Giving Up - It can be ok CW - death
CW - death suicide, mortality, terminal illness
We often hear don't give up! Don't quit! I think this can actually be unsupportive at times. Giving up on something can be a really difficult choice but it can be the best decision at times. This can be small, or further down in this post you will see this can really be the ultimate choice. Some of this is fairly dark and difficult, so please if not in a mindset to be able to handle this at this time please don't continue reading.
Dealing with serious illness can really change a lot of other life circumstances. I was a grad student when my health really became a huge problem for me. I wanted to finish my program, I fought through it for a long time which in hindsight was making things so much worse but I didn't know at the time what was going on, I ended up on medical leave and was in denial for a while, thinking that I just had to learn to manage things and could return. I wasn't realizing that managing meant a huge lifestyle change, one that grad studies didn't fit into. After being on medical leave for quite a while I finally realized this and quit. It was upsetting but really taking out that trying to work to go back, or that possibility was what I needed.
Going onto the darker stuff. I have seen from family and from my own personal experience giving up on life can be ok too. This doesn't mean I'm in support of suicide in general, and I would hope supports are in place were it's a dignified/supported death and I don't really have the answers about the blurred lines between the 2.
I have seen what end of life can look like, both good and bad. I think most of us would like to have a death like my grandpa's, he was old, in his late 80s, had been dealing with pretty major health issues for a long time. He was still living at home but went to the hospital with pneumonia and even after that was treated he was becoming less and less responsive, sleeping more hours it was difficult to wake him up and one day he couldn't be woken up as he was gone.. He hadn't been in the hospital all that long. My grandma and mother in law on the other hand both were hoping to die, with my mother in law she was being asked about a test, she kept responding she wanted to go which was a bit odd as she was so out of it and didn't seem to understand what was going on. She was put flat on her back for the test and that was it, the realizing by family members later was her stating she wanted to go wasn't about the test, she wanted to go away from the suffering. My grandma had been in a lot of pain for a while, had gone through another surgery and despite the delirium would often ask why god hadn't taken her yet. She did have a good day and passed in her sleep but if I could talk to her I think she would have been content if she had died a year earlier. My husband's grandma ensured she had the death she wanted. Her health had been failing, but she was still at home. I think she could sense things were getting worse, she died 'in her sleep' with her will and other paperwork sitting on her kitchen table. Considering the prescriptions she had I am pretty confident this was an active choice, and I understand and is not the current route I would encourage now, but the laws have also changed.
For me personally, I was told in 2019 that I had metastatic cancer, and it was bad. They didn't even know where the cancer had started because where the tumours were first visualized is not where a cancer like that would have started. It turns out I have a very rare condition that is (assumed) benign tumours, numerous all within 1 organ. I was literally told to have no hope it was something other than terminal cancer. I was not in a state of giving up right then, I didn't have details yet. That weekend I went to my nephew's birthday party suspecting it was a good chance it would be the last I would see. I had the conversation with my husband about how I would not be going down fighting just to suffer a bit longer. I wasn't going to say no to all treatment, but considering my health conditions I knew a lot of cancer treatment would cause me more pain than usual. I saw that medically assisted death was likely in my future and my husband supported that. Now I have no timeframe, nothing appears to be terminal but I also know that can change at any time. I am monitored as any one of the tumours could become malignant. My overall feelings haven't changed, just the probabilities have. I will be living when I can actually live, I won't extend suffering when the good is no longer also there just to have a longer timeline.
Are these things giving up? I think different people will have different answers. Maybe some will see it as acceptance, or letting go, of welcoming a transition, etc. I think however people choose to frame it is ok. For me with school I still see it as I gave up and it makes me a bit sad to think about it, but I'm also ok with that. If supporting someone I would certainly encourage them to mirror the same language. If someone is viewing a transition don't use the phrase giving up. I think when a loved one is near end of life it can lead to more peaceful last moments if not pushing them to fight for or cling to life. I think telling someone to not give up isn't the support they need if that's not what their decision is going towards.
@AffyAvo
Thank you for sharing your story.
you are correct giving up in most things is viewed wrong in my opinion ...... a person knows what they want to do and fighting it because someone else seems to expect it is empty.
End of life situations i have come to terms that i let the person know it is OK let go ... it happened recently in my family a person with lots of health issues and it was not going to get much better i visited said my goodbye in a way and later that day they passed ........
@AffyAvo
I defo agree lovely..I'm actually very guilty of this on the teens side. Sometimes telling each other not to give up is kinda hurtful. And sometimes we just do end up in crisis mode and want everything to end. And it's a valid feeling ❤️I've been there so many times living in an abusive home.
I think wanting to give up is a complete valid response and like . We should accept people for how they feel and understand their situation before we tell them to "not give up".
It's hard to overcome obstacles in life, we keep falling and coming back up and that's okay ❤️the more we fall the stronger we become.
Bunny
Sometimes giving up is the only option we get given in life. ❤️it's our way of escaping pain and desperation. But I'm sure .. that light will come. And it won't always be as dark as it seems. I'm sure we will find our ways. ❤️
@amiableBunny4016 Thanks for sharing your thoughts here!
When it comes to crises I don't have training, so I don't know the best response. Never give up seems like such a big jump though.
Thinking about issues teens may experience that aren't crisis, say running away, dropping out of school. Maybe rather than never give up a response could be let's slow things down and talk things through. What options have already been explored, are there others? I could see that being appropriate for big and small. And maybe in some situations that answer is still yes.
To be clear too, I do not want anyone to think I am advocating for encouraging following through on crisis thoughts. It is a bit of a tricky conversation, especially because we don't do crisis support here.
@AffyAvo
Thank you for this, I do find ppl don't give this a lot of thought in general. It's one of those things that is always put to a more positive light in this side, when the reality of it can be very different.
I've give up a lot in my life. Some of those things I'm not proud of and should have fought through yes. But some of the times I gave up - one of those times being giving up on everything - have actually ended up making my life better. So there's definitely two sides to this issue, it's not a straight positive line of never giving up.
Support and encouragement are amazing things and I strongly encourage it, but it's sometimes good to view things from different perspectives. It definitely makes you a better supporter in tough times.
@OneErased
I think you are one of the most compassionate people here.
I think many people don't give thought to this because it's an uncomfortable topic. Sitting with the uncomfortable is sometimes worthwhile.
You have given up on a lot, but also persevered for a lot too. I'm glad giving up on everything resulted in such a positive change, and yes I agree, it can be complex at times!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts here ❤️
@AffyAvo A difficult set of realizations, but also as you say, a serenity that comes from accepting our reality, our circumstances. You've been dealt a difficult hand in life, and it's truly our personal discretion to determine if our suffering outweighs our existence.
@AffyAvo
I read it. I'm really sorry for your health problems. And I don't know if someone should fight or embrace the end, I don't have experience at this but I just want you to feel good. <3 <3
@seashell145 Thank you! These days, I feel like I'm living and not just surviving most of the time. Some people do want to fight right to the end, and that's ok. I myself know that could happen for me too, I have been in lifethreatening situations but they seemed (and were!) livable with intervention.
@AffyAvo
I'm really glad you are living and not surviving. I'm so sorry you had to be in life threatening situations, appreciate you working hard to get better. Lots of love <3 <3
@AffyAvo
This is really my third attempt to post this. I have tried to edit phrases so that it will be acceptable to the censors.
So, Affy, first of all, well written post, thoughtful and it certainly led me to many thoughts of my people who are at the end of their lives for various reasons, or who I was graciously offered the opportunity to midwife into their new existence as spirit (or whatever the next level is in your belief system, whether it be a new existence as a reincarnated being, or a corpse under the earth being turned into fertile ground, or a Soul at One with our Heavenly Father and Son and Holy Spirit).
It’s what you believe that matters.
My point is that in each of these lives, there was a point where there was a fighting, a clinging, a "keeping on" as it were.
And then, sometimes in waves, or moments of realization, there was more of an "acceptance" that this was going to be a next stage and that it might be ok.
The closest in heart people I tended to as a doula for their transition were my dad and mom, both who lived in my house with my husband and our two adult children (the adult children were mostly out and about doing their own things). And our dog.
One dog died. She was beloved to all of us, having been with us while my children were little, and growing up with them, finally moving with me and my husband to help my aging parents.
My dad walked with his walker, his frail and beautiful self, to the grave we made for the dog under the Linden tree, where we had a proper burial and prayers and saying words for our dear pup we had since she was a puppy.
Even this small ritual, and my dad's participation in it (he was on Hospice care at the time), indicated to me that he was starting to accept, even though he was a fighter, and he would fight for his life, against all odds, through a war, through bombing near his head, through being forcibly placed in a displaced persons camp, through changing his identity to be able to immigrate, through clawing his way up.
But at the end, when I tearfully said to him, "Dad, I don't want you to die," he said back, very wisely I thought, "Don't worry. All is love." I embraced him so much and I held his strong hands for hours during those days, and he only died when I left the room briefly to take a phone call from a brother.
Anyway, that is just one little story.
I'm old relative to the average age here on 7 cups, so I have many stories. But it's ok, whatever you are feeling and however you choose to hold on and let go. We are, each of us, all a part of this great Circle of Life.
Affy Avo, I embrace you as a friend, since I know you're going through this conflict and turmoil and suffering right now, but I would like to remind you of my dad's words that "all is love."
And it will be ok. And living is ok, too. Let’s be alive for as long as we can.
@VioletVeritas Thank you so much for this. I read it a while ago, and a few times since and had trouble coming up with an appropriate response.
Seeing our loved ones go can be so difficult, but I think it helps to know they were accepting of it. All is love, I really like that.
And yes, I am for embracing living too!
I admire your courage and bravery, firstly for your own personal journey and secondly for being so willing to discuss a topic that many still feel is taboo. But how can it be ? We live and we eventually die, hiding from it won't make one bit of difference. But discussing it will make a whole world of difference. It helps alleviate the fear by being honest. As my dad lay dying in hospital, he would often say, that he knew he was dying. If i'd lied to him and said , No you're not, i would have been invalidating his feelings, and his truth. He needed to discuss it and i would hold his hand and repeatedly tell him how very much he was loved.
Since my beloved soulmate died i have wanted to follow him. He passed suddenly and the shock was immense. Since then i have played fast and loose with my own health, simply because i want to be with him. I now have an advanced directive in place, so that when anything does happen to me, legally i cannot be resucitated or medically intervened in any way, apart from pain relief. It has given me so much peace of mind because when it is my time i want to go and given the respect to go. I have made my wishes clear and if i went tomorrow i would have no fear. Honestly, i would welcome it.
It is a difficult topic but one that we need to engage in for our own personal well being and to help society as a whole grow and be more empathic.
@sooty41 Yes, I think the taboo of death should be removed. It's a difficult topic, but that is ok.
I'm sure your Dad really welcomed having you there. I think that's a wonderful gift to give.
I'm really sorry for the loss of your soulmate. I really don't know how I would manage without my husband. I hope you are able to find some joy in life with that time you do have.
@AffyAvo
Thank you for such kind words. We all have to make the most of the situations we find ourselves in.
And that is not easy by any means.
