25 years married and going downhill by the day
Hello,
Need some advice and opinions.
I am 56 married for 26 yrs, 2 beautiful girls with a husband who does not how to love us. His parents never loved him, held him or hugged him, never said I love you so he does not know how to.
We were married in 1 month, more lust and love and have led a moslty loveless marriaige until now. I got busy with my girls who are now in their 20's and are onto finding their own loves. They were my life, as I had no family where I live. So I think I alienated my husband and he got used to looking after himeself. He is great at doing stuff for us, driving long distance, doing all of my housework, laundry and paying most of our bills, as I have been ill for sometime and unable to work.
I had no family where I live so I wanted to depend on his family, but they did not like him so they abandoned us. I lived through it and managed to sort our lives and succeeded until now. We are now left to deal with each other, and he does not want anything to do with me. Because his family abandoned us I would take it out on him and he did not like that. So held it against me until now when he has spoken up and tells me stuff he has not said for the past 25 years.
It all came to this when he got a new job and has met this lady who was there before him, so she showed him the ropes, etc, and he was grateful to her. But she started calling our home at 1am in the morning just to gossip about their colleagues. I did not know about it coz I used to be asleep. He is a night own while I am an early bird, so we have different sleep patterns.
Something told me all was not right, coz he suddenly changed many things in his life, dressing, putting on perfume, would snipe at me if I asked him simple questions. So I checked our phone bill, and find these 2 have been talking to each other when I or the kids were not home, sometimes in the early hrs of the morning. Then she quit to find another job which would pay more, and he decided to join her, and got the job, only for me to find out that they will be driving 1.5 hrs each way to work a night shift. and then work 8 hrs together. So I put an end to it and he has been sulking ever since.
Tells me he is not having an affair with her, but they gossip about stuff. I heard the way they talk to each other and he does not talk to me like that. I believe he is not but it could lead to one, so I ended it. Ever since he has shut up on me, won't talk much nor tell me stuff. Tells me I should find a life, a job and mind my own business, and he will mind his own.
So I started questioning him, why is he so angry is something bothering him. Then came the truth.
Tells me he is fed up with my yelling, shouting, blaming his family for everything. Tells me he does not want to be intimate ( he has never every held my hand, nor hugged me or the kids, or even held me to comfort me when I fell down many times and ended up in the ER), so I got used to it. The kids actually compensated for it, and we 3 love hugging and holding each other, and I am thankfull they are loving and beautiful kids.
At this point in our lives when we are about to be retired, I want to be comforted, held and loved because that is a person I am, and he is not willing to do so. He says he is not that person and will not change. Even went on to say to find someelse if I want to have sex, coz he does want to have it with me.
I am not saying I am perfect. I can be a Bit8H, but that came from all the anger and non stop 24/7 work I had to put in to bring the kids up alone, while he worked. For some years I also worked and managed to pick them up, bathe them look after them cook for them and take them to school while he did the laundry and housework.
As a person, he is angry ( actually lost a job because the Manager thought he needed anger management) arrogant, not loving, and abuses us in public. I slowly put a shell around me all these years just to survive. But now I don't think I can manage to live in a loveless marraige.
Me as a person, I am laidback, generous, loving, loves a good laugh, loves people, and generally loves the fine things in life. My parents were very liberal and so I sometimes think I am still single, and make decisions without asking him, which I think he can't handle. But the right decisions, and so far there have been no issues.
Until I think (my intuition tells me) this lady is discussing our life with him and telling him, this is what he should say and do. I feel he has met someone he can talk to and find answers to stuff he did not know what do about in the past.
He is not a talker, while I am very chatty, and will keep the conversation going just to get some answers.
I know he did love me at some point, and he does love the kids, But the kids noticed how he treats me and won't and dont want anything to do with him if we leave each other. On a trip to Italy, he and the kids went, he drove them up the wall, and they actually used to leave him and disappear so they could loose him in the crowd. I was sorry for sending them with him, and that he ruined their holiday.
So I am in a fix.
I need your opinions and advice on what my next step should be.
@dove22 Hi! I'm sorry you're having a tough time in your marriage. Sounds like you've raised two great kids, though, so congratulations on that! It sounds like a lot of resentment has built up and calcified on both sides over the years. I can understand that from experience.
His friend is not a constructive part of the equation right now, so I'm glad you've persuaded him to give that a break. It seems like you're asking whether you should continue with the marriage, and it's hard to give advice about that - but both of you have a lot of years left and deserve to be happy, it seems to me. Maybe the fact that he's communicating with you for the first time in 25 years is a good sign - unfortunately it kind of sounds like he's checked out. Do you think there's any way to keep the lines of communication open, to find out if there's anything there to save? Is he willing, perhaps, to seek counseling with you?
@BurkeDevlin
Thanks so much for taking the time to reply. It means a great deal to me.
Yes, I think he has checked out, and felt I never cared about him all these years, so he was used to living like that.
I kept myself busy with the kids - its a lot of work, and so I guess I did not notice how he was maybe hurt in the process. But he has been independent before I met him, so he managed.
I did ask him to stop talking to this lady, and I am hoping he will. She is married with no kids, and I feel she has nothing to do most of the time. So has found him to be her past time to share her daily life. I gather her husband also work night shifts, so they have no life. He did mention he does not talk to her, but from work they both can, and she lives near his work, which is a bummer coz she comes to visit her old pals. Ever since he began this job 6 months ago, his attitude towards us has changed.
He does talk a lot more now, because I am questioning him everyday. We never really had a serious conversation until now, I dont know why. I think I just got used to be treated that way and put a shell around me, my first priority were the kids. But now they are in their 20's they have their own life, though they include me and tell me everything about their lives, which is a bonus for me. I am very frank with them and they even question him on things. So that is a good thing.
My problem is with him not wanting to be intimate with me, do you think he is finding the same elsewhere? I can't tell with him, coz he is very sneaky. Before we got married, he had many relationships where even his close friends did not know about.
For me I need to hug and hold each other like any normal couple, and he is not that type. I am in 2 minds to even continue this marraige. But we have a lot invested in it, and it can be expensive to seperate where I live.
He is also on heart medications, and works night shifts, both of which do not do much in the intimate settings, and is also 10 years older than me. But is active, and very charming to other ladies. That pisses me off, and I start to remember stuff and snipe at him for silly things.
The good thing about this situation right now, is both of us are not yelling and shouting at each other. I told him it was not good for the kids, and we need to get our act together. And he says he has decided not to say too much, coz I fly off the handle too quickly. So for the past 10 days it has been unreal, and very different. I am guessing I do not have all the stuff with the kids etc, and am now much calmer and do not get angry as much. Also I have decided to forgive his family as his mother will be 90 next month and we are meeting his family after at least 6 years all together in one place. I feel much better now that I have decided to forgive him and them. Don't know if it is for my own peace, but yes it has made a difference in my life.
From how he has been for the past few days, I see a big change in him, and he includes me in everything he does, and whereever he goes. I think I am going to take it slow, as this is a huge change for both of us. And I need to change too and feel our marraige is worth saving. As long as he is not seeing anyone else. If I do find out that he is, it will be over between us.
So thank you for replying.
@dove22 Hi! I'm so glad to read that you're feeling hopeful, and that you've seen a little change in him lately. It sounds like you're really making an honest effort, and I applaud you for that. All those things you say you want out of life - love, affection, intimacy - you totally have a right to all of that, and maybe he would like those things too, but is one of those people who can't show it very well? It seems like there are a number of barriers that need to be broken down between you two, and maybe that's started, with you forgiving him and his family (I hope that is a big weight off for you too!).
I thought counseling might help, not to imply there's anything wrong with him (or you!), but just to help you communicate better. It feels like you're both a little 'dug in', and maybe someone else could break the jam a little in a non-judgmental way.
As far as his extracurriculars....hmm. I do know other men, including myself, who are not in the happiest of marriages, but still won't cross that line. So it's not like 'everyone does it' and I certainly wouldn't assume that he is. It could be that he's just getting a little personal validation from that other person and no more. Do you think if you simply asked him, he could look you in the eye and lie about it?
Just a thought, but do you have any common interests or hobbies - even as simple as liking the same TV show - you could re-build a bond around? Maybe things you used to like to do together before you had kids?
I'm really rooting for you, and I hope you'll post here whenever you feel you've something you'd like to say.
Have a great night!
@BurkeDevlin
Just a quick one.
It's 1am and I can't sleep. He's off the next 2 days, so asked him to hold my hand. Says I'm tired and need to sleep. So would not let him sleep. Tells me there is nothing wrong. I just don't want to do anything or be intimate. I'm getting old and just not interested, and maybe need to see a doctor. I don't believe it, coz he keeps himself in shape, excercises every morning, and make sure he's fit. So definitely not feeling the 'Im old' line. There is something he does not want to tell me yet, or can't get himself to say it.
I'm wondering what else I could do to make him just even hold my hand? That is not much to ask. Says why are you forcing me to do so?
Told him, I can't believe what I got myself into. You've f*&ked up my life. No answer. He's a pro at that. Never answers. Asked him do you hate me that much? No answer. Tells me go to sleep, read a romantic novel, or do something else. It's 1am. Sad, Sad, Sad.
I'm going to see a lawyer tomorrow, and find out what I can do.
I don't think he will ever love me or be intimate, he does like our lifestyle, where he gets everything on a platter, so he does not want to rock the boat just yet I think. He's waiting for the rigth time, where I will get so fed up with him and leave him. So he can put the blame on me, that I left him.
What do you think? Is he really tired, or just faking it?
Sorry to be a bother. I'm going crazy with these ups and downs. I thought he being off for the next 2 days would be a change.
Thanks again.
@dove22 Good morning! Sorry about the emotional roller coaster, and don't worry, you're definitely not a bother. I'm happy to read anything you feel you need to get out.
From what you're telling me, I honestly don't think your husband is a bad guy, and it sounds like you don't either, since you honestly seem to want to work it out with him. If I had to guess, I don't think he's disintersted in intimacy per se, but I also don't have any reason to think he's keeping secrets from you. It sounds to me like he may have some pent-up resentment that he has a hard time expressing. You are different - when something's on your mind, you say it, it gets resolved, and then you let it go. It sounds like when something is on his mind, he is not so good at that, but those feelings have to go somewhere, so they sit and smoulder inside - and occasionally come out as bursts of anger. I wish that he could talk to someone about it. (The female co-worker is not a good choice.)
Forgive me if I tread heavily here, but it sounds to me that the two of you have goals and priorities that don't always align, and it also sounds like for most of your marriage, you've mostly had things your way as far as lifestyle and life choices. Is that fair to say? Is it possible that he's having a hard time with being in his mid-sixties and not being able to retire? I would feel frustrated in that situation, too. You've said that you're looking for a job to help out - I would think he would take that very positively and maybe with the kids grown there are ways you can agree to downsize a little bit to take the pressure off of him?
Withholding affection may be his only way of sort-of communicating to you how he feels. Do you know what I mean? Not saying that's healthy, but he's not as good at conversation as you and others are. With regard to the future, maybe it's fair to ask him very frankly if he's given up, so that no one's wasting their time. Is there anything you can do or say to make the next 25 years much better than the first 25 have been? And if he can open up about that, then you can decide if those things fit with your own goals and values.
I'm proud of you for taking a shot to save your marriage. Forgiving his family was a big step for you, and sounds like it can't have been easy. My very best wishes to you all. If you need to vent, always feel free.
@BurkeDevlin
Hope your day goes well.
http://www.drdougweiss.com/blog/intimacy-anorexia/does-your-spouse-have-intimacy-anorexia/
Just wanted to share something I came across on the internet, about people who are ‘Intimacy anorexics'.
Intimacy anorexics do really well at the boyfriend/girlfriend stage, says Dr Weiss. ‘Theyre great at the chase and the capture, but after marriage they shut down and begin to withhold love, sex and attention.
So are you an intimacy anorexic, or married to one? If you can tick five or more of the following, you may have a problem.
BEING BUSY
The first characteristic of an intimacy anorexic is being so busy they have little time for their spouse. Perhaps they travel all the time, are always doing housework, focus on the children or bury themselves in work, or local projects.
BLAMING
When an issue comes up in the marriage, the intimacy anorexic blames the spouse in order to avoid looking flawed or less than perfect.
WITHHOLDING LOVE
‘The intimacy anorexic already knows how the spouse wants to be loved, says Dr Weiss, ‘Otherwise theyd never have managed to get hitched in the first place.
WITHHOLDING PRAISE
‘All of us have positive qualities. Intimacy anorexia, over time, closes this positive vision and tends to focus on the flaws of the spouse, says Dr Weiss. ‘I made his favourite chocolate cake many times and he says nothing, is one example offered by Nancy, wife of an intimacy anorexic. ‘His sister made it once and he praised her all night.
WITHHOLDING SEX
The most obvious behaviour. ‘I have counselled a couple who didnt have sex for 20 years, although they slept in the same bed, says Dr Weiss.
WITHHOLDING EMOTIONS
This means having difficulty sharing feelings, refusing to talk about hopes and thoughts about the relationship.
CRITICISING
An emotional anorexic will indulge in constant low-grade put-downs of the spouse, regularly pointing out their weak points. ‘The intimacy anorexic will be much faster at making a list of whats wrong about their spouse than what is amazing.
MAINTAINING DISTANCE
Anger or silence to push away, punish or control the spouse. Some are able to go weeks without talking to their other half.
MONEY AS A WEAPON
Intimacy anorexics might keep the spouse ignorant of their finances, or keep them short of money. Or, they use it to control their spouse. ‘Their attitude is, I buy you everything, so dont complain about a lack of intimacy, love or sex, says Dr Weiss.
********All of the above seems to be my life for the past 25 years....
Whats particularly damaging about this form of addiction is that the effect on the partner is worse than on the addict themselves, says Dr Weiss.
‘The spouse suffers tremendously — they often gain weight, they lose their self-esteem and they become depressed.
In order not to allow themselves to be destroyed by this behaviour, some spouses adapt to become intimacy anorexic themselves. ‘Either way is really painful.
And to add insult to injury, because the intimacy anorexics behaviour has transformed their spouse into an angry, depressed or insecure individual, the emotional anorexic is then able to play the victim to outsiders, and use it to create still more distance between them and their suffering spouse.
‘I had one female intimacy anorexic client who hadnt had sex with her husband for eight months and couldnt understand why he was so angry. Talk about denial.
If youre unlucky enough to be married to an intimacy anorexic, that doesnt mean your relationship is necessarily doomed. ‘Ive seen couples who havent had sex in ten years and, within six weeks, they were having sex, says Dr Weiss.
*****There's hope for me...LOL
He recommends following a 12-step process similar to that used by Alcoholics Anonymous, and insists on a programme of daily repetition of several key strategies to reintroduce intimacy into the relationship.
‘You need to share two feelings with your spouse every day, pay two compliments and have a spiritual connection, he says.
http://www.drdougweiss.com/blog/intimacy-anorexia/does-your-spouse-have-intimacy-anorexia/
Thanks again.
@dove22 First let me congratulate you (and your husband) for being the only person I know who does not have a cell phone. 
I'm not being the slightest bit sarcastic - my cell phone annoys me and if I could get away with not having one, I wouldn't either. Go you! On a more serious note, it makes me happy to read how well your kids turned out. You should be very proud. I hope that when my kids are adults, I'll have the same kind of relationship with mine.
One interesting thing - I don't really have anyone I'd call a 'friend' in a real sense, but like your husband I tend to enjoy the company of married women in casual social settings, although nothing inappropriate. Certainly none of them call my house at 1AM! I have male acquaintances too but I enjoy a woman's perspective in conversation sometimes, and it's sometimes a more relaxed interaction when there's nothing 'on the table' so to speak. I don't know if I explained that well, but I think you get it.
I also want to say that I am very impressed with your self-reflection lately. I'm glad your husband seems to be calming down and I hope he reacts well and things thaw out. I love how you talk about 'getting back to the person you used to be'. In some ways I need to do that too. I've let a lot of the stress of the past 5-10 years get to me, age me prematurely, and take me away from the person I used to me, who tried very hard to make people's lives better for having known him. I'm growing bitter and it's hard sometimes to imagine rolling that back. So, thanks for the inspiration!
And thanks for the offer, by the way, I may take you up on that and vent to you at some point. It's all such a long story, I would hardly know where to start! Mostly, there's a lot I need to sort out in my head about who I am now and what I want and need for the rest of my life.
Anyway, very interesting article you quoted - I'm sorry that seems to be your situation, but yes, there is hope!
Have a great night! Hugs and best wishes from the USA!
@BurkeDevlin
Good to hear from you.
You are right, for some reason we never got cell phones and I am glad we did not, though of late he was interested in getting one but does not until I say so, because plans are exp where we live.
I hope you find a way to vent here, its helps, and no one will hold it against you. Being bitter does not pay in the long run. My husband is also bitter from how his childhood was, and how his parents treated him and he has yet to get over many of those things. And look what that has done to him. It is good to let things go, and you even feel better after you have written down stuff on how you feel and what you want to say. You can even write an email, and save it not send it. I have reached out to my 100 cousins I have and many have reached out to me and we chat about stuff back and forth, on what goes on in our lives. Feel free to tell me, I can tell you what I see in those situations.
About married women, I am all for them talking to him and drooling over him, I feel proud that they find him charming. But calling home is a no no. And especially calling and talking behind my back. I am very open with who I talk to at home, and will call them in front of the kids and him. One thing I feel is he does not like for me to see him gossip about colleagues, which I do not, and have told him so, and so I think they talked to each other when I was not there. But that can lead to personal stuff, and I am very private about my daily life especially about my kids and what we are upto. And I do not want him sharing things with her. He is very gullible and honest and can unknowingly tell or reveal some of our personal stuff.
I love men too and men love me too, in fact growing up I had only guys as friends, and men are drawn to me everywhere I go, even the grocery store, and I see him get all worked up, if one even looks at me. But I have drawn the line from going beyond conversations. This woman is lonely and thinks she can have a hold over him, just because she showed him the ropes at work, so he says. I am trying not to think about them at all. Looking forward to working again and making new connections soon. Things are looking up, and once I get there, there may be no turning back. I move on very fast, and look to the postive being an optimistic person.
I feel and believe in destiny. It was destiny that we married and if we are not meant to last, we won't. There is someone out there for me.
You are right about the kids, they are a joy and I love them to death. Keeps me going, and they hug me right back when I need to be comforted, every morning and every night. I hope you have the same bond with your kids when they need and want to tell you anything. I am sure they will, from how you have listened to me. I feel like I have not been able to say all these things for so many years.
Don't let stress age you. Talk to someone or just let it go. If you think about something or someone that did bad to you, they don't and aren't even thinking about you or that situation, their lives are moving on. I don't stress over anything, except if my kids are ill. And that has kept me young and healthy, don't look my age.
Just decided to google one day and came upon this site, and started this convo. Glad to have you to listen to me. Though I feel I have rambled on too much about myself. Hope to hear you from you, if I can help you in anyway and am grateful for your ear.
Have a good night. Its the weekend, my daughters birthday tomorrow, and am proud on how she has turned out. Open up and take care. I will help If I can in anyway.
@dove22 Happy Birthday to your daughter (late)! I hope you and your family had a lovely weekend celebration.
I'm 100% with you about private stuff staying private, by the way. I'm a very private person by nature, and that was something my wife and I worked out even before we got married. She can be very free with information with people she trusts (family and friends), whereas I was never comfortable with people I barely knew being aware of some very intimate details about me. So I know what it can be like to have a loose-lipped, trusting spouse.
Thanks for your offer and don't be surprised if I take you up on that at some point. You seem like an easy person to talk to. Right now I'm sort of doing OK but there are times when I sure feel like airing a few things out, so maybe I will do that under the cloak of this alias. You can always post here if you need an ear as well.
Have a great night!
Sorry, just noticed you used present tense when describing his relationship with the friend as though they are still talking - maybe a first step is he agrees to cut her off and you agree to start including him in 'decisions', both of which I think are pretty reasonable?
@BurkeDevlin
Thanks again.
He is not the "seek counseling" type, coz he is one of those that thinks nothing is wrong with him. But he does disect everything I say to him, coz the next day he will do what I say he has not done before.
I am including him in everything I do and am going to hope for the best. I don't know if hope really works, but a change is definitely in the works.
Or if he really checks out, I guess my only option is to find someone who will love me and I can love back. Coz in our old age, all we need is company and unconditional love. All the money and material stuff does not matter if one is in a loveless marraige.
Thank you.
@dove22
Hi, it sounds like you are in a pretty tough spot. You have been married to your husband for quite some time and have beautiful kids together. It also sounds like you are both going through some life transitions- such as childnre moving out and on and retirement. These changes alone can be tough for couples who have worked togehter for years. It also sounds like this other women in your husbands life is creating quite a bit of tension. Have you too considered marital counseling?