Glen's Legacy and What we Can Learn From His Example!
Hey everyone! For those of you who haven't seen yet, @glenM who is the founder and ceo of 7 Cups has recently delivered a speech titled Creating Pathways To Better Mental Health in an Americares conference. For me, it really put into perspective a lot of things that have been going on lately here onsite, as well as offsite.
Watching his speech, I was able to get a better understanding of the kind of man Glen is. When faced with a problem he was able to turn to his spouse and get the compassion and support that he needed. After pondering on the experience later, he thought about how beneficial a simple listening ear was for him, and how helpful it was for him. He wished that every person- regardless of language, country, or financial situation would be able to access that support. After thinking further on the topic, the basic idea of the 7 Cups we know today started forming. Glen would then spend the next seven or so years building the community that so many of us all around the world now call home.
It takes a special kind of person to be faced with a problem and be supported on that- and one of the first thoughts after the matter is: how can I make it possible for everyone to be able to access the same support I have available to me? This simple selfless epiphany is what jump started the community that has now grown to reach 40 million people. That is absolutely incredible! 40 million people helped, 340 thousand listeners, 189 countries, 140 languages. The significance of that data is so often understated.
The kind of person who is faced with a problem, whose first response is how can I help other people who are not as fortunate as me to have support in place and then actually goes out and makes the connections, gathers the funding and carries out the vision of reaching every person on Earth is an incredible person and deserves way more credit then he is given.
I would like to extend a thank you to @GlenM for all of the work he has put into this site. I know I am not alone in saying that if it were not for this site, I don't know where I would be. But one thing I do know is that I would certainly loose a large part of me if I lost this community.
I have grown to befriend many people on this site, and have been able to gain experience and knowledge that I know I would not have been able to gain anywhere else. 7 Cups is truly a place like no other.
Glen and his partners in business have put in the work and persevered through the many obstacles they have been faced with, but now the torch has been passed onto us; all of us. If we are to make this work, we have to apply the same principles that Glen showed when he started 7 Cups. Empathy, compassion, kindness, selflessness, hard work, dedication, perseverance, problem solving, team work, learning from past mistakes, moving forward. Without these things, we are nothing. Without those things, Cups never would have survived the first year of launch.
It is so easy to fall into the trap of false security that we are no longer at risk of failure, especially considering we have helped 40 million people, have 340 thousand listeners, and are in 189 countries listening in 140 different languages. That sounds like a pretty secure community to me, and Im sure it does to many of you as well. But 7 Cups has only survived for so long because of the principles that have been applied to this site since the launch back in August 2013. If we start to lose those principles and core values, we lose this site.
It pains me to say this but the truth of it can no longer be hidden, nor denied. 7 Cups is losing the core values that Glen built the very backbone of this site on. We have users taking advantage of the beautiful community we have created who take advantage of vulnerable people and work to exploit them. We have individuals who are taking advantage of the people who have come to our site seeking refuge from the negativity of the world we live in today. They are working to infiltrate the safe haven we have built with the very negativity the members of our community have come here to escape. We also have listeners who use their position of authority to bully and harass other listeners. These problems are for the most part unavoidable. There will always be individuals who will work to tear down what others have worked so hard building up.
But just like when Glen was faced with the problem of a shortage of volunteers, he communicated and worked together with the community to gather ideas on how best to tackle this problem. And look where we are now! We now have 340 thousand listeners. We can apply communication and working together with the community to solve the problems the site faces today.
Just like when Glen struggled to find the finds to keep 7 Cups running, he again turned to the community to find solutions. He communicated with the volunteers and took into consideration their feedback. Because of this, we are now able to afford a staff of 33 (and growing) who work diligently each day to better our community.
We can learn many things from the history that we share.
- Feedback, communication, and putting into practice the feedback of the community is necessary to keep Cups running.
- Working together is necessary to keep Cups running. Not against each other.
- Teamwork is key in a community as large and diverse as ours.
Glen is such an amazing role model, someone we should all strive to be more like. The empathy to understanding other people's perspective and struggles, the humility needed to ask the community for help, the dedication, perseverance and hard work to keep 7 Cups running, the intelligence to know that the listeners who volunteer their time each and every day are the ones who see 7 cups at a perspective that is vitally needed. The bravery to admit mistakes and learn from them.
@Laura @Zammn @Heather225 @blaze @MayaRoseBird5656 @KarrotCake @jill7cups @Yendi @kanga @River @samar27 @power @arwaS @asthebeesays @blaze @7Cupscommunity @MusicalMagic
I just had the chance to watch this speech. Im not one for watching speeches, typically, so I was hesitant to take the time to watch it. However, this is one of the most incredible speeches I have listened to regarding mental health and overcoming struggles.
I dont think a lot of us truly realizes how much hard work, patience, time and the ability to grow through struggles that 7 Cups truly took to get where we are today. 7 Cups is truly a product of personal struggles benefiting the greater population.
Coming back to this site recently, I learned that 7 Cups knows how to grow. Through partnerships and volunteers, 7 Cups was shaped into such an incredible site. The purpose and its value have always remained the same but it has been pulled in so many incredible directions and has had amazing opportunities to reach more and more people, such as the LA Partnership.
Something that I really love that Glens speech touched and focused on, was communication and the key to success. We always stress that we need open communication to flourish on here and its clear to me, now, that this site has the ability to communicate more than we may in real life. Countless feedback and validation of any idea, regardless of how impossible it may seem, someone listens. Although we sometimes feel ignored by our community management team, this speech helps us reassure that they do listen and take it to grow themselves in the role and the site as a whole.
Once again, this speech was incredibly done and Im so excited to see where this site goes next! Through heartbreak, stress, disappointments, failures, and successes, I am glad the entire admin team can come together with the rest of the community and celebrate another day that 7 Cups was able to support others all because of the idea that everyone deserves a listening ear.
Thank you for sharing, Julia!
@neverendingmusic92 Thank you for sharing this post, especially the video. These just leave me speechless and in awe. 7cups never fails to amaze me, really. I've learned a lot from it, to be honest. I love how the video gives emphasis on what we're striving for, what our main goal is, what the elements we need in order to maintain this type of community. 💙
The main takeway for me is that we need to keep in mind that the problem is the path for us to move forward. I agree that struggling and going through the hardships is very uncomfortable. We always want to succeed but we never want to undergo the process of trying and experimenting because we're afraid to fail. We're shy to ask for help because we don't want to admit to ourselves that we need support.
This just reminds me of what I've read from Mark Manson's book, "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck". He said, "the denial of failure is a failure. Any attempt to escape the negative, to avoid it or quash it or silence it, only backfires." He also talked about how happiness comes from problem solving. "Happiness is a constant work-in-progress because problems are always a work-in-progress -- the solutions to today's problem will lay the foundation of tomorrow's problems and so on." This is synonymous to what Glen mentioned in his video that problems are like levels in video games where you need to face the challenges in order to gain a new skill that will make you succeed in that level and move onto the next.
I'm happy to be a part of this community. I know that this isn't perfect and there were people who have had a not-so-good experience in here. I don't really think that they should be ignored just because they're being "negative". In fact, we have to acknowledge them, hear their thoughts, identify the risks, collaborate with them to think of ways how to solve the problem. Because this is how the community grows --- by facing the problem, asking for feedback and overcoming obstacles. And I know that's what our community management and admin team are trying to accomplish. It's not easy, it takes time but it's going to be worth it.
The admin team also deserves to be appreciated. They may not be the most intelligent, wealthy, skillful persons but they're the most passionate, hardworking and resilient people I know in trying to manage an online community. Often times they get questioned, doubted and attacked because the things they do are behind the scenes. I personally believe that we just need to trust them because they're doing their best to provide what the community needs.
I hope this makes sense and didn't go off on a tangent. I'm still insecure about my English xD I thought of just watching the video then read your post and left a comment. 😀 Thank you for bringing this up!
@Erato
The work that Glen has done for all of us is certainly underrated. 7 Cups has done so much for me and a lot and that is all thanks to Glen creating this site and bringing together this beautiful community.
I feel a lot of the values he has brought to 7 Cups have unfortunately been forgotten along the way though, or at least have less emphasis upon them. Including most apparently- communication between the admin and the rest of the site.
I recently wrote a post in which I listed a few suggestions for the admin, one of which being take into consideration the suggestions of the community, instead of simply acknowledging it (ex: thank you for your feedback!) to which @7Cupscommunity respond thank you for your feedback!
So can you see where I am coming from when I say that the admin perhaps needs to learn from Glens example of taking feedback from the community seriously when he asked for help from the community on several different occasions, which ended up saving the site?
@neverendingMusic92 Yes, I agree with you. Glen's not appreciated enough with the things he has done for 7cups. And I'm glad that you took time and effort to make a thread to recognize him and the principles and values he has made for the community!
I'm not here to debate or argue. I made my post to highlight the message being conveyed in Glen's speech. Though, I'd like to point out that it's not always the lack of communication between the admin and the community that prevents the growth of the site. I'd like to place emphasis on another factor in which it could fill in the gaps in this community－how constructive feedback and realistic suggestions and ideas should be presented and how these are addressed and taken into consideration by the admins.
When we give constructive feedback, we're actually advised to use the feedback sandwich. We often seen it as:
However, the sandwich has more ingredients than just what's provided above, it's actually a feedback burger:
More often than not, when changes happen, a lot of people disagree and feel upset or frustrated. It's okay to feel that way. Those feelings are as valid as you. However, if I were to place myself in the position of the admin, I'd like to hear a constructive and specific feedback rather than just complaints. I think a good example of this is when we're chatting with a member and the member didn't feel satisfied with the chat or they ended up feeling bad because the listener didn't meet their expectations so they start to be aggressive and lash out at listeners. As listeners, we're curious on what went wrong and we identify what happened that made them feel that way and ask, "How can I better support you? What would you like to get out of this chat?" And after doing so, we try to adjust our listening styles to cater to the member. If it isn't still successful we refer them to another listener and let them know we cannot offer them the best support possible hence we're redirecting them to another listener who can make them feel better and then end the chat politely.
We hear a lot of negative criticisms but most people don't actually provide specific ideas or suggestions for the improvement of the community or if they do, it is too broad or vague to comprehend. (This is just based on my observations and this isn't directed to any certain user at all.). I believe that in providing realistic and clear suggestions, we have a lot of factors to take into consideration. We may ask ourselves the questions:
• What exactly is the problem? What does the community want to see?
• Is the thing I'm going to propose aligned with the community goals and strategies?
• Is it possible to carry it out considering the resources and means that the site have?
• Is it achievable or not? If it's achievable, what plans and processes do the admins need to make in order to accomplish such thing? If not, what alternatives or other ways could I provide to make it possible?
• What kind of impact it'll leave if it's pushed through?
In this case, admins would know and understand the suggestions laid on the table. And probably this also helps to not expect a lot from admins and not expect things to get solved easily in just a snap. Though, I'm not going to lie, I have noticed that even though you've presented such detailed suggestions, ideas or feedback, there were times (not always) when admins neither tried to acknowledge the points you've shared nor did they address the issues and I think this is why people feel ignored. They didn't hear back anything. I think that's why reflection is very important just like what @RarelyCharlie indicated. A lot of things (but not all) were left hanging and it has made the community wondering as if it is for them to figure out what the admins came up with, sometimes! People need reassurance. They want to be informed why the feedback or suggestions get rejected.
I feel like we also need to remember that feedback is given to offer "potential" solutions. Moreover, we also need to keep in mind how we word things. Is it constructive, direct, clear or realistic? Nonetheless, there are a lot of things going on that aren't seen by the public. Admins still make the decision to achieve a reasonable outcome in the end and I can see their effort in trying to be responsive to issues. Though, I understand why you yearn for transparency and open communication from the admins.
That's all what I'd like to discuss. Thank you! Again, I'm not sure if this makes sense xD
PS. Thank you @Monbon for replying! I was also going to mention the things you've said.
@Erato
Considering your post is in response to my post, and the main theme of your post is surrounding how to give constructive feedback, what I am understanding is that you see my post as unconstructive feedback. It would be highly hypocritical of me to be avocating so strongly for open communication and for the admin to take constructive feedback seriously if I was not able to take it myself. I want you to know that have taken the time to consider all of your points very carefully before responding back.
In my posts, I have asked that the admin answer all private messages that are written professionally. I can understand how you would see this as complaining if you yourself have your messages responded to by the admin. You might have misinterpreted my message as demanding the admin answer all private messages immediately, since for you, the admin already answer your messages. You may have drawn the conclusion that they did the same for everyone, which unfortunately is not the case, and not just for myself. This is the only logical explanation I can come up with as to why you would consider me asking admin answer their PMs unrealistic. The idea that admin answering private messages within three weeks is unrealistic just doesn't make sense to me considering they have the time to make forum posts about what super power they would want. https://www.7cups.com/forum/HobbyZone_125/WritingHobbies_839/IfIcouldhaveonesuperheropowerIwouldwanttobeableto_53339/1/
When I message a Community Manager about less serious issues, they usually respond to my messages within a day or two. In fact, I cant recall a time where this was not the case. However, when it comes to more serious issues, I very rarely if ever get a response. If I were to follow up the message about the more serious topic with an icebreaker, I would receive a reply to the icebreaker within a day or two, with the message sent before that treated as if it was not sent at all. This has happened multiple times, with multiple admin, to multiple listeners, time and time again. This is an issue that affects a lot of us. Just because it doesnt happen to you, doesn't mean it doesnt happen.
The next part of your post is an explanation as to how to write constructive feedback, most likely because you believe my posts contain unconstructive feedback, so you wrote about how you think I should be writing my posts.
Your burger, as tasty as it may look, seems to be filled with rather a lot of sugar coating and unnecessary fluff. For a constructive criticism burger it's a little hard to find the constructive criticism when it is surrounded by so much praise and compliments. If I were eating that burger, I know I would be tasting a lot more praise and compliments then criticism. If I were to follow that method of feedback, I would be giving 80% (⅘) compliments and praise, and 20% (⅕) of actual criticism in this constructive criticism burger. Would you not think that the 20% would perhaps be a bit overlooked?
I am not very familiar with the forums, as I prefer group rooms and private messages. As someone who is in an environment which I am relatively unfamiliar with, knowing that many people would see it and that it was open to the public eye, I was very careful to make sure all of what I wrote was professional, and I can confidently say that I feel I have achieved that.
More often than not, when changes happen, a lot of people disagree and feel upset or frustrated. Its okay to feel that way. Those feelings are as valid as you.
I am not sure how this is relevant to this conversation, since this is not the result of a change, but as a result of the same thing happening for years.
You spoke in your post a lot about the importance of delivering feedback that is not complaining, too board or vague, unrealistic or unclear. Although I feel all of my posts do not follow any of those descriptions, I would be happy to reiterate the points I am trying to bring to light here. The bullet points you wrote I find to be very well written, and a helpful tool to use when writing feedback. They are answered below:
What exactly is the problem? What does the community want to see?
The problem is that admin are having difficulty answering all private messages regarding concerns about the community. Rather that be because discussing such issues is difficult to do and it would be easier or more fun to answer messages about icebreakers, or because they have so many other tasks to do, the issue stands the same. The community would like to see private messages regarding concerns about the community being responded to.
Is the thing I am going to propose aligned with the community goals and strategies?
Yup! Pretty sure advocating communication, teamwork, and problem solving aligned with the community goals and strategies, which is why I am guessing @GlenM responded thanking me for the post, as well as admin messaging me privately to get some more ideas about how they could respond to the feedback of the community better, some of which they have told me they are planning to implement. If my ideas did not align with the community goals, they would not be working towards implementing them.
Is it possible to carry out considering the resources and the means the site have?
If it is in fact the case that admin are choosing not to respond to certain messages because they are more difficult to respond to (which would explain why they have the time to respond to private messages about icebreakers and not more serious topics) then the resources and means are already there, yes. It is just a matter of choosing to respond to the more important (yet admittedly much harder to talk about) message then the one regarding icebreakers. If it is a matter of the admin having so many other tasks to do that they cant respond to all of their messages, and that they choose to respond to icebreaker private messages because responding to it does not take nearly as much time as responding to one about safety or policy or other similar issues, then it is a matter of the community stepping in to take care of some of the responsibilities the admin have in order to free up their time to be able to respond to more serious issues on the site. Specific examples of what we can do to accomplish this is in the next bullet point.
Is it achievable or not? If it is achievable, what plans and processes do the admin need to make in order to accomplish such thing? If not, what alternatives or other ways could I provide to make it possible?
Ideally, it would be fabulous if admin could respond to every private message the moment it is sent, regardless of time of day. This is of course completely unrealistic, which (correct me if I am wrong) is where some of the responses saying the suggestions discussed are unrealistic and unachievable. Realistically, I would ask for a response within two or three weeks, regardless of the nature of the message. This, I do believe, is possible. But I know that they cannot do it alone. I know for a fact that they would need our help to be able to accomplish this. Some of the ideas of what we can do to help are:
- Write the posts that admin currently write that do not necessarily need to be written by the admin, who already have a huge amount of responsibilities without this added pressure. Here are some examples of some posts that the admin have written that the community could take over for them:
-prioritize answering private messages about serious issues over icebreakers.
Some alternatives:
- create an account similar to @7cupscommunity but for the ambassadors, so they can answer questions. Right now, any questions or concerns anyone has about the site is taken up with @7cupscommunity. The more ambassadors can help with that, the less the admin have to do, and the more they can focus on answering concerns only the admin can address.
- find other means of finance, or better handle the current finances. With this, hire more community managers. Another point to consider is addressing the issues some members of the community who have since left are speaking out about publicly. In this way, you have a chance at appeasing these people so the public image stops being damaged, which will in the long run several damage 7 Cups chances at gaining future sponsors and donations. Even if addressing the issues that have been brought forward does not stop those speaking out in hate, we will be able to show sponsors that the accusations are not true. Think of a sponsor who is considering supporting 7 Cups. they decide to search Cups of say Twitter, or Instagram, or other social media sites, and they see accusations of sexual misconduct. They speak with the staff about such accusations and the staff are not able to provide evidence that these issues are not being addressed, what do you think the chances are that they will support such a site? Rather the accusations being spread offsite are true or not, 7 Cups needs to be able to prove to potential sponsors that they are rather not true, or have been addressed.
- make the 7 Cups account private messageable! I am still confused as to why it hasnt been implemented yet?
What kind of impact itll leave if its pushed through?
What kind of impact will the staff communicating with the volunteers namly answering private messages and having open and honest conversations? Huge. The effects cannot be understated. More ideas will be spread, more perspectives will be brought to the table, more communication which will prevent misinformation and gossip, and will help the volunteers trust the staff so there is less suspicion when it comes to rumours. It will also help the volunteers to not feel silenced and ignored, which will prevent future incidents of volunteers lashing out in anger against the site which as explained above will damage our chances of gaining new sponsors, and keeping the ones we already have. Having open conversations with the volunteers will also help with tackling the problems our site faces, as teamwork is a very important quality in achieving this.
In summary, if staff were to have open conversations with the volunteers of the community, it would lessen the painfully obvious gap between the staff and the rest of the site, lessen gossip, mistrust, rumours, and backlash from members of the site who were denied open minded conversations and are now the cause of spreading hateful messages offsite. If you want to prevent this in the future, perhaps consider speaking to the individuals who are obviously frustrated in order to prevent such a thing from happening again.
@Laura @Heather225 @jill7cups @Zammn @blaze @MayaRoseBird5656 @kanga @River @samar27 @power @arwaS @asthebeesays @blaze @7Cupscommunity @MusicalMagic @AnyaS @AveryLove
@neverendingMusic92
Successful leaders tend not to recommend the "shit sandwich" technique because of its negative consequences in the real world. (This hasn't stopped journalists and management consultants from continuing to promote it, though.)
For example, Ben Horowitz, co-founder at Andreessen Horowitz (a Silicon Valley venture capital firm and 7 Cups investor) criticized it in the short article, Making Yourself a CEO:
...the [shit sandwich] process can feel formal and judgmental...
After you do it a couple of times, it will lack authenticity
...it will have an instant negative effect.
I re-read your original post and it comes across to me as entirely positive overall, just like this latest follow-up. I like your ideas for alternative solutions, and I agree with you about the potential for positive impacts if these ideas can be implemented.
I'm worried, though, that here in the community we might have an inaccurate perception of 7 Cups' real priorities. Perhaps check-ins and icebreakers are vitally important because they help to drive participation numbers, while difficult questions about community concerns don't have any direct payoff.
Perhaps that gap between the staff and the rest of the site is of relatively minor importance in terms of 7 Cups' day-to-day or month-to-month targets. Perhaps preventing occasional bad feeling is not worth the effort in the context of 7 Cups' long term plans.
Charlie
@RarelyCharlie
First off I would like to thank you for being active in this discussion. You have brought forward a lot of good points, and have been able to phrase things in ways some individuals who misunderstand the message I am trying to send here have been able to understand. As I agree with you on the first half of your post, I will only comment on the second half.
I understand that check-ins and icebreakers are an important part of keeping up participation numbers which is necessary to keep Cups running. I am not disputing that. But I also know that addressing serious safety, bullying, prejudice, and training issues that listeners bring forward is also of vital importance. Yes, check-ins and icebreakers are important for participation. But participation doesnt much matter when dozens of listeners are leaving the site because issues of misconduct, bullying, and prejudice were not addressed.
Say you are in a building. There is spilt coffee, an essay you need to write, and an email you have to send. Which do you do first? None of them, because the building is on fire. Cleaning up the coffee, writing the essay and sending the email are all important tasks, but they are not as high of a priority as putting out the fire. Check-ins and icebreakers are important tasks. But they should not be put at a higher priority than addressing issues that are causing members of our community to not only leave the site because it has gotten so bad, but even go as far as to write hatful feedback that would make anyone who reads it not want to go anywhere near this site. We are losing listeners at a rapid pace, and 7 Cups is acquiring enemies at an alarming rate. Addressing the issues that are brought forward will prevent even more enemies in the future, help the volunteers to trust the admin and their actions which will decrease the recent hostility, and will bring more perspectives to the table when it comes to brainstorming ideas on how we can best deal with the struggles the site faces today. Teamwork is a necessary tool to make any community run smoothly. There is not a business that would last if those in leadership positions did not collaborate and communicate with everyone else.
This very site has had several examples of that. The site would have failed if Glen did not turn to the community to ask find solutions for the money problem. It also would have failed if one of the students Glen recruited did not suggest hey Glen why dont you put a little banner at the top of the chat that says one of the best ways to help yourself is to help someone else? 7 Cups would not be able to be the free emotional support site it is today if it were not for the volunteer lisenters. As Glen said in his speech, the volunteers do the mass majority of the work.
There was a huge amount of odds against the site. Almost all startups fail within the first year, and if Glen did not turn to the community for help, 7 Cups would have joined that count. A few quotes in his speech: We grow when we have to face challenges; and it's uncomfortable going through them. The need for us to collaborate, the need for us to work together, and I think those are all critical and key key points to how we begin to figure out and solve these challenges together." These challenges are extremely complex and we are going to figure them out by working together. We need to take that next biggest problem that is in front of us, be courageous, struggle, get challenged, and try to figure it out, and support each other in that process. And as we do that we will solve that problem and then well get the next one. One of the obvious themes in his talk is collaboration, teamwork, and problem solving. If any one of these traits was not applied in the site it would not have made it. Just because we aren't a startup anymore doesnt mean we should abandon those traits.
Nobody here is above anyone else. Volunteers are just as necessary to the site as the admin team. We are all on the same side, and we all need to work together. It is a little hard to problem solve and collaborate with someone who ghosts your messages.
"Perhaps preventing occasional bad feeling is not worth the effort in the context of 7 Cups' long term plans."
If a philanthropist were looking into sponsoring 7 Cups, they would most likely do some research first to see what kind of site it really is. If they were to look on say Twitter for example and found former listeners posting about how 7 Cups sexually exploited minors and that it doesnt care about the safety of teens and that those who have spoken out about the issue have been silenced, do you think that that philanthropist would want to sponsor us? How about if we were to receive government grants to keep the site running, and government officials in that department saw those posts? Do you think there would be an investigation? If that happened, there is a chance that Cups would be shut down by force.
The action being taken off site by several individuals who have become frustrated to the point that they are willing to do what they can to get this site shut down is not a threat that we can just ignore. If the admin team were to address the anger and frustration that some volunteers have on the site and work together with them to try to find a resolution, then we could prevent a whole lot of enemies from ever being created.
I agree with you when you said that perhaps addressing difficult questions about community concerns is less of a priority to the staff then check-ins and icebreakers. Thats the problem. There are serious issues that many members of our community have tried to speak with the admin about in order to try and find solutions. They have been ghosted because posting check-ins are of higher priority than addressing those concerns.
Answering private messages regarding serious issues helps to close the gap between the admin and the rest of the site which will help with miscommunication and mistrust towards the admin. The listeners on the site see 7 Cups from a completely different perspective then the staff. We see the policies they enact go into play. We are the ones who know what is working and what is not. We see the issues that affect our site and because of that offer solutions that the CMs may not be able to see.
There are 3 Community Managers and 140000 listeners, yet the 3 CMs are making posts that pretty much any listener would be able to post and then claim they are too busy to respond to messages regarding ideas on how to improve the serious issues that affect our site, issues that only they can address. check-ins and icebreakers may be an important part of our community, but do the only 3 people on the site that can have a major impact on the polices our site need to be doing that? (there are more than 3 people who can have an impact on policies but they are the 3 we have been told to go to) Its totally awesome the admin are posting check-ins and icebreakers! But claiming to not have enough time to answer PMs because they are too busy with other tasks, and then do tasks that they do not need to do.. Can you see where I am coming from?
A misconception I seem to have developed over these posts is that I dont think check-ins or ice breakers are an important addition to our site. They are an awesome addition! They help improve the site in a lot of different ways. CMs responding to these posts would also be totally fine if it were not that they are being put at a higher priority than answering private messages about the issues that affect our site. I chose to point out the admins activeness in this particular area of the site because it was one of the areas I believed was an area that falls under the realm of listener responsibilities, and thus could be handled as such. It was an example I used to illustrate how the priorities should be shifted to better help the community.
@laura @heather225 @jill7cups @zammn @blaze @mayarosebird5656 @kanga @river @samar27 @power @arwas @asthebeesays @7cupscommunity @musicalmagic @anyaS @averylove
@neverendingMusic92
Thank you for the feedback! I am honestly unsure what you are wanting us to say. We disagree that the building is on fire but appreciate you speaking up about your perception as such.
@7CupsCommunity
There have been several listeners who have left the site and are now publicly bashing the site in every way they know possible. The site is also far quieter than it used to be. I can't speak for the adult rooms, but tl is often dead now, and over the years has gotten increasingly quiet. I would also advise you to take a look at the farewell post. There are lots of posts about going on vacation, or needing to focus on their mental health, or are returning to the site. But there are also posts like these: (direct quotes)
[MonBon removed quotes for duplicate content, learn more here]
And that's just on the last two pages, and those ones are not even all of them on the first two pages. The ramifications of the gap between admin and listeners is apparent in these posts. But the building doesn't have to be on fire for you to fix the frayed electrical wire. It's gotten quite bad, but we shouldn't have to wait for it to get this bad before we do something about it. If you are in a position of authority and someone comes to you wanting to talk with you about an issue that affects the organization you are in charge of, it is the professional thing to do to speak with that person about the problem they bring forward, and take appropriate action on the issue of question. I don't believe it is necessary to wait until the site is burning to the ground to communicate.
@Laura @Zammn @Heather225 @blaze @MayaRoseBird5656 @KarrotCake @jill7cups @Yendi @kanga @River @samar27 @power @arwaS @asthebeesays @7Cupscommunity @MusicalMagic
@neverendingMusic92
Hi there! I edited your post for excessive duplicate content. You can learn more in the link I provided. I'd also encourage you to be mindful of sharing content from the listener side in the public forums as those listeners have not consented for their posts to be seen here.
I know you didn't tag me specifically but I have been following along. Honestly, I've been here for over 5 years at this point and I disagree with you about the state of the site. Yes, there are people who are upset and leaving, but I do not think it is at the catastrophic scale you keep implying. I actually disagree with many of the things you're saying, not because of what you're saying, but how you're saying it. I feel like I am in the minority here as I've seen many people applauding your post, but as a forum mentor who's had to diffuse many conflicts over the years, your approach is one I've seen many times and usually eventually have to edit for it because of the problems it causes.
I'd recommend cutting out the exaggeratory statements ("7 Cups is acquiring enemies at an alarming rate") instead focusing on what you know or have observed (Ex: Recently, I have seen more instances of people attacking the site on other platforms than usual). Statements like that are a well known scare tactic used by news sites to make you feel upset about the situation and are frowned on as they obscure the actual situation. I would also recommend not tagging the same people repeatedly. Mass-tagging is considered spam as stated in forum guideline 9. Those you originally tagged will subscribe to the thread if they feel that they want to follow it. I would reserve your further tags for if you have a statement or question directed at a specific person.
As I said before, I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying, just how you're saying it. Communication is an important topic and I hope we're all able to improve on that front.
@MonBon
(my apologies for quoting other posts over 5 lines. I was not previously aware that was a rule, nor that the farewell thread was a listeners only thread.)
Providing facts, evidence, and arguments can be overwhelming, and this thread has gotten a little hard to follow. To summarize, I am asking for the admin to reply to all private messages written professionally.
It seams to me that you and I hold different perspectives about how serious the situation here on Cups has become. It is my understanding that it has gotten bad enough that a change should happen, and if I am understanding you correctly, it is your belief that it is not bad enough to warrant a change. The quotes I provided that were subsaquesnlty deleted were evidence of how bad it has gotten here. You are welcome to take a look at the past two pages of the farewell thread to see for yourself. You are also welcome to see for yourself the amount of listeners who have left the site and are now publicly saying that Cups sexually exploited minors on apps like twitter and reddit, which even if it were a small number of people, I feel I do not have to explain why this has the potential of having a detrimental effect on our site. If you would like examples of how it is, however, you are welcome to read the other posts I wrote on this thread. The conclusion you come to I cannot change, but it isn't fair to come to a conclusion that the situation hasn't gotten bad enough to do something about it if you have not seen the full ramifications that have resulted from a lack of communication.
@neverendingMusic92
Your understanding of my belief is incorrect. While I do believe it is not as bad as you say (in comparison to how it's always been here), that has nothing to do with whether or not I think we should change. I think we should always be changing, improving, and striving to be the best we can be. I have seen the farewell thread and it's many entries year after year, thank you.
@MonBon
I am glad I was able to clarify that! I am happy to hear we have some common ground in that we both believe that we should always be changing, improving, and striving to be the best we can be. And that includes (your words) always be working to improve communication. Which if I am understanding you correctly, includes communication between admin and the rest of the site. I would suggest looking for yourself at the action being taken offsite by a steadily growing group of individuals who hold feelings of resentment against the site, largely as a result of frustration regarding not being able to communicate with those in charge about the issues that affect them and the site. Though the issue of how bad the site has gotten is not my main message. The people who leave the site and speak publicly against it is just a symptom of a larger problem, a problem that can be largely solved with communication.
@neverendingMusic92
Yes, I am glad we were able to isolate what the main focus of this was <3
I am also aware of the offsite activities. I feel like a bit of a broken record, but this is not a new thing. People get kicked off the site and threaten an uprising. It's happened every year that I've been here so I'm just not concerned with it. Instead, I focus my efforts on here improving my own little corners of the site. You are more concerned with it, and that's okay.
@Erato
Thanks Era, sometime ago, that book had caught my eye, considered investing it, but wasn't so sure if it would be a good read or not. If you enjoyed it, I imagine I may as well. Happy reading, happy learning!
@PhoenixArisen Please do read it! I loved it haha 😊 thanks!
@neverendingMusic92
Thank you for the feedback!
I really want to thank you for bringing this topic up. The idea, the thought upon which 7 Cups is built on is so pure and beautiful. I admire the speech so much. This site has been through thick and thin, through various development and changing phases and has always emerged improved. It's great that such community exists in this world. It's needed, it's very important. I love the emphasis on communication and how important it is for people to connect with each other. What I've wanted to say has already been said by Erica and Erato XD I have nothing but praise for the video though.
I'm always rooting for this site and I'm so proud of the admin team, the listeners and everyone on here. The effort they put and the work they do is much much appreciated especially the admins because they're fabulous.
@neverendingmusic92
@neverendingmusic92 what are your ideas to improve communication?
@Jill7cups
1) don't pick and choose what messages to respond to based on how easy they are to respond to. If anything the more difficult ones to respond to are more important. If you are hot able to get back right away (which is perfectly understandable!) then send a message along the lines of Hey! Just wanted to let you know I have received and read your message. I will gather some information and get back to you on that." And then actually gathering information and getting back to that person.
2) Hang out in the listener rooms more!
3) Host more town halls
4) Foster a culture of open conversation, not fear in speaking out.
5) Take into consideration the suggestions of the community, instead of simply acknowledging it. Ex: thank you for your feedback! (which @RarelyCharlie explained beautifully)
6) Fill out the currently blank wiki what does the community management staff do all day https://www.7cups.com/wiki/what-does-the-community-management-staff-do-all-day/
Thank you! I'll see if I can clarify some of these for you:
1) don't pick and choose what messages to respond to based on how easy they are to respond to. If anything the more difficult ones to respond to are more important. If you are hot able to get back right away (which is perfectly understandable!) then send a message along the lines of Hey! Just wanted to let you know I have received and read your message. I will gather some information and get back to you on that." And then actually gathering information and getting back to that person.
Part of our job is to create posts and interact in the community, so you will see us doing that even if we are also working on a bigger issue behind the scenes. Having said that we've heard the feedback about acknowledging that we are indeed working on the issues. We are trying to do this, but keep in mind we are not on site 24/7 or checking our PMs every hour of the day as we have many tasks to accomplish.
2) Hang out in the listener rooms more!
Again, we are trying! As you know we are severly short staffed right now which means we can't always spend the time in the community that we'd like to. Lately when I go into LSR it is empty. I personally enjoy hanging out in the rooms for what it is worth! I will try to swing by the rooms more when I have a few minutes!
3) Host more town halls
Do you mean more than once a month? I host a weekly meeting for SC leaders, as that is my role focus. Heather hosts several meetings as well.
4) Foster a culture of open conversation, not fear in speaking out.
I feel like we do? I have converstations with Listeners and Members every day about their concerns, they just need to reach out. We have reporting forms and systems in place, and a customer service team that responds to emails should you not feel comfortable coming directly to a CM. Also the forums are here and people use them to bring things up all the time, much like you just did. How else can we accomplish this, any ideas?
5) Take into consideration the suggestions of the community, instead of simply acknowledging it. Ex: thank you for your feedback! (which @RarelyCharlie explained beautifully)
All the feedback is logged and considered, the "thank you for your feedback" is to acknowledge we've seen the comment. Much to your point in #1. We may not have a response right away, or we may have already addressed it.
6) Fill out the currently blank wiki what does the community management staff do all day https://www.7cups.com/wiki/what-does-the-community-management-staff-do-all-day/
The wiki is not currently working 
I can tell you my day usually involves working on projects to help improve safety, training, and experience intermixed with collaborating with Ambassadors and team leaders, attending meetings about all the things, helping Members and Listeners that reach out, performing investigations into issues such as potential bugs or potential problematic accounts etc. I spend a lot of time working with volunteers. And then of course I get pulled into immediate situations throughout the day to help with safety and de-escalation.
I know this doesn't totally solve anything but I hope it helps!
@Jill7cups I also wanted to add that sometimes forum posts are answered quicker than PMs. Both are filled with concerns but some bigger ones are being shared in PMs and people feel those are the ones being missed the most. I love that the community account was revived but I also feel the need to say, with this account, comes more responsibility and I hope its not getting in the way of you guys answering PMs. I know you guys get tons of PMs and Im guilty of always adding onto the pile but I can also imagine you get tons of tags and notifications and those get replies super fast. Is there a particular reason forum posts get attention from a CM faster? Thank you for all your hardwork! :)
@Erica appreciate the point of view and feedback. We get tagged in most things so it can be hard to find the posts that would benefit from a prompt and informative reply.
@Erica I personally think that the reason why they prefer to respond to forums because forums are public and are easily accessible by anyone. So if someone made a thread asking about a certain matter then tagging the admins, the admins could leave a reply answering the question that can be seen by anyone who's subscribed to it. The thread can be shared to anyone who will have similar questions in the future and can be used as a reference. At least, that's how I perceive it.
@Erato Ahhh, thats a good perspective on it! I didnt even think of it like that. Im glad I asked because that makes sense as well.
@Erica
I dont know that I am replying to forum threads faster. But i can see how this would vary. I will add that forum posts have more of a broader reach.
Also, important to mention that communication and speed of communication is why we launched our @7cupscommunity acct. to be more present and share the duty of being present in the community! I know there is still more to do, but we are trying and always striving to be better.
@Jill7cups
I for one think this is a sad state of affairs. So today it seems as if admin. have to explain their role, daily chores and activiites, show and prove their value and worth in writing as if answering to their employer for a yearly evaluation in hopes of maintaining gainful employement. I do believe they have already filled out their applications, submitted resumes and have been deemed worthy to join 7 cups in a position of authority. What next must these admins. need to do for all of us? What is it that will make as all happy? Maybe turning over W-2's? Providing a home number for us to harrass them at? After they do that, then someone will be demanding pap smears? If you want to know what they are doing today, the proof is in the pudding my friends, answering questions like these.
@7cupscommunity
@PhoenixArisen we all know that the admins are busy and we truly respect that. People are always going to be curious what the Community Managers do during their working days/hours. Its interesting for people to learn because it gives them a new perspective on why stuff happens the way it does. No one is demanding them to tell us every single detail of their day. We just want to better understand what we can expect from them so we can grow too. How cool is it to learn about what a CM does? How cool is to know what our leaders do? How cool is it to get to know our leaders? By asking these questions, we get to know them more. They love answering questions of all sorts it seems and we shouldnt feel the need to not ask them because others dont like it. The more curious people are the more engagement you will see because they love getting answers and then finding something else to seek. For example, I barely knew Heather when I came back and through a series of chats, I was able to get to know her more and her role on here. If I was too shy to ask the questions, I never would have known. The Community Managers will answer questions if we ask. They will take feedback in if we tell. Asking questions should never be shamed on here as its the gateway to understanding.
@Erica
Thank you Erica and Phoenix. I really appreciate everyone's point of view here.
Maybe we CMs each could have a AMA forum post somewhere so you all could ask us stuff if you're too shy to ask in PMs?
Thanks for the thoughtful words, Erica!
@Heather225 I love the AMA idea! Sounds resourceful for us. Would love to see that become a thing :) Great idea!
@Erica @heather225
Ha ha oh dear! But I'm game.
@Jill7cups
@Erica
I agree with you Erica in that if you want to know, then of course, just ask! But I do believe there is a right way to go about things and there is a wrong way to go about things. I think the way that you have gone about it is quite lovely. You have chosen your words wisely and it is quite well phrased. Over the course of a month or longer, I have seen post after post bashing the admins.and perhaps you have not had the opportunity to see this. It's gone on for so very long, and in my opinion it is creating a hostile work evironment for them. These are our leaders. It is quite disrespetful. It has started up in this very thread, once again, and was only a thinly veiled attempt to "stir the pot" some more.
Do people behave this way in their personal lives offline? As maybe an employee or a member of some other volunteer community in their personal lives? Do they create inter office memos and spray them like buck shot all around the office? Do you think if this was done in the physical world this would be seen as negative, disruptive, and insubordination? Would it be seen as grounds for termination? Something tells me that indeed, someone would be handed their hat.
I think there is a lot to be said for "key board" courage around here and maybe there are times when people choose to forget that there is a real human being on the other side that is reading all of these negative words and making work life difficult for them. Don't these people get up in the morning, and put their boots on and go to work just as we do? As trained active listeners, have we not been instructed on the correct ways to behave on this site?
There may be times when we as listeners get frustrated about one thing or another. But deciding to find some common enemy and banding together against them is wrong. When you point a finger at someone, well you have three more pointing back at you (not meaning you specifically Erica-this is just a general post about all of this that you may have missed out in the last month or longer). Maybe it's time for everyone to put the pitch forks and torches away and just let these people do their jobs. They really are here to help us, support us, make 7 cups a great place to be! This is thier job, this is their role!
I find it odd that when Glen steps in, and posts..........things quiet down quite quickly now don't they. Were is your keyboard courage now all? Everyone runs next door to some other post, smiles in his face and sends him "beams". These admins. are an extension of Glen. These admins. are people that he has hand picked, hired, to help him in his efforts to bring all of his goals and dreams to fruition. They have been given the authority to speak and act on his behalf and in his abscence.
Lets all get back to Glen's orginal plan. Do you remember this? And please do not forget, being here is a priveledge, it is not your birth right. We all have choices to make. At the end of the day, if someone thinks they can do it better, then anyone is free to go and create "me cups" as appossed to 7-Cups.
@7Cupscommunity
@PhoenixArisen
Thank you for the feedback! You feel we are fulfilling our roles and engaging with the community.
@neverendingMusic92, thank you very much for your kind post! And thank you all for your warm and generous words. All of this means a lot to me.
One important theme I hear in all of this is: We Are All In This Together. And that is 100% true and something we cannot ever forget. We are 7 Cups. The state of our community is the state of 7 Cups. 7 Cups is in part a product or Website, but it is first and foremost a community. That is what makes it real, meaningful, and beautiful.
And for those of us that are plugged in and leading the charge - and that is thousands of us on this site - it is a day by day and minute by minute choice. And for those of you who listen to your better angels, especially when you are frustrated/tired/hurt, I want to give an enormous thank you from the bottom of my heart. I appreciate you! And I am very, very, thankful for you!
@neverendingMusic92 I've been thinking about the observation you made: "7 Cups is losing the core values that Glen built the very backbone of this site on."
It is literally true that the Our Values page was rewritten and the original core values have been lost. Well, not completely lost—they are archived offsite here: Our Key Values
The top value, originally, was: "We treat one another with honor and respect." I think you have given some accurate examples of how the loss of that value has been affecting us.
Thank you for posting a link to the Americares video. It provides an interesting perspective on things.
The numbers given in the video, 40 million etc., are impressive, but unfortunately they seem pretty suspect when cross-checked against other sources. I'm disappointed by this. And some other information in the talk doesn't seem to check out either.
I agree with you that we can learn many things from the history that we share. A talk like this is a useful reminder of how we got to where we are now. Towards the end of the talk, when looking to the future, however, everything in this talk becomes very vague. For these reasons I thought the talk began strongly but ended weakly.
It turns out there's another video from the same event. It's an interview and it's much shorter. Towards the end the interviewer does ask about the future: The next six years
The future, apparently, is not this community at all. It's the plan to train community health workers in India to deliver mental health interventions. 7 Cups' role in the project will be only to provide the software. There's no mention of any online community at all: Building the Mental Health Workforce
In a third video from the event, a panel session, Glen does return to the original purpose of 7 Cups:
It's really on all of us to kind of figure this out, and we do have to really train lay folks to do a lot of this. That and technology, to me, is how we're going to make a dent in these challenges.
So the messages from this event are difficult to interpret, I think. When you say we can apply communication and working together with the community to solve the problems the site faces today, I again agree with you, but only in theory. In practice clear communication turns out to be one of the things that 7 Cups finds most difficult.
Charlie
@RarelyCharlie thanks for watching the video and providing feedback. I put a lot of thought into the talk and actually practiced, but can see from your perspective while you feel that it finished strong and didn't end as strong. I'll continue to work on it! Any other feedback on the talk itself?
With regards to numbers, we quote Google Analytics. I'm not sure what sourcs you are referencing, but we are providing accurate numbers.
I talked about EMPOWER on the interview and it is indeed part of what we are going to do on 7 Cups. We announced it here in detail. Happy to answer any questions on this front.
And, yes, we can always continue to communicate better. We do work hard at it. And, as folks have mentioned earlier, if we struggle at times it certainly isn't because we do not want to communicate better. It is often because we are feeling a little overwhelmed and trying to be as effective as possible. We appreciate enouragement and helpful feedback and support as we continue to grow in this area.
Finally, yes, the original values were something I drafted way way way in the beginning. The second set emerged over several years as we grew as an organization. I believe there is a fair amount of overlap. I see them as maturing. I'd also recommend you check out the culture guide. The values are a distillation of what I drafted in that guide. You can find that here: https://www.7cups.com/about/culture.php