a question

@slowdecline48 Hi there. you would really be interested in the debates of the existence of free will. Some philosophers think that it is in fact a fallacy, while others think it is based off of determinism, and then some also think that things simply happen as they come. No matter what you think, people end up on this site by accident, or that they are looking for human connection or something more. I believe things in life simply happen, which may or may not be random, but all-in-all, the environment can shape us, which would be an act of determinism, but still, things do not happen for a reason unless it is meant to be :)

Ethan

@sincerePlane4053 Thank you, Ethan. I appreciate the response.

I've looked at such debates here & there, mostly on Reddit (r/askphilosophy) & the occasional position paper. It seems like most of today's philosophers play language games a lot, with complex jargon that you need a philosophy degree to understand (though I get the gist of it more often than not). Personally I tend toward soft determinism with limited room for human volition. But I posted the question here specifically for Cupsians: suffering people who grapple with real problems instead of sitting inside an ivory tower while dealing in pure abstraction.

@slowdecline48 Hi there. Yes, you are correct, most philosophers do use a lot of jargon to try and get their point across. Try reading 'Elbow Room' by Daniel Dennett. I took this course about the existence of free will during my undergraduate, and while it was a hard class, you will get accustomed to the language if you stick with it. Daniel Dennett is also a soft determinist, but does also believe things in life simply happen and that there is no specific reason for it. He gives wonderful examples and is easy to follow along with. 

Yes, I do also agree that some philosophers do think too existentially about these issues, and while coming to this platform of 7cups may provide you a varying outlook and perspective, most people on here will not be able to identify with your question without previous education on the subject. Reddit is a good place to get some ideas and information, but try looking up wikipedia information and reading about the topics that interest you that way.

Most people who come to this website are experiencing great bouts of avolition... this is another topic about the free will debate where if people want to change, are they born with the ability to do so or must they acquire it? So if someone comes to 7cups by their own free will, did they do it because they had the capacity to do so or was it because they were guided to this path?

Good thoughts, lets keep up the convo... I will try to provide links to any other resources I can think of.

Ethan

@slowdecline48 I guess I also misread your response... just because i talk about the debates of philosophy, does not mean that I do not understand what it means to have real problems and challenges too! Some people can identify with these struggles. I have been a member on 7cups for about 4 years now and I am also a listener when the time arises. Since you are looking for a more human response, I suppose this is the site to do it.

Ethan

@sincerePlane4053 Am not sure if you "misread" my response, exactly...I gotta say your answers are terrific so far. Your point about prior education being necessary to deal with my original post is a great one--& a point I hadn't thought of. D'oh! *Homer Simpson moment*

@sincerePlane4053 Thank you for the tip...will try to pick up a copy of Elbow Room sometime this week. It sounds like a book I'd hang onto. (That's saying something since I've been slowly reducing my personal library, lately)

"Great bouts of avolition"...an interesting way to put the basic problem. A lack of control over one's life is not the best for physical or mental well-being; a lack of control over one's mind makes everything even worse.

How much of a role do you think one's outlook on life plays in these matters? In my case chronic depression has been one of my issues for a very long time. It is partly hereditary, but I also try to always see the world as it is (or get as close to that as I can), as opposed to how I would like it to be. This perspective has led me to an ingrained pessimism, & occasionally a sense of nihilism.

@slowdecline48 I've been here because someone several years ago recommended this site to me, so I took her recommendation and have been here ever since. Does that mean I think this site is good? no. it's very rare to come in contact with a good listener, BUT I will say it is useful when u need to talk to someone anytime

@amusingWest5360 Thanks for answering. I appreciate it.

@amusingWest5360 Also, no website (or real-life community or organization) is perfect...none that I've seen so far, anyhow.

I hear that. It may be true for quite a few of us....I was seriously depressed for a few reasons when I found Cups through an online search. Even so, I didn't cause all of my own problems. Sometimes 💩 just happens, ya know?

@slowdecline48

So, I think this is an excellent question. It gets to many philosophical inquiries like the difference between free will, agency and fate.

I landed on 7 cups because our son was in distress and it didn’t seem like there was any real help out there. I went to NAMI (National Alliance for Mental Illness) and at that time (years ago) they had an online support group. What I needed at the time was to reach out to some other parents and maybe hear some ideas from them. It seemed to me like there was a dearth of real help and information online.

Someone on the NAMI support chat sent me here. I went to a Sharing Circle and it was down hill all the way since then. Sharing in the Sharing Circles (at the time I joined, they were only held four times a day, and they were always facilitated) helped me to clarify my direction in life and helped me to be a better support for our son (who is now thriving).

I quickly decided I also wanted to “listen.” 

Since then, I also took the training for and became a Crisis Counselor. I find that to be very rewarding, talking people off whatever edge they are on. I found that I learned a lot about myself through this work, especially finding out that most people truly just want to be heard. Only about one percent of people who call crisis lines are really determined to end their own lives, and at least with the crisis lines, they can send local help and try to intercede with real people and in real time. So, that work has been rewarding in that I truly feel I’m “saving lives.” 

Yes, 7 cups has its flaws, but in general, if a person doesn’t care to be on video, it’s a good venue. I also find the international perspectives refreshing. I’m not always feeling that capable of helping because I don’t know laws in all countries, but feelings have no laws, and supporting someone in what they are feeling knows no boundaries. 

Sometimes I feel like my role is to tell people that if they are in crisis, they Deserve to have proper counseling and a person who truly will stay with them through their crisis, which 7 cups Listeners cannot do, or at least they don’t have the training to do. Some people on the crisis lines, I will talk with them for hours until they can get to even a slightly better place, even though the guidelines are to try to wrap up any convo within an hour. I have found that the other Counselors also are a great support structure. They have all fallen into this work for various reasons, mostly because they themselves were struggling mightily at one point, or because they have an experience of someone close to them struggling terribly or deciding to take their own life. 

So, my answer on free will or choice is that yes, it was free will that I approached and established a relationship with 7 cups. I have also stayed in spite of some of my suggestions for back up for Listeners not coming to fruition, and some directions (as in bot support) being contrary to my instincts for what might work for a person in distress. But I stick in there, because I still believe at its essence, the thought of listening being powerful is a good concept.

I hope this at least touches on your initial question, and I will say that I am happy to discuss matters like this at any time.

Keep on being yourself.

Kindly,

Patience

@PatienceImpatiens That's quite a story!

This is off-topic but I checked your profile...am sorry about your loss. There is no truer friend on this earth than a good dog.

@slowdecline48

Our dog was our best friend. Thank you for your condolences. It’s been one week now. I’m still ripped up about it, but getting through.

@slowdecline48

I joined because my problems brought me here. During 2022, I was really depressed and didn’t feel like I could trust anyone in my life, so I turned to online to try and find a site that could help. I eventually found a site called muttr that was incredibly helpful. I would use muttr anonymously whenever I was too overwhelmed with emotion. One day, muttr shut down (it’s still shut down :( ), and I didn’t know what to do since I relied on it so much. I was able to last a while without it, but eventually needed a different out. That’s when i discovered 7cups and now I’m here. It’s much more wholesome here than it was at muttr 😅

@littleStrawberries1840 I see. This points out the generation gap: until now, I wasn't aware that muttr had existed. 😂 Are there any similar apps out there?

@slowdecline48

there’s a site called ventscape that works pretty well. It’s a little confusing at times, but works for venting your feelings

@slowdecline48 hello

Holá, Ansh

@slowdecline48 I think this is a very interesting question

At 7 Cups we have this saying that "The Problem Is the Path". I feel we're all here for many reasons. it probably all started with a "problem" which turned into a seedling to influence the development of this site - for Glen, the problem identified was there not being an easy way to share what's on your mind, although listening was so helpful. 

The problem I identified was partially that I needed a community that shared common values or passions. I was googling for "psychology internships" as a first year undergraduate in a country that felt unfamiliar and those around me not sharing my interests. I explored the concept of 7 Cups for just a few days before deciding to join in: I joined the internship program and took active listening seriously/regularly, I became a forum worm, I took on leadership roles. I had found my people. 

I feel this is also the right conversation to say that the path is the path of wellbeing - we might have all come in due to a problem, but we decided to join a place where we can all grow together. 

@SoulfullyAButterfly

Yes, and through the years, I have witnessed so much growth, not just my personal growth, but that of peers. It’s a great support for long term progress and mental well being.

@slowdecline48 Do scientists and philosophers choose to torture themselves with mind bending concepts or is it just their fate? We are heavily influenced by external and internal forces beyond which we have free will. That’s my theory and I’m sticking to it 😂

@PineTreeTree

"Do scientists and philosophers choose to torture themselves with mind bending concepts or is it just their fate?"

Yes. 😎

hello @slowdecline48, I was drawn to this site because I was on here years ago and remembered it while looking for resources. I recently had my first panic attack which skyrocketed my anxiety and depression.

As to the question of free will, free will is 100% a real thing and is what led to the fall of man. God created us with a free will because He wants us to choose to follow, trust, and praise Him. He chooses to love us and He desires to bring us to our home with Him in heaven but only someone with, hint hint, free will can choose to accept the gift He offers by sending His only Son to die for us. <3

The fall of man can be found in Genesis 1; the other verse i can reference is John 3:16

@AsterLight2024 Okay, thanks. I was waiting for someone to represent the religious standpoint. 👌

@slowdecline48 I'll do some more research and try to either repost on this thread or make a separate post about free will

Honestly, I’m tired of the problems I’ve been facing. I’m completely worn out. So, I’m not really here (at this time) for feedback or support, but using it more as a platform to write down my emotions. I should probably be in counseling, but I’m too exhausted to talk. I hope one day things improve and that I’m not just mentally done from here moving forward…😊

@Olive1Q82

Dear Olive,

This is an okay place to write these things. Some people start threads where we write down our thoughts and if you were to start something like this you can even say whether you want people to write something or if you want it just for you.

Love and Courage,

Patience

@billdan1958

“In the olden days?"

@PatienceImpatiens I suppose. Back when I thought I knew something and tried to make other people think the same thing. 

@billdan1958 Okay then, what term would you suggest in its place? Please, share with us.

@billdan1958 You put up that kind of response & then accuse me of "hostility"? 😆 ..."pot, meet kettle."

Also - let the record show how you rip my original post without providing anything else. But that's not unusual; for many people, it is far easier to criticize something than to come up with their own stuff.

Would you consider Bill's comments here constructive, @PatienceImpatiens?

Dear Slow Decline,

Well, they pulled two words out of your well written thoughtful essay, so that doesn’t give me much to work with, and as Pope Francis (caveat: I am not Catholic) said during his lovely meeting with trans sex workers of Italy, to whom he also provided food, vaccinations and mother material and spiritual help: “Who am I to judge?”

I’m also not fond of throwing stones from glass houses and all that other stuff, peace loving here.

I usually let some comments roll off my very broad shoulders like little droplets of water on teflon.

Just let it be (Beatles).

I also know how to use my own words and I find your words interesting to read! Carry on!

Kindly, from one bi-pedal organism to another,

Patience

@PatienceImpatiens It was a comment. Not a well written thoughtful essay. He is a reddit user for Christ's sake. He got angry and reported me and I had my reply removed. Then he begins screaming to others, asking them if I am contributing or not. Contributing to... what? 

@slowdecline48 Haha. I see. Gathering the villagers with torches now are we? Interesting how in forum thread like this if you infer someone is hostile what do they do? Immediately react with hostility. Now is that any way for a "bipedal organism" to react? 

@billdan1958

How antiquated and may I say “Shrek-like” and I mean that kindly of course, being a fan of the original plus the sequels..

Seems like you want to probe further.

Sadly, yoou won’t find anything nefarious!

Just normal or normalish people, minding our own business!

Love and courage!

@PatienceImpatiens I never watched Shrek. Anyway, all is good here. Live Long And Prosper Earthman. 

@billdan1958

May the fourth be with you!

Kindly,

Patience

@billdan1958 A strawman of my question to another member, on top of the earlier thinly veiled ad hominem. Also a false statement (I don't use Reddit, or even have an account)...all from someone registered as a Listener. Wow. Have a good one, bill.

Also, I didn't report you.