25 years married and going downhill by the day
Hello,
Need some advice and opinions.
I am 56 married for 26 yrs, 2 beautiful girls with a husband who does not how to love us. His parents never loved him, held him or hugged him, never said I love you so he does not know how to.
We were married in 1 month, more lust and love and have led a moslty loveless marriaige until now. I got busy with my girls who are now in their 20's and are onto finding their own loves. They were my life, as I had no family where I live. So I think I alienated my husband and he got used to looking after himeself. He is great at doing stuff for us, driving long distance, doing all of my housework, laundry and paying most of our bills, as I have been ill for sometime and unable to work.
I had no family where I live so I wanted to depend on his family, but they did not like him so they abandoned us. I lived through it and managed to sort our lives and succeeded until now. We are now left to deal with each other, and he does not want anything to do with me. Because his family abandoned us I would take it out on him and he did not like that. So held it against me until now when he has spoken up and tells me stuff he has not said for the past 25 years.
It all came to this when he got a new job and has met this lady who was there before him, so she showed him the ropes, etc, and he was grateful to her. But she started calling our home at 1am in the morning just to gossip about their colleagues. I did not know about it coz I used to be asleep. He is a night own while I am an early bird, so we have different sleep patterns.
Something told me all was not right, coz he suddenly changed many things in his life, dressing, putting on perfume, would snipe at me if I asked him simple questions. So I checked our phone bill, and find these 2 have been talking to each other when I or the kids were not home, sometimes in the early hrs of the morning. Then she quit to find another job which would pay more, and he decided to join her, and got the job, only for me to find out that they will be driving 1.5 hrs each way to work a night shift. and then work 8 hrs together. So I put an end to it and he has been sulking ever since.
Tells me he is not having an affair with her, but they gossip about stuff. I heard the way they talk to each other and he does not talk to me like that. I believe he is not but it could lead to one, so I ended it. Ever since he has shut up on me, won't talk much nor tell me stuff. Tells me I should find a life, a job and mind my own business, and he will mind his own.
So I started questioning him, why is he so angry is something bothering him. Then came the truth.
Tells me he is fed up with my yelling, shouting, blaming his family for everything. Tells me he does not want to be intimate ( he has never every held my hand, nor hugged me or the kids, or even held me to comfort me when I fell down many times and ended up in the ER), so I got used to it. The kids actually compensated for it, and we 3 love hugging and holding each other, and I am thankfull they are loving and beautiful kids.
At this point in our lives when we are about to be retired, I want to be comforted, held and loved because that is a person I am, and he is not willing to do so. He says he is not that person and will not change. Even went on to say to find someelse if I want to have sex, coz he does want to have it with me.
I am not saying I am perfect. I can be a Bit8H, but that came from all the anger and non stop 24/7 work I had to put in to bring the kids up alone, while he worked. For some years I also worked and managed to pick them up, bathe them look after them cook for them and take them to school while he did the laundry and housework.
As a person, he is angry ( actually lost a job because the Manager thought he needed anger management) arrogant, not loving, and abuses us in public. I slowly put a shell around me all these years just to survive. But now I don't think I can manage to live in a loveless marraige.
Me as a person, I am laidback, generous, loving, loves a good laugh, loves people, and generally loves the fine things in life. My parents were very liberal and so I sometimes think I am still single, and make decisions without asking him, which I think he can't handle. But the right decisions, and so far there have been no issues.
Until I think (my intuition tells me) this lady is discussing our life with him and telling him, this is what he should say and do. I feel he has met someone he can talk to and find answers to stuff he did not know what do about in the past.
He is not a talker, while I am very chatty, and will keep the conversation going just to get some answers.
I know he did love me at some point, and he does love the kids, But the kids noticed how he treats me and won't and dont want anything to do with him if we leave each other. On a trip to Italy, he and the kids went, he drove them up the wall, and they actually used to leave him and disappear so they could loose him in the crowd. I was sorry for sending them with him, and that he ruined their holiday.
So I am in a fix.
I need your opinions and advice on what my next step should be.
@dove22 Hi! I'm sorry you're having a tough time in your marriage. Sounds like you've raised two great kids, though, so congratulations on that! It sounds like a lot of resentment has built up and calcified on both sides over the years. I can understand that from experience.
His friend is not a constructive part of the equation right now, so I'm glad you've persuaded him to give that a break. It seems like you're asking whether you should continue with the marriage, and it's hard to give advice about that - but both of you have a lot of years left and deserve to be happy, it seems to me. Maybe the fact that he's communicating with you for the first time in 25 years is a good sign - unfortunately it kind of sounds like he's checked out. Do you think there's any way to keep the lines of communication open, to find out if there's anything there to save? Is he willing, perhaps, to seek counseling with you?
@BurkeDevlin
Thanks so much for taking the time to reply. It means a great deal to me.
Yes, I think he has checked out, and felt I never cared about him all these years, so he was used to living like that.
I kept myself busy with the kids - its a lot of work, and so I guess I did not notice how he was maybe hurt in the process. But he has been independent before I met him, so he managed.
I did ask him to stop talking to this lady, and I am hoping he will. She is married with no kids, and I feel she has nothing to do most of the time. So has found him to be her past time to share her daily life. I gather her husband also work night shifts, so they have no life. He did mention he does not talk to her, but from work they both can, and she lives near his work, which is a bummer coz she comes to visit her old pals. Ever since he began this job 6 months ago, his attitude towards us has changed.
He does talk a lot more now, because I am questioning him everyday. We never really had a serious conversation until now, I dont know why. I think I just got used to be treated that way and put a shell around me, my first priority were the kids. But now they are in their 20's they have their own life, though they include me and tell me everything about their lives, which is a bonus for me. I am very frank with them and they even question him on things. So that is a good thing.
My problem is with him not wanting to be intimate with me, do you think he is finding the same elsewhere? I can't tell with him, coz he is very sneaky. Before we got married, he had many relationships where even his close friends did not know about.
For me I need to hug and hold each other like any normal couple, and he is not that type. I am in 2 minds to even continue this marraige. But we have a lot invested in it, and it can be expensive to seperate where I live.
He is also on heart medications, and works night shifts, both of which do not do much in the intimate settings, and is also 10 years older than me. But is active, and very charming to other ladies. That pisses me off, and I start to remember stuff and snipe at him for silly things.
The good thing about this situation right now, is both of us are not yelling and shouting at each other. I told him it was not good for the kids, and we need to get our act together. And he says he has decided not to say too much, coz I fly off the handle too quickly. So for the past 10 days it has been unreal, and very different. I am guessing I do not have all the stuff with the kids etc, and am now much calmer and do not get angry as much. Also I have decided to forgive his family as his mother will be 90 next month and we are meeting his family after at least 6 years all together in one place. I feel much better now that I have decided to forgive him and them. Don't know if it is for my own peace, but yes it has made a difference in my life.
From how he has been for the past few days, I see a big change in him, and he includes me in everything he does, and whereever he goes. I think I am going to take it slow, as this is a huge change for both of us. And I need to change too and feel our marraige is worth saving. As long as he is not seeing anyone else. If I do find out that he is, it will be over between us.
So thank you for replying.
@dove22 Hi! I'm so glad to read that you're feeling hopeful, and that you've seen a little change in him lately. It sounds like you're really making an honest effort, and I applaud you for that. All those things you say you want out of life - love, affection, intimacy - you totally have a right to all of that, and maybe he would like those things too, but is one of those people who can't show it very well? It seems like there are a number of barriers that need to be broken down between you two, and maybe that's started, with you forgiving him and his family (I hope that is a big weight off for you too!).
I thought counseling might help, not to imply there's anything wrong with him (or you!), but just to help you communicate better. It feels like you're both a little 'dug in', and maybe someone else could break the jam a little in a non-judgmental way.
As far as his extracurriculars....hmm. I do know other men, including myself, who are not in the happiest of marriages, but still won't cross that line. So it's not like 'everyone does it' and I certainly wouldn't assume that he is. It could be that he's just getting a little personal validation from that other person and no more. Do you think if you simply asked him, he could look you in the eye and lie about it?
Just a thought, but do you have any common interests or hobbies - even as simple as liking the same TV show - you could re-build a bond around? Maybe things you used to like to do together before you had kids?
I'm really rooting for you, and I hope you'll post here whenever you feel you've something you'd like to say.
Have a great night!
@BurkeDevlin
Just a quick one.
It's 1am and I can't sleep. He's off the next 2 days, so asked him to hold my hand. Says I'm tired and need to sleep. So would not let him sleep. Tells me there is nothing wrong. I just don't want to do anything or be intimate. I'm getting old and just not interested, and maybe need to see a doctor. I don't believe it, coz he keeps himself in shape, excercises every morning, and make sure he's fit. So definitely not feeling the 'Im old' line. There is something he does not want to tell me yet, or can't get himself to say it.
I'm wondering what else I could do to make him just even hold my hand? That is not much to ask. Says why are you forcing me to do so?
Told him, I can't believe what I got myself into. You've f*&ked up my life. No answer. He's a pro at that. Never answers. Asked him do you hate me that much? No answer. Tells me go to sleep, read a romantic novel, or do something else. It's 1am. Sad, Sad, Sad.
I'm going to see a lawyer tomorrow, and find out what I can do.
I don't think he will ever love me or be intimate, he does like our lifestyle, where he gets everything on a platter, so he does not want to rock the boat just yet I think. He's waiting for the rigth time, where I will get so fed up with him and leave him. So he can put the blame on me, that I left him.
What do you think? Is he really tired, or just faking it?
Sorry to be a bother. I'm going crazy with these ups and downs. I thought he being off for the next 2 days would be a change.
Thanks again.
@dove22 Good morning! Sorry about the emotional roller coaster, and don't worry, you're definitely not a bother. I'm happy to read anything you feel you need to get out.
From what you're telling me, I honestly don't think your husband is a bad guy, and it sounds like you don't either, since you honestly seem to want to work it out with him. If I had to guess, I don't think he's disintersted in intimacy per se, but I also don't have any reason to think he's keeping secrets from you. It sounds to me like he may have some pent-up resentment that he has a hard time expressing. You are different - when something's on your mind, you say it, it gets resolved, and then you let it go. It sounds like when something is on his mind, he is not so good at that, but those feelings have to go somewhere, so they sit and smoulder inside - and occasionally come out as bursts of anger. I wish that he could talk to someone about it. (The female co-worker is not a good choice.)
Forgive me if I tread heavily here, but it sounds to me that the two of you have goals and priorities that don't always align, and it also sounds like for most of your marriage, you've mostly had things your way as far as lifestyle and life choices. Is that fair to say? Is it possible that he's having a hard time with being in his mid-sixties and not being able to retire? I would feel frustrated in that situation, too. You've said that you're looking for a job to help out - I would think he would take that very positively and maybe with the kids grown there are ways you can agree to downsize a little bit to take the pressure off of him?
Withholding affection may be his only way of sort-of communicating to you how he feels. Do you know what I mean? Not saying that's healthy, but he's not as good at conversation as you and others are. With regard to the future, maybe it's fair to ask him very frankly if he's given up, so that no one's wasting their time. Is there anything you can do or say to make the next 25 years much better than the first 25 have been? And if he can open up about that, then you can decide if those things fit with your own goals and values.
I'm proud of you for taking a shot to save your marriage. Forgiving his family was a big step for you, and sounds like it can't have been easy. My very best wishes to you all. If you need to vent, always feel free.
@BurkeDevlin
Hey, Thanks a lot, you hit the nail on the head.
He finally said he's tired of working for the past 45 years. That all he wants is to sit by some beach and relax, instead he has to work at this age, and that the burden of our bills (pays all of the bills and our kids too - even thought they work) are too much for him to bear alone. I told him we married late, and if one has kids it is the parents duty to see that they are settled into adulthood and not abandoned. I am hoping things work out jobwise for me and it would help him out too. I realize the burden was huge for him and he did not ever tell me to find a job when I was with the kids and is not like me, who can comprehend and multitask at work so he does have a hard time even working at his job. Though he is very intelligent and has the best work ethic of anyone I have yet to meet.
Yes - he has pent up that anger against his parents who belted him he told me coz he was trouble growing up, and has held that against them and me and I have done the same. The other day I told him I am sure you will take your grudges to your grave. He is a thinker like my 1 girl and I know he rethinks and analizes everything I say or tell him. And so I do see an effort on his side to make sure he does not do stuff I say he has done all these years.
But I feel he is now calmer and told me he has decided not to say anything coz it upsets me to a point I go crazy in front of the kids, and he does not want to hurt the kids. Everytime he is rude or mean to me, I retrieve in my shell and won't come out for a couple of days especially with him. With the kids we are both social, me more than him. His parents ruined any chances of a loving marriage for me.
You are also right in saying he has done everything I wanted all of our marraige. I plan every step of his life. I even manage his gmail account. I'm now realizing I am the problem and definitely need help, before it gets worse. He is generous enough to not want to even look at his gmail account. His thing is to watch movies and TV. He is not tech savvy and we do not own cell phones, just to keep costs down.
Yes I have realized the burden of our bills is too high for him, and am in the process of finding a couple of jobs. My girls now look after themselves, and I've told him to work another couple of years until my 1 daughter does her Masters, and we will be good.
I am hoping he opens up and starts caring for me. Coz even though our life has gotten better and we do not snipe anymore to each other, I don't think I could live the next 20 years without being intimate with my partner - so I am looking to see who I can meet until then I will work towards it and be a good human being. I am very spiritual and pray daily and somehow all goes well in my life, only my relationship with him is in trouble. But that too may change, miracles do happen. So will keep you updated.
It's been a couple of weeks, I can't believe I have not ranted about something or the other. Even my girl who lives at home, is wondering what we both are upto? They were so used to our rants, and I think being a perfectionist and so is he, I was a real Bit*h. We have been on vacations every year and every one has been disastrous. Mostly us sniping at each other for anything and everything. He thinks he is right and I don't give in.
Something just snapped in me this time, and I've decided to change for the better. Those that know me from when younger will be shocked to know what I have turned into and what went on in the past 15+ years in our home. I am not that type. I am funny, I love and am generous with my relationships. My parents used to say I was a perfect child. So do my friends. My 1 girl is a copy of me. Their teachers always told me during their school years, that both were good souls. Greatest compliment. Another person at one of my girls work, told me the other day - "Thank you for giving birth to her". My kids see and have known the real me, but my husband has illtreated me time and again, and I just gave it back to him. Only he never had anyone before tell him back, so he could not handle me. His mother, father and siblings are terrified of him, and never cross his path.
I can't believe I am writing all this in the open, but hey at my age I don't really care who knows. I am going to live the life I want, come what may and know there is someone out there who will accept me for who I am.
I hope you and your family are doing well, and if you want to vent please feel free to do so. I am very good at breaking down things, troubleshooting and solving problems.
Thanks for your replies. You are good listener and sure hit the nail on the head.
Thanks again from Beautiful Ontario - land of 250,000 freshwater lakes.
@BurkeDevlin
I too wish that he could talk to someone about it. and I am hoping that female co-worker disappears from our lives and I is definitely not a good choice.
She is married with no kids and both of them work shifts which can ruin marraiges, so I think they rarely spend time with each other or he has his own guy friends and so she has found refuge in my husband who will listen and chat with any married lady. All of his jobs he had found women to latch onto. I asked him why? why can't you have guy friends?
I am hoping she finds someone at her new job to latch onto and that will be the end of her. In fact I pray for it everyday.
She has stopped calling our home, coz I told him to do so, but I don't know if he speaks with her from work.
Recenly he found out that conversations may be recorded at work, and he is in a panic. I once told him, if you are fooling around you will be caught. I don't have to lift a finger to find out. Which normally happens, they somehow get caught.
Everynow and then I suddenly start thinking about what they may be chatting about and get all anxious. Haven't slept well in the past many weeks. And I am a very good sleeper, nothing bothers me, coz my heart is very honest and pure. Mum always told me so, and she was the same. But this has thrown my life into a spin. I imagine the worst, how they could be meeting near his work, etc. and stuff.
Life can suck, but I am going to believe him when he says he has nothing going on.
Time will tell and he will get caught if he is and then it will be too late.
Coz I have realized I am going to find happiness with or without him. Life is short and I need someone who can love and my girls for who we are.
Thanks for listening. Have a good night.
@BurkeDevlin
Hope your day goes well.
http://www.drdougweiss.com/blog/intimacy-anorexia/does-your-spouse-have-intimacy-anorexia/
Just wanted to share something I came across on the internet, about people who are ‘Intimacy anorexics'.
Intimacy anorexics do really well at the boyfriend/girlfriend stage, says Dr Weiss. ‘Theyre great at the chase and the capture, but after marriage they shut down and begin to withhold love, sex and attention.
So are you an intimacy anorexic, or married to one? If you can tick five or more of the following, you may have a problem.
BEING BUSY
The first characteristic of an intimacy anorexic is being so busy they have little time for their spouse. Perhaps they travel all the time, are always doing housework, focus on the children or bury themselves in work, or local projects.
BLAMING
When an issue comes up in the marriage, the intimacy anorexic blames the spouse in order to avoid looking flawed or less than perfect.
WITHHOLDING LOVE
‘The intimacy anorexic already knows how the spouse wants to be loved, says Dr Weiss, ‘Otherwise theyd never have managed to get hitched in the first place.
WITHHOLDING PRAISE
‘All of us have positive qualities. Intimacy anorexia, over time, closes this positive vision and tends to focus on the flaws of the spouse, says Dr Weiss. ‘I made his favourite chocolate cake many times and he says nothing, is one example offered by Nancy, wife of an intimacy anorexic. ‘His sister made it once and he praised her all night.
WITHHOLDING SEX
The most obvious behaviour. ‘I have counselled a couple who didnt have sex for 20 years, although they slept in the same bed, says Dr Weiss.
WITHHOLDING EMOTIONS
This means having difficulty sharing feelings, refusing to talk about hopes and thoughts about the relationship.
CRITICISING
An emotional anorexic will indulge in constant low-grade put-downs of the spouse, regularly pointing out their weak points. ‘The intimacy anorexic will be much faster at making a list of whats wrong about their spouse than what is amazing.
MAINTAINING DISTANCE
Anger or silence to push away, punish or control the spouse. Some are able to go weeks without talking to their other half.
MONEY AS A WEAPON
Intimacy anorexics might keep the spouse ignorant of their finances, or keep them short of money. Or, they use it to control their spouse. ‘Their attitude is, I buy you everything, so dont complain about a lack of intimacy, love or sex, says Dr Weiss.
********All of the above seems to be my life for the past 25 years....
Whats particularly damaging about this form of addiction is that the effect on the partner is worse than on the addict themselves, says Dr Weiss.
‘The spouse suffers tremendously — they often gain weight, they lose their self-esteem and they become depressed.
In order not to allow themselves to be destroyed by this behaviour, some spouses adapt to become intimacy anorexic themselves. ‘Either way is really painful.
And to add insult to injury, because the intimacy anorexics behaviour has transformed their spouse into an angry, depressed or insecure individual, the emotional anorexic is then able to play the victim to outsiders, and use it to create still more distance between them and their suffering spouse.
‘I had one female intimacy anorexic client who hadnt had sex with her husband for eight months and couldnt understand why he was so angry. Talk about denial.
If youre unlucky enough to be married to an intimacy anorexic, that doesnt mean your relationship is necessarily doomed. ‘Ive seen couples who havent had sex in ten years and, within six weeks, they were having sex, says Dr Weiss.
*****There's hope for me...LOL
He recommends following a 12-step process similar to that used by Alcoholics Anonymous, and insists on a programme of daily repetition of several key strategies to reintroduce intimacy into the relationship.
‘You need to share two feelings with your spouse every day, pay two compliments and have a spiritual connection, he says.
http://www.drdougweiss.com/blog/intimacy-anorexia/does-your-spouse-have-intimacy-anorexia/
Thanks again.
Sorry, just noticed you used present tense when describing his relationship with the friend as though they are still talking - maybe a first step is he agrees to cut her off and you agree to start including him in 'decisions', both of which I think are pretty reasonable?
@BurkeDevlin
Thanks again.
He is not the "seek counseling" type, coz he is one of those that thinks nothing is wrong with him. But he does disect everything I say to him, coz the next day he will do what I say he has not done before.
I am including him in everything I do and am going to hope for the best. I don't know if hope really works, but a change is definitely in the works.
Or if he really checks out, I guess my only option is to find someone who will love me and I can love back. Coz in our old age, all we need is company and unconditional love. All the money and material stuff does not matter if one is in a loveless marraige.
Thank you.
@dove22
Hi, it sounds like you are in a pretty tough spot. You have been married to your husband for quite some time and have beautiful kids together. It also sounds like you are both going through some life transitions- such as childnre moving out and on and retirement. These changes alone can be tough for couples who have worked togehter for years. It also sounds like this other women in your husbands life is creating quite a bit of tension. Have you too considered marital counseling?
