Update!
All,
Hope you are well! It has been a while since Ive been able to post with any regularity. Fortunately, I have more time - finally - to engage more on things. I wanted to take a minute to share some updates with you.
Startups are tough. Mental health startups are really tough. The thing that separates us is that we are a community of compassionate people dedicated to helping one another out. We are a small city of people aligned on this purpose. Our shared values make our startup considerably more meaningful and purposeful. Ultimately we are and always will be a place where people like you and I can volunteer to help another person by simply listening. That is something special.
One part of running a startup is paying the bills. When we first launched we had a very small team and we were running out of money. We figured out online therapy and that allowed us to keep the lights on. Universities and other organizations came on and that helped too. When we generate more revenue we are able to hire people to further build up our city (better street lights, teachers, firefighters etc.); when we have less revenue we need to let some of those people go in order to best support the city. These times are particularly challenging. More recently, we had to let some people go and this was very difficult for us and has meant less people to help in the city.
Some of you noticed the group room announcement. That is part of the scaling back. Not ideal I know, but we have limited resources at present so we have to be as smart as possible with what we do have. Everyone on the team is working hard to grow revenue so we can scale back up. We are pretty good at this, but things take time to unfold.
Ordinarily we like to give time for discussion and processing before we make a big change, but sometimes we need to act quickly. Ultimately our rooms require an adjustment to help keep them safe as possible. We understand that change can be incredibly hard when youve grown accustomed to certain features or expectations, especially sudden change. It is always your choice if you decide to stay with us and continue utilize the support our community offers. If you do stay, please remember that staff, ambassadors, and volunteer leaders are all human and all deserve to be treated kindly. Just as the rooms, forums, and messaging on 7 Cups should be used with integrity and for emotional support. This is why we do what we do. If you need emotional support and agree to follow our community guidelines we welcome you with open arms. If you would like a chatroom environment free of rules and moderation there are plenty of websites that offer that ability. We will always be here for you if you decide you prefer inclusive, moderated, and safer rooms that are support focused.
If this is where you want to be and you are open to our attempts to increase safety while also surviving the challenges of a startup, then we have each others backs and will steer into problems together solving them one at a time. It isnt always easy but it is always meaningful work and that is what ultimately matters. Thank you for supporting our community team and rallying. We are all in this together.
Onward!!!
[Jill added link]
(Edited by Forum Mentor @Emily619 to fix a typo)
If 7 cups is doing great financially, we would assume that the chat rooms haven't been closed because of financial reasons?
As you can see here and on the official post about the major chat room changes, there are hundreds of people against closing the chat rooms. Many are extremely affected and it's very difficult to adapt to this and get the same support that they have got in chat rooms. Please prove that our voice matters.
Do you think it would be possible to make a poll/survey so everyone can vote about safety in chat rooms?You could ask if people think the chat rooms were safe (except Depression room who had problems) and if they agree with this decision of closing most of the chat rooms? Safe chat rooms are great, but closing all the chat rooms won't fix things, on the contrary., plus many chat rooms were pretty safe, except depression chat room.
More than 90% of the community is against losing all those chat rooms, so a democratic approach and letting people express what they really think of safety in chat rooms and if they agree with this major change through a poll or survey would be perfect.
@ImaginaryPainting
It wasn't just the depression room that had issues, but closing every single room permanenty and to everyone is a step too far. It's punishing the entire community, throwing everyone under the bus for the sake of a few trolls and bigots doing wrong. Even so, most of the problems I've faced with this site have been from listeners. There are only two occasions I can think of where non-listeners caused problems for me.
Literally this evening alone I encountered a listener who was using his status to target vunerable people so if the site is going to force me to just deal with listeners maybe I should just go. It's obvious 7Cups needs to get it's priorities in order.
@TheMadQueen420 the rooms will open when mods will be available for moderating rooms, simple, no room open without mod. lot less chaos, lot less unsupportive chats. but rooms will open often, regulary.
@TortueDesBois
You say "regularly" when I haven't seen a single room open all day long. It's a blank page, and still is.
Not only that but those chats were supporitve. Listeners are not, at least in my experience. Yes, I've had some good experiences with them but it's mostly been bad. Just tonight there was a creep. and another one who said some questionable things as well.
@TheMadQueen420
Listeners being creeps, being openly bigoted towards me (even messaging me outright just to spew hatred), listeners telling me I'm "lucky" for having had abusive relationships, listeners telling me that I'm worthless or that my concerns aren't valid. Yeah, there was a reason I stuck to the chats.
I've been in them at some of my lowest points, and with the exception of about 3 members everyone has been supporive and accepting of both who I am and my experiences. I have been talked down from panic attacks and worse via the rooms, and been handed some genuine advice and been reassured that not only did I matter but that I wasn't alone when it came to something.
Like I said, I've had good listeners though but it's mostly been bad, which makes me not want to use that function at all. What am I meant to do now?
@TheMadQueen420
I have two good listeners that I chat with relatively regularly, but I had also shut down the option for listeners to initiate contact with me because I got tired of being in tears during or following a chat with many of them. 👎 I have social anxiety and it was seriously being heightened by that 💩.
i'll tell you what would happen if i cared enough to have 5 chats with 5 listeners in order to access the new live chatrooms.. i start a revolt and as soon as i entered the new [edited]. haha
edited by Anomalia for unsupportive content
@reliableSpring6321
Wouldn't matter if you had five chats. Most of us have but still can't access the room.
@TheMadQueen420 let's break the rules on this thread
@reliableSpring6321
We can do what we like, it's not like those in charge would ever listen to us.
@TheMadQueen420 In line with the chat count situation: I've participated in a ton more chats than the number that shows on my progress page. It's only gone up 5 points within the past 2 months. I've definitely participated in more than 5 chats in that time frame. I have commented in forums about it, reached out to my forum contact about it, sent a message about it through the Support & Feedback portion of the site, I also emailed community@7cups.com about it. No one has responded, and this has been going on since September. There must be a glitch in the system but who knows.
Community mods (like CommunityModGabe) are getting paid to moderate, yet they barely engage with people and don't even come near the awesome things the volunteer mods do, why not instead pay some people who actually do the best work on the site, and also pay someone to actually answer people's questions? Yes, tech engineers etc. are valuable to the site functioning... but who shows up to the site? Who posts threads in forums? Who cultivates a sense of community? Who moderates the pop up chats and does so really well by engaging and helping others? It's the volunteer mods! I'm not even a volunteer mod & listener, but if I were, I would be outraged by how the higher ups just decide my fate on the site for me, without consultation, which includes dealing with more 1-on-1 chats to help people frustrated by the recent changes, aka doing more work to compensate! Volunteer mods should definitely get more recognition, as they are way better than the bot-like community mods who we don't even know and who don't even form a sense of community, they only pop up in rooms to make sure messages are in conjunction with the chat rules! If more mods are needed, why not put it out there and let people in the community know?
As in your case, some people can't see the chats when they should be able to, and it's just another issue that seemingly no one is doing anything about.
@fearlessWriter78
I just get the feeling that the higher ups don't care about us at all. I used to think so, but this recent events have shown me otherwise.
Time to find a new site. Any ideas?
@TheMadQueen420 I have gotten that feeling too, and expressed this to Lorraine in her thread here. She blames us for "misunderstanding" the initial announcement. No, we read it and understood it well. He said the chat changes were for "safety."
Well, then he, in his "Update" thread, said the changes were a part of the site's "scaling back" due to limited resources and revenue.
He and Lorraine have given us conflicting accounts of what's really going on, claiming that despite the monumental recent changes on the site, and the layoffs, that the financial status of the site is "fine," which contradicts his statements in the "Update" thread. In addition, according to the salaries listed on Glassdoor, the paid employees are being paid really, extremely, well. Why not cut back on some exorbitant salaries instead of hurt the actual members, and community, of the site?
Meanwhile, I'm sitting here going, wtf?
@fearlessWriter78
Sounds like they are just making excuses. After the "safety" concerns weren't bought, they came up with something else.
Overall though, I get the feeling that they do not care at all and we would all be better off elsewhere if somebody in this thread knew of a good alternative to this site.
I would set it up myself if I had the finances, to be honest.
@fearlessWriter78 - I appreciate your helpful resource links. I am jumping into this situation after not being on the site for a couple weeks and this really helps me follow the madness. Thank you <3
@wontwakewontsleep No problem, glad to help! 
@GlenMThe main issue was apparently in group chats some people are trolling and being a bully to others which isnt nice because everyone is encouraged to support and respect here. And the groups must have moderators now to see and control if ever such conflict arise as we all want this to be safe for us and not to get hurt. <3
@snowneoonbluez43553
Yet listeners can troll and be cruel all they want with no consequence, right? Because that's what's been going on, and yet that's not addressed at all.
A few trolls in the depression room and a few of the others and bam, entire group support system is gone forever.
What a joke.
@TheMadQueen420 i also mentioned that 7cups seriously need to update strict training for listeners and strict rules for members. I personally have encountered listeners who dont even reply so say i dont care or ask ridiculous questions. So it's a dynamic issue. So some listeners and some members. Not all. I hate not being heard and understood when some listeners still lacks the skills and training. There's more to this and i hope there can be some amendments
Does anybody know how to get the strong bond 1 badge? I've had 5 conversations with 5 different listeners but I still don't have the badge, this is really frustrating.
@Moonlitrose1
I've had at least ten this evening alone trying to get the badge (and also asking for alternatives to this place) and I still don't have it.
Perhaps they just don't want us accessing the new chat room at all?
@TheMadQueen420
@TheMadQueen420
^ Disregard that tag.
Maybe not but I also read on this site that in order to get the strong bond 1 badge, you have to have 10 conversations with 10 listeners, yet their telling us that we supposedly only need 5 conversations with 5 listeners at 30 messages each. Seems a bit fishy 🤔
@Moonlitrose1
And is it 30 messages from you or 30 messages overall? They aren't clear about any of this, and part of me wonders if they are being intentionally vague.
@TheMadQueen420 In general, it seems to me, the people who interact with the community don't really know how anything works. They can only pass on what they are told by developers. This can come across as vague, but personally I don't think the vagueness is intentional. It's just a side effect of a communications gap between the developers and everyone else. The communications gap itself, however, is intentional although I don't know what the goal of it is. Maybe it's just that developers get more done when they are not interrupted.
Yes, the current description of Strong Bond I is "for completing 5 chats each with 5 different listeners". A chat usually means 30 messages overall, but there's a catch, which is something like there have to be at least 10 messages from each person. I'm not able to verify the details precisely.
Charlie
@RarelyCharlie
That's pretty difficult to get and sounds a bit far-fetched as talks with listeners can be incredibly varied. A conversation may last less than 5 messages or even up to 40 depending on who you end up talking to.
@TheMadQueen420 I agree with you. I think (but I'm not sure) that if you have a series of short conversations with a listener it counts the total number of messages even if there were long gaps and the conversation "ended" several times.
And I think (but I'm not sure) that if you have long conversations, every 30 messages counts as a "chat" to the system. (But of course this is not relevant for Strong Bond I.)
Charlie
@RarelyCharlie
I mean I've been talking with listeners all night and I still don't have the badge so I'm not sure what "works" towards it.
@TheMadQueen420 In that case I'm as confused as you are 
Maybe submit a bug report?
Charlie
@RarelyCharlie @TheMadQueen420
fluffyunicorn84 in this thread https://www.7cups.com/forum/SiteUpdates_100/GlensNookCommunity_547/RoomAnnouncement_211731/
said that the requirements are not 5 chats but 25 chats ( 5 chats - 150 messages with each listener ) x5 and then also having the hearts not one chat each with 5 different listeners so maybe thats why people are not seeing rooms even after talking to 5 listeners
@RarelyCharlie
so the obvious problem with all this is of course people are going to assume the most logical sane interpretation of 5 chats with 5 listeners (and even then they didnt explain to people that 30 messages was one chat so people would be confused even if it was the sane interpretation of that ) but we forgot this is 7cups and so its 5 chats with each of the 5 listeners and finally not thats explained in one comment tucked away in a thread for people to find maybe or not find
there really needs to be a thread calling for listeners who are willing to dedicate to members 5 chats /150 messages to each person they talk to and of course keep track of messages sent up to the 150
@jennysunrise8
Except I've had more than the requried amount for the badge, and that's something I made clear in my responses in the very thread you linked. I was told to view my progress and according to that I've had 34 chats and 23 repeat chats. I don't see how that isn't enough to qualify for this badge.
I'm probably gonna leave this site anyway. I only came for the group chats.
@TheMadQueen420
you must talk to the listener and between the two of you there must be at least 30 messages or more (not less than 10 from you and not less than 10 from them) and so any listener you talk to has to agree to talk to you for that length of time or just try your luck i guess they expect members to do ??? but like i said you can message me and thats one if you dont have the requirements i hope you dont have to start over with 5 new listeners
@TheMadQueen420
you can message me for one of your chats and anyone else here who needs a listener chat or hearts requirement can message me 👍 we can talk about anything even vent about rooms closing or anything else if you want to
@jennysunrise8
I'm still confused.. so is it that you have to have 25 chats in general with 150 messages each? Or is it 5 chats with 5 different listeners?
@Moonlitrose1
you have to talk to 5 listeners and with each listener you talk to between the two of you there has to be sent 150 messages (equal to 5 chats) 5 chats with each of the 5 listeners
@Moonlitrose1 The latest theory seems to be 5 listeners, and 150 messages with each of the listeners (with the 150 messages roughly balanced between you and the listeners). 150 messages is 5 standard "chats" from the system's point of view, but not from a human point of view.
At one message a minute that's about 12
@RarelyCharlie
i dont know if it needs to be balanced fluffy said at least 2 messages sent from the listener which doesnt sound balanced at all if its 150 messages (unless thats wrong) really admins need to make a statement explaining all this in detail so everyones on the same page and not saying and thinking different things and everyone wondering why they cant get into chatrooms
@jennysunrise8 My vague memory of it was 10 member messages out of every 30, but I don't know where I read that.
Charlie
@RarelyCharlie
thanks charlie will write that down - so actually 30 messages might not equal a chat if it doesnt include 10 messages from the member what i need to be counting is at least 50 messages sent from the member and at least 150 total well hopefully admin makes a post asking for listeners who have the time and are willing to manually count and keep track of all this it doesnt sound like its was too thought out i will do that but not just every listener will so unless theres some sort of organized collection of listeners who will members are going to be wasting a huge amount of time
@jennysunrise8 Ah, well, I'm not sure it's a simple as that 
I think it's more likely that each run of 30 messages must contain at least 10 from the member. The system probably processes this each time a message is sent, looking back over just the last 30 messages and ignoring earlier ones.
Charlie
@RarelyCharlie
behold this is what happens when everything is too complicated things dont add up and people get confused and its distraction feeding into distraction if its not simplified and organized but we are just howling at the moon it seems *sigh* oh well we can only try ;)
@jennysunrise8 It seems my understanding was wrong, so we just trying to figure out exactly what it is.
@fluffyUnicorns84
oh thats ok 
i just want to make sure everyones on the same page whatever the page is whether its 30 or 150 lol and its seems to be page 30 which is good but even finding a listener willing to have a 30 or more message chat and sending and getting at least 10 messages from a listener not every listener will do that and cooperate to help that member reach the chat requirement and so a member is left aimlessly wandering around messaging listeners and hoping those numbers happen within the chat or there can be a thread a roll call asking any listeners who are willing to help people out with the 30 message 10/10 requirement and will commit to that with each member wanting to get back into the chatrooms
i think theres some idealistic assumptions that this is just going to naturally happen here with listeners
@jennysunrise8 My prediction is that people who are only here for the chat rooms and not the listeners are just going to leave. Pretty much the same as what's happening with the feed.
@Moonlitrose1
sorry correction the requirement its 5 chats with 5 different listeners minimum 30 messages in the chat - with a minimum of 10 messages sent to the listener and 10 recieved from that listener basically you need to count 10 sent and 10 recieved and 30 or more messages any listener you talked to before that didnt agree or wont finish this it wont count as a " chat " in this quota that admin doesnt want to hasnt planned to help with or even explain to members ...
@jennysunrise8
This is all starting to sound like a Monty Python sketch
@quietCloud22
definately lol 
@quietCloud22
definately lol
@quietCloud22
lol
@TheMadQueen420 They finally got pinned down on that one -- it's five chats total: one with each of five different listeners. "Chat" is defined as 30 messages, including at least 10 from the member and 10 from the listener.
@stressBear
since its 10 messages someone has to get from a listener (and sent to the listener) and not just 30 messages it would probabally be a good idea when people message the listener to say right in the beginning - " will you accept a chat with me trying to get back into chatrooms and a chat is at least 30 messages 10 from you or it wont count if your willing message me back please " and just copy and paste this intro message to listeners and those listeners who agree to that counting will message back if not its going to take a lot longer if its not planned out and just all left up to chance and no wonder people are having so many chats but not getting the badge it was a chat but maybe they only sent 7 messages and the listener only sent 9 so it doesnt count it all has to be a certain numbers to count towards a "chat"
also a member can start a thread here asking for listeners who will agree to do 30+ and send at least 10 messages to them to contact > https://www.7cups.com/forum/GeneralSupport_28/MembersClassifieds_360/
@jennysunrise8 The thread in classifieds sounds like a good idea. It still leaves open the question of whether I'm capable of sustaining a conversation for that long.
@stressBear It doesn't have to be a conversation. Here are some 20-line poems you can copy and paste line by line 
Then you only need 5 listeners who are happy to make random remarks and to heart some of the lines.
This could be semi-automated, obviously.
Charlie
@RarelyCharlie Darn! Forgot the link: Famous 20 Line Poems
Charlie
@RarelyCharlie Well, that's one way of gaming the system... Might be worth a try.
@stressBear Oh, you write your own poems, I see 
Feel free to recite one to me, if you wish, and I will provide 10 lines of constructive literary criticism!
The more serious point being that a dedicated h4x0r troll only needs five listener bots and a poem-reciting member bot to create unlimited chat-authorized accounts. It can even be the same poem each time.
Charlie
@RarelyCharlie Doesn't even have to be a poem -- random numbers would do. Or the script for the bot!
@stressBear
it doesnt have to be a long message you might be used to writing a lot in messages but you could break it up you could make a message sent one sentence or a paragraph its up to you or it could even be just a few words and the conversation wouldnt be too long - like my paragraph above that could be sent in one message but i could easily break all that up and send it in 10 or more messages even and you can message me if you want to for a chat :)
... actually, it seems that I can.
@stressBear
lol i knew you could do it bear
Here's my all encompassing solution against trolls that will benefit everyone... Just make it a monthly subscription thing. Like a token sum of just 14.99 $ a month in order to have access to the chats.. This will not only solve your financial problems with the site, but it will eliminate trolls since they dont like putting anything on the line. Everybody wins
@GlenM I am sorry to hear about this revenue issue.. I am sure that, under your leadership, this issue will be resolved and 7 cups will continue to be the wonderful website it has been for so many years now. We have full confidence in you. Keep up the good work, Glenn!
I have only recently joined 7 cups, but my first experience with listeners was not good. It took a long time for someone to connect with me, and when they did the did not reply. I was just sat here looking at the chat and nothing happened. However, when i joined a group chat I was welcomed and people were really friendly and helpful, even if I had a hard time accepting their help.
The loss of the group chats makes me less willing to use the site, to be honest. After all, my best experiences so far have been in the group chats. I might try the listeners a bit more, but I feel like this place got a lot colder and more shut off now. We'll see how long i'll stay.
For me personally the Group Chats were the strongest feature of this site. Currently many listeners are underwhelming to talk to and the forums are ok for posting thoughts but the chats made for interactive real time discussions. I'm not sure if I'm really willing to suffer through 5 chats with 5 listeners just to gain access to a chat that has little segregation bassed on issue or concern.
@GlenM what was the scale down because I cannot see any group chatrooms at all to join.
Hope you are having a good day @GlenM
