Back 7 Cups: Part I of Making 7 Cups Sustainable
Weve been talking about different ways we can help make 7 cups sustainable. If you havent yet, please read this thread (please also read this thread if you have questions as they have likely been answered in that thread). The first step we want to take in this process is the Back 7 Cups initiative.
Anyone who wants to support our mission will be able to ‘back 7 cups with a monthly contribution. Well have system messages, a dedicated landing page, and emails that provide people with the opportunity to support 7 cups in this manner. People will still receive perks (see below) for backing 7 Cups, but the emphasis is on backing 7 cups and only secondarily on the perks.
At the same time, well be testing another option that can best be understood as 7 Cups Premium. This option emphasizes the perks primarily and backing 7 cups/supporting our mission as secondary.
We are testing out both options because we are not sure which one will work best. It might be that one option works best in some situations and the other works best in others.
The perks will be spelled out in more detail in the coming days. What follows is a high-level overview. When you back 7 cups, or upgrade to a premium account, youll unlock personalized paths to help you grow stronger, increase confidence, and develop stronger relationships. These paths are comprised of series, or packs, that focus on topics like: relationships, calm and strong, mind over mood, physical health, and life skills. It also unlocks a number of singles or discrete paths that are designed to help you overcome specific issues. Moreover, people that back or upgrade will also access to bi-weekly group conference calls with licensed psychologists on topics like depression, anxiety, mindfulness, stress, and relationships. Additionally, they will receive a monthly email from me and the ability to participate in a conference call with me every month. Ill share what Ive been thinking about in life, Ill discuss ways to overcome challenges, and Ill also provide a sneak peak into future developments here at 7 Cups. Finally, the person will also receive 2 sustainability icons for their profile and the profile of one other person they select. This indicates that it is a shared gift given to ensure that 7 Cups thrives for years and decades to come.
To clarify, listeners would also be very welcome to contribute. If they do not have a member account, then they would just receive the above perks, but they would not unlock the personalize paths. Thanks @RocketsMom for asking.
Our goal is that these options will help get us a clear trajectory of sustainability. If these do not work as well as we hope, then well need to further tweak them and potentially add additional perks or options. Well also soon be rolling out the 7 cups for organizations initiatives shortly as well. We already have a major university on board and we are working with several other non-profits.
Again, please read the other thread if you have questions. If you have questions that have not yet been answered yet, then please ask them here and Ill be happy to provide more details. We are planning on releasing this new update later this early next week. Ill keep you updated!
Thank you!
@GlenM @RocketsMom
[Tagged for large interaction and answers in this thread]
Let me begin by saying this: We all have our own views, worries, concerns and thoughts about different topics. We are all unique and as a result see things differently. this post is in no way intended to be hateful, disrespectful or rude - it's simply a voice of curiosity and concern.
1) Many people using this site come from an under privileged background, or current state. As a result many people, especially teens with no jobs etc, may simply be unable to contribute to the site in this way - this isn't a big issue until the "perks" come into play. Not being able to access equal care and support services on a free support site seems unfair, if it's based on your income. Some people on here are in very low states of poverty and may need this "advanced care system" but simply won't be able to afford it.
2) The old and classic concerns over "favouritism". Don't get this point wrong, I understand we aim to limit this impact on 7 cups as much as possible and it's not exclusive to the site, it happens in all big companies, businesses and health sectors across the globe, however it must be considered. Any company knows that banning/blocking/punishing those who contribute to their survival is a bad plan, so generally speaking this leads to 'special rights' being given to these 'donators/contributors' in order to keep the over all project going, or they get more rapid responses and care, (depending on the company and its aims etc). I just have a fear of it making the moderate amount already present, worse. I know you'll aim to limit this effect but some detailed clarification would likely help satisfy many people.
3) I may be a bit out-dated, since I'm not involved in 7 cups financing in any way, but why is there a new need for such income? At launch (or a while after it), wasn't there a very significant investment and support going for the site? This included, but wasn't limited to, (If memory servers me right); "Justin Sullivan", "Zachary Townsend" and "Paul Buchheit". I'm certain there were others but I can't recall their names. I know these people made significant investments and I believed they still did? I'd appreciate knowing why there is a new need for such donations from the site listeners and members; has the cost really increased that much to run the site?
4) Can content that is donated for be shared indefinitely, such as the guides? I know this may defy the purpose but I am a great believer in the right for all people to have equal chances and support within healthcare. My main passion for listening and helping on 7 cups spawned from the point it provides everything it does, to anyone who needs it, for free. If people who can afford to could "donate" and share this content I think it would be better received than keeping it all private.
5) Will it be made very evident to donators that our listeners are volunteers, many of whom have no formal training, and are not paid for their work in any way? There are still misconceptions by users about listener standards as it is, i wouldn't want this update to worsen that situation and cause unrealistic expectations among users.
I have various other thoughts but I think they've been mostly covered in other posts, so that's just a matter of reading it again and working it out in my head. Again, please don't take this as a rant. I can see big benefits for 7 cups from this update, but I would just like to voice these concerns I have and get clarification and information on them. I wish you, and the 7 cups team the best of luck with this update and hope it all works out well.
~ Baubs
Ive read this and some other related threads and now I understand the vision (and the dilemmas) of @GlenM. This site is a for profit enterprise; and it has a lot of advantages (after creating the sustainability of the site in a few agile, creative way – with an open, flexible attitude in the leadership):
- it remains free for the members and the listeners; who pay for extra services is usually just small percentage (of course this is their individual choice) – this is only one of the possible sources of sustainability (e.g. corporate sponsorship)
- the site will provide a high-quality service for everyone; besides this it will be improved continuously
- very important that no one will burn out (from listeners, staff, leadership)
@2015ihope thats why the site will be free for you :)
@BriteSide
Thank you for getting back to me :) I really appreciate it . I understand that the site and membership will still be free but I presume that the extras or " perks " won't be ? After seeing the prices of these extras , I can now confirm that it is impossible for me to access them , due to the fact that the only money I get a year is a small amount as a gift on some special occasion . Not only is this sum of money too small to cover the cost of paying for the extras but this is all the money I have to spend for things I'd like or to save per year . Having looked at the extras , I'm a bit upset as some of the personalised paths look really helpful and I think I would benefit from them but it is not possible for me to afford them . ≈ hope ≈ ♥
@2015ihope
I cant pay for the perks, too. I think of that list as a content of a book which one I cant read. But there are other books on the same topics which ones Ive already read or I can read if I want. Similar topics are in Self-Help Guides (Ive read that you made a few of them) and also in the Forum; you can search for these topics also on Google or Youtube. You can make your own journal from the things what you like or use bookmarks. If you ask for help then there‘ll be listeners and members, too, who are more than willing to help you to work out those skills for yourself, Im sure :) Meanwhile the sitell improve, too, for everyone :) With love: Brite
I tag @Ace13 @KrinkTheMellowUnicorn in case if they hadnt read your post.
@BriteSide @2015ihope
This is definitely one of the downsides of charging for anything, or giving any reward for anything. Any value perceived in the package (needed as an incentive or encouragement or reward) is going to feel tantalizing to anyone who cannot afford to unlock it.
One thing to know is that the vast majority of the resources on the site are and will remain free. The personalized paths are cool, don't get me wrong, but what they offer is primarily a structured use of the growth path to focus on a specific topic, so yes a self-directed effort with guides and other resources on the site would lead you to the same content and exercises.
Now of course it's valuable to be on "a course" and to have the boundaries and structures of an organized program, but again in a sense this is a way of packaging material available to anyone with a bit of effort.
Having said all that, I do feel it when someone says they feel left out or denied something they would like to have.
Right now we can gift sustainability icons but I am wondering if we might also want to look into a way to donate upgrades to other people, either specifically giving someone a gift, or contributing to a "scholarship" pool others could apply for? Just a thought....
@BriteSide and @KrinkTheMellowUnicorn
Thanks so much for your replies guys :) ! That has definitely helped make me feel a little better knowing that by far I'm not the only person who can't afford these perks . Thank you very much for your suggestions Brite <3 I haden't considered some of them before , so I'll try them out now :D I agree that the self help guides are brilliant ! Also I'm kind of glad that the personalised growth paths aren't toooo special , part of the hardest part of not being able to afford them is not knowing what you're missing . I also think that something like scholarships would be brilliant Krink , that sounds like a great idea to me :) I do understand that you are trying your best to make all this as fair as possible and I'm very grateful ! ≈ Hope ♥ ≈
@BriteSide
good summary!
I'm a newish member, only been here a couple weeks or so, and I've benefited very well from this site in the time I've been here.
I've only just now found out about this when I saw that green button on my path page. At first I'd say I felt disappointed, I realize the site needs funds, but I thought the paying option would be something benign like merchandise (tshirts and posters), not actual self-help content.
Personally I would currently do the "back 7 cups" option, as it appears to be the most flexible and affordable. However I have no disposable income, so looks like that content is lost to me. Are these unique paths just fancy skin changes to the current path? Or will they challenge me to make improvements to my life that the current path doesn't do? Do they lead somewhere?
My path feels stagnant. I feel no progression since I'm always in the middle, and my steps are 100% determined by me, which means if I just want to skip to the end of a feed boost, I can do that. Sure I may not be helping myself in the process, I get that this site isn't to get the most badges or anything, but the fact that it even has achievements for chatting the the chatrooms, it definitely taps into a game-mentality for me.
I'm a game designer, and this whole site is like gamefied self-help to my eyes. It may be my own problem that I'm seeing this site through such a strong game lens, I get that, but the game-like qualities of this site are unmistakable.
So, to my eyes, when I see a company take these mechanics of self-help, and tack on a 'pay-to-win' option, I kinda feel funny about it. Granted 5$ isn't the worst price, it's okay, but what about the people who have no jobs yet? The teens who maybe they're on the site secretly?
I know you say that no one will be made to feel unequal, and I believe that you truly believe that, but I feel like that's going to be hard when you have a selection of people who literally have more access to help than the rest.
I will say this, Thank you for not making this mandatory, and I hope that I've been able to contribute something useful in my own blunt way.
@Glen
I was about ready to do the $5 a month donation so that I could have the perks but there was a lot of discussion about that $5 does NOT give u the perks and u have to give $13 a month to get those perks. Can u spell out for us what exactly u get if u do a $5 donation? Also I am just getting my account back because it was banned due to a bad(and inaccurate) review from a member who was not happy with me. This is a problem I have experienced and know of many other listeners and mods who have had some issues wih this. With this policy of suspending a listener for poor reviews with no questions asked, is there also going to be an automatic cancelation of my donation if u suspend my account and i am unable to utilize these perks regardless of the reason my account gets suspended? If my member account gets banned, will I have a way of getting on my account and canceling my monthly donations since I would no longer be allowed to utilize the site or access my account?
@GlenM - There's been some confusion going on in the Group Chat rooms. There is a message popping up for some of us that looks like this <- and the url it takes them too looks different than the current one that's on top of the screen.
This is the page it takes them to, (https://www.7cups.com/backus/upgrade7cups.php) while this is the page up at the top of the screen. (https://www.7cups.com/backus/back7cups.php)
There have been questions on the differing prices and I remembered you mentioning earlier in this topic that you would try one method (donating) before attempting the other method (upgrading). Is it possible someone put the wrong url by mistake?
@ValentineLove good question! This is what i was referring to on our call tonight. The plan was always to test both options - back us and upgrade. We don't know which option is gong to work best. Our goal is sustainability, so we are testing multiple options - and we'll be testing more pieces in the future as well.
@GlenM I remember from speaking to you before that that had been your plan. I suppose I didn't realize it would be happening at the same time. Would it cause less confusion to change the green button that appears in the chat to "Upgrade your account today!" as opposed to "Back 7 Cups!"? A member in the chat was really confused by this difference and I was rather confused by it as well.
On another note, I was there for the conference call and in the Live Discussion but at some points I may have missed what you were saying so I apologize if you covered this and I missed it. Will the minimum amount ($5) unlock all perks? If so, why is this amount different from the upgrade amount?
@GlenM - Just saw that you answered the question on whether or not we'll get all the parks with $5 in another post. :)
May I ask why there's a price difference between upgrading and backing? Any particular reason?
@ValentineLove
looks like there was a mixed-up link crossing the backing and upgrading language with the wrong landing page (partly because that one uses some of both language, I think) - I believe @devTeam has fixed that one - thanks for letting us know!
@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn That's what I thought! Thanks. :) And you're very welcome.
Okay, that was a whirlwind few hours. We posted the back us/upgrade feature. There was some confusion. We hopped on a conference call and answered a number of questions. @krinkthemellowunicorn and I have been answering questions in the forum and via PM. Let me summarize where I think we are at:
1. Most everyone understands and agrees that 7 cups has to be sustainable.*
2. Most everyone understands that we are not sure the best way to get 7 cups sustainable and that it'll require research and testing to figure that out.
3. Most everyone is concerned about not compromising 7 cups and making sure that we stay true to our mission.
4. Most everyone understands that language on buttons asking people to upgrade etc. and whether or not those buttons use advertising like language is tricky and, if not done right, can be offensive.
I'm very glad we are in a common place of understanding on the above issues. I think the biggest challenge right now is number 4. We agree that 7 Cups needs to reach sustainability, but we don't yet know how it is going to get there. It may be that we do not need any sort of advertising language at all. It may be that people just want to back us and support our mission. I really hope that is the case. However, we are not sure at this point. We need to err on the side of research, experimentation, and, yes, even using adverting like language to figure this out, because we don't yet know the right path to get to sustainability. I appreciate the feedback, help, and patience. We'll know much more in a couple of weeks.
*Sustainable means 7 cups can cover its expenses. Right now 7 Cups does not generate any income. Every organization has to generate income in order to survive. Stated simply, if 7 cups does not generate income, then it cannot continue to exist. i.e., it won't be sustained. Expenses include things like infrastructure costs, servers, software services, salaries, and office costs. These are the same expenses that any organization needs to cover and we are the same way. We are now trying to get sustainable to make sure that 7 Cups can exist for decades and decades to come. Please read the first post in this thread for more details.
@GlenM
Thanks for summarizing! I've been encouraging everyone to give it a few weeks before passing judgment and see how it goes. Just like with other updates to the community, flexibility and patience (from both sides) are needed for this one to work as well :).
Hey I wasn't at the call from last night and I may be a bit confused here.
From what I've seen when reading about the upgrade, that is more for members who are using it for help and resources to get better. Are listeners gonna be restricted to only a "basic" package of resources and opportunities as well or just members? If that makes any sense at all. @GlenM
I'll take a moment tonight and read more of what everyone said in this thread.
@cristiana33
Right now backing us or upgrading an account has the biggest effect on a member acct (the so-called "perks" of personalized paths, etc., are member features). Some of the other aspects apply to any account type (such as the sustainability icons). And anyone can back us without being a member or listener, for that matter.
So, right now there are no feature-based perks unlocked for listeners. I suppose we might think of something eventually (:D) but I want to be clear that we don't see this as "restricting" what people get for free, but actually adding new features for upgraders.
We see the free package as incredibly important. It's the basic offering most people will ever use, and over time it will keep getting richer and more mature as well. At the same time we will keep experimenting with the right balance to bring in enough revenue to sustain us without spoiling what is so great about 7 Cups or losing sight of our mission.
Thanks all for patience and understanding as we figure all of this out and answer questions. I summarized all of the main issues above. Let me take a minute to also share what we are planning to do in the next few steps and a bit more into the future.
1. We want to provide the ability to gift 7 cups to another member or guest. One thing we've heard is that there are some folks that want to upgrade, but have financial constraints. We understand that and think one solution may be for a way for people to gift 7 cups. We'll know more soon on this.
2. As discussed above, there is tension around advertising language. We need to do a lot of testing around back us and also upgrade language. Some of what we have to test will include advertising like language. We do not yet know how this will work out, but need to test all of our options. Again, it is better for us to be more aggressive here and get to a sustainable place, than it is for us to be not aggressive enough and cease to exist. I appreciate patience and flexibility as we figure things out.
One part of upgrading that works across other sites and in the broader mental health industry is personalization. i.e., when you provide a tailored solution to a person, then it is more valuable to them. For example, when you go to therapy or to see a psychiatrist, then they interview you and give you a diagnosis. They then provide a treatment to you based on that diagnosis. You can think of this as a sort of personalization. 7 Cups will soon start testing personalized language. We don't yet know how/if it'll work, but it is something we need to test.
Now, to really put things in context, mental health professionals provide either therapy or psychiatric interviews to help clients personalize things. Therapy on the low end runs about $100 USD a session. Psychiatric interviews are several hundred. Monthly cost - at the very low end - is $400 for a tailored treatment. Our 7 Cups growth path is not therapy or psychiatric help, but it is a personalized way to help people with a particular issue. Again, to put this in context, 7 Cups would run you $5, $7.99, or $12.99/month. Think about those cost differences. 7 Cups - at the most expensive rate is 7% of the costs of monthly mental health treatment. Stated another way, 7 cups is $387 cheaper than low end mental health services.
We've still got a lot to figure out here. Like with everything on 7 cups, it takes time to review the data, iterate, and tweak things. We've done this with group support, the growth path, and the feed. We are doing it now with back us/upgrade. It'll be a process, but we'll have all of the puzzle pieces fitting together in a clear way in the next couple of weeks.
@GlenM
I've been quiet for a few days because I wanted to think on this before I said anything, and really think about what it is that rubs me the wrong way. I also didn't want to say anything I would later regret.
Coming back, I feel kind of baffled by this message (and the one prior), and I need to get this off my chest before it eats me. I know it'll probably get skimmed over as some disgruntled member's rant, but I need to say this, and I'll do it as politely as I can.
Why not utilize the community in these decisions/questions? Why not ask us how we want to give you our money, or how we want to be asked for money? You seem to be assuming the only thing you can do is just test all your ideas on us aggressively, and see which sticks before the company collapses; which not only seems more convoluted than brainstorming with your community, but also seems like a strategy you would utilize in a online store, not a site for mental help.
Why not come to us and say "Hey guys, here's the bills, we need to make this sustainable, and you can help!"?
We're a community of helpers, let us help!
You also talk as if you can't tell us what you guys are planning, like some of this is only for the company office to know, like it's a 'surprise' for the future (I hate surprises, personally). For me, this is a red flag that you haven't thought this through. Someone asked about their account getting suspended, and if that would cancel their subscription as well, and it was clear you guys hadn't even considered such a situation.
I did something like this when I was in college leading a game production team, and I was absolutely destroyed by my professor for being ill-prepared (granted he was well known for considering things that students wouldn't). My Design Document was unclear, There weren't many "what ifs" that I had planned for, which made production a minefield.
It really hurt the team, because I had no foresight, and I wasn't utilizing the people on my team properly. I viewed the project as something I bestowed onto them, and they completed, which isn't how it works.
Right now, the 7Cups community is your team as much as the people in your office are your team. We may not all be experts in business ventures, but some of us may be! Some of us are college graduates, and have higher education, and actual skills, and knowledge about stuff.
And I know we're all suffering mental health problems here, but we're not incapable of problem solving, brainstorming, and offering solutions.
-Moon
So I was sitting here thinking, @GlenM has nothing better to do right now, so I should ask him a question! Ok, I get this is NOT a charity or not for profit. If you read the "fine print" when you signed up it tells you they make money (probably not a lot) selling our info (minus names etc) to advertisers. This is why EVERY DARN COMPANY wants you to use a loyalty card. Target gives you coupons based on your shopping habits and 5% off your purchase.
So I have no issue "working for free" for a "for profit" company. It makes me feel good, I like it, why not? NO ONE is held here or chained to their desk (except maybe Laura). So if this bothers you, leave. This is a free choice thing. I volunteer for a hospital because I like helping sick people. I heard the nurses talk about the fact ONE DRUG they were using was $600 a vile. So, yeah someone is making money somewhere.
I just have ONE QUESTION / REQUEST. I DO NOT feel that listeners should be paid. My training took me minutes and I was watching old Criminal Minds episodes at the time. Now should people who went to school and got their degree be paid? Not sure I care either way. But I was wondering if you have ever considered a "small token/thanks for helping/we couldn't do it without you" rewards system? Just a idea. But say every listener who took 14 (2 a day) or more chats gets put in the drawing. So every Friday you have a drawing for a $20 gift card to Target or Starbucks or where ever. ESPECIALLY if these companies become partners and they offer this to their employees. I think that being offered the CHANCE for a small gift or prize feels nice to me. I am all for keeping them small, say $10 or $15 and spreading the wealth. So say every Friday 5 cards all worth $10 were given away. MOST of these are available to be sent electronically and I don't see it costing a lot, other than the $50. Maybe Glen will have to cut back on razors to shave his head (I do the same, BTW COSTCO has them at a GREAT price).
So that's it..... WOW this is my most positive post ever. I ALWAYS feel like I am at odds with the leadership. I am TOTALLY FINE with the moves that have been made and I am just being patient to see if issues arrive. You take care of them THEN. I am not going to raise all kinds of issues and try to fix them ahead of time. CLEARLY a ton of time has been spent figuring this out, so who am I to think I bring anything more to the table? I am a Survey Monkey user. I do it and the charity I pick gets 50 cents for every survey I take. They have a "spin the wheel" feature when you are done. Frankly they offer 1 BIG prize. I NEVER win. I like the idea of more SMALLER prizes. Anyway I think that often offering a small thank you goes a long way to the health of the "company-employee" relationship. Ok someone PLEASE agree with me, because if not I am going to cry and have to pay to see my therapist AGAIN..... so sad!
@AndyDufresne1994 will respond more in-depth later, but want to be 100% clear that we do not sell anyone's information. I've heard this in the past and it is completely false.
@GlenM
Glen, my first reaction was to apologize and beg forgiveness. I went back and reread the TOS to make sure I wasn't making things up. I found what I read before. Frankly all I will say now is you might want to update how the TOS is worded. Because right now it read...
"7 Cups of Tea may use the information furnished by the Listener, as well as information that it collects regarding use patterns and transactions that are conducted through 7CupsofTea.com, in order to improve 7CupsofTea.com, to analyze statistical information regarding 7CupsofTea.com, and to furnish such statistics to third parties, including advertisers. Information furnished to third parties will not identify the Listener personally."
I don't understand how you could read this and NOT assume that means you are selling information to advertisers. You are right, I have had this conversation with many listeners and we all came to the same conclusion. I look forward to hearing where we went wrong.
@AndyDufresne1994 @GlenM
Glen, this was pointed out to me a few days ago as well and I was surprised as you had mentioned to me that you don't sell that information. There is also a lot of information about payment for listeners etc. last time I looked at the TOS. Perhaps this would be a good time to start updating the TOS?
Hi,
So... We have seen and participated in a lot of discussions and maybe arguments about this update. This is a shoutout to a big part of the community that supports the update. This post is not about the update itself, it's about how we're dealing with it as a community.
First of all, I do understand that 7 cups needs financial support, I do understand that @GlenM considered all options and decided to try the one that sounded stable the most. I do understand that it's completely optional for any person to pay or not to pay.
However, let's please remember that we're here on 7 cups to support people whether they are members or even listeners and we have a duty of showing understanding to their feelings. If a listener thinks that the visibility of the badge in the chatrooms promotes popularity issues or any sort of unhealthy competition, let's please respect that, if anyone of you think it's wrong or immature for a listener to think this way please remember that none of us is in a position to tell anyone how to feel. If they feel this way then they simply feel this way.
As for the perks available for members, some of you explain that the original services are free and will continue to be free, and that the new perks are "Additions". Well this is true for existing members, but this is not how new joining members are going to perceive it, they'll come to 7 cups to simply see that there are two kinds of accounts, one is for free and one is charged.
How do you think a poor member will feel when they see other members enjoying and discussing their personalized paths and other perks this member simply couldn't get because they're poor? I really think we can all agree on one answer for that, but what is honestly annoying is that No one answered this question. I know we implemented the best plan to back 7 cups but why can't we admit that this plan is not damage-free? is it so bad to admit that we live in a world where perfect solutions do not exist? Why is it so difficult to acknowledge the feelings of those who are upset? why do we insist on making it sound like everything is okay when it's really not the case for everyone? why don't we show that we actually feel sorry for the ones who were hurt by this update even if they were few?
Showing more respect and understanding of the feelings of those who are upset about the update does not mean you are against the update, and trying to refute their feelings will only cause more stress and make it much more difficult for them to accept the change.
Luka
@Luka
You are right that people's feelings need to be respected and acknowledged and understood, all around.
At the same time it is best for people to speak directly to their own feelings where possible and perhaps not as much on how they are certain other people must feel.
I do think that people who are supportive of a site change or idea can sometimes "gang up" on people who have doubts, just the same as how people who don't like a change can sometimes also stir each other up.
So while I agree with almost everything you said and 100% agree with the sentiment, when I read this:
How do you think a poor member will feel when they see other members enjoying and discussing their personalized paths and other perks this member simply couldn't get because they're poor? I really think we can all agree on one answer for that...
I found myself thinking, "No, I don't think we can all agree on one answer for that." I think different people will respond differently. For example, "seeing other people enjoying" is hard to imagine, especially in a negative sense. Now, overhearing a discussion of something that is out of reach can make someone feel excluded, of course, and this may lead to etiquette issues just as we might consider it rude to sit in a chat room bragging about all your fancy cars and how you don't have to go to school because your father is a billionaire and hired you a tutor or about how tall you are or whatever....
...but what is honestly annoying is that No one answered this question.
If the question was stated somewhere and ignored, I'm sorry for that now. While I don't agree that it's a no-brainer that people will feel bad overhearing discussions of perks, I do agree with your larger point that any change has pluses and minuses and we need to acknowledge the cost of things and not just their benefits.
I know we implemented the best plan to back 7 cups but why can't we admit that this plan is not damage-free?
I think we can all acknowledge it involves risk, that it may cause a mix of good and bad outcomes, and that it behooves us to keep experimenting till we find the best balance possible.
Thanks for raising these difficult issues. @GlenM and the rest of the staff and I are all listening very hard.
@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn
Thank you for your reply :) I can see that we agree on so many points which is really great!
My post my seem out of context to some people, and I want to explain that I decided to write it after spending few hours in the chatrooms before and during the Community call Glen gave, and based on what I have seen during these few hours, I can be very sure I'm expressing a real problem and I'm not making assumptions. I saw things that drove other people to be upset, using a not very friendly language, using caps, and heating up the conversation. I'm a part of the community and I cannot limit my posts to my personal experience. I think I have the right to talk about what I think some members of my community are feeling, and anyone is totally free to reply to me saying that the case is different for them, I did not specify any usernames and I was so general. On the other hand, many supporters dealt with this issue in a very wonderful way and I thank them for that.
I should make this clear, my post was focused on the way of handling only a part of the supporters showed, and not all of them, and when I talked about the ones who are not happy with the update I shouldn't have included all of them. I of course did not assume I'm speaking on behalf of the whole community, and this leads me to talking about the second point:
I found myself thinking, "No, I don't think we can all agree on one answer for that." I think different people will respond differently.
That's really fair, so not all members in this situation are going to feel the same, but I really think it's fair to say that it is very expected that a poor member who cannot get these perks will feel bad because If we expect that poor members will not care or won't feel bad, then maybe the perks are not doing the job they were designed for - which is encourage members to pay money to get them, and we'd be contradicting ourselves. The perks were designed to be wanted and to have a value.
Thank you so much for your reply, thank you for acknowledging most of my points, and for all of you for listening to us :)
@Luka I would be one of those "poor" members you're referring to.
I am a bit bummed of course that I am unable to have access to the new additions made to the site, but I also rely greatly on this site and the good it's done for me. I certainly wouldn't want the company to go under because it was worried about hurting my feelings. Especially when it helps so many other people every day. I also acknowledge that I never once asked for more from the site and I was doing fine with what I had access to before I knew more would be added. And because I was doing okay before, I'll be okay now.
Yes, it causes me to think more about my financial situation and everything I'd like to do but can't right now; but again, then I think about what it would be like without 7 cups and I think I'd be in a much more difficult place than the place this new update has put me in. And in putting that in perspective, I would rather feel a little discomfort now than experience a lot of discomfort by not having 7 cups and the wonderful people I've met here at all.
Now, I will say the "Want to feel better? Subscribe now to feel better!" signs are annoying and possibly add more to the discomfort than anything. But, I choose to pick my battles. If seeing those get to me, I go on another site until all is forgotten.
I may be a bit broken but I'm not fragile. I appreciate those who think about the what ifs, I am one of those people as you will see on the first page of this topic; however, I also accept that changes are a part of life and I can either fight the current or adjust my sails.
I choose to adjust my sails on this one. But, at the end of the day, this is just my perspective and others may choose to do something else.
@Luka nailed it 100%