writing space

Interpersonal moral frameworks

I wrote the italicized text below in another thread, but am copying/pasting it here because it feels like a pretty solid encapsulation of my values. Have added section headers.

There's another side to my values, but I don't feel as much need to express/describe it in detail because it's pretty obvious/commonplace and definitely sort of the default in this type of setting. Basically, "It's good to help people who are suffering and do things that help make other people happy." Duh. :)

The abusive relationship I was in many years ago had a dynamic where the other person used a liberal ethical framework that I strongly agreed with (and words I valued such as love, compassion, and sensitivity) to justify asking me to do things that were impossible/unreasonable. And then they guilt-tripped me when I failed. (And also had extreme emotional outbursts and blamed me for causing them... all of which was understandable and upsetting to me because I did care about them. And in hindsight I definitely erred in certain ways and was culpable/responsible for certain things, though I didn't know any better at the time since I hadn't experienced anything previously to prepare me or guide me as to what the right way was to deal with a person like that.)

The moral framework I present below is now my default framework for interpersonal relationships. The liberal framework is something that tends to happen voluntarily/instinctively once I feel safe and like my own needs are met.

Namaste.

***

How my boundaries developed under stress

I can't really speak for anyone else, but my boundaries started developing as a result of people getting under my skin to such a strong degree that it felt more painful to endure it than to finally confront them and tell them to f*** off. :) I kind of snapped and pushed *everyone* away.

I didn't know that I was doing anything specific like "establishing boundaries" or "being assertive" or anything like that. I just knew I hated what I was experiencing, I hated other people for making me feel how I was feeling, and I desperately wanted it to go away. So I did whatever I could to achieve that result.

How these boundaries contradicted my existing values (liberalism)

It was a very impulsive thing for me where I really felt like I was completely violating my own values and being abrasive, mean, and cruel. (Whether or not that was objectively the case, that was how it felt like to me.) I really disliked myself for doing this. It was completely at odds with how I usually was. I saw myself as someone compassionate, and here I was being something almost exactly opposite and completely selfish. At the same time though... in that situation, it felt absolutely necessary and like I couldn't act otherwise without continuing to suffer tremendously.

How I developed new values to justify these boundaries

I found myself needing a way of making sense of all of these actions that I was doing that completely went against what I thought I believed in. It was like... something had happened that my existing values weren't able to explain or justify. So, I developed a new, parallel set of values that now co-exists alongside my old/original values.

New value system: non-aggression principle (libertarianism/anarchism)

The new value system I arrived at says that there are certain basic things I'm obligated to do, but as long as I do those things, I'm not doing anything wrong. If someone expects more of me and they're disappointed, that's ultimately their fault because they're imposing an expectation on me that they don't have a right to impose. In the final analysis, they're trying to take something that doesn't belong to them. My freedom belongs to me, and that's what they're trying to take.

They might as well be stealing my watch and saying, "But it was a really nice watch and I wanted it" or "But I desperately needed a watch". The crucial/critical thing for me is... that watch belongs to me and you don't have a right to it regardless of how much you want it, how happy it makes you, or how much of your suffering it alleviates. It's my choice whether or not to give it to you. If I do give it to you, it's an act of kindness/charity on my part that I'm performing voluntarily. My stuff belongs to me. Generosity is praiseworthy and noble, but it's not obligated. I have a right to say no to things. That's what it means for my relationships to be consensual. Anything outside of that is a slippery slope where someone can ultimately ask *anything* from me and claim that it's morally justified as long as it helps them more than it hurts me. Which in my experience is wrong because it leads to results that are unlivable.

How my new values constrain my own actions toward others as well

The compromise I make in return for being stingy is that I'll affirm just as strongly that I don't have a right to take anything from *you* without your permission or full consent/approval. And if you say no or tell me to go away, then I also have to honor that as you asserting your basic rights. The core obligation is "don't get in my way and I won't get in your way." It goes in both directions. If someone violates my rules repeatedly and refuses to correct their behavior despite prompting and clarification, then I have to be willing to let that relationship collapse, and I'd consider myself to be better off for having gotten rid of someone like that.

How the new values and old values interact and balance each other out

In reality, I'm rarely so direct, hardcore, ruthless, sharp, callous, etc. There are obviously much more tactful and gentle ways of expressing all of this. And there is a lot of bending, negotiating, and forgiveness. And I'm rarely clear about what my boundaries are until they're broken (because it puts people on edge and tends to be a self-fulfilling prophecy sometimes). And it's balanced out by my original set of values existing in parallel, which tends to emphasize compassion, empathy, sensitivity, helping people, etc. I very often capitulate just because I find it to be less hassle, but that's fine because I have the right/freedom to do that too if I want to. It's just that if I really do feel someone is taking advantage of me, what I've described above is sort of the pure ethical framework that I would identify with to justify having boundaries and enforcing them.

How these underlying values are more important than any specific outward actions

I feel like the underlying values are more fundamental or central to my understanding of boundaries than any particular outward behavioral action that I apply in order to enforce boundaries. If I really deeply/truly believe I have boundaries, then I'm going to naturally/spontaneously do whatever I feel is necessary to enforce them. And then it's going to flow out of me in a way that's naturally congruent with my social style... rather than feeling like I'm pressuring myself to be confrontational in a way that's unnatural or forced.

random female name selection until i see something that feels nice:
https://www.randomlists.com/female-names

1) Luna
2) Alice

luna: [hiding in corner with arms around legs]
alice: [sees luna in corner] hi
luna: [covers face]
alice: [sits on ground a few feet away from where luna is]
luna: [sighs and continues to cover face]
alice: [sad] is it okay for me to be here with you
luna: [nods--head not really visible but body rocks in a vertical motion]
alice: [nods] would you like a hug?
luna: [sitting still pondering, not sure]
luna: [pause] i don't want to hurt you
alice: [pained, scoots so she is sitting closer to luna, then lays down so that her head is resting on luna's feet]
alice: [whispers] what would you do to hurt me?
luna: [unpleasant feeling in throat] ...i'm so needy
luna: i'm going to manipulate you
luna: i'm going to make you do things that may you don't want to do
alice: [big smile, sits up and cutely wraps her body around lunas legs, embracing them and pressing her face into them] yeah, like hugging you? ;)
luna: [smiles weakly]
alice: [sits up]
luna: i'm so scared
alice: [smiles] can i hug you?
luna: [nods]
alice: [smile] yay [reaches over and puts her whole body on top of luna's so that luna is lying on her back and alice is on top of her like a big weighted blanket, presses her face into luna's]
luna: [feeling good physically but still anxious] i'm sorry that you're having to do this
luna: i'm such a burden
alice: [reaches over and holds luna's hand, then kisses it]
alice: do you feel like talking about it?
alice: or would you prefer that i just snuggle you until we fall asleep? ;)
luna: [smile]
luna: the snuggling sounds so nice, but i'm worried that i might not remember what i was worried about if i wake up
alice: [smile]
alice: and i guess you want to remember
luna: [voice becomes a bit more confident] yeah, i feel like there's something here that i want to figure out
alice: [nods] maybe we can pick a different position where it's easier to talk
alice: seeing as i sort of just pushed you down like this. [grins] i'm such a deviant
luna: [laughs] are not
alice: [sticks out tongue, sits up and pulls luna with her
[luna/alice sit on couch together holding hands]
alice: so, you feel like you're a burden
luna: it's just, i'm not sure how to express appreciation
alice: for me?
luna: yeah. like, if i say you're someone i value, it feels like i'm taking away your freedom to go off and do something else if you wanted to.
alice: ah, sort of like you're worried that you're coming across as possessive.
luna: yeah.
luna: the other thing is, i feel really worried about receiving appreciation.
alice: from me too i imagine?
luna: yeah
alice: why's that?
luna: because if i thank you for it, then it feels like i'm saying, "oh, please keep appreciating me" and i'm taking away your future freedom to stop appreciating me if you wanted to
luna: i don't want to assume that you are going to always have constant or stable feelings toward me
luna: i want you to be free to have anger or sadness or go off and do your own thing
luna: and yet that also coexists alongside a feeling of wanting to sort of lean into all of this
alice: that sounds hard. could i see if i'm understanding?
luna: [nod]
alice: so when i'm kind to you, it makes things hard for you
alice: because you want to say thank you
alice: or say something like, "thank you so much for being kind to me"
luna: yeah
alice: but at the same time, you don't want it to seem like you're pinning me down as someone who will always be kind to you, or will always feel a certain way toward you, or will always act a certain way toward you, or that you are attached to or depending on
luna: [nod] i don't want to ever take away your freedom to run away if that's something that you want to do
luna: i don't want to ever take away your freedom to feel disgusted or unhappy with me, or to feel as though i'm not someone you want in your life
luna: because i know how much my own feelings toward people can vacillate and oscillate
luna: i don't want to pin you down psychologically
alice: [cheekily] but you want to pin me down physically, right? :P
luna: [laughs and pushes alice] you're such a freakin' pervert
alice: [laugh] yeah, i know. it's all good.
alice: [smile]
alice: [holds luna's hand]
alice: does it make you uncomfortable when i hold your hand?
alice: i mean like, in terms of those same kinds of psychological dynamics?
alice: or wait, i didn't reflect what you said before
luna: like right now, you're sort of exerting effort on my behalf and trying to do something for me
alice: and that makes you uncomfortable in a certain way
alice: like someone is expending energy on your behalf
alice: or doing something for you
alice: but it feels to you kind of like, "i wish you wouldn't do that... i'm not a person who is worthy of that kind of effort"
alice: "i don't want other people to suffer or do things for me... i'm not worth it"
luna: [nod] but then that feeling itself is kind of a nuisance to other people
luna: it's so complicataed
luna: like, if i express that feeling, then i'm making myself a burden still in a different way
luna: because like, here you are trying to approach that feeling or console me or help me process it
luna: but at the same time, it's not like i want you to go away, because that would make me really lonely
luna: i'm so scared that my loneliness is going to swallow you up
luna: and it's something where you could assure me that it won't, but i won't believe you
luna: because you could be lying and actually be feeling anxiety or discomfort as a result of this interaction
luna: because i know i would feel some if i were in your shoes
luna: so then i'm a person who's creating trouble or anxiety for other people
alice: [breathes]
alice: [kisses luna on the cheek]
luna: [rests head on alice's chest]
luna: like even right now... i'm leaning on you... is that something i should be doing? what if you want to get up? i'm so comfortable, but maybe you want to do something else
alice: you're worried that there might be a situation one day where you want to lean on me, and you feel really connected to me, but i'm actually wanting to do something else. or maybe i'm feeling like you're leeching off of me or you're depending on me too much. so, you're wary of getting too cozy or comfortable with me. because maybe i'll want to go off on my own. and maybe you worry that i'm going to feel guilty. maybe you're going to feel abandoned. and you're going to feel guilty for saying that you feel abandoned. because it feels like the kind of comfort or connection or support you want is something that can't be sustained.
luna: [puts arms around alice] i feel like i could lie like this forever. your body is so unbelievably comfortable. but i feel like i'm going to suck you dry. but i feel so connected and like there's something so sincere or pure or honest about this too... this kind of situation where i'm really able to share my feelings and anxieties and fears. it bothers me so much, but i'm also so grateful that i get to do it.
alice: but then i guess there's the same conflict again
luna: yeah, like... if i appreciate something you're doing and become dependent on that, then what kind of effect does that have on you long-term.
luna: if i become attached to you as someone who is providing something to me.
luna: what am i going to do when you change your mind.
luna: and i can't and won't pressure you into saying something like, "[alice voice] oh luna, i'll never change my mind, i'll always care for you and be such and such." that isn't a promise that anybody can keep.
luna: and i don't feel like that's a cynical thing. i feel like that's a realistic thing. feelings don't stay put. there are going to be times when maybe you won't feel like being supportive toward me, or where you might feel like i'm depending on you too much.
luna: and maybe there's going to be an asynchronicity.
luna: like, i'm going to be in a state where i feel like depending on you, but you'll be in a state where you feel like detaching or being your own person.
luna: and, it's uncomfortable, because if i share the fact that i want to depend on you, then maybe you'll feel guilty for pulling away or doing your own thing. like, you'll feel worried that you're hurting me.
alice: [holds luna's hand and squeezes it] you're so good at finding feelings.
luna: [scrunches face in anxiety] i only find bad feelings.
luna: i shouldn't be taking a moment like this and ruining it.
luna: you're here trying to be comforting and supportive, and i feel like i'm sort of ruining it and shooting it down or making things as hard as possible
luna: i'm just a sort of tangled mess
luna: and i'm making things hard for you
luna: but by saying something like that, i'm only making it harder
luna: because now you're going to feel pressured to provide support to me or say something to the contrary of, "no, you're not making things hard". but what if it really is hard for you?
luna: i'm not sure if it makes any difference to me whether it is or isn't hard for you.
luna: maybe what i want is just for you to know that i'm really thinking about your feelings and i am really really worried about hurting you.
luna: i care so much about not hurting you.
luna: i don't want you to be angry with me. :(
luna: i'm so sorry... :(
alice: [sees luna sad and feels sad]
luna: [feels more sad seeing alice's face]
luna: and now you're feeling sad for me... and i'm making you sad...
luna: [hushed voice, lowers head] i'm so sorry
luna: i'm so sorry...
alice: i feel like that's something you really want to say
alice: you really want to express that feeling of "i'm sorry"
alice: you really want me to hear that
luna: [puts hands on chest and bows whole upper body in respect and apology] i'm so sorry for depending on you
luna: [grimaces but not visible because her face is hidden] i'm so sorry for hurting you
luna: i'm so sorry for being part of your life
luna: i'm so sorry for making things complicated
luna: i'm so sorry for being a burden
luna: i'm so sorry for being a burden
luna: i'm so sorry for using you to meet my needs
luna: i'm so sorry for making you a means for my own ends
luna: i'm so sorry for having feelings toward you
alice: [puts hand on luna's head and pets her hair]
alice: [softly] it's so brave of you to say these things
alice: you're opening up so much
alice: i feel so... [puts hand on chest] honored that you would trust me with something like this
alice: this is something so difficult for you to say
alice: and you are so afraid that it's going to hurt me
alice: and so afraid that it's going to ruin everything
alice: and yet you're still saying it
alice: [kisses luna on forehead and hugs her]
luna: i'm sorry...
luna: i'm sorry that you have to hug me like this
luna: i'm sorry that i'm apologizing and forcing you to say things to comfort me or reassure me that i'm not hurting you
luna: i'm sorry for being sorry
luna: i'm sorry for the fact that if you were to tell me that i was hurting you, it would be something hard for me to deal with
luna: and yet i'm sort of egging you on right now to try to hurt me
alice: [smiles] that's super interesting
luna: [shakes head] it's gross. i'm disgusting.
alice: you're interesting.
luna: you're going to find me gross.
luna: i'm going to eventually come ou with something so hideous or so soul-destroying that you're going to be hurt by it or burdened by it and not want to be connected with me.
alice: but you're still going to want to connect with me
alice: but you're also going to feel uncomfortable depending on me
luna: yeah
alice: and even when things are going well, it's going to feel like something where you're depending on me too much
alice: and it's like if i get up and do something else, you're going to feel lonely and miss me and want to capitalize on me or hold onto me or own me or possess me
luna: [nod]
luna: i'm so sick
alice: [smiles and starts playing with luna's hair]
alice: [rubs her nose against luna's]
luna: [laughs] that tickles...
alice: [kisses luna's nose and hugs her really tightly]
alice: you're my little angel
luna: [shakes head] what am i going to do when you no longer feel that way because i've pushed you to the bring, or because you just want to be your own person, and i'm suddenly a needy, dependent, infantile nuisance who is suddenly left to fend for herself after leaning on you
alice: [stops to contemplate]
alice: yeah, i really don't know
alice: maybe if i were more awake
alice: i might have some answer
alice: but i feel like there's something special too about being tired and having all of these feelings come pouring out
alice: again, it's super brave of you to share all of this
alice: is it okay for me to say that at least for right now, i find you incredibly cute and lovable and adorable and wonderful and want to do unspeakable things to you? :P
alice: like, is it okay for me to say that and think that and express that and for that to happen, even if maybe we both aren't sure whether it'll be like that in the future
alice: or is that something really uncomfortable?
luna: [puts hand on chest] it's like, my heart hurts to imagine depending on someone and having them leave
luna: and it's hard because, the more you comfort me and the nicer you are and the more of a beautiful, amazing, impossibly good human being you are... and the more i lean on you and feel connected with you, comfortable, and dependent... the more it's going to hurt when you leave me
luna: [presses face into alice's body and hugs her] but it feels so good to be dependent on you... you are so unbelievably soft and kind and gentle. i am so lucky.
luna: i'm so sorry for appreciating that and wanting you to be here so that i can be supported by that.
luna: you're going to want to get up and make a sandwich or something and i'm going to be here like [squeezes alice super-tightly] "mine... all mine"
alice: [grins] you are too cute...
luna: [shakes head] it's cute now... but you won't find it cute someday. it's really bad. i might seriously suck all the life out of you.
luna: you're way too attractive.
luna: or i'm way too needy.
luna: probably the latter.
luna: because i know if you were to leave me, i'd go into detached mode and be sort of like, "[cynical] well, alice wasn't worth anything anyhow. she's like everyone else. she's going to leave."
luna: and maybe the sort of put-together version of that cynic would try to be really pragmatic about it and be like, "well, but that's how things are. people can't dependent upon other people. it's unfair to expect that. it's not realistic. so, the mature, adult, grown-up thing is for everyone to be independent and take care of themselves."
luna: and like... i can totally be in that state and stay there.
luna: but... it's so cold and desolate.
luna: and it's like, if i ever relax, if i ever let my guard down, if i ever let myself become vulnerable... there's still this side of me that is just this unbelievably clingy child.
alice: i wonder what it would be like if we both let you be clingy.
luna: b-but... i'm going to suck all of the life out of you. you're going to be like, "i can't believe this girl keeps pestering me. she keeps clinging onto me and i can't do anything that i want to do. i'm stuck here. i really want to leave, but i'm going to hurt her so badly if i abandon here. so i'm stuck here with this parasite draining the life out of me and there's nothing i can do about it without hurting someone, because my hands are tied."
luna: that's what's going to happen if you let me depend on you.
luna: and it's really frightening for me to imagine me putting you into a state like that... to imagine me really making you unhappy.
luna: [lets go of alice and curls up body into a ball] i really really don't want to conenct with people if i'm going to hurt them.
luna: it hurts to hurt people... it hurts so much... i don't want to do it. i don't want to hurt anyone.
luna: [crying] i'm so sorry for hurting you.... i'm so sorry. i'm so sorry....
alice: [puts blanket over luna]
luna: are you going to leave me for being such a bother... [chest aches]
alice: luna, these are really hard questions
alice: you've been super super super brave....
alice: it's okay that you don't feel like you can solve all of this
alice: you're amazing for even trying
alice: i really respect what you're trying to do
alice: and all of the stuff you've said is really valuable
alice: and it makes a lot of sense
alice: like, you've said so much and a lot of it is stuff where if we were to go back, we could probably make sense of it when we're awake
alice: your feelings are so pure right now, and it's really amazing.
alice: it's something i really like about you [pets luna's hair] you have such soft, wonderful, beautiful feelings.
alice: and you feel them so deeply
alice: the people you're comparing yourself to who are really put together or seem to understand everything... they can't feel the things you feel or say the things you say
alice: they can't cry the way do
alice: you're so honest and it makes you a jewel
alice: [holds luna's hand]
alice: let's lie down together and just relax... i feel like you've earned it.
alice: sort of like if you've gone to the doctor and had a really scary shot! [smile] let's pretend you're a six-year-old and just be super super gentle and nice and caring.
luna: [makes a motion to alice to "come here" and join her under the covers]
alice: [gleefully does as luna asks her to and full body hugs luna]
luna: i don't know what i'd do without you
luna: but i feel bad saying th--
alice: [pokes luna in the cheek] hey, i'm here silly. i have my body wrapped around the cutest, prettiest, most precious person i know.
luna: [sigh] what if i'm not pretty or someone better comes along
alice: ah, i see this isn't going away then. [grins] okay, let's say that i leave you. then what happens?
luna: [breathing feels like it gets caught in her throat]
alice: yeah, it's a hard thing to imagine [pets luna's hair and hugs her]
luna: is this why people get married... so they don't have to decide to leave people
alice: [holds luna close] mm, but there are no guarantees
alice: i'm sorry this has been an uncomfortable conversation
luna: i'm sorry that i'm in a state where i feel like you're trying to comfort me but i'm just not letting myself be comfortable
luna: like i really want to keep being negative and finding things to worry about
alice: [smile] maybe that's just what you need to do right now.
alice: like if your worry is that your poison is going to scare me away or be something unbelievably bad that ruins everything... maybe what you want is to show all of that poison and have me still be someone who sticks around and is able to listen to all of that without saying something like, "geez, you're really messed up and i want nothing to do with you", you know?
luna: but what if i'm hurting you? what if you feel anxious that you're not able to solve this stuff?
alice: hm... well, i feel an anxiety too... but it's kind of interesting.
alice: i'm not sure if you're as clingy as you claim to be.
luna: i'm holding myself back
luna: [feels anxious]
alice: [smiles and pets luna]
alice: i wonder if maybe something that helps is that... it's okay for you to be anxious and exist like this, and it's okay for you to not feel comfortable
alice: like, it's something where i know i'm not going to be able to instantly heal you.
alice: because if i were in your shoes, god, i would feel just as uncomfortable.
alice: and that's the real reason i feel anxious is because i know for a fact that i don't have the answers to any of the things you're expressing.
alice: and like, these are super-hard problems.
luna: i make everything bad.
alice: ah, you mean like, you sort of take things and manage to find ways to make them complicated and super hard?
luna: i bet there are a lot of couples out there who can just cuddle or do whatever and not feel worried, or not have to deal with this type of dynamic. or there are people who would see this as unhealthy and me taking advantage of you. or it would just be, "you're messed up--go see a professional and don't pester me with all of this."
alice: well, i guess just to return to real-world reality a bit, we're the same person. so, you don't have to worry about burdening me because any choices you make are ones that i'm implicitly agreeing with.
alice: i know it's kind of a cop-out though, because that's falling back on the constructed or contrived nature of this writing exercise and escaping the problem. when what you're really wondering is, "well, what if this were a real person and a real relationship rather than an imaginary one where i'm pouring feelings into an imagined situation and can decide to escape whenever it gets too intense?"
luna: that's something i really like about this... i can stop if i need to.
alice: yeah, it's great.
alice: do you think we've written enough?
luna: it's just a shame i can't cuddle with you and feel super comfortable.
luna: like, that if i try to, all of these kinds of doubts, fears, and concerns start bubbling up.
alice: ah, like even in this imaginary setting where you could make me any kind of perfect person you want, and have me say things like, "i'll never leave you" or whatever, it just doesn't feel believable, or...
luna: it's like, i'm feeling this poison, and i've wanted to stay there and express it.
luna: and maybe in the future, one of the more rational or analytical sides can come in and sort of sweep up the pieces and figure out what happened here and make sense of it and come up with all kinds of nice models. and maybe based on looking at that, there'll come some kind of resolution. or at the very least, maybe i won't feel like i'm drow/ning in quicksand whenever i get into one of these sorts of loops. like, i'll know exactly what all of the parts are, what all of the possible permutations are, and have a sort of map of it.
alice: yeah, for sure. like i was saying earlier, that's why it was so incredible for you to be able to say all of that. you really shared everything very purely. we're a little more detached now, but you were so there, and now one of those other more masculine selves has a bunch of data that they can analyze. :)
luna: i'm sorry for being a handful.
alice: let's sleep.
luna: goodnight...
alice: [kisses luna on the forehead]
alice: love you, dummy :P
luna: [chuckles and pokes alice in the side]
alice: [lets out a squeak]
luna: [smiles and presses face into alice's face]
luna: nighty night

Current mood: austere

Arcana - Lovelorn

Description of the rabbit hole by which I ended up reading all about the lore of Mighty Morphin Power Rangers.

1) Went onto political Twitter as usual as I enjoy tracking the progression of the apocalypse
2) One person I read regularly tweeted a Rick and Morty video containing commentary on S4E1
3) After watching the video on YouTube, scrolled down and read a comment noting the heavy Akira references in that episode
4) Having still not seen Akira (despite a friend I met on another forum years ago really loving Akira, despite knowing that it is famous and very highly regarded in the anime community, and despite having enjoyed S4E1 of Rick and Morty), I went to the Wikipedia article to learn more about it and see if I could decipher what exactly in S4E1 was referring to Akira
5) The Akira article has a voluminous chart of voice actors, and I was struck by the fact that nearly every single one of them had their own Wikipedia page, which felt unusual or unexpected
6) Started mousing over voice actors' names out of curiosity to see who they were and noticed that one of them was described as voicing one of the main villains in Power Rangers, but didn't recognize that villain's name from when I watched the series when I was younger
7) Clicked on the villain's name and ended up on a Wikipedia page with rich/exhaustive detail on every single villain in the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers television series.

It's actually really fascinating. The characters have personalities and relationships, haha.

I'm also really amused by the fact that the real-world impetus for much of the plot development is sort of like, "Well, we ran out of Japanese source material from this show. So, I've got an idea... we'll make a movie and have them get new powers, and then we can start stealing footage from this other Japanese show instead." :D And yet if you're a kid watching it, it's so exciting like, "Omg they got new powers." :) And McDonald's gets to sell new Happy Meals toys as well. It's a nice little ecosystem and all is well with the world, lol. Well done.

Man, after reading all of this, I still don't remember Scorpina at all... I bet if I were in puberty at the time rather than in elementary school I'd have remembered her. Per Wikipedia: "a beautiful Asian woman with long black hair wearing a somewhat tight golden scorpion armor". Much gratitude to the budding novelist who edited the Power Rangers page.

So you see, I was skeptical of this description. And I like to confirm things through firsthand experience. The written word is so lacking at times. So I felt compelled to engage in my own personal research on Google Images--just to verify the accuracy of this received information rather than blindly accepting it. I assure you that I did this without *any* ulterior motives. Just purely disinterested, objective research... as one does on such important topics as this... [facepalm] And uh... yup, this description checks out. You're not wrong... lmao. Brilliantly done, Wikipedia.

It's like going to a page and they just find some excuse to put a photograph of male genitalia at the top. Completely on-topic and fiercely/meticulously justified. This image is a low resolution copy that contributes to the article significantly, does not limit the owner's ability to sell copies of the image, and no other free equivalent is available at this time. Yes, that's exactly how I feel about writing this nonsense about Power Rangers on 7Cups... it contributes to the forum significantly, does not limit anybody else's ability to write their own content, and no other equivalent content is available on the forum at this time. :D

***

I regret writing this and suspect my sharing this will destroy someone else's happiness through some "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon"-type butterfly effect. (Or perhaps the content is poor enough in quality that one degree will suffice and I can keep the other five degrees in reserve for a rainy day. Sort of like a cat hoarding lives.) But I'd have regretted not writing it as well.

Transcription #1 (2:17)

Alright. It is 10:15 am on Saturday, November 16th.

And I'd like to try something new. Well, not as new as what I could be trying. Um, so what I'm doing right now--it's an old writing exercise but it's not something that I typically share with other people and that's the new thing. The "newer" thing would be for me to actually share audio, but... just to explain what I'm doing--

I am recording myself speaking. And then I am transcribing my words. And I am doing this iteratively. So, I speak for a little while, I listen back and jot down what I said, and then after having done that I repeat the process. And each time it turns out a little bit differently.

Somewhere in the course of listening to myself, that has some type of effect.

Um, so as I said, what's different about this is that I'm sharing this writing with other people. Typically, it's something that I engage in where, I don't censor myself at all, and I say and do whatever. And I also don't typically jot down a full transcription. What I'll do is I'll listen, and anything that catches my ear or feels interesting or like I'm attracted to it, I'll write down. And that sort of becomes its own type of... way of processing it, or way of... activating intuition. This sort of... listening and deciding what things I like or don't like, and sort of feeling how I feel when I'm listening to my own words.

Um, usually I'll talk for like, chunks of between 1 minute and 15 minutes. It tends to start off slow and then expand over time. I have tons of other writing methods, but this is the one that I'm currently using. (And I could go into why that is or what the advantages and disadvantages of the different writing methods are, but it's not really what I'm interested in talking about. I do have a purpose in doing this.)

Now as far as sharing the audio itself, um... well, that's a topic for another time. It's something I've thought about but, it feels too risky right now. It felt risky before, but it feels even more risky just, um, in the past couple days. And I'll abstain from describing those reasons for the time being.

***

Notes #1

10:15 am 11/16/19
new
audio
transcribe
wrt
sha
iterative
snd
integration
connectivity
public
sound
intuition
blunt
bland
judgment
risk
social

***

Transcription #2 (2:26)

Okay, I think something I should do with this--well that's the thing, I am doing full sentences but I'm also doing notes. The notes are what really represent the processing.

So, there's a question of whether I do the notes first or the sentences first, and doing the sentences first... is better. Because the sentences are a bit more left-brained and articulate. And, it's kind of just a rote exercise. Note-taking is what actually feels like the real processing that's carrying this all forward.

Um, something I was thinking about... [pause] well, I guess it's gone... um, it's really challenging knowing that there are people present while I'm doing this. That's a major difference. It sort of changes the path that things go through. Because it changes my physical state as I'm speaking, creates certain types of anticipatory responses, it forces me to contextualize certain things that I otherwise wouldn't... because I want all of this to make sense I suppose. I want this to be something communicable. So, I'm kind of slowing myself down, really being laborious with things that I wouldn't be if I were doing this solely for myself. So, that feels like a distinction to me, doing this sort of writing by myself vs. doing it in the presence of other people.

And, I'm a bit annoyed with myself for sharing this. I feel a bit of anger. Why am I sharing this, what is my purpose in doing that... is it something that I should be sharing.

***

Notes #2

notes sentences
processing
people present
order
physical state
energy
anticipation
communication
anxiety
aggression

***

Transcription #3 (13:38)

So I guess lately there have been a lot of topics that I've considered writing on 7Cups. Or, not even considered. I had decided that I was going to and I had a list. And I don't even mean the list that I came up with a week ago of all of the stuff from like, the prior two weeks that I hadn't written. I mean completely new stuff, for the most part, though there is some crossover.

Um, but yeah, there were a lot of topics that I wanted to write about.

Even yesterday morning, I felt like I had a pretty good sense of what I wanted to write and what I wanted to do. Um, so I mean, that is a thing that I could do is just to list stuff and come up with what I want to talk about or potential topics.

Agh, I really hate how organized this is... like, I'm trying to hold my own hand or hold other people's hands and just like, keep all of this on target. Keep it structured and logical and organized, and it's like, yeah f*** that, haha.

Just make it all destroy itself, lol. Make the words bleed, you know? Just kill all the words.

Hm, but is that something I can write, you know? Is that something I'm allowed to say...

I like to imagine that I'm allowed to say anything as long as I'm not hurting other people, like... it's okay for me to direct aggression toward myself or toward some imaginary entity. And, nobody is really hurting me right now.

Well... [pause]

Okay, so that's starting to get into the 7Cups-specific stuff that I want to talk about. Which I guess I'm building up towards. So maybe this whole writing process actually works, and it just goes very slowly. Maybe the note-taking aspect of it is enough, sort of listening back and "catching" certain things that are important. Because it seems like a really big part of the process is that... I go down a lot of different paths. I get distracted.

In the case of the previous transcription, it was like I started in a certain place and then I ended up in this aggressive place of like, "Why the f*** am I sharing this?" And like, that energy sort of jumped out at me.

And then there'll be things where it's like, I'm listening for a full minute and it's like, "Yeah, I don't really care about any of this" or "I don't know why you're talking about this".

Something that I will mention is that, typically when I'm listening back to this, I'll speed it up... by like, 70-80%. So, I'll be talking for 3-4 minutes or whatever in the actual writing, but the writing I listen to will be about half that length. And that's just a way of optimizing or making things more efficient.

Um. Yeah.

So, I've completely lost my train of thought as far as that previous thing that I was energized by a minute ago that I meant to talk about, but I'm sure it'll come back when I'm listening to this. Either that or there'll be some kind of aha moment in another 30 seconds where I'm just like... "Oh yeah, okay".

[pause] Ugh, f*** this writing.

Ah, that's the other thing. I really like cursing. It's not evident--well, so yeah. So if I were building a model of expression or different types of writing, I already mentioned the distinction between me doing this transcription activity solo vs. sharing it. And then I could compare that to the usual writing posts that I do on here which are not verbal. Where I'm kind of working behind the scenes and really crafting and doing a lot more planning and manipulating and controlling. Whereas with this if I say something, am I obligated to write it down? Can I decide not to write things down? That's the thing that happens when I'm taking notes is I'll... say stuff, I'll listen back, and I'll either feel like it's not worth mentioning in terms of "I don't care about it" or I'll feel like it's not worth mentioning in terms of going down some negative path that just doesn't feel good. And it's like, if my notes are how I'm deciding what I'm putting my attention to or what's important to me, then I want it to be stuff that I like that I'm drawn to.

And I imagine that's what drives a lot of other people's reticence to post stuff when they're in a bad mood. Because I mean, I felt the same way yesterday. It's like, do you really want that to be the thing that you're presenting to the world. Whereas it's like, ah I could wait a few days and then I'll be... feeling nice and dandy.

I guess in this case I feel like... my... okay, so there's this distinction between solitary writing and social writing. My feeling is that I have a self-sufficient solitary writing system, and it's pretty solid. It can do what it needs to do. But... I'm sort of remembering this Ken Wilber anthology of writings on meditation. It was like "Transformations of Consciousness" or something. And there was a discussion in there of um, different states of enlightenment. It was written by this guy Brown, I can't remember his first name. I could obviously Google it and insert it back in here, but, yeah it's whatever.

And it was about how, um, there are these different stages. And it's like... meditators reach one stage, and then they decide to either stay there or move on to the next one. But once you make a decision to move on to the next one, you're no longer able to access the previous one.

Like, you're breaking apart some existing state of integration, introducing disintegration, ...and making a choice to risk that. I feel like as soon as I've decided that I want to write socially, all of my solitary writing stops working. Because my ambition has changed. I'm aiming for something... I don't want to say "higher", but... it feels like a more complete synthesis that I'm aiming for. And it has the side-effect that a lot of my solitary writing stuff doesn't work as well. It's a lot more inefficient, or there's a lot more risk involved [with social writing]*, but... yeah.

[*Bracketed text is clarifying commentary after-the-fact.]

Mm, I'm already at 8 minutes. It's funny how time flies, isn't it.

That's one of the reasons I didn't want to share the audio recordings is like... well, I guess it's like "Why would I want to share it?" One reason would be because there are things with tone of voice. But, that was something I was feeling a couple days ago, or even yesterday. I was in a very good mood. And I felt like as I was walking and as I was speaking to myself, I had a certain softness. And I had an imagination that I could share that softness. And just the energy or the tonality or the resonance of my voice would have some type of positive effect. And, it was an imagination, but it was something that I felt was... really true to reality.

Whereas now I know that's not the case. I know that my energetic state has changed in a certain way. And I'm a bit more distressed or anxious. There's something in my physicality that feels different. And I hear it in my voice as I'm speaking as well.

But, more importantly I can feel it in my body. There's a kind of shakiness.

And, that was sort of a writing exercise that I was considering doing last night and posting on 7Cups. But I ended up not doing it because I was very tired. I felt like sleep was a better use of time.

There are some states you reach where it's just like, diminishing returns and it's better to just quit, go to sleep, or find something distracting to do. Where the more that you focus on it, you just know it's not going to go well. You know it's not going to improve things and you're just going to end up in the same place that you started or, in an even worse situation.

I guess I like the fact that I'm not sharing the raw audio here because... it is sort of a layer where if I'm mumbling or slurring or--I'm able to hide the tonality. The writing itself seems a lot more... crisp or crystallized or objective. Whereas if you were listening to my voice, there would be a lot of tonal things going on that I feel like all of these really empathic, sensitive, highly attuned... lol... people would inevitably pick up on. Or it's one of those things where I would infect people with the tone of my voice, and it would cease to be a self-directed writing process that I can do without fear of destroying other people's lives. (And, it's a really minor thing of course.)

Um. I guess something I could do when I'm listening back to this is make a list of possible writing topics. Assuming that something doesn't jump out at me as being something that I want to do.

This feels really long, heh. It gets longer and longer. It's fine. It's up to other people whether they want to read this or not. That's always been the case.

That's another can of worms though... the feeling of whether I give people their... eh, sort of freedom to read or not read... or whether I express feelings of other people wanting to read stuff, or... what.... LOL. Yeah, I just can't talk about that s*** right now. It doesn't feel... like a rabbit hole that I need to go down.

I will someday. But, it would be best to do that when I'm in a more confident state, and when I have the physical energy where I feel like I can tank any... anxiety or discomfort that arises from approaching that.

Yeah, I guess that's about it for now. Well, not for writing in general, but for this segment or chunk. Continuing the whole iterative thing, as per usual.

Alright.

It'll be interesting to see what types of differences there are in the writing style. Like, speaking for me is something that is completely unintegrated with writing. Well, it's been becoming more integrated lately, and that has to do with physical energy. But it's like yeah, there are definitely certain differences.

I don't know, it doesn't really matter. Alright, that's enough.

***

Notes #3

topics
7cups
list
crossover
new topics
sense of what i want to do
approach that
list

organization
discomfort
control
structure
logic
f***

destruction
aggression
blood
murder

censorship

harm to others
non-violence
expression
non-harm
7cups interactions

expressive process
spontaneity
noticing
energy
choice

logic
optimization
efficiency
distraction
energy

hatred

expression
transcription
types
non-control
silence
sound
tonality
music
breath
beautiful

solitary vs. social writing
self-sufficient writing
solidity

stages
disintegration
multi-level integration
dabrowski
aiming
synthesis
aurobindo
imperfection
different levels for different spectra
dimensions

tone of voice
immersion
comfort
softness
quietude
beauty
pleasure
resonance
gentleness
sweetness

physical energy
tension

work
resources

secrecy
layering
defensiveness

infection
tolstoy
emotional contagion

writing topics
freedom
choice
dependence
community
non-grasping
softness

***

Transcription #4 (38:14)

Alright. I've got my eyes closed. Something was really... striking me very nicely as I was listening to that. And I feel really nice and comfortable. I mean when I was taking notes.

All of these moments where I'm saying something and I just stop because I don't want to or I don't care about it... it's such a nice thing. And I'm so happy that that's something I'm able to do and letting myself do. Of just being like, "Eh, shut up." :D "I don't wanna talk about that or listen to that." Especially during the note-taking process, just having this freedom to... write down all kinds of stuff that has nothing to do with what I was actually saying. Just establishing that this whole process is not some strait-laced, straightforward like... everything has to be in the right place. It's just like, ah, I do whatever the f*** I want. And if it works, then that's amazing. And if it doesn't, then f*** you go away, you know? Lol. It's a really nice thing.

Uh, I keep saying this, but I like cursing *so much*. I'm such a big fan of it, haha. :) It's amazing. It's... it's what I like doing. ;) Lol.

Uh, do I need to keep writing, or... I mean, I'm going to get out of this soft state eventually. I'm going to draw myself onto some other tangent, or... I don't know.

Um, I didn't go walking yesterday. I think I might have misspoken in one of my previous chunks and said I did, but I didn't. I was referring to two days ago. Walking has been benefitting me immensely.

Um, but I've noticed the past couple days I've been feeling tired while I've been walking. And yesterday I got home from my usual Friday thing and, by the time I was home it was 9:00 pm. I've been staying at work until like, 7:00-8:00 pm every day. I mean, I work pretty late to begin with. Like, I'm usually on the 9:30 - 6:00 shift as opposed to... some people who come in at 6:00 or 7:00 and are gone by 4:00.

Um, yeah I've been putting a lot of effort into work. Writing solitary, this probably would have been the first thing that I would have talked about. I would have just jumped right into that. And I wouldn't have all of this side stuff about expression and writing style and solitary vs. social. It's just like, I kind of get right down to business and I'm just focused on like, "Okay, what is there--is it working, what can I do about it." And I'm just rattling off different elements, listing them, not really making any sense. It's a lot more similar to my notes. It's just me listing words and stuff and it all goes very smoothly and nicely. This is going smoothly and nicely in a different way, but it's a lot longer, it's a lot less direct, it's a lot less efficient. But, as I said above, it's accomplishing this goal of achieving a certain type of social integration that I don't currently have.

And that's something that came up in my notes, which I think I've mentioned on here [7Cups] before. I can't remember if I posted an image or not. Or was that on Facebook a few months ago? Can't remember but... this image from The Sims or all of these RPG's where you've got like, these different health bars or level meters. And it's like, you've got different needs. Each one is at a different level of satisfaction.

And then going back to what I said before about stages of enlightenment and, having to give up certain things or temporarily break apart certain integrated states in order to... achieve a broader, more complete integration. I mentioned Dabrowski in my notes. He had some interesting things to say on that. But, I don't really care about that all that much.

Um, so yeah, what the f*** am I doing... what am I writing about, what do I want to talk about. Um... I do notice my speech speeds up eventually as I get better situated. Or it doesn't always happen, or it'll happen and then it'll stop. But I mean, that's just sort of what piano improvisations do [too]. They speed up, they stutter, they go through all kinds of shifts and it's just everything doing what it needs to do and--oh my god, I'm at 5 minutes already, Jesus. Lolll.

LOL... yeah, I'm allowed to say the Lord's name in vain. This is not a religious site. This does not discriminate against people [who are less religious] and this is my own f***ing thread so, yay. Lol.

Fluttershy: yay ^_^

I like all of this... cross-referencing and allusive stuff. Uh, I shouldn't say GIF's. GIF's are a sensitive topic right now, aren't they. Ah, f***.

[30 second pause]

Ah, I'm just breathing it out I guess. Letting things settle. Letting the pond waters sort of--letting the waves coming to a stillness, and then something else will pop up. [pause] Or maybe nothing will, and that'll be fine.

I do feel significantly better than when I started writing. And that's almost always the case with these verbal writing sessions. Usually it'll be some kind of emotional processing. Or if it's something where I'm trying to figure out what to do or what my direction is then, I'll come up with something and then I'll just like, bolt up and start doing that thing or have a set of categories or something.

I haven't done any dream writing in a while. I haven't done *writing period*, lol... for like the past 2-3 weeks. [sigh] I mean, I have done some but... not like I used to. That's a function of time. That's a function of work kicking my a** really badly for... 2 weeks and me trying to keep some energy in reserve or trying not to open up Pandora's box while knowing that I have to stop partway through and just being in this sort of wide-open, vulnerable state where I then have to go out into the world--

It's kind of like cleaning a room, like... when you start, you're taking stuff out of shelves, you're opening up stuff, you're creating a huge mess. Because that's what you have to do. You have to--it's like, stuff is in a starting state and it's all crammed in, and you have to pull it out. You have to create space.

You have to have a space where you can put it though, so it's like... to be able to move stuff around sort of like... [pause] I'm thinking of a couple video game things where it's like, you're moving blocks and... if you're going to move a block [somewhere] you have to have a space to move it into. Like, it's the same thing with cleaning a room. And it's the same thing with uh, mental housekeeping [chuckle] and all of that s*** I guess.

There has to be some space to put stuff into. If you're totally preoccupied and you've got real-world s*** going on, like I did a week ago where I just had s*** happening every single day, then... yeah, you can't be doing that. Or if it's like this week where every single day, I've come home at... 8, 8:30 pm... by the time I finish my usual routines, it's 10:30/11 pm... eh, it's stressful. I don't have the time and I don't have the *mental* space, even if I have the physical energy. I can't *start* writing while knowing that if I really get into something good and juicy, I'm going to want to do it for, 2 or 3 hours. Like, I don't want to start it and then have to stop myself.

That's... the reason I'm able to write at this moment is because I know I have a bunch of time ahead of me. I know I have nothing going on tomorrow. I know I'm not going to do work over the weekend. And, I don't have a lot of super-stressful social stuff coming up either. I'm in a good state where I have... like, it's something that I'm able to do right now, that's what it boils down to. [laughing] I'm up to 10 minutes.

(The way I know I'm up to these markers is... I haven't adjusted my power settings on my laptop. So it's like every 5 minutes, my screen just turns off. And I have to move the cursor so that it comes back. My Audacity keeps recording [though]. Ahh, none of this f***ing matters though. Okay, lol.)

I've got this sort of new profile image on here. I was thinking of rewriting my profile description because that's super-old. I'm not sure if I have any of those diagnoses or if it's really relevant, but it feels like the sort of thing that's... it's nice to have there. So if I do write something completely ballsy or stupid, and other people are like, "Who the f*** is this guy," and click on my picture or username or whatever, they can see that and be like, "Oh, yeah I guess this person's trying their best and they've got stuff going on. So they're not just some totally normal dude who's coming in wrecking s*** for no reason and being a piece of s***..." LOL. Hahaha... it's all good.

I'll say it again, I f***ing love cursing. It's what I do. :) I love cursing, lol.

I hope it gives other people the freedom to curse. :P Because I'm sure they like doing it too.

And it's not like I'm even angry or anything. It [cursing] has all these really nice uses to it. It's a tonality thing. It just--in the current situation, it feels like it... it adds this sort of 2-ish edge, but also this sort of 4-ish edge... if I'm using that whole self-state/schema whatever sort of... system. [chuckle]

It's been really convenient that, um... when I decided to write that post explaining all of that, it just so happened to put me onto Page 2 of this thread. So it's just always up there at the top. [pause]

Though I did notice that starting with that post, there's been a major drop-off in engagement with this particular thread. And there are a number of ways I could look at that. I could be thinking strategically or like, from a marketing perspective of like, "What sort of writing should I be doing that will attract people and keep them there and..." lol. Maybe it's the sort of thing where I had some people on [this thread reading it regularly] and... like, I assume that they left. Because it's not the comments so much that I'm looking at [for gauging that type of thing], because I know I personally just go around upvoting stuff... when I don't have the time to comment, or when I don't feel super-confident in a topic or like I have anything super-meaningful to contribute. Or if someone seems like they have their s*** together, I--well, but that isn't to say that I comment when someone doesn't have their s*** together. [uncomfortable laugh] Yeah...

[pause] I comment when I feel like I have something to contribute. When I feel like I'm going to enjoy writing that stuff that I have to contribute. Or if there's a situation where it feels like it's extremely important that I comment. But I also do ignore people--not in the sense of being like, "Oh you're not worth my time" but in the sense of like... I'll see stuff, I'll upvote it, I might feel like it's something where it would be worthwhile for *someone* to comment on it... but I have a feeling of like, maybe I'm not the right person to do it. [voice softens] And much of the time, there is someone else who comes along... and I feel very grateful that someone is fulfilling that niche and doing what needs to be done. Like, it doesn't have to be me doing it.

That was one of the things I really liked about this forum experience compared to... one-on-one [7Cups] listening sessions. And that was a topic that was on my list from a week ago. That's something I've been wanting to talk about for a while... this sort of distinction between the experience of doing 7Cups "chats" with this sort of instant messaging listening experience... versus this sort of forum experience. And there are multiple differences.

One of them is that the chatting experience is instantaneous. So, you don't have a lot of time to deliberate or come up with what you want to say. It's sort of like the difference between blitz chess and classical chess. Or sort of like the difference between... well, I wouldn't say that my current speaking thing that I'm doing [right now] is like that. I really could just pause for 10 minutes if I wanted to. Whereas if I was doing a live chat with someone, that isn't really an option. Or I'd have to preface--well, it's certainly not something I could do from a listening side. But I guess from the member side, if I really wanted to, I could do it. But then I would feel like I was wasting the other person's time.

But this audio thing, if I was sharing the audio recording, then I would have that sense [of wasting people's time by pausing]. But because I'm transcribing it, in the written form I would just put something like "[long pause]" or whatever. And that would take care of it. Like, I can do whatever I want here. That's still the case. Without feeling like I'm yanking other people around or, wasting their time, or subjecting them to something. Other than maybe wasting their time by writing a whole bunch of s*** and creating a huge wall of text. But, as I said before, people are free to read it or not read it.

But there is a sort of thing where if I write something and [chuckle] ...it doesn't get any attention or whatever... maybe that makes other people feel guilty that they're not engaging with it or [they're like], "Ahhh... I can't... I can't read all this s***. Sorry dude." Ahh, [yeah] I respect it.

So, that's kind of why if I'm doing any writing, I want it to be something that is purposeful for me irrespective of whether other people engage with it or not.

Maybe I shouldn't be calling out names or listing people but, I have a really deep admiration for what Polaris does with all of his threads. Like, he's just doing his own thing. I'm sure that he craves some attention or interaction, because I know that he's said that explicitly. But it's like... as much as I might feel sometimes like I'm not getting quite as much attention as other people--though I don't feel that way now. Even if in terms of numbers it might be less, like... the people who get more than me are people who have made much more effort to reach out to other people... and who have established a ton of connections and are helping other people, or have been helpful to other people in the past. I'm doing some stuff to help other people, but I'm not--I'm definitely not as engaged as some other people. So, it's completely understandable that there would be these people who have reached out and--oh, I guess they have links [to their diary threads] in their profiles as well. But even before that [they had people reading]. Like, these are established people, and... I've only been around for a month or two. And I haven't really explored [the forum] outside of this niche area. I don't really engage with more than 4 or 5 people [on a regular basis].

Compared to these other people who... they're in a leadership situation where they've volunteered or decided that... they're going to be responsible for a particular thread. And they're creating a space for other people, anybody, to write stuff. And there's a sort of obligation on their part to respond to it or to be helpful. And... that was something that I really felt early on that I wanted to avoid.

I was offered, um, a role doing like, site stuff or whatever, like, in the first couple days that I was on here. Because I was writing all of this stuff about technical aspects of the forum. And someone came along and was like, "Hey, would you be interested in volunteering for this?" And my [internal] reaction at that point was like, "I don't even know if I want to be on this f***ing site. One of my fears is I'm going to be stuck here and have obligations to other people. Would I really volunteer for something?"

Like, that was one of the reasons I got away from the listening stuff [in the first place]. And [that is] one of the things that I dislike about the one-on-one chats [as a listener]... is that you're sort of trapped there. There's a person who's dependent upon you... and it's your responsibility to... to be there for them and do stuff for them. I mean, that's what you're signing up for [by being a listener]. That's the purpose of that role. And it's like, if you feel like you have the energy to be there and you're... able to do it effectively and... you have something to offer and you're in a good state or... you have enough spaciousness that you're able to absorb stuff and take it in and sort of digest it..... then yeah, that's a nice thing. But if you're not in that state... then yeah, why would you put yourself there.

And my whole thing with the member role that I really appreciate... it feels like I can do all the same stuff that I could as a listener. Though lately I've been feeling like... I wish I could go around with my listener account on here and use the forum that way. But, I wasn't being very intelligent when I set up my [member/listener user] names initially. They're... pretty similar. I won't say how... but, I strongly suspect that if I started using my listener account on this forum... especially if I was posting in the same spaces where I usually am... um, people would be able to figure out who I was... and that, like... it's the same person as FrigidStars. Just from the name alone [they'd be able to figure that out]. Probably somewhat from the writing style [too].

But sort of a rules thing that I don't see being enforced very heavily... people are going around using their member name, and then using their listener name... and it's extremely obvious [chuckle] that they're the same people. Because they're posting in the same thread. Or you'll have a person accidentally posting with their listener name and then going back to their member name... and it's obviously the same tone, it's the same topic, it's the same perspective.

So like, why aren't they getting punished for that, if the forum rules are something that matter? Why am I so hung up about limiting myself?

Like, there are clear-cut, obvious cases where people are breaking the rules. Um, one of the things that I've really wanted to write about... uh... yesterday, day before, was the recent conflict that led to my friend's... diary thread getting closed I suppose. I assume that that was a voluntary thing.

That was something that I so wanted to write about. I still want to write about it. And... that was something where I was feeling extremely grateful to [FeelItInYour]Bones for having given me permission like a month ago [to write about my past conflict with him]... I haven't used it yet, but it's... it's like my silver bullet or trump card that I'm holding in reserve. It's like [pause] it's like if I'm in my most desperate, darkest place or I really need that type of thing, it's something that I have the ability to write about. And that means so much to me and I'm so grateful to him for granting me that permission.

Like, what was initially a pretty stressful, dangerous situation [for me] now feels like one of the safest things that I could possibly write about. Because I know for certain that I have that person's permission and that it's very unlikely that I'm going to hurt them. And that they're okay with me doing it [i.e. writing about that conflict]. That's just... tremendous. He didn't have to give me that permission, but because he did, it makes all the difference in the world.

And I feel like at the time, I wasn't saying it explicitly... but in the back of my mind, I was feeling like there was a 50-75% chance that if I didn't get that permission, I would just straight-up leave the site. Because at that point, like... [if I'm in that situation] I've reached this [psychological] place where I really need to be able to write. And to *not* be able to write, like... and to make myself dependent on this site, and to be trying to use it for that, it's like... if I can't it for that [writing that I need to do], then what's the f***ing point? [pause] And like, I can [i.e. could] just go away and do my own thing like I was doing [before I joined this site].

[Clarification: all of this is describing a past situation in which I had this feeling of considering leaving the site. These are not present feelings.]

But then, I don't know what other sites exist and... I did certainly come here out of loneliness. Like, the day that I joined this site*, I was feeling really desperate.

[*"Joined this site" = started using this forum actively as a member a couple months ago.]

[pause] Um, are we done [writing] then? I mean, it's been about 26 minutes, heh. Just keeps going. But that's good. I don't mind if I talk for 4 hours. It's actually better if I do. I tend to completely destroy my physical well-being over the weekends. I feel significantly worse on Monday than I do on Friday. Like, having that wide-open expanse of time... habits sort of fill the space. That's something I was going to talk about at some point. Not right now though.

I really love NoneTheWiser's analogy with the "Beware of Dog" sign. It just makes me laugh. It's so accurate, lol.

I love certain people on this site in general. As a general thing, if I'm commenting on your threads, that means I really like you and I think you're an awesome person.

I had this thing a couple days ago where it was like... I said on one post that I noticed 10 different things that were legitimately kind and the response was like, "Oh I don't believe you," or "Oh, I wish I could see the same kind things that you do." [laughing] Part of me was [feeling] like, "Oh yeah, that would be pretty fun to just go through this [person's] post and just straight-up make a list of every single kind of compassionate thing I come across." ... sort of prove you wrong, you know? :) Be like, "Yeah, you are this super-cool person" and whatever.

But then I guess I know that feeling of like... sort of how I was when I started doing all of this writing today that I'm posting here. When you're in a certain physical state or mental place, it's like, "I know that I'm s***", you know? Lol. "I know that I'm not in a good place. I know that the stuff I have to say is not coming from a good place. And... it feels like it's out-of-sync or asynchronous with what I am and how I'm feeling for someone to come along and tell me, 'Oh, you're doing great. You're amazing.' when I don't actually feel that to be the case. And when I know for certain based on my own... sensations and my sense in my body that like, I'm not where I... want to be or where I could be or where I normally am."

So like... and that's something I really want to be sensitive to as well is like, if someone--[laughs] it's funny to say this, but. If someone really truly hates themselves, I want it to be okay for them to feel that way. Well, it's sort of a catch-22, or it's something where... there are different approaches. And that's a whole other topic of like, listener philosophy and different strategies and helping strategies. And that [actually] is a topic I've been hoping to write about and that was in my list from a couple weeks ago. Oh... this is so rambly. I don't even remember what i was saying... I'm sure if I was doing note-taking I'd remember.

Ah, I think I remember. Um, so it's like, if someone is saying that they hate themselves, there are sort of two strategies you could take with that.

One is that you could try to convince them of like, "No, you're a great person" and try to like, steer them back in a positive direction.

And the other is to be sort of like [voice softens] "I love the fact that you're so honest. I love the fact that you're able to say things like that." Just this sort of really sweet, gentle... [voice gets even softer] "It's so brave of you to say something like that when you're so vulnerable... and I hope you feel like it's okay for you to continue saying things like that. I hope you feel like it's okay for you to say that you hate yourself... to express whatever negative feelings you're feeling. I hope that this is a safe space where you're able to do that."

And I just feel so good saying all of those things and... even just listening to them as I'm speaking right now. It's just such a nice thing to say. <3

[voice back to normal] But it has to be said in a certain way. Like, you don't want to be encouraging someone like, "Oh yeah, I agree with you." [laughing] "that you're a hateful, despicable person". Like, it has to be framed in a certain way. Otherwise it just does come across as like, reinforcing someone being like [chuckling], "Yup! You're just as bad as you say you are. Have a nice day! :P" And it's like, "Oh, f*** that." LOL. I don't want to do that.

And I have had some listener chats [where I was the listener] where I've been talking to people who... I don't know how to say it, they just aren't attuned to that... type of worldview or philosophy [of accepting or being open to feelings]. They're *really* looking for a way to get out. And it was just a mismatch where I was coming at it from a sort of place of, "Oh, it's okay for you to say that you hate yourself." And maybe it was just an English thing and something where they weren't quite as intellectual or wordy or sentence structure or something, but it's like, they came away feeling like I was agreeing with them or saying that they are someone who deserves to be hated... when it wasn't anything like that at all [from my side but it sounded like it to them]. And I was just trying to... um, create an environment in which it's okay for them to say that.

And it's something where for certain people, that's humongous and an incredible [super-helpful] thing to be allowed to say certain things [that are negative and have them be accepted without any attempt to change or alter them]. Whereas for other people, they really are looking for just like... the silver bullet or Swiss army knife that's going to take them out of that place and they're looking for more of a problem-solving, cognitive-behavioral type of approach.

And that's fair. Like, I totally use all of those [some of those] approaches myself. But I do see them as existing within a humanistic framework where... I am free to decide *not* to use CBT-type approaches. Like, if I *don't* want to "solve" a problem and I just want to express things and be whatever the f*** I am, that's completely acceptable. And that's something I'll allow myself to do. And it's like that freedom is a precondition for being able to do all of those behavioral things without feeling like I'm *forcing* it on myself. And just from a trauma perspective or... just a freedom and safety perspective... it's incredibly important to me to start from the broadest possible perspective in which I can do whatever the h*** I want. And if that happens to be being miserable, then I want to be able to do that. I want that to be something that I'm allowed to do.

If it's me solving my problems and sort of ruthlessly going in and tearing apart [chuckle] uh, negative thoughts or whatever, and just being extremely sharp and hard-nosed about it--just wanting to find the solution... wanting to create a system, wanting to solve the problem... wanting to sort of like, work my way through it as if I were bulldozing through a task at my work or trying to come up with the best possible strategy in a very analytical, ruthless sort of way.... [then I value] having the freedom to do that as well.

Having the freedom to switch between all of these different approaches. That's the purpose of self-states for me. To establish, "Hey, I am all of these different things and they're all valid and legitimate. And maybe on this day I'm going to feel like doing this, and on this other day I'm going to feel like doing this." And that was something that I made very clear in the first post in this thread... that I want this thread to be somewhere where I'm just... able to switch back and forth between different things. It's like me changing my profile picture or whatever. I can be masculine one day. I can be feminine the next. I can be mad [very] depressed and angry or whatever one day... and then analytical another day... and then this sort of bubbly, cute, sexual thing another day. (I'm not saying that sexual and bubbly are one and the same, but for me they overlap. Yeah, whatever--that's another topic. Ahh... but I like putting in disclaimers when I can to clarify or qualify.)

Eh, is there anything else I want to talk about? I'm at 36 minutes... lol. It just keeps growing and growing and growing. But it's going well. This just happens every once in a while. I'll do this verbal thing for like... 2, 3, 4 hours. I think my longest--I don't think I've gone to 4 hours, but 3 I have gone to.

Um, yeah this'll probably be the end of it, though I can't promise that. [pause] That's the thing... don't make promises about what I'm going to be or do in the future. Don't make commitments. [pause] Still so many topics that I haven't covered but...

Now I am getting that feeling of like... I don't want to open up Pandora's box. And it's... in this case it's not so much--well it's a few things. It's that the topics themselves are difficult. It's that they're very long and I feel like I've sort of exhausted my physical energy a bit by talking for however long. And it's that I am starting to feel like I don't have quite as much time as I would need to do that. And also possibly that's something that would be better to approach through my normal written communication. I have no idea. But it doesn't feel like now is the right time for that.

Uh, cheers.

***

Notes #4

soft comforting stop pause gentle okay sleep
no walking, physical energy, benefits, work
tiredness commitments responsibilities systems

solitary writing
integration of social and personal
meters, needs, different levels
disintegration
ebb and flow

5 brt sen
drm wrt

[Stopping--I don't really feel like I want/need to take notes on this.]

@admaiorasemper If you see this, I just want you to know that I'm thinking about you, I'm glad that you're sticking up for yourself, and I completely support you doing whatever you need to do. 💜

Analysis of guilt

Okay! Was feeling guilty about a bunch of things, but thought of something interesting.

Background

First, was feeling guilty because:
1) I've potentially hurt some people on here
2) I've potentially hurt someone in real life

Effects of guilt

Guilt messes up my body. Like, all of my physical energy just recedes and vanishes into the void, as if it were being withdrawn or withheld from me because I don't feel like I deserve to possess it. Like I want to punish myself and suffer, so my body starts hurting itself as a way of trying to fulfill my desires.

What anxiety is trying to do in general

I think I can understand the purpose of guilt by analogy.

It's like if I'm at work, someone gives me a super-urgent task, and I become stressed and start working more frantically so that I can complete it. The frantic feeling is instrumental and beneficial and it has a specific goal.

"I desperately want to finish this thing to avoid something bad happening, so I'm going to work 2x as hard and pour ALL of my energy and will into this to make sure it gets done. And I want you to know how earnest I am and how much I care about this, and I won't let you down."

It's analogous to the fight/flight response. It's my body-mind saying, "I'm going to work SUPER hard and get completely revved up and suffer stress in the hopes that this extra burst of energy/motivation/passion will give me the drive to do what I need to do."

Where anxiety is impotent and transforms into guilt

The problem that arises is when a situation doesn't get better as a result of that extra energy/stress.

The stressful feeling doesn't have any constructive action to pour itself into. It's just helplessly stuck there watching people suffer. Sort of like I'm in a cage, I'm watching someone else get hurt, I'm clawing at the cage trying to force my way out to get to that person and help, but my actions are in vain and I can't help them.

1) There's a desperation wanting to apply itself to action
2) But there are no efficacious actions for it to pour itself into

I have a feeling of earnest motivation and stress (because of desperately not wanting to hurt people), but nothing I can do is actually helpful or discharges/satisfies that motivation.

I'm speculating that when this happens, one possible result is that those guilty feelings fester/linger because they aren't able to cathart/expel in a way that reduces the feeling of moral badness. So then, that leads to a sort of generalized feeling of "I am a bad/harmful/awful person in general who hurts people and fails everyone".

Perspective on current situations where I feel guilty: impossible double-binds

As I started thinking about the situations where I'm feeling guilty, something that struck me is... I'm wondering if they maybe aren't just awful situations that are intrinsically set up in such a way that *somebody* has to get hurt.

And then it's exacerbated by the fact that the chess player in me is thinking 5 moves ahead and predicting/anticipating/imagining all of the possible outcomes... and the empath in me perceives that nearly all of those outcomes are "bad futures" that lead to people being hurt. So then it's as if I have to choose who gets hurt, how much they get hurt, and what sort of hurt they are going to feel. I'm not a fan.

Sort of like The Joker is giving me a gun and forcing me to decide who has to die. One of those f--ing lifeboat ethics or trolley problem thought experiments, you know?

Interesting implications: perspective change if all options are bad

Then, it occurred to me that maybe I'm thinking about this all wrong.

Imagine that everyone's happiness/suffering can be quantified numerically. Like, let's say there's a scale from -100 to 100 where -100 is torture and 100 is ecstasy. Inspirations:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felicific_calculus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory#Representation_of_games

I'm thinking that maybe the empathic/sensitive reactions I'm experiencing in my body... are based on me trying to find a possible outcome where the net change in happiness for every person is non-negative (>= 0).

Maybe the reality is that I really do have to select between two options where one is -40 and the other is -70.

The perspective shift

if that is simply how the situation is objectively set up, instead of feeling depressed that both options are less than zero, maybe I should be devoting my efforts to finding the -40 option that minimizes harm... and feel gratified or like I've done something good by finding the least-worst option?

Maybe I could put some effort into developing a framework for analyzing morally ambiguous situations like this, and develop an evaluation process whereby I can feel as though I am doing my best, I am making good on my pacifistic intentions as much as possible, and I can be at peace with my decisions?

Currently I don't have a way of doing this. I just panic if there's any possibility of me hurting anybody. :) And I mean, if it were someone else and they were like that... my instinct would be to want to give them a hug and be like, "Aww, you're an amazing person for caring so much about everyone. It's okay! [comforts] You're not a bad person. I appreciate how hard you're trying and how much you care about this. I'm sorry you're suffering so much. I know you really just want to exist in this world without hurting anybody. I'm sorry it's so difficult to do that."

Like, I wonder if I could become some sort of robot that can look at horrible situations, and by the end feel satisfied of, "Aha--I've made the optimal choice that has the best expected value." And if someone comes back and complains, feeling like I'd be able to explain and justify my analysis and decision-making.

Like, if I can come up with a way of turning all of this stuff into numbers... then it's just a matter of coming up with algorithms/decision trees/functions that use those numbers as inputs and spit out a decision as an output. :P

Hey, are these things you work out with a therapist? It's all really interesting

Moral/emotive analysis of a real-world situation

[this is an edited/reorganized transcript of an audio recording]

Introduction

I started using the chart structure that I previously created to analyze one of the two situations that were bothering me that I alluded to in my post on guilt. The one I chose to analyze was the "real-world" situation, which I've yet to describe.

I believed that this would be an easier situation to analyze than any 7Cups situation that I might think of.

Overview of situation - background

I will start by describing the general features of the real-world situation that I am considering.

Something that I've very briefly mentioned in a prior post is that I'm a musician and I play piano. For as long as I can remember, I've been involved in musical groups. I had an especially close relationship with a music director in high school and have continued to help him (and others associated with that high school) with various musical projects.

Several years ago, this music director decided to form a musical group and asked me to assist him with this group. He told me that he felt that without me, it would not be possible for this group to survive. And this group was something that he was passionate about attempting.

I was excited at the time and agreed to help with this. But, there were a number of issues with the group and I enjoyed it far less than I expected.

About a year ago, I became disgusted with all of my extracurricular activities and obligations--partly due to my own personal development and the realization that these were activities that I did not actually enjoy but was only doing to please other people.

The musical group that I have been describing disbanded before I was ever forced to assert boundaries or communicate that I wanted to quit the group. (For the other three or four musical activities I was involved in, I did end up quitting. And I have continued to remain at a distance from all similar activities to the present day.)

Overview of situation - current situation

The current situation that I was dealing with today is that the music director called me noting that he wanted to start up the group again. He asked whether I would be interested in assisting him.

Within about ten seconds of him asking the question, I had made an intuitive decision (based on a general feeling of discomfort or uneasiness that I experienced in the prior moments) that I did not want to help with this group. I communicated this to him and he understood. He has a potential backup so it is likely that the group will continue without me.

The moral dilemma that I am currently analyzing is: whether or not my decision to not help out with this group was okay based on potential harm to other people.

Results of chart: made the right decision

I have grouped my actions into a few sub-scenarios. The main stakeholders are listed in the columns. Ultimately, based on what I've entered, the numbers seem to support my initial decision.

Analysis: condensed summary of factors

What is interesting is that I can look at the "Row" columns and see how impactful each individual factor was in the overall/final analysis. Here is another more condensed chart that I made that consolidates some of the data.

Overall findings

Looking at the sub-totals in the condensed chart, the general conclusions are:
1) If I don't help, the expected result is that the music group is still happy (+16.25) and that there is little to no impact on me (+7).
2) If I do help, the music group is even happier (+57.75), but this is canceled out 2 to 1 by my own unhappiness (-46) and potential impact on 7Cups users I might otherwise be helping if things stayed status quo (-45)
3) The most impactful individual factor on the overall decision is the potential loss of help I'd otherwise be offering to 7Cups users (-70) if I had a negative experience with the music group

Other interesting tid-bits

There are some scenarios where I'm actually happier after saying no than I would be if I were never asked to help

In the action where I don't help, I actually identified a 35% chance of a benefit for my own happiness over scenarios in which I was never asked to help out.

1) 10% chance that the music group is super-supportive and I come away feeling like they are accepting of my boundaries (+5).
2) 25% chance that the music group doesn't care one way or the other about me leaving, and I come away feeling like I'm able to assert boundaries without it hurting people (+12.5).

Music group is happy either way

If I don't join, I still believe that there's an 85% chance that the music group as a whole is happy without me. Comparatively, I believe there's an 80% chance that they're happy if I do join.

To-write list is getting huge again. Brain dump time... list of potential writing topics.

Listener/helping philosophy
* Defining current goals (i.e. be a successful/effective helper, but also be comfortable/happy while doing it)
* Developing strategy for accomplishing those goals (i.e. discussion of theoretical framework, discussion of technique, discussion of problems, discussion of ethical dilemmas)
* Analysis of problems identified in prior strategizing (~1 year ago) re: helping (i.e. people dependent upon me, people angry at me, people who share things I find uninteresting/boring)
* When/whether to use listener account (i.e. defining how I want to use member and listener accounts, extent to which they are distinct, purpose of each of them)
* Current plan regarding listener username (i.e. requested username change for listener account to maintain anonymity, 2-week waiting period, so I've put 12/1/19 on my calendar as the date when I possibly go rogue and start posting from my listener account [despite risks of my member/listener accounts being linked to one another] if my request isn't approved by that date... that would definitely be a candidate situation for moral analysis though)

Moral analysis items
* Whether it was a good idea for me to share chart stuff yesterday
* Whether my responses to dworth257's questions in this thread were injurious/harmful to anyone
* Whether to share audio recordings of myself speaking
* Whether to share my first name on this site
* Whether uppercase vs. lowercase in username has aesthetic effects that are significant from a morality/identity standpoint
* Conflict at work with subordinate, whether my actions on Friday in response were acceptable/optimal

Other general analysis/discussion items
* Past conflict between bones and myself [~1 month ago]
* Recent conflict between A and H
* Profile picture

Miscellaneous
* Discussion of Rick and Morty S4E2 (i.e. pooping as self-expression of vulnerability, empathy/friendship, etc.)
* Was considering sharing this song three days ago but never did:
Popol Vuh - Wo bist du?
* Spotify daily mixes are a convenient/automated way of tracking/categorizing music tastes:

1) Neurosis, Isis, Protest the Hero [post-metal/sludge metal]
2) The Chameleons, Suede, The Undertones [post-punk/alt-rock]
3) Killswitch Engage, Light the Torch, All That Remains [melodic metalcore]
4) Kyuss, Queens of the Stone Age, All Them Witches [stoner metal]
5) Ride, The Jesus and Mary Chain, The Sundays [shoegaze/dream pop]
6) Erasure, Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark, Kylie Minogue [synth-pop/dance-pop]