writing space

My responses to the "7 Cups Strengths and Weaknesses Community Assessment"

What are the top 3 strengths of 7 Cups?

1) General culture of reverence/respect for individuals' thoughts, feelings, and experiences, including many marginalized expressions (e.g. of negative feelings/experiences) that may not be safe or okay to express in most real-life situations

2) Large, diverse base of users who cover a broad range of niches/backgrounds and are able to spontaneously/autonomously self-segregate based on shared interests/needs

3) Forum divided into many distinct spaces (each with their own specific rules/expectations) so that different types of people can gather and have their specific needs met in a targeted/focused way by like-minded others

What are the top 3 weaknesses of 7 Cups?

1) Insufficient/ill-enforced training, supervision, and oversight of listeners; has negative effects on both members (who receive substandard support) and listeners (who are sometimes thrown unprepared into highly challenging chats).

2) Lack of advance notice, collaboration, and discussion with community members prior to significant site-altering changes, with the following (completely preventable) effects:
-Site users feel alienated, misunderstood, voiceless, distrustful of site administration, and as though their feelings are not being considered or respected
-Site users experience the transition/rollout of these changes as sudden, volatile, chaotic, and disruptive
-Site users generally feel unsafe, uneasy, and anxious about the site due to the unpredictability of not knowing whether some feature that they use heavily might disappear tomorrow without any warning

3) Lack of clearly communicated, easy-to-find, well-organized, **responsive** processes/spaces for submitting feedback/questions regarding specific incidents occurring on the site (e.g. reporting/disputing rule infractions, knowing what to expect from the process after reporting/flagging a rule infraction, asking for clarification of site rules).

If you could wave a magic wand and make one thing different about 7 Cups...

Create a clear, hierarchical forum organization where it is possible to quickly and easily find the appropriate location for site rules/guidelines, site feedback, listener training/tips, etc. without having to sift through a list of dozens of forums and guess where the thing I'm looking for might be.

What is the thing that you are most proud of about on your work on 7 Cups? How has that personally impacted you?

I am proud that at times I have been able to provide effective support as a listener in spite of feeling very isolated/alienated on this site due to not knowing whether the listening I am providing is 7Cups-approved, given that:

1) Listener expectations are inconsistently enforced (i.e. ~75% of the general request chats I've experienced in the past as a member were with listeners who do not follow the listener training recommendations, usually to my detriment)

2) Listener expectations are inconsistently presented (e.g. the introductory listener training materials present a non-directive, client-centered intervention model but 95% of the other topic-specific guides in the listener trainings/certification section contradict the listener training and push a directive, cognitive-behavioral intervention style)

Please provide us with any additional information you think would be helpful as we audit our community strengths and weaknesses.

Regarding feedback critical of the site, I recommend an alternative to the sandwich model of constructive criticism, which is stronger/more consistent enforcement of existing 7Cups posting guidelines. Forum rules prohibit abuse of "other users in the community", which of course includes site/community leaders. Posts which present feedback in a way that is grossly rude, unconstructive, or disrespectful can and should be moderated per Forum Guidelines Rule #2:

"Unsupportive content including targeting or attacking other users in the community is not allowed. Disagreements may happen, but always maintain a respectful tone and try to move the conversation forward in an on-topic and constructive way. Sometimes this means agreeing to disagree."

mood: dream pop
cranes - cloudless

Just for my own future reference, can create URL's that will jump to a specific post in a thread by searching for "div id" in source. E.g.

https://www.7cups.com/forum/GeneralSupport_28/DiaryEntriesConnections_1597/writingspace_210130/2/#forum-post-2127639

There is a lot of writing that I really want to do, but it relies heavily upon personal theory/concepts I haven't shared yet. Main goal of this post is to fill that gap.

Background: personal systems

There are two systems/theories/models that I use frequently.

1) Self-states/energies

One is the self-state system that I've previously shared/used in multiple posts. First post where I described it was this post. And then the most systematic/comprehensive expression I've given of it is in this post.

2) "Core" needs

The other system is basically my personal version of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. I'm surprised but I really haven't talked about it yet. The only place I was able to find it was this this post, but even that doesn't explain it in the usual way.

Core system: past/standard formulation

Here's how I've usually conceptualized or organized this system in the past: four parts.

1) Base = physical energy, work/responsibilities, theory, personal safety
2) Immersion
3) Expression = introspective writing, sharing
4) Helping

Core system: alternative/newer formulation

I did some writing about this about a week ago that I ended up not sharing. This was what I came up with.

1) Physical
2a) Safety
2b) Responsibility
3) Immersion
4) Theory
5) Writing
6) Expression
7) Helping

Miscellaneous thoughts about this model: prioritization

These items are basically listed by priority level. So, it's similar to Maslow where you've got the base of the pyramid and then stuff works upwards. I just have a slightly different list, and things are in a different order.

Miscellaneous thoughts about this model: "social" needs

Something you may be asking is, "Where do social needs fit into this?" For example, Maslow's model has "belongingness". And most models I've seen of "wellness" (usually with 5-8 different dimensions or aspects) have "Social" in there, e.g.

"Social" probably maps to the following elements in my system:

-Safety = on the basis of 1) satisfying physical needs and 2) greatly limiting how much I share with people, establishing some minimal feeling of comfort/competence/control in basic work/social environments that I'm forced to exist in on a daily basis (i.e. people that I can't avoid coming into contact with)
-Responsibility = doing what I'm supposed to do (e.g. job/to-do list), fulfilling social obligations, trying to avoid harming people in gross/obvious ways that cause me to feel guilty
-Expression = feeling as though I'm able to share my feelings/thoughts and they will be understood, accepted, and appreciated; feeling as though there is some connectivity between my inner self and the outer world
-Helping = feeling as though I'm able to contribute something positive, meaningful, or beneficial to others or the world in general such that my existence is a net positive

So:
1) If "Social" is just being able to exist around other people in a basic/trivial way without feeling absolutely awful, it would be the first two items of "Safety" and "Responsibility".
2) If "Social" is something more advanced of me being able to exist more authentically, share my true self, have connections with people (e.g. the type of stuff I'm trying to do on this website), then that would fall under the last two items of "Expression" and "Helping".

Miscellaneous thoughts about this model: expression vs. helping distinction

There is definitely some overlap between "Expression" and "Helping".
-Some expression might be helpful (e.g. sharing my thoughts in this thread might help someone)
-Some helping might be expressive (e.g. in the process of trying to help someone, I might end up sharing some of myself and feeling like I'm being understood/valued)

But I'd say that the distinction I'm making is the following:
1) Expression = self-centered (wanting to be seen/heard/loved)
2) Helping = other-centered (wanting to help other people)

Expression might be indirectly helpful, and helping might be indirectly expressive, but what defines expression is that it is fulfilling self-needs... and what defines helping is that it is fulfilling other-needs.

Miscellaneous thoughts about this model: Member vs. Listener distinction

I'd say that the expression vs. helping distinction above is relevant/central to the Member vs. Listener distinction

-Listener = an account on which a person is expected to prioritize helping over expression at all times (if the two are in conflict) and most if not all activities should be of a helping nature (i.e. being of benefit to other people)
-Member = an account on which a person can do either expression or helping in whatever proportion they want

Some additional topics that come to mind but which are complex and beyond the scope of this post:
1) Listener activities are not just restricted to helping, but also within helping to the specific type/brand of helping ("listening") that is prescribed by 7Cups.
2) Therefore, analogous to something I mentioned in a past post that there may be psychologically beneficial forms of expression that are restricted/off-limits on this website, there may also be some psychologically beneficial forms of helping that are restricted/off-limits on this website. (Though it's a bit less clear what is/isn't allowed for listeners.)

Miscellaneous thoughts about this model: theory as basic or advanced need

I keep changing my mind about whether "Theory" is a basic need or more advanced need. For now, it feels like an advanced need because the main theory I want to develop that is cutting-edge for me is stuff related to expression/helping.

Miscellaneous thoughts about this model: theory vs. writing vs. expression

The theory/writing/expression distinction is really fuzzy and something I keep changing my mind about... but here's how I have it split out here:

-Theory = having a solid plan/model/theory/system for what I'm doing
-Writing = engaging in open-ended introspection, processing of feelings/thoughts
-Expression = sharing aspects of self with other people

Theory is more solid/fixed (wanting to know how I'm organizing my life and what my overall/high-level strategy is) while writing is an experimental/fluid thing.

And writing (processing of feelings) can be either solitary or social, while expression is social.

Miscellaneous thoughts about this model: system elements vs. real-world meaning

In the section above, I've said that self-expression is always social. Obviously, someone could disagree with that and say, "Well, but painting by myself still feels expressive/creative even if I don't share it with anyone."

Here is where I need to make a very sharp distinction between two types of language:
1) System language = the definitions that I am giving to words in the context of my model that belongs to me
2) Real-world language = how people typically use words and expect them to be understood in everyday life

This is one of the primary reasons that I tend to use shorthand when I'm describing my models (see this post for explanation/examples). The word "exp" belongs to me alone. The word "expression" belongs to other people.

I have decided not to use my personal shorthand while writing this current post for the sake of clarity/readability.

Brainstorming

I did some brainstorming today (see this post for prior example/explanation), and I'm finding that things seem to be lumping themselves into pretty much the same groups.

self-dialogue

1 = most compassionate version of listener me
2 = most honest version of member me

assumption: listener me is familiar with most of member me's posts

***

9:40 pm

1: hello
2: hi
1: my name's ***
2: i'm ***
1: nice to meet you
1: what would you like to talk about?
2: i'm sorry
2: i'm not sure
1: that's okay
2: i'm sorry, i feel like i'm wasting your time
1: ah, by not knowing what you want to talk about?
2: well, i feel like i do know
2: but, i'm not sure how to get to there
2: or if it's safe
1: you feel like you have some idea what you might want to talk about, but you're not sure what the best way is to approach it
2: yeah, i'm so nervous
2: i haven't really talked much about myself
2: and although i know this is supposed to be a one-on-one chat, i know i'm going to post this on the forum, so there are a lot of eyes watching me
1: it's nervous feeling like people might see what you're writing
2: i don't want people to see my feelings
2: it's so much easier to not have feelings
2: or to retreat
2: and yet on the other hand, sometimes i really do have to retreat to avoid reneging on responsibilities
2: it's a combination i guess
1: want to see if i'm understanding
2: sure
1: you feel like there are certain feelings that you'd rather other people not see
2: yes
1: sometimes you retreat because of that, but sometimes you retreat because you're just busy
2: yeah
2: sorry, i'm not sure where i'm going with this exactly
2: i don't want to make things difficult for you
2: i'm sorry
1: you wish you had a sort of plan for what you're going to say
1: and because you don't, you wonder if maybe you're taking up my time or going to slowly?
2: i don't feel like you owe me anything
2: you're here talking to me because you've volunteered to do so
2: and i feel appreciative, because i feel like you're probably... well, i don't want to make assumptions about how you're feeling [1 hearted this post]
2: but, i know there are other things you could be doing
2: i don't feel like i have a right to talk to someone like you
2: but at the same time, i don't really want someone to try to convince me that i do have a right... i really feel that i don't... and i feel like i have some intuitive reason for that [1 hearted this post]
1: okay for me to see if i'm understanding?
2: sure
1: you feel like you don't have a right to talk to me.
1: but i feel like in saying that, you mean that, you just don't want to assert that you have some right to my time, when you know that i'm here as a volunteer
1: and, you feel as though maybe someone is going to come along and try to convince you, "no, you do have a right to this listener's time" {2 hearted this}
1: but you'd feel like that was something a bit forceful, or like it was overriding or ignoring or bypassing your intuition or own feelings that are saying to you that you don't feel like you have a right to other people's time {2 hearted this}
2: yeah... like for me, i feel like there's a sort of bottomless well i can open up
2: where maybe i'll start depending on someone and it'll be infinite
2: it's really uncomfortable
2: i feel like i have to put limits on myself or else i will completely swallow up other people
2: it's well and good for people to say, "oh, you can share anything" or "whatever you want is acceptable"
2: but... like to use an analogy, my housemates told me about someone who used to live with them where they told that person, "help yourself" to what's in the fridge.
2: there was a full box of doughnuts that my housemates bought, and this other person "helped themselves" to all but one of them.
2: so, my housemates had to come back and clarify, "when we said 'help yourself', that isn't what we meant"
2: so, it's something like that... it's super uncomfortable. people mean well, but i really will take advantage of them. i really will suck them dry. i will destroy them with my neediness.
1: yeah, sort of like, if you gave in and didn't hold back, you'd take all of their doughnuts, and all of the nice people who offered to help or support you would be like, "whoa, i was only offering one, not the whole box."
2: yeah...
2: and it's not as though i want to take everyone's doughnuts.
2: and i feel like i have a choice in the matter.
2: like, it's up to me whether i want to be needy or not.
2: i'm not sure if that makes sense or not
2: i've known people who feel like they don't have a choice over what they feel
2: and i feel that way too to some extent
2: and it's one of those ripple effects that i'm feeling right now knowing that people are reading what i'm writing {1 hearted this}
2: i'm worried that i'll say something wrong, and someone who's reading this will be hurt by it
2: that connects to another topic, but... i'm kind of all over the place
2: i'm sorry
1: i feel like there's a flow to what you're saying {2 hearted this}
1: it's okay for things to move around. i'm along for the ride. :) {2 hearted this}
2: thank you
1: would it be okay for me to try to summarize what you said above?
2: sure
1: you were saying that you feel like there's a needy side to you where if you allow yourself to feel it fully, you might "suck other people dry" {2 hearted this}
1: at the same time though, you feel like you're aware of this, you don't want this to happen, so you sort of restrain or limit that side a bit {2 hearted this}
1: and at the same time, you're worried that by expressing this, it might come across as disapproving of or judging people on the forum who might be reading this who do express or channel their needy side more fully {2 hearted this}
2: yes
2: you kind of nailed it with the last part
2: it's really complicated
2: it's like... if i judge myself, and then i express that, then maybe other people will feel like i'm judging them
2: so there are all of these limitations on what i can and can't say
2: though i guess someone could come along and say, "well, it's your space, just say whatever and don't think about other people"
2: but i don't feel like i can do that
2: or i can but it won't feel good {1 hearted this}
2: it's bad enough that i'm trying to use this space and get attention
2: like, if on top of that, the stuff that i am saying that's taking up other people's time is hurting them as well...
2: i don't feel too happy imagining that {1 hearted this}
1: you don't like to imagine a situation where you're sharing stuff and not only are you taking up people's time, but they might feel worse or more stressed or maybe be psychologically injured as a result of reading what you're writing {2 hearted this}
2: yes!
2: like, if that's going to happen, if i'm someone who is just going to infect other people, i'd rather remove myself.
2: and i don't mean in the sense of doing anything drastic that would shorten my lifespan
2: i mean just, maybe this isn't something that i need
2: maybe i don't need to be around other people
2: there are a lot of people who maybe need that more strongly
2: but, i've spent a lot of time by myself
2: i've spent years having thoughts and feelings, processing them on my own, and developing a very self-sufficient sort of lifestyle where i can pretty much do anything without needing anyone else {1 hearted this}
2: (i mean, of course there's some interdependence like, i depend on my employer for my job, i go to the grocery store using a car and depend on people in all kinds of small ways.)
2: (but like on an emotional level...)
2: maybe i'm someone who's wired in such a way that they don't need people as much
2: but...
2: it's like as soon as i say that and try to affirm that or act upon it, there's almost a sort of gasping/wailing cry from the depths, like some part of myself i sense that is deeply needy that emerges as if to say, "no we do need people--don't remove yourself please" {1 hearted this}
2: and i know when i joined this website, it was while i was in a state like that where i felt pretty desperate
2: so, it's all good and well for me to say that i'm independent because i have things sorted out a little as a result of joining this site... but it's like, maybe if i try to mess with that, the balance will be completely disrupted
2: and i am scared of doing something that will scare other people away or leave me "in the lurch"... and sort of getting caught in that needy position but feeling like i don't have anyone to rely upon because i've annoyed or pushed away all of those people {1 hearted this}
2: and it'll be like, "oh, you. what do you want? why are you bothering me?"
2: but, i know that's how i feel and think toward other people, so i sort of deserve it.
2: like, i'm that person who will push other people away and feel like they don't have a right to expect anything of me or depend on me in grotesque ways. and i really really prize my independence and freedom.
2: so it feels only fair that i should prize and value and respect other people's freedom... and that when i'm in this needy or dependent state, i don't get in their way or lean on them too heavily or make grossly unfair expectations of them to do anything for me... because i don't like it when people expect things of me when i want to be by myself or independent or have solitude. {1 hearted this}
2: i like living unfettered. the only way i can consistently or non-hypocritically continue living like that is if i don't place expectations on other people to be or do anything for me
2: and like, if they want to, then great. but, i hate this feeling of forcing or pressuring other people to do stuff against their will. or even if they want to, it's always a slippery slope. once i have you in my clutches and i'm grasping onto you, good luck trying to escape. especially if you're a nice person. then you're going to feel guilty for even thinking about trying to leave me. and that's a problem. {1 hearted this}
2: i don't want people to feel guilty or uncomfortable because of me. {1 hearted this}
2; i don't want to create problems for other people.
2: i don't want to be a headache for other people.
2: i don't want to depend on other people or have other people depend on me if everybody just gets badly bruised and hurt as a result and it just makes everything incredibly messy and horribly convoluted and intense. {1 hearted this}
2: and i feel badly for all of the people i've depended on in the past who were inconvenienced by me.
2: and i feel badly for all of the people who've depended on me that i've let down, sometimes in gruesome ways.
2: it's... well, i'm sorry. {1 hearted this}
2: as i'm saying this, here i am expecting you to listen to me
2: and hoping for someone to read this infinite wall of text
2: it's not something that anybody should have to respond to
2: [sigh] i'm sorry {1 hearted this}
1: you're incredibly good at expressing yourself {2 hearted this}
2: thanks... some good it does though. just harms a bunch of people. {1 hearted this}
1: would it be okay for me to read through what you've written slowly and try to make sure that i'm following? {2 hearted this}
2: i wish i could heart that twice... yes absolutely {1 hearted this}
2: again, i'm so sorry for writing so much {1 hearted this}
2: i'm sorry if i'm hurting you {1 hearted this}
1: <3 {2 hearted this}
1: i really feel the earnestness of your not wanting to hurt people, and how much suffering it causes you to imagine that. {2 hearted this}
1: i'm going to start reading through what you've written. {2 hearted this}
2: thank you
2: i don't want to impose anything by saying "take your time", as if to say, "please spend lots of time reading this," but just want to say that i won't be upset if it takes time or if it isn't something quick... but ugh, i'm twisting myself in knots {1 hearted this}
1: it's okay :) i know what you mean. i'm going to take as long as i need. there's a lot here that i want to understand. {2 hearted this}
2: <3
2: i don't deserve your time... thanks so much
1: i really want to respond to that and tell you that you're wrong. :P but i also want to respond to what you've written above, so i'm going to focus on the above. :)
2: haha, okay
1: okay
1: the first thing you said is that you feel like if you're going to infect others, you'd rather not be around people
1: like if you're going to have a negative impact on other people, you'd rather not bother them
1: and then you say that maybe you're someone who might be able to live with that more easily than other people
1: like, if the only way to live non-violently and avoid hurting people is to isolate yourself, maybe that's something you feel like you might be able to tolerate {2 hearted this}
1: but then when you said that, the needy side sort of popped up and said, "no, please don't isolate yourself"
1: and you thought that maybe the sort of security or feeling of, "i'll be fine if i isolate myself" is something that only occurs because you're sort of happy as a result of being on this site... so if you were to take that away, suddenly you feel like you don't have what you want and you are lonely or hungry for people. {2 hearted this}
1: so then you start feeling more generally, "wow, if that's what it's like to be lonely, then i really don't want to do anything that'll offend or scare other people away on the forum. i don't want to feel isolated like that." {2 hearted this}
1: and you worry that maybe by asserting your independence, you'll scare other people away, and they won't be there or they won't take you seriously if you start feeling needy. {2 hearted this}
1: then you shared that you feel like you reject or abandon or fail to help other people who might be depending on you, so you feel like the only way you can justify that is if you yourself don't make excessive demands on people.
1: sort of like, "if i don't ask anything of you, maybe i can get away with not giving you what you're asking of me. because i don't want to give you what you want." {2 hearted this}
1: and you really hate imagining situations where you're exploiting or manipulating someone else to get what you want, or vice versa. it feels really gross to you. {2 hearted this}
1: and you feel like that's what relationships and human connection are in general... people hurting each other in really messy ways when they ought not to. so then coming full circle, you feel like you want to remove yourself from that. and you feel apologetic for existing and bothering other people by existing. {2 hearted this}
1: in the same way that you feel sorry for talking to me and hoping or wanting me to listen to what you have to say... you feel like you're burdening me in a way that no person ought to burden another person. {2 hearted this}
1: or in a way that you wouldn't feel like you'd be able to reciprocate.
2: wow
2: yes, that's pretty much it
2: something i've realized just reading through you paraphasing some of what i've said is... i really have an incredibly cynical/dim view of human beings.
2: and i don't mean like i feel that they're bad people. {1 hearted this}
2: i feel like everyone really is trying their best.
2: and i know what it's like to be a hurt person or an angry person and to really be trying and to feel like everything i do is going to wound or damage other people. {1 hearted this}
2: i really feel like most things that people do are understandable from their own side and basically make sense if you step into their shoes. {1 hearted this}
2: but, that doesn't mean that i necessarily think people make the right choices. {1 hearted this}
2: or i wonder what the value of it all is.
2: like, why is it better for there to be a forum than for there not to be a forum?
2: i'm feeling a bit aggressive or defensive as i'm saying this, but it's almost like, what's the big deal if all of this stuff just dies off and everybody is left on their own. if everybody is ultimately incapable of supporting everybody else, if all dependent relationships are a big f--ing illusion, and everybody is going to abandon and hoodwink and ruin everybody else if they get involved with one another (either by depending too hard and hurting someone else or by being let down after depending too hard and getting hurt)... then like, what's even the point
2: like, at what point can i just be like, "f-- everyone" and go do my own thing and accept that i'm f--ing on my own and that that's how things are and how they should be.
2: and it's not anything wrong with me either {1 hearted this}
2: it's just like... maybe that is just the nature of existence, the nature of human relationships. {1 hearted this}
2: [angry] like, people just can't f--ing do anything to help one another. and the harder they try, the more they f-- it up.
2: and it's not anybody's fault, but it's a f--ing nuisance. {1 hearted this}
1: reading through what you've written
1: yeah, sort of like there's just a kind of existential isolation where even if everybody tries their best and is incredibly kind and good-intentioned, they're still going to hurt one another. and where if everybody is really honest and doing their best, things still go badly. like, there is something about the basic ingredients of the situation that just brings everything to ruin even under the best of circumstances.
1: like if you go deep enough into people's hearts, you will find something poisonous... not in the sense of being something evil, but rather something basic that completely destroys relationships unless if people put a damper on it and accept a certain amount of dishonesty
2: yes, i think that is my basic assumption
2: and that is what i've digested and learned from all of my experiences over the past 10, 15, however many years.
2: it is that there is something about neediness itself that is poisonous.
2: and that's an uncomfortable conclusion to reach, and it's one that potentially hurts a lot of other people on this forum who might be reading this who are in states of neediness. {1 hearted this}
2: and maybe i'll walk it back when i'm needy, and maybe me saying that is just a stepping stone to becoming needy. i don't know. but what i feel right now is that there is something about neediness that has to be reined in, controlled. {1 hearted this}
2: and there's a sort of conflict or contradiction.
2: like, if you are deeply and purely honest and really dig into yourself and do all of this work to explore vulnerability and get in touch with your deepest self, i feel like that's what most people are going to find... there's going to be this naked, infantile self that is just like a crying child wailing out for attention, for affection, for comfort, love, compassion, warmth, etc. {1 hearted this}
2: and yet i feel like to the extent that that child's energy is projected outward as a sort of, "i need/want other people to take care of me..." that's what really starts to cause all kinds of problems
2: and that's where moral ambiguity starts to come about
2: and that's where everything becomes disgustingly complicated {1 hearted this}
2: and where it's incredibly easy to completely annihilate people or hurt them
2: it's a weird thing
2: and i'm not sure what the implications are for me as someone who wants to "help" people
2: it's something i haven't shared yet, but that's something i've been thinking about... i want to eventually start doing listening again
2: that really is my endgame
2: that's what i want to be doing
2: i feel like that's what would be sort of the completion or good ending to whatever story i'm living or experiencing
2: not saying that that would be the end of my life or anything
2: just, i feel like that's where my destiny is propelling me or where i'm meant to be going, and i feel like there's a logical or natural feeling to that
1: you feel like what you want to do or where you're meant to end up is doing listening
1: but you're not sure how that interfaces or intersects with everything that you've been discussing above about neediness, helpfulness, and the sort of moral problems of people depending on one another {2 hearted this}
2: yeah, basically
2: there's also what i said before of--like, let's say i decide i want to become a listener
2: i wonder what that does to my presence on the forum
2: i only have so much time
2: that was something i was thinking about as i was walking earlier today... just trying to figure out how many hours i have in a day
2: i'm sort of rambling, but things are coming fast and furious, sorry {1 hearted this}
2: something i was thinking about is... there are some MBTI tests that tend to have this question gauging judging vs. perceiving that'll be like, "you know how to put every minute of the day to good use". and like if you say yes to it, then you're a J, and no is P.
2: and, it's an item that always struck me as like... wow, i'd love to be doing that.
2: i'd love to be this person sort of "speedrunning" through life just doing everything optimally, efficiently, perfectly. {1 hearted this}
2: sort of like there are these organizations like givewell and all of these charity evaluation organizations that are really looking at trying to find the *best* ways to help people.
2: like, if you have X amount of money to donate and you want it to have the greatest impact, then where is the best place for that money to go where it will actually help the most people, save the most lives, reduce the most suffering, etc. {1 hearted this}
2: and it's not to knock any other causes or say, "these things are bad." i mean, all giving is good. and good intentions are... good. it's just like, if i'm going to be spending my own personal resources, time, and energy on something... i don't want it to be wasted!! {1 hearted this}
2: i want to feel as though what i'm doing really is the best thing that i could be doing. {1 hearted this}
2: like, imagine if you donate $1,000 to something or spend 50 hours on something, and it saves one person's life.
2: but then imagine what if you found out later that there was something else where you could have spent the same $1,000 or spent the same 50 hours and it would have saved *50* people's lives
2: like, from an efficiency standpoint... from the standpoint of doing the greatest amount of good... isn't the latter thing infinitely superior?
2: that's where i feel like my head is going... and where it's always gone. i've just never felt like i've had the means to figure out the best thing to do. and there are always so many factors to consider.
2: but like, that's sort of my ideal... to know exactly what i'm supposed to be doing, and then to simply do it. :) and to feel really confident that i'm doing the right thing. {1 hearted this}
1: yeah, that sounds amazing, to feel as though you really know what you're doing, you're confident that you're doing the best possible thing... and then to be able to just throw yourself passionately and energetically into action on the basis of that confidence. if that were something possible. {2 hearted this}
1: whereas i imagine the alternative is this sort of state where you feel as though everything you're doing is wrong or hurting someone, and you have no idea what you can do that *won't* hurt somebody or be damaging in some way. {2 hearted this}
2: yeah
2: would it be okay for me to ask something?
1: absolutely :)
2: you're someone who is listening to me right now
2: and i feel like you're someone who is helping me
2: but, i don't know, i wonder what your thoughts are about all of this, or what your own feelings are about helping?
2: and i know you probably don't want to tell me what to do, and i'll take whatever you say with a grain of salt, but i'm just curious what your perspective might be {1 hearted this}
2: because i feel like i trust what you have to say, or you're someone who i feel... you're not going to hurt me or force anything onto me, and i feel a certain amount of respect from you for me being able to feel and say and do what i want.
2: so, i don't feel scared of asking for your feelings or opinions, because i know you have some respect for me as a person... and i really appreciate that {1 hearted this}
2: it's something rare and i'm really grateful for it
1: i feel nice knowing that you feel some safety talking to me
1: i want to say as well that if that changes and you feel unsafe, that's acceptable as well. not that i wish to invite such a feeling. :) but you know, i don't want to pin you into having to say, "wow, you're an amazing helper." like, if your feelings do change, then those feelings are what they are, lol.
2: haha, i understand.
1: um, but i've been sort of side-stepping your question. hmm
2: yeah, i noticed ;) {1 hearted this}
1: uh let's see... so your question was what my feelings are about helping
1: and i guess the context is this horribly hard stuff you've been expressing having to do with dependence, independence, neediness, morality, existential isolation, etc.
2: yeah, pretty much :P
1: there are going to be some situations like this where i'm talking with someone like you and i feel like what i have to offer or what i naturally want to do works pretty well
1: and that may not be a permanent thing, but for a certain amount of time, both of us are wired or conditioned in such a way that what i want to be and what you want to be... those two are in sync or have some compatibility
1: like, what you want to do is express yourself in a certain way. what i want is to listen or exist in a certain way. and what each of us want, there's some agreement between them. or it's a sort of thing where we both might benefit as a result of that interaction. {2 hearted this}
1: it's something symbiotic
1: and maybe i'm getting my needs met and there's something ultimately selfish about it, or vice versa. {2 hearted this}
1: but, i guess you've put it nicely in describing your own desire for freedom
1: i feel like something important to me personally is a sort of freedom of movement or mobility of spirit where... if i happen to change from one condition to another, i have the ability to completely drop whatever i was previously doing and let myself change or mold or shift into this new person. {2 hearted this}
1: so i feel like in general, what i'm looking for tends to be a sort of fluidity or flexibility where i can be whatever i want, and depending on how i'm feeling, i have many different possible outlets that i can pour myself into or into which that energy can flow freely. {2 hearted this}
2: yeah, i really feel that, wanting this freedom to be whatever
2: but how do you reconcile that with a situation like this where, as a helper or listener, you're sort of obligated to follow what i'm saying and basically be in sync with me, and you're kind of at the mercy of my whims (and again i'm sorry)
1: haha, you're alright dude
1: i don't feel like i've really fully figured it out
1: i guess i sort of hope or trust that if at some point this becomes too much for me, i'll have the good sense to notice how i'm feeling, notice that my intuition is screaming out at me, "hey don't do this", and i'll let myself stop
1: and i tend to feel that there's something about that intuition where if i ignore it for long enough, eventually it sort of gets more and more urgent, and it's like it's something with its own independent intelligence, almost like a deity or another creature living inside me... and it's really the one running the show
1: like, i have agency or can make choices, but if i choose wrong, some results just aren't livable...
2: so, like you're helping for as long as it feels okay, but you're open to that possibly changing in the future
1: yeah, like for me, wanting to help is something that has arisen from impulses or intuitions in just the same way as the desire to stop helping would come from that
1: it arises from a sort of gut feeling that says, "something isn't right--i really want to be helping people more than i currently am" and this sort of gnawing feeling that eats away. and then eventually if it's ignored for too long, then it builds up and starts wreaking havoc and twsting my arm until it gets its way. {2 hearted this}
1: so yeah, intuition goes in both directions. it isn't really married to anyone particular action. it's a matter of what the right thing at the right moment is. at one moment it might be helping. and at another it might be doing something other than helping.
1: i feel like my helping or identity as a helper or whatever is something secondary to that
1: going back to what you were saying with freedom... it's something where if i'm living according to that fluid intuition, then i can't really be married to any one particular identity. i want to be able to move around
2: but i guess nevertheless, there are still some situations where you feel like doing helping, right? so there are some moments where that entire existential crisis/catastrophe doesn't occur for you? :P {1 hearted this}
1: haha, yeah.
2: so i'm wondering how it is that you feel like you're able to be helpful and have people rely upon you in this sort of helping relationship, without all of those kinds of problems occurring that have to do with this deep neediness or dependence... or conversely this deep pessimism or neediness and desperate need for isolationism.
1: i'm not sure if i've thought about it that deeply or in that sort of context to be able to answer that.
1: i guess when i think of helping, a sort of prototypical example that comes to mind for me is like... if someone i know has a computer issue or needs help figuring out a math problem or something.
1: there are some times when i feel excited that someone is asking me to do something, that i have the necessary skills to be able to help, and that something easy for me can be so beneficial to them.
1: like, maybe it's a 2-minute thing for me but it would take them several hours or they'd never be able to do it... and they're so thrilled and grateful, and yet it's just something i enjoy doing and get a kick out of... so it's win-win.
1: i imagine listening or helping to be something like that. i'm naturally wired in such a way that i don't like being violent to people and i want to create a sort of space for them to feel understood. and if the right people come along who are looking for that, it's like a musical improvisation where everything goes really smoothly and it feels like something magical.
1: i get to do something that i like, and other people are very grateful as well
2: ah, i see
2: i'm not sure if i can imagine myself feeling that way {1 hearted this}
2: it feels risky or far too dangerous {1 hearted this}
2: i appreciate your sharing {1 hearted this}
1: i feel you. like, if it's something that is very difficult, that's where the tradeoffs or moral problems start to emerge. if it's not just an easy 2-minute thing that you enjoy doing.
2: yeah, for sure.
2: i'm starting to feel a bit tired but i appreciate all of your time {1 hearted this}
2: i know i've said this, but i'm sorry for taking it up {1 hearted this}
1: i understand--you don't want to be a burden on me or feel like you're taking something without giving in return
1: i guess, you can feel assured that i'm here by my own free will, i could decide to end this chat whenever i want to, and i've found this chat enjoyable and feel like i'm benefitting personally from engaging with a lot of these issues. {2 hearted this}
2: thanks
2: well, i'll see you
1: yup, take care :)
2: thanks, bye
1: see you

11:50 pm

Control is an amusing thing.

Earlier today, I was drafting a post that was going to explain how I've decided to make it my goal to become a listener again, and how implementing that goal will involve me greatly reducing my forum activity. I was also going to say that I want to keep most of my listener-related theorycrafting and system-building secret. (Partly to keep it pristine, partly because some of my ideas might hurt people if I were to express them.)

So basically, under this proposed plan, I wouldn't be responding to other people's forum posts very much, but I also wouldn't be writing very many posts of my own. So practically speaking, I'd effectively be quitting the forum. (I could say that I'd be checking in now and then, but that's what I'm already doing. At a certain point, it becomes a Sorites paradox where you can only take so much away before you have to ask whether there's anything left at all, lol.)

***

As if to say "nope" to that plan, today I found myself binging on forum activity. Many of my normal habits that have been fairly stable for months have suddenly collapsed. As I'm writing this, I'm now about 3 hours past my usual bedtime, drafting another post. So much for cutting back. So much for my plan/control. :)

Clearly some part of me is pretty dissatisfied, thinks that this is a s*** plan, and is having their way with it/me to demonstrate just how unlivable it would be. It's the usual pattern:
-One side tries to be smug and creates a plan that more or less involves wiping the opposing side out of existence
-The underdog side recognizes this plan for what it is: a bloodthirsty murder plot in which they would be the victim
-The underdog decides that they don't want to go along with that plan and let the other side kill them; they rebel and sabotage the plan by making a complete mockery of it.

I think the dissatisfaction is with the way that I'm approaching this as though I have to *eliminate* one thing in order to add another. Why can't I do both the forum *and* being a listener? I really like the people on here. Why would I decide it's necessary to sacrifice/abandon that?

I guess I'm afraid that if I *don't* make a clean break, it'll be just a worse or even more pronounced version of what I feel is currently happening... where I'm not giving enough or I feel guilty/anxious that people I'm close to on here feel abandoned or let down by my lack of activity/interaction. (And then where that guilt/anxiety feels like it comes into conflict with a completely separate guilt/anxiety that I'm not doing enough to get work done at my real-life job and I'm letting people down there too. And feeling like I have to make a choose between those two... feeling like I'm in a no-win situation where there are no positive choices and I've basically been given a knife and have to decide which person I'm going to injure.)

I guess my thinking was that I wanted to avoid a painful situation later down the road of having to "choose" between the forum and listening--by making that choice upfront. By trying not to bite off more than I can chew by saying, "Oh sure, I'll continue being my usual self on the forum and responding to stuff... while also listening for 2-3 hours per day... and continuing to work my full-time job at which I'm also routinely staying late. And somehow I'll make that work while still exercising for an hour per day, sleeping 7-8 hours per day, and finding some time to do fun things that I enjoy."

***

"In psychoanalytic theory, reaction formation (German: Reaktionsbildung) is a defense mechanism in which emotions and impulses which are anxiety-producing or perceived to be unacceptable are mastered by exaggeration of the directly opposing tendency."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_formation

Anxiety-provoking impulse = wanting to bend over and give anything/everything/all of my self to people on this forum and have a very sticky/dependent sort of bond with them; having a very deep fear of hurting other people, caring a lot about their feelings

Directly opposing tendency = being very afraid of that stickiness, and so counteracting it by asserting a completely opposite of values that emphasizes autonomy, independence, self-sufficiency, detachment, indifference, invulnerability, pretending I don't care about other people, etc.

***

The other thing that's really tripping my wires and causing anxiety is the way that I'm framing this as "I will become a listener". As if I were saying, "I will become a Jedi". It's a rubbish identity. I don't sleep in the evening and then say with pride "I am a Sleeper with a capital S." :) I just sleep when I want to.

I've written multiple posts in the past 2-3 days that have involved me putting identities onto myself that aren't really sustainable. Recently, I got pulled in by the fact that one of those posts received a ton of upvotes. Was it worth trapping myself in a box just to feel like I'm one of the "good guys" or like I'm a valuable member of a community?

That was probably something else that led me want to leave the forum in favor of listening. When I do listening, there is no global identity. I can talk to a person who cheated on their wife and empathize with their values. And then in the very next chat *minutes* later, I can talk to a person who's been cheated on and empathize with their feeling upset. There is no continuity or consistency. It is incredibly satisfying.

Protest the Hero - Limb From Limb

[scene: alice walks in and sees luna lying in bed clutching to a stuffed animal looking scared]

alice: [concerned] luna, are you okay?
luna: [slumped over, whimpering softly hugging animal]
alice: [has a painful feeling in chest] luna...
luna: [breathing heavily]
alice: [comes over to bed]
luna: [sad expression] alice... i'm scared :(
alice: [feels sad seeing luna looking scared] sweetie... :( can i please give you a hug?
luna: [teary, nods]
alice: [climbs into bed and embraces luna]
luna: [feels comfortable if still sad and body relaxes]
alice: [breathing in sync with luna]
luna: [feels less alone while feeling alice's breathing... starts getting emotional at the fact that alice is there for her, hugs alice tightly and presses her body into alice]
alice: [softly pets luna's hair, kisses luna's damp cheeks]
luna: [starts crying more at the fact that someone is taking care of her]
alice: [continues soothing luna] it's okay, sweetie. let's keep breathing together.
luna: [continues crying at the fact that someone is being so caring and loving toward her]
alice: [wipes away luna's tears and kisses her cheeks] you're not alone, sweetie.
luna: [having trouble speaking[
alice: [hugs luna tighter]
luna: [breathes] i want to care for you too...
alice: [kisses luna on forehead] aw, you're so sweet... [gives luna her hand] here, you can hold my hand.
luna: [puts both her hands on alice's--and also has her stuffed animal help hold alice's hand]
alice: [giggles softly at the stuffed animal's affectionate gesture] that's so thoughtful. <3 [kisses the stuffed animal too]

(i feel better writing this <3)

Chronology of my experience of music as a musician

1) Technique

From age 5 to end of high school, learned piano and music theory from a teacher, playing classical music (e.g. Beethoven, Chopin, Bach, Ravel, Liszt). Learned jazz theory through accompanying choral and musical theatre groups. Corresponds to what one might conventionally think of as becoming a good/competent/skillful/impressive musician.

2) Creativity

In early college, discovered new music that went against the grain of music theory.
i) Dissonance/atonality (Schoenberg, Ives)
ii) Focus on drone/trance induction through texture/dynamics, minimalism with respect to melodic/harmonic variation (Spiritualized, Sigur Ros)

Began playing on an out-of-tune piano in college dorm basement that created sounds that subverted my expectations (and perfect pitch). Found this experimentation exciting and rewarding on an intellectual level. (This also provided me with additional colors/forms for expressing emotion in music.)

3) Process

From college to about five years ago, did musical improvisation as:
i) A psychological tool for processing feelings
ii) A meditative tool for inducing altered states of consciousness

Improvisation stages (some analogies to Patanjali's stages of ashtanga yoga in the Yoga Sutras, Western mindfulness, and Gendlin's Focusing):
i) Withdrawal from outside world - transition from normal/dishonest experience to noticing, opening, sensitizing to body and emotions
ii) Mindfulness - following stream of emotions, noticing feelings of pleasure/pain while playing and attempting to playing notes that feel good, harmonizing with my own feelings/body, allowing things to go where they want to go and following without obstructing
iii) Quietude - mindfulness leads to gradual quieting or subduing of intensity, single-pointedness, increased sensitivity where only very subtle/quiet/immobile sounds of a drone-like nature feel peaceful

Side-note/tangent: ii) mindfulness and iii) quietude as worldviews

The 2nd and 3rd points represent slightly different philosophies with respect to meditative processes and emotions, which are coincidentally analogous to the goals of my 2nd (chaotic) and 3rd (sensitive) self-states:

2 = follow all feelings as they present themselves without preferring one over the other or attempting to reach any particular end result with the attitude that all feelings are good, and wishing for whatever needs to happen to happen
3 = prioritize reaching a quiet state that has purer, more gentle, or more peaceful feelings

They both have their merits.
* 2 is an open-minded, flexible perspective that is able to absorb 'poison' into itself, work constructively with unpleasant feelings when they inevitably occur (by allowing them to express what they wish and be what they are without attempting to alter or suppress them), and comes closest to what I would consider unconditional love.
* 3 is a tender, kind, soothing, calming approach that is very gentle and has the compassion to not impose or amplify harsh things when a person is in a weakened or vulnerable state. It is largely based on dropping, releasing, or reducing unpleasant things (by having the kindness to not force or impose things that are painful) to strip down to a bare, minimal consciousness.

I consider 2 to be the broader perspective of which 3 is a subset (i.e. gentleness in response to sensitive/vulnerable feelings). 2 is broader because it also embraces states in which the thing that one feels and wants is not quietness or calmness, but something more active, aggressive, and radical. (Whereas a 3-ish philosophy that only recognizes the supremacy of quiet feelings as higher or better than chaotic ones might be prone to stigmatizing, and might also feel completely helpless if and when volatile feelings are persistent or refuse to go away.)

2 also paradoxically can embrace cognitive-behavioral approaches that may seek to alter, extinguish, or control thoughts and feelings based on an apparently judgmental motivation.* The attitude of 2 in that application would be to harmonize with or revere the feeling of wishing to change or alter things and have a non-judgmental attitude toward judgmental feelings, seeing them as having goodness or purpose behind them.

*But only if there is a sincerely felt desire or motivation for these things. 2 would generally be adamantly opposed to imposing any such approach on a person against their will, while recognizing exceptions where from the side of the person offering that imposition it feels like the most practical approach.

4) Focus on body

About 4 years ago, a relative of mine who practices shamanism suggested that I try pressing on my solar plexus while I am improvising. I did this and although the pressure itself didn't stimulate any particular effects, what I found was that in the course of my *trying to find* an effect, I became more sensitized/observant of the effects of my playing upon my body.

Noticed especially the effects of register, playing higher or lower. Noticed that certain notes felt good in my body while others didn't. Noticed that the range of notes I felt comfortable playing sometimes expanded and contracted. Began playing based on primarily trying to trying to create good feelings in my body.

Began noticing a synesthesia between the following:
i) Attraction to specific sounds or musical notes
ii) Feeling my attention get drawn to specific points in my body, holding my attention there, and noticing that this caused certain feelings of heat/warmth/relaxation at those parts of the body; noticing this feeling sometimes wanting to move to other parts, passively following it, adjusting my playing based on what part of the body it corresponded to
iii) Having visualizations or imaginations of color, shapes, etc. centered at those spots in my body
iv) Awareness of breath

Analogous to an experience I first had years ago while attempting to practice autogenics. Focusing attention at certain parts of the body causes experientially noticeable changes in physical sensations at those parts of the body. Has very clear associations or analogies to certain types of energy practices and notions of prana and qi in Eastern religions that involve circulating energy throughout the body, focusing it at specific spots, etc.

Analogous to external nada yoga

5) Dropping of music

Within the past 2 years, have been practicing all of the synesthetic processes but only while imagining sound (Pashyanti) rather than actually playing it.

This has replaced musical improvisation as my main way of doing emotional processing as it is something I can do anywhere and the feelings I am able to tap into with this are more subtle. (The activity of creating physically sensible music feels a bit forceful or imposing by comparison.)

Have started applying this during masturbation as a way of regulating arousal levels.

***Trigger warning: discussion of abusive psychotherapeutic interventions and their effects***

I had a pretty horrendous phone call with someone.

I went for a walk afterwards and was going to write a really grotesque, trigger-happy fictional story to send to this person to try to express all of the ways in which their perspective was rubbing me the wrong way. But by the time I came back, took a shower, and had something to eat, the story had largely dissipated.

This story was going to have the following structure:

1) Person S has traumatic experience with Person E.
-Person S has traumatic history involving physical/sexual abuse.
-Person S befriends Person E because Person E has considerable depth and understanding and is interested/excited by Person S's negative thoughts rather than being repelled by them.
-Person E has an interest in learning more about Person S, but there's something a bit 'off' about it.
-Story escalates into something where Person E sees it as their project to try to "cure" Person S by basically forcing physicality on them. (Based on some severely misguided concept of attempting to help Person S overcome their fears by re-enacting them via flooding, trying to bring all kinds of intense feelings to the surface as some crude way of provoking insight backed by "this is for your own good", and trying to convince Person S that there is nothing to fear in any of this. It's garbage therapy, but Person E is completely convinced of the soundness of their approach and interprets any opposition as hypersensitivity that just shows how sick Person S is and how in need of this treatment they are.)
-Deepest aspect of what makes this experience traumatic for Person S is dialogue that ensues in which Person S tries to defend themselves but Person E insists that Person S is just giving in to fear, that they have no reason to be afraid, that their fear is getting in the way of their growth, that they can't rationally defend their fear of being touched by Person E, that they should be more open-minded, that they should take more risks, etc.

[Basically, this is the type of attitude or psychological viewpoint that my relative was force-feeding me..... again. And I just want to absolutely obliterate it. I want to shred it to pieces. My relative is a curious, intelligent, well-meaning person who says she wants to understand so that she can learn from me and so she can help people. But she is just really dumb when it comes to this. She is so dead-set on fear being a bad thing. I really want to show her how offensive, inappropriate, and *disastrous/harmful* this viewpoint is when it is applied in a slipshod, haphazard, mindless way to trauma. I really want to hit her over the head with it and come up with a scenario that is so obviously cruel that she will be able to perceive the way in which her words can potentially come across as torture weapons.]

2) Person S goes to therapy and gets re-traumatized by therapist(s) with attitudes identical to Person E

[I'd imagined this possibly happening with two or three therapists, just to show the progressive deepening of S's defensiveness and the way in which their trauma gets worse and she becomes *less* open as a result of being force-fed perspectives that are trying to forcibly open her up--with complete disregard for how she feels about it. It makes my blood boil.]

3) Person S goes to therapy and gets a good therapist.

[My imagination was that by this point, Person S would be so broken that they basically refuse to speak and they perceive all of good therapist's actions and words as potentially threatening. And the rest of the story would be the progression of her therapy with the good therapist, and the gradual undoing of the bulls* caused by all of the preceding characters who each in their own way made things substantially worse in the course of their attempts to cure her. And good therapist accomplishing this through extreme humility and genuine deference to Person S's feelings and preferences. Basically by adamantly refusing to attempt to "cure" Person S or see themselves as anything other than a receptive space.]

***

To my relative: if you are sincerely interested in hearing my perspective, then why did the following incidents happen in this phone call:
-After I spent an hour listening to and reflecting/mirroring what you were saying, and after you ask for my own feelings and say how you'll find them helpful... you interrupt me sharing those feelings (after 1-2 minutes of me fumbling around trying to express my perspective), and you go into a 15-minute story from your personal past that completely contradicts what I was sharing--again to try to get me to see that risk-taking is good. You say you're non-judgmental and value my freedom, but your *actions* show that you're really hell-bent on changing me, you know?
-When you asked me again for my feelings and whether I'd be willing to try risk-taking, I expressed that I felt like I wasn't able to find my perspective or my feelings because they were getting crowded out by your perspective. I expressed pretty articulately (and you seemed to understand) that it was as though if I did agree to your ideas about risk-taking, it would just be something I'd be lying about to please you and not because I genuinely want to. And that it would just be me adding another layer of crap/dishonesty onto myself which, once I got off the phone with you, I'd have to work extra-hard to shed off. After saying this, you redirected the conversation to how my words had stimulated some insight for you about your own situation that you'd been thinking about, and how it convinced you that you needed to interrogate your own fear and be skeptical of it. (Again, almost the direct opposite of the perspective I was expressing and was hoping for you to connect with.)
-I'm also really f--ing annoyed that you continuously, persistently assume that I am just completely shut off in my little hole and not taking any risks at all, and that you have to come in and rescue me or something or teach me the errors of my ways. I'm taking plenty of risks. I just see no need to describe them to you, because everything I share with you is fodder for you to find fault with what I'm doing. I really do know what the f-- I'm doing and I have a perfect understanding of what the appropriate pace is for me. I'm not some worm cowering blindly in a hole waiting for you to come by and enlighten me with your wisdom. I know you know what you're doing and I have no problem with you living according to your beliefs and values. But I have my own completely independent beliefs and values, I really do know what I'm doing, I don't need your help, I don't want your advice, and if you actually knew anything about how to help people you wouldn't intercat with me the way that you do. Every time you try to help me you just completely ruin whatever I'm already doing. Before you called, I was actually thinking about all kinds of amazing things I wanted to write about and all of my goals. Now I'm doing damage control to try to undo all of the bulls-- I've been experiencing as a result of talking to you.

I'm completely aware that relative to the extremes that other people have experienced (and continue to experience), what I'm describing here is relatively small. I am complaining about a splinter in my finger while someone else has their whole arm impaled by a block of wood. Nevertheless, it is my experience, and I'm quite angry.

(That's what I imagined happening with the good therapist. The first thing to come out would be aimless, white-hot anger.)

Lisa Germano - Cry Wolf

(God bless Lisa Germano. Your voice brings me to tears knowing what you've experienced. I'd offer you a hug, but my male hands and arms are disgustingly frightening so I have to abstain. It's sad to be something covered in barb wire and feel like something threatening, but not as sad as it would be to be approached by barb wire. I'm so sorry. I care about you. I won't touch you. I promise not to hurt you. I won't force anything on you. [lowers head] i don't want anyone to have to feel that... [prostrates] my dangerous arms are on the ground where they can't hurt anyone. my eyes are on the ground where they can't hurt anyone or intimidate anyone. [inaudibly whispering so my voice won't disturb you] you're precious to me.)

***

This is temporary. I'll not remember this within 24-48 hours. (Even now some of the feelings feel softer. The last paragraph really helped me feel better... I want there to be someone in the world who is so moved by suffering that they feel disgusted by all of the blood and are overcome to the point of just wanting to kneel to the ground and pray for softness.)

Am currently plumbing the depths of Star Wars trying to learn as much as I can from it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z0S0Z8lUTg

***

This is getting to the heart of what I'm interested in.

"I am originally from Sleheyron, if you must know. I was a slave to a cruel master, Omeesh the Hutt.

I was determined not to be 'nothing'. One night when the drunken worm had me alone in his chambers, I stabbed him and escaped the compound.

I stole onto a cargo ship and was not discovered by the crew until they reached the next system. They left me for dead on a desolate planetoid, alone... but that was fine by me. I was glad to be anywhere other than Sleheyron.

It was not luck that I was eventually rescued, of course. The Force was strong with me, though I didn't know that at the time. Not until the Jedi told me, that is.

They took me in and trained me even though I was a bit older than most Padawans.

I never progressed beyond Padawan. I had discipline, but no peace... and after my treatment at the hands of the Hutts there was little room in me for the ways of the Jedi.

I wanted to use the Force to free the other slaves I knew, to fight for what I knew was right. The Jedi restrained me until I couldn't stand it any more.

They claim the dark side is evil, but that isn't so. Sometimes anger and hatred are deserved and right. Sometimes things change because of it.

Being a Sith doesn't make me a monster, however.

There is suffering and injustice in the universe. I am surprised the Jedi can even stand the stench of it, much less stand by and do nothing.

Any failure to get the results I want is due to a lack of power on my part. That can change, in time.

But my anger has not diminished, nor my desire to see change. The more time I spent with the Sith the more I am certain that one day I will be able to fight as I must."

-Yuthura Ban, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

***

What jumps out at me is this:

"I never progressed beyond Padawan. I had discipline, but no peace... and after my treatment at the hands of the Hutts there was little room in me for the ways of the Jedi.

I wanted to use the Force to free the other slaves I knew, to fight for what I knew was right. The Jedi restrained me until I couldn't stand it any more."

I feel that there is something very important in this. This is a person who has lived a life of trauma and abuse. Her life at the time that she joins the Jedi is that she has many emotions that need to be processed.

The Jedi preach a doctrine that emotions/passions are the way of the Dark Side and that they must be restrained, controlled, abandoned. That a person who is not at peace is someone who has gone astray and is on the wrong path. The Jedi want these emotions to be eradicated by brute force, through psychological violence.

What this person needs is to feel these emotions, to work with them, to leverage them, to harmonize with them. The Jedi wanted her to destroy herself, but something deep in her being would not allow her to. There was something deeply necessary, vitally important, about these feelings. It was as if the Force itself was telling her that this was something she needed to retain. What she needed was to befriend these feelings, love them, cherish them, try to see through their eyes, try to understand, try to offer them what they needed, try to help them feel that they had been embraced and allowed to exist. And then once those feelings had been expressed, accepted, and welcomed, perhaps they would transform into something purposeful, meaningful, and energizing.

***

There is a scene in Revenge of the Sith where Anakin approaches Yoda and reveals his fears about his mother's safety, and Yoda's response is essentially, "You should not be afraid. Fear is a path to the Dark Side. Fear must be eliminated. A Jedi fears not death and has no attachments. If your mother dies, you should rejoice in such a thing, for she has become one with the Force."

And, as maligned as the acting in the prequel trilogy might be (in some cases justifiably), here Hayden Christensen does an amazing job. Anakin says with his voice that he will do as Yoda says. But, his face is contorted with grief and anger. His obedience is something surface-level, but the depth/heart of the matter has not been approached or resolved at all. It is clear that what Yoda has told him has not done anything to alleviate his feelings; it has only increased the burden of them.