Internet Safety & Your Role As A 7 Cups Listener

@RocketsMom

I totally agree with you on member-listener relationships, and I also think the vast majority of the site do too, that under NO circumstances should you share your social media in that respect.

Thanks @Laura for clarifying these guidelines. It worries me slightly that people have mentioned on here that it is worth getting a warning for and that is not enough to discourage them. I feel strongly that if you work for any organisation, even voluntary, you are given the workplace guidelines which you follow without question. I am not sure what makes 7cups so different. I work in an industry where these rules are so strict and if you breech them it would cost you your job. You have clear reasons for why this rule is in place and what you are aiming to prevent and achieve, I only hope that people respect it. ❤️

@Sarah this is where I will respectfully disagree.

So much, we are told about how this is our home, and how we should build the community particularly between listeners, so, naturally, we're going to form friendships which are hard to contain on 7 Cups... I also think that if some people are in fear of being banned for whatever reason, they may try and add people on social media as that's the best way to keep up with others if they are, because their friends are just being pulled away from them...

If 7 cups didn't push forward the community sense between listeners so much, I would have less of a problem to be honest...

And yes it is a guideline, but guidelines can be changed, and a simple clause in the ToS would cover 7 Cups' bottom against anyone complaining about offsite problems...

@Mobbsy- You're right - it would be very easy to do the bare minimum to cover ourselves! The thing is,as community managers we reallywant our listeners to be safe.We've seen the aftermath of offsite contact all too many times, and the hurt and upset it can cause. That's not what we want for our listeners, or for our community.

We understand that not everyone will agree withallof our guidelines,allof the time. That's completelynormal and expected.Sometimes we need to agree to disagreeand that'sokay.

this is a poat which i totally agree on. this thing most worries me that most of listeners here who are boys tend to use girls because they are most vaulnerable. i have talked to so many girls who came to me saying that a listener asked for her personal contact and she gave it . it leads to so many problems. it makes me so sad why boys do that

I think t​his is stereotyping the guys on the site a bit if I'm honest, but listeners should realise that under no circumstances do they have to give out their social media info... if someone is persistent, they can also block them...

I think what's important is that people don't feel that they have to, just that they've got a choice to do it if they want...

@mobbsy, they do have a choice. You have a choice. I have said it earlier in this thread that really, you have the opportunity to do anything you want on here really. It's not a question of what you choose to do. It's a question of what the site managers can authorize and what they are willing to assume the risk for. Looking at it from that angle, it really has nothing to do with us listeners at all, but rather the policy that has been laid forth is to protect you yes, but also the site's best interest. If you share your social media, meet off site, and form a friendship, and no one at 7cups finds out, well, that's fine, and I am absolutely sure it's happened here. But if it all goes wrong, well, who's problem is it? If 7cups authorizes such action, it's theirs. Thing is, it's not 7cups job to manage your social media interactions.

Now frankly, I trust that you wouldn't cause much issue if the policy was relaxed; just like I wouldn't cause much issue if thefreewayspeed limit was raised to 80MPH. But they don't make speed limits for safe drivers. They make speed limits with an eye towards the minivan with four bald tires and the mad texter at the wheel.

If we loosened the rules even a little bit, you would be okay, a male, with good judgement. I genuinely believe that. But the young teen? Female? History of abuse? Sexually active? Looking for love and validation? Along with the supposed teen member that, in reality, could be anyone?

Please consider the grave consequences. I deal with this reality regularly as a volunteer. Most say they had no idea it could happen. You thining there is no danger shows how naive you really are. Don't be offended please. Most of the parents we deal with are very naive as well.

Take care, and I hope you can find a way to see this policy is really in your best interest. Thanks!

@Pickle68 - Cheers for responding, down here, and up above, I'm going to respond just down here, if that's ok!

I recognise what you're saying, that there is the risk, and that it would happen to certain listeners... I don't deny that there would probably be problems. However, I think people are making it sound as though you have to share your social media... I reckon that there wouldn't be much more of it flying around actually, just that those who do currently share it, wouldn't be breaking the rules... I'm not going to stand by that, as I have no idea who does share it etc...

Aside from the 16-17 year old side of things, because yeh maybe the risk is too great, and anyway, I'm moving up in a month, so the teen aspect won't apply much longer, I do strongly think that the 18+ side of the site should have the choice...

@mobbsy -But as I said in my posts, as long as they are consenting adults, don't they already have the choice? It would be a bit ridiculous to think it's not happening. But it's not endorsed or facilitated in any way by the managers of this site.

Remember what GlenM and Laura said. They did authorize it at one time and it did not go well. They know what happens. We do not. I trust their judgement. Do you?

@Pickle68

Well, how I read the post is that you will still be punished/warning (unclear whether it's a behavioural report or not)if someone reports you for sharing social media... Personally, I think that's wrong, and if you ask someone if they wanna be friends on Facebook, all that needs is a simple 'No', and nothing further... If they persist, then yeh, report them... I agree, that 7 Cups shouldn't endorse it, but I think neither should they totally forbid it...

No, I don't know all that happens, but yes, I have supported a couple of people who've had problems over social media, so I do know what happens... and it's not so much a question of whether or not I trust their judgement, because if everyone trusted their judgement fully, we'd never have these kinds of decisions... it's just whether or not I agree with this rule... The majority, including the member-listener social media rule, I do strongly agree with.

Well all I can do at this point is wish u luck with your fight to get the rule changed.

I think the thing is though, that not forbidding it opens them up to a ton of legality issues if anything does go wrong. Everyone looks to blame someone and 7cups is going to be who they blame if anyone gets hurt. "well why didn't 7cups protect them?" "what were safety measures involved? oh they just them them do it?" etc etc.

THIS. One of my earlier forages into this site included one of these. In the laters, I am only a listener. This made the population of this lot, no less. Both cases, there was reason why refusing would be bad--

As a listenee, to deny, one would be refusing further help or gratitude for help. This can be remedied as paranoia. But what if one is truly grateful for help and thinks they will get it? The abuser of this granted permission will not help matters.

As a listener, one would be refusing TO help. Maybe I've just been a listener longer thus feel more strongly. However, how is one to deny someone who clearly is asking to be heard? Don't want to be the one who breaches TOS or own sense of safety. Don't want to have a life, quite literally wrought, in my hands. Don't want to deny them of a another presence's embrace. Do I just "suck it up, get a better device, a PC or yunno, just wait ta talk to me"?

Thus I have come up with handles. I don't do social media even privately. I'll give them email depending on the case and work out things from there. The inbox is also independent of others. Have said the rest of that below.

Please comment if you have input. Other than "just refuse." Sorry and thank you.

I've had a chance now to collect some of my thoughts and I want to bring up some good points about what makes the listener-listener ban on social media confusing (a lot of which have been mentioned, and I'm just condensing).

-If we aren't allowed to meet off the site, nor share social media, why do we have meetups? There's a forum dedicated to it.

-Why do we have the Social Soldiers program where someone can easily find me on Twitter/Tumblr/Redditif we aren't suppose to share social media?

I want to bring up again what was suggested earlier in the thread (I can't remember who, I'm sorry!) who said maybe after listeners have been listeners for a certain period of time they can petition 7 Cups to allow them to talk/share info with other listeners who have also met the guidelines.

I also want to just clear up that I absolutely agree with no sharing between listener-members/guests and listener adults-listener teens.

@soulsurfer Was the one to initially suggest it, I took my own spin on it. :)

I totally support this rule being in place. People are saying "couldn't the terms of service just have a disclaimer saying 7 Cups isn't responsible for anything that results from contact outside the site?" But I see that as a bit of a misinterpretation of the reason for the rule. It's not about protecting 7 Cups legally, it's about building the kind of community we want to be a part of.

I've only been a mentor a few months and part of my role is to support listeners in their difficulties with other listeners. What I like about this community is that there are procedures in place to deal with problems like this. In most cases, I can reassure listeners about how they can deal with these issues, we work through it together and the problems are solved.

If this became a community where listeners had a lot of contact outside the site with accounts linked to their personal contact details, I am absolutely convinced this would be a negative step. I wouldn't be able to help those listeners with their difficulties with other listeners in the same way. Not to mention that many listeners have member accounts, and then we would straight away see a lot of issues of listeners and members having contact outside the site (which from what I understand in this thread, we all agree would pose problems).It would open up opportunities for these tensions to happen on a much greater scale, and this negative impact would inevitablyspill over into the site, making it thekind of community that frankly, I wouldn't like to be a part of, quite as much.

What we create here on 7 Cups is a safe space for a caring community, and sometimes we take it for granted how awesome and supportive and encouraging it is here. It doesn't happen by itself - it happens because we all work at it every day, and because we have guidelines in place to protect ourselves as a community.

And when I say "we all", I mean "we all, aslisteners", of course, I'm not talking about mentors here! All of us, as a community.

@Michaelmichael, thank you for clarifying the human side of this. Yes, it's a liability issue as I always hammer, but it's also a human issue as well. We are a community and we must keep everyone safe, even if they feel the rules bind too tightly.

Maybe instead of arguing, the people that have an issue with this go to their local police department and discuss it. I am sure they can clarify the risk, from stalking to sex trafficking. The issue is real and it's considerably more common than you think.

I mean I don't think anyone has been arguing, I think everyone's just having a rather respecful debate actually haha

i wanna share my view on this that it also depends upon the the mindset and the exposure the boys and girls have towards this thing, the westerns probably know and are aware about the consequencies of sharing personal contacts online. this site gives a great opportunity to connect with someone and since we know we can easily lead someone to talk and since most people who comes here feel emotionaly empty and lonely , they agree on to share personal handles,

some countries like mine , where i come from , is less aware about the bad consequenciesof how dangerous this thing is, dating is almost non existing here because of the norms we have and most boys and girls meet over the social media but on site like this, some boys with bad intentions can know they can use it to their advantage,

yesterday i was connected to a guest who said to me that he was here because he was looking for a girl,

i sound probably biased towards girls and astereotype but no doubt i totaly respect those listeners who follow the rules strictly and have good intentions but when i talk to a girl who had shared her media handle with a listener her and now in more trouble than before , makes me sad

its something we should be thinking about

Aaaand, throwing in my two cents here.

Having been on various online communities since I was 11, I have seen a lot of viciousness come from them. It is very common because you only see a screen when you're typing.Harassment, bullying, shaming, and a lot of things do occuron here because it is so easy to let down your normal barriers in an online setting. It doesn't seem like you are hurting a person because you can't see them. The reality is the complete opposite. Being very honest (and I hope the staff don't mind if I'm honest about it), I have experienced the negative side that has been discussed. I can think of a very specific time period where I was harassed and bullied by a couple oflisteners for quite a few months.Offsite contact was part of what contributed to that, unknown to me at the time until itcumulated to an incredibly bad experience that led me to nearly quit.I would have if I didn't have the support system I did here. During this time, itfell into the community, and it was a rather hostile environment for everyone that lasted for quite a while after the entire thing ended. I pride myself in being rather emotionally resilient as conflictis something I've experienced many times before, online and offline, but that was something was difficult for me to handle. I would hate for anyone to go through that.

I've also been on the outside, trying to support others who are going through it which is equally as difficult because there is not much you can do aside from be there to provide the support they need to get through it. These things harm the community in ways we wouldn't think, and I've seen it happen on multiple occasions since my time here. I've known a lot of listeners to leave as a result of it as well because it's more emotionally taxing to be on here when these things are occuring. News travels fast in these kinds of circle, and rumors fly to the point where people take it as fact.

Therefore, I completely understand why this rule is in place for that reason. We expect offline experiences to remain there, but that isn't something that is often done. It's hard to quantify who is and is not "qualified" (for the lack of a better word) to be able to make this boundary in relationshipsso it's hard to determine where to draw the line of what is acceptable and not acceptable.I've seen experienced listeners participate in this kind of hurtful behavior, and I've seen newer listeners participate in it as well. When there was a "You can connect offsite, but keep your drama offsite" period, it..really didn't go well at all, andI know the administration tries their best to find the best possible solution when these things happen. The problem is that it's nearly impossible to mediate if it spills onto the website. It usually ends up hurting everyone in the community.

If we choose to do itanyways, then we choose to take on the responsibility should anything happen.Therefore, if something does happen offsite that spills onto 7cups, we also accept the consequences that follow.

I think what Kane said summed it up better than I did. I was around for that, and it was bad. It hurt a lot of people for months during and afterwards. The situation and the aftermath were really detrimental to everyone, probably from the most involved all the way to the less involved. Drama and escalations can and do happen,so although I know half the people on here want them to not forbid this, and I know I questioned feasibilityin my original post, I understand why they do. It's IMPOSSIBLE for them to handle these crises that happen offline. Everyone can't go to 7cups to fix these issues once they happen. It's like if you had a kid that got in an argument with a friend but it was outside far away from your house at a playground. They come to you saying they had an argument. You can't stop it while it's happening, you can't mediate while it's happening because you aren't there. All you can do is listen and try to help your kid with words only. You can't impose anything on another kid. I don't know if this was a good analogy, but my point is that things can happen, and I know we never think it'll happen to us, but you've all heard the stories.

My point of my original post was that yes I'd like to be able to share social media because I'm 18+, but my other part of it was that maybe it's not a good idea. I shared both sides, and I'm still on the fence about it, but nevertheless it doesn't matter whatmy feelings are.7cups is a company, a new one, and I think sometimes we forget that, but it is. That means it can't afford to have a bunch of negative publicity if something goes wrong, especially because it's new. If they say it's okay, then anything that happens offsite could affect them if it ends up in the news. At least this way, if it does happen, they have officially said they do not allow the sharing of social media, so people acted on their own. We don't have to like all the rules and we don't have to agree with them, but maybe they are there for a reason that has been thought about hard by people. Usually arule is made because of something that has happened before. So I support this rule as a mentor and listener, even if I don't personally 100% agree with it. (Oh, just a note for all those noting how it could be really dangerous and those who want this rule redacted should think more, I totally understand that, I just meant that I think it could be tweaked a little for 18+ if only because they are legal age. Although I understand danger happens to any age.)

Thank youLaura. Very Helpful guidelines.

It's hard for me to resist a good argument thread :)

Here's my two cents if you'll allow me to ramble:

When I first came on this site, I thought this was the dumbest rule ever. We are adults and we're allowed to do what we like. I mean for reals. We're volunteering our time to help improve YOUR site and you're trying to tell us how to conduct our lives off of the site? No.

HOWEVER I then witnessed the aftermath of what happens when people break this rule. I think that most of us are good people with good intentions and we forget that that doesn't mean that everyone will get along. We had a group of some SERIOUSLY quality mentors on this site who all became very close working with each other. They were great people in the community. Valued listeners, leaders, and friends. I've heard numerous stories about what happened and don't know or care to know what actually happened but it got so dirty that EVERYONE involved went to admin and begged for the others to be banned. We lost A LOT of really amazing, positive, and caring people. I'm guessing over a misunderstanding. None of these people were bad people, sometimes things get nasty when we all care so much and can't see eye to eye on how to fix things.It **did** effect the site. It effected morale a LOT and created tensions for listeners like myself who weren't involved and didn't care to be involved.

I think if you look at 7cups from the admin standpoint, it's easier to understand why this rule is put in place. This is just ONE example of how we lost MANY listeners. I've heard many many many many many stories of listeners giving their info to members after a long and very serious relationship develops. It almost always ends poorly. One or the other has to be banned from the site.

Admin doesn't put this rule in place to annoy you. I promise. It's just. . . unfortunately. . . .necessary.

I don't know if we are talking about the same situation, but no matter if they were different ones, it still stands true. Drama can happen IRL and here, and at least if it happens on-site, admin can look into it. I saw someone mentioned further up that it doesn't matter because people can write whatever they want in PMs anyway so how is it different than like skype IM or whatever, but I don't know, I think on-site gives them jurisdiction to look into things.

Hi Laura,

I would like to thank you for your well-written post, and I do have a question regarding social media. Are listeners allowed to follow and contact other listeners on Twitter?

Thank you!

cc @laura

Wasn't there this "take over twitter" movement a while back? Remembering seeing it a few times in dashboard wayy back. Though I didn't join until this year.

I assume this means that offsite communication is okay on handles that are unattached to your actual personal life. ie. things that your family, friends and others in way of associates, might see and or be connected to as well.

As someone said above, honestly, to do any level of communication and further, is one's own responsibility and choice. To condemn the site itself for situations that arose from these decisions is only the person's irresponsibility coming to light. We never know if those offline are as trustworthy as those online and vice versa. A business partner or your own father could decided to run off with all your assets and or half your life. The thing is online, dangerous people can reach you more easily. To single out those to trust and those to be wary of have always been a hit and miss. Off and on the line.

If lending them an ear means to do it offsite, I will. But not without my own boundaries and conditions in place. I am afterall, only another paranoid individual.

Thank you for the reminder.

Thanks a lot for the reminder! Its important for these things to be read again every once in a while, even though I always knows, sometimes you can get carried away by the moment and posts like these are a good reminder to remain on ground.

Hi

*bump* Thank you, Laura. Please, all,check out Laura's post that began this important threadon page 1.

This is very helpful. Thank you so much, @Laura. May I please know how should I respond to a memeber who would like to befriend me? (The member never asked any of my personal information, though)

I consider all of my revisit members friends. Heck, the best way to explain active listening is to ensure you, as a listener, come across as a friend. If the member in question was receptive to you as a friend, you did good!

We can't help someone unless we treat them as our friend, though. We all treat members as our friends but we don't say it out loud. So, I was just scared about my personal information and that's it. Thank you, @Pickle

Personal informaitonrules to not prohibit you from being a good friend here at 7cups to anyone. I am good friends with many members and listeners.

its always a good thing to be somebody's friendTheSciKid . also it depends on what the member or guest means by being a friend, if that member means talking on this site and not outside and dont share your personal contact then sure its a good thing to be that friend and i know many listeners have made many friends here

just make sure you dont talk to them outside this site

Thank you Laura (: very helpful information for someone as me ,being new and all (:

Thank you Laura for providing a safe haven for us here at 7cupsoftea.

Thank you for this post. Great to be reminded of what a safe space this is for everyone that's a part of this community.