means giving feedback, when necessary, that is constructive and respectful. Making feedback posts with a motivation that is anything other than solution-focused is not acceptable.
If you have found yourself posting or thinking of posting these types of unacceptable posts, please ask yourself if you really want to be here. If that answer is no, it's time to move on. I say this bluntly because it's getting to a point where few are creating toxic environments for the large majority who want to be here. As Glen noted, we need to move on as a community from this.
@Jake, I read this with much respect for you, as I've never had anything but the highest respect for you. However, I must respectfully disagree. I hope you don't mind my adding a few pointers but I'd gladly discuss this over PMs. Please take what I say knowing that I only want to share my point of view of things.
"we've struck a time of a lot of negativity and toxic behavior"
What is "toxic" behaviour? Is it that of those listeners who have the guts to speak out when no one else does? Those who so many agree with, those listeners who care so much about 7Cups that they want to point out where things are going off direction? Those listeners who get banned or dismissed for their ideas that are alternative from the main one, like as with the case of @Kane the ambassador? Or is those members who are told to hurt themselves or are unimportant when they need support? Those members who are told to just "oh, file a report, I'm sorry" with little empathy and care? Or does this toxic behaviour actually, possibly, extend to when admins get frustrated and speak without compassion and attack? I guess, due to double standards, it's not. If you look at the 'toxic behaviour' exhbitied by listeners, you see that they aren't mal-intentioned at all. It's clear that they have the same goals as the leaders on the site. However, they just don't agree with the path the leaders have set out to achieve those goals and for some reason, this is labelled as wrong. (Sorry, I took this off you, Becca! All creds to you!) Anyway, the main reason I point this out is because we are all taught to be open-minded on 7Cups. Yet, when someone speaks out of the status quo, we are close-minded? Is this right or just? So, to you, please explain what this "toxic behaviour" is and who it comes from, because I'm not too clear on that anymore.
"We need people here who are dedicated to our mission."
This strikes me as odd. I know you mean well by this statement, but it seems as if you are saying that those who are not dedicated should not be here. So what about those who need self-care time? What about those like @RebeccaEmily who, in her words in the forum, has "personally been attacked and criticized by some mentors, ambassadors and even a CM for needing to step back, for needing to take a break"? Is she not needed on this site? Are people similar to this situation not needed? I'm afraid this point of yours does make me upset as yes, I'm dedicated to this site, but not all the time. I have real life priorities too. Does this mean I'm any less worthy of being a part of this site? Are we not enough, just because we have time for self-care? I choose my life over 7Cups because this is not a replacement for real life (as quoted by @Laura ), but does that mean I can't be a part of it? Do explain this to me, because from this point of view, you're saying you don't need people who aren't dedicated to this mission all the time.
"posting these types of unacceptable posts"
As Becca said below, each of these posts has been made with only good intentions. To improve and better 7Cups, even when they're frustrated. Do they not deserve the empathy and kindness that everyone here (even those who had bad intentions) is entitled to? Or will they get censored?
I'm sorry I had to post this, but I honestly disagree with what you said, sweet Jake. I do this only because I care and only with the highest admiration for you. I'd appreciate learning more from your point of view, I'm open-minded! (@OrunLeon and @RebeccaEmily, you reckon I'll be seeing Chrissy soon? xD)
@ZaraSmiles Please check out what @MonBon has said below and then re-read. MonBon does a nice job clarifying.
@ZaraSmiles
Hey! Thanks for your response. I will answer below for you what my thougths are about the responses you've provided.
1. Toxic behavior is any behavior that is not producing a warm, productive, and welcoming environment. I will not directly cite any posts because that's innapropriate, but any post that gives negative feedback without remaining solution-focused is toxic. This is what brings us down. Not up. @MonBon commented below also on this.
I fail to see the connection between admin actions of any kind and this type of behavior. Posting things that are negative and not solution-focused are not correlated to admin in anyway. That is a personal choice that someone makes.
2. Nope. That's not what I mean. Sorry that you've misunderstood what I said. This has nothing to do with self-care. A dedicated person can still take self-care breaks and all are encouraged to. As I said many many times throghout many posts, calls, messages and the like... self-care is promoted and encouraged.
3. Posts with good intentions should always by solution-focused. Posts that make a list of problems and provide negativity do not belong here.
Please feel free to see @Amelia's post below as well. She spells things out and expands a little on some of my points. :) Thanks for giving your opinion here! I hope you can take this response to heart and think it all over a bit. Feel free to PM me if you want to chat more indepth. Hugs!
I don't mean to cause issues by posting this, but I honestly think this looks an awful lot like censorship. As I've said in a number of threads today, people often mistake innovative ideas for rebellion. However, I think most of these people present their ideas because they want to help improve something; I don't know about you, but I'd consider that to be good intentions. Sometimes these posts come out of frustration and therefore don't have the super friendly, bubbly, almost fabricated language that some listeners choose to speak with. However, should we not still approach those posts with the same empathy and compassion we use throughout the rest of the site? I mean, we now welcome trolls who actually have bad intentions about their time on the site. Shouldn't we be treating everyone with that level of respect then?
@RebeccaEmily, ducky, if you go down, I go down with you because your points are incredibly true and I say this to the site with the best intentions possible. Please do take a look at Becca's post because she has an awful lot of wisdom in her words. I'm sure she'd be open to discussing this with you; we're not looking to upset anyone, but we're looking for a just, safe community.
@RebeccaEmily I agree that what seems like bad ideas can indeed be innovative, but that is an entirely different issue. That isn't what is being addressed here. The challenge with inflammatory language is that it does the opposite of what the person hopes to do. It causes other people pain and that results in people walking away from not walking towards the person. Think about it like an interpersonal fight in a relationship. If one person starts screaming the other person wants to walk away or they instead want to start screaming back and then things start escalating. We want to short circuit that entire process by having respectful, non-violent, communication as a basic rule. We need to get this baked into our culture if we are going to figure this out. Overly negative and language that is meant to rile people up distracts from the real issues. It makes things way more challenging, drains resources, and actually results in LESS progress.
@GlenM
Great points, Glen! :)
@RebeccaEmily, I can totaly understand where you're coming from, but this is not censorship. Nothing is being censored unless it is not productive. Glen writes above on good ways to present constructive feedback. If we all provide constructive feedback in this way and work together to solve problems in a solution-focused manner, we will be much stronger as a whole. That's the ultimate goal. :)
@RebeccaEmily. The last thing we need is this place turning into something like Twitter and having social justice warriors running all over the place. Today was very emotional because we had someone leave who I felt did a lot of work on here. in their thread they said they that the censorship is frightening. Will things get worse? I don't know but some people think so. I mean we even had an administrator publicly apologize. I did not report or flag that administrator so maybe someone else out there saw that they were getting out of line. I do think that things are going to get more strict around here