Addition of Community Service Model to Behavioral Points System

@QuietMagic @ListeningDoll Yes, definitely needs to be reported.

@ASilentObserver @7cupscommunity can this be looked into fairly quickly?

@QuietMagic

@ListeningDoll

Great, glad that it's been reported. And it sounds like it's been tested as well. (Kudos to the volunteer, lol. 💜)

@QuietMagic

That's the point I was making users behavior should be consistent with guidelines etc

At the same time clear guidelines are needed but not at the expense of the integrity of the site and the dignity of the people here

@imaginativePear6493

> I guess it's the grey area that's bothering you?

If I tell you to jump and you ask me how high and I say I'm not telling you but if you get it wrong, you'll be punished.. that isn't a grey area, it's abuse.

To be clear, I don't think it was intentionally designed to be that way but now it has been identified, it remaining that way is intentional.. either "don't use censored words" needs to be dropped as an instruction given by Mods or people need to be provided with the means to know what the censored words are so they can follow the instruction.

> Pls don't take my opinion personal.

I don't. I'm just discussing this with you and I've not seen you say anything that is "attacking me". Are you anxious because you weren't sure if you were upsetting me by accident?

> I guess what I'm tryna say is that manipulation takes many forms, I've experienced it.

So have I. Why do you think I'm so aware of this behaviour being abusive? Part of the frustration I have with it is that of all the places, 7cups should be aware too!

> A lot of the time it can be really subttle and if you're not aware of it then it can go un noticed and spread. I just want to help stop this kinda stuff. That's what I meant about the whole intent or malice thing

Which is exactly why I brought up what I did. You kind of make it sound like you think my intent is something other than "please fix this, it is causing damage"..

> Sometimes things can have a negative impact and the person doesn't realise it that's what I meant by misunderstood or intentioanal there's a difference

I know that. But now it's known that it is having a negative impact, it remaining as it is becomes intentional!

@ListeningDoll

Sorry that was t a loaded question there's no need to be so defensive.

Either unsensor or tell what the censored words are makes sense.

That seems to be triggering you I'm sorry about that sublltle manipulation and indirect abuse is kinda like being patronising. There's no need for it

I m not sure how word sensoring is abuse?

@ListeningDoll

"know that. But now it's known that it is having a negative impact, it remaining as it is becomes intentional!"

That's exactly what I was saying that's where I agree but I dont understand how that works with the words being sensored just the use of them

So should the words be sensored? And should they tell about them?

@ListeningDoll

Can you point out the specific conflicts? I am hopeful that things are in the process of developing a better system. Having the specific points brought ut may help with what's to come.

@AffyAvo

I reported the most obvious problem (the one that makes it practically impossible not to violate your oath within 24 hours) mid-December and looking at the "Listeners Oath" thread, it got fixed 3 days ago.. silently, as it is not mentioned the oath has been changed anywhere that I can see.

Amusingly, this makes it really obvious who is taking the oath by copying older oaths as they contain that fragment from the previous oath text. :)

Just fyi, all of the original post is blacked out. Except a few blue words that state the behavioral point system.

again just fyi I’m not complaining just saying that it’s not readable and I’d like to learn more abt this and get things back on track with the help of 7Cups.

im on an iPhone se 2020. It’s updated and things. No I’m not wealthy or anything it was a gift fwiw but Yh, every post after the original reads in white and is fine.

idk.

@JustWant2bWell that happens on the app I guess? Did you try the browser version?

@JustWant2bWell Thank you for sharing Well, I passed the feedback to the tech team on it but please follow the steps as suggested by @TorahT Thank you Torah for quick help and support <3

No. But that’s a very good question.

I am using the mobile version.

@JustWant2bWell

Ah okay, I don't know why else would that happen 🙁

Thx for trying to look into it :)

@JustWant2bWell

How does the text appear after you follow these steps:

1. Open your profile picture.
2. Scroll down to Application theme.
3. Turn off Automatic theme detection.
4. Turn off Dark mode.

@ASilentObserver it makes the process a bit more less intimidating, i feel this what we all needed. Improvisation. I'm glad we have such a community team who thinks about new addition.

@ASilentObserver i really like this idea and i think it'll help the community out a lot as well as the quality of the listening ! :) <3 thank you so much

Just want to say a quick thank you to whomever it was that deleted the entire conversation I had with @imaginativePear6493 without informing me why.. perfectly proving exactly the point I had been making during that discussion.

@ListeningDoll

I didn't delete it, but if I were to guess it was due to some posts in that back-and-forth exchange starting to cross a line with respect to forum guidelines #2 and #11.

If you would like confirmation of what happened, my suggestion would be to PM one of the Community Ambassadors (CheeryMango, Mel, Asher, Azalea98). I don't know exactly who the contact is for investigating forum edits, but one of them should be able to point in the right direction.

***

Just summarizing what I can recall from those posts that felt like it was helpful for identifying and trying to resolve issues with the site:

1. Certain words on the censor list are unintuitive or things that a person wouldn't expect to be censored for
   
2. Moderators currently warn/punish listeners for any censored words
   
3. The combination of #1 and #2 results in a situation that feels unfair (i.e. listeners punished for breaking rules that they don't know exist)
   

HERE is the censor update form if you'd like to provide feedback on #1
HERE is the community feedback form if you'd like to provide feedback on #2

@QuietMagic Thanks for summarizing.

I would like to hear why so multiple posts were deleted.

Multiple were on topic and did not violate any forum guidelines in my opinion.

@QuietMagic

My posts did not violate #2 and #11. The last one I posted was letting the person I was talking to know they had been insulting/demeaning and that I wasn't talking with them further until they stopped. That is helpful. If I thought they were doing it on purpose, why would I need to tell them that? How would they know they might need to consider what they say without that feedback? Am I not allowed to give feedback to the person I'm talking to that they are insulting me, when I think they are doing it by accident?

Also, seems like my point still wasn't clear..

Moderators instruct people to not use words on the censor list.
Failure to follow this instruction invites punishment.
A list of words you are not allowed to use is not provided, even when requested.
It is therefore, not possible to follow the instruction.

Please don't get hung up on my example of ginger, that was just to show that you don't have to say like.. well-known swear words to say a censored word..

This isn't a "feels" unfair situation. It is unfair. An instruction that cannot be followed is fundamentally unjust. It is an impossible task. It puts you in a "no-win" situation. Again, I don't think 7cups intended to mimic a tactic that abusers use against their victims (such impossible tasks are very useful as justifications for "at discretion punishment", keeping the target afraid and anxious even when not engaged with them etc) but that is how it is working.

It's not like I am asking for some massive overhaul of the system to prevent it.. I just want Moderators to be told to stop giving that instruction and let the censor do its job.. maybe a review of other systems to check that aren't also mimicking abuser tactics. I would like to ask for my posts to be reinstated though (and @imaginativePear6493's, if they are okay with that).

@ListeningDoll My understanding is the system isn't set up to reinstate posts, only if entire threads are deleted.

@AffyAvo Even that is allmost impossible to find someone who can!

@mytwistedsoul Yeah, not many people have been provided the capability to do it.

@ListeningDoll

Thanks for clarifying and filling in some details that I either missed or may have misunderstood/understated.

My suggestion is to reach out through the feedback channels that I mentioned:

• PM a community ambassador to ask about the reason for the forum editing and whether posts can be reinstated
  
• Use the censor update form if there are specific censor updates you would like
• Use the community feedback form for anything else pertaining to changing rules or how they are applied