Bullying
Why I am not seeking any support in groups anymore.
Trigger Warning: mention of suicide (other people, not myself)
Yesterday in the afternoon, I sought support on a group chat, my beloved Sharing Circle. At least, it used to be “beloved.”
I did bring up my issue I was hoping to toss into the group for what is usually intelligent and supportive feedback. Very quickly, the topic of the group conversation became: Bullying.
Which was fine, when it was us exploring our own attitudes towards bullying and what we were doing about them, but less so, when one of the participants in the Sharing Circle started engaging in vicious bullying of their own.
I felt compelled, in my mind, to defend a person I knew well, who was not standing down, and who called out the bully. I am proud of that person. I didn’t, at that moment in time, have the personal resources to do or say anything beyond that. I tried to share a story about a bully who got Karma, but then later, after exiting the Sharing Circle, my mind turned to another case, that had a much less rosy ending, where the boy turned to suicide as his solution for long-lasting bullying he was enduring at his school. My mind also turned to a beloved co-worker, who took her own life after being bullied by, of all people, her own husband.
These thoughts made me feel very sad. And the sadness has persisted to today, when I am still feeling this mourning of the loss of these two souls, along with other souls (would you like me to list them?) who have died at their own hand because of being bullied: by others, by society, by their own families, by their terrible feeling of unworthiness.
Sometimes I am sad anyway about the turn society seems to take, with bullies being rewarded for their bad actions.
Also, I didn’t like it that it took at least fifteen minutes for a Community Mod to show up after they had been called.
I’m tired of reporting this sort of thing.
I’m tired of taking screen shots. I’m tired of trying to keep up with people who have rogue accounts or who create accounts just to pester, bother and torment other people who are coming here for support. Some really mean and manipulative people out there. Who needs that energy?
I’m tired of seeing my friends leave this site because they have been bullied terribly.
All of this is wearing out my soul.
I will take a rest now. Perhaps I will deactivate my account. Perhaps not. I have a choice.
I already know that it will do no good to “report.” This has proven to be like a Timeless and Endless Vortex of Shame and Uselessness when I have done it.
So, I will withdraw from this site until I have found my own Center and Ground again.
Which will surely happen.
In the meantime, to the Bullies, I would like to say this:
1. Don’t mock people.
2. Don’t taunt or tease people about the things they are sensitive about. That’s mean.
3. If you have nothing nice to say here, don’t say anything.
4. Stop picking fights.
5. Leave this site for people who are seeking support.
6. Your actions as a Bully are not welcome here.
7. I am angry at your actions, and I choose to not engage.
8. I will not mute you, because you are, sadly, part of society.
9. I will tolerate you, but in the case of this website, I have a choice, so I will not enter groups for now.
10. I will continue to live, and I will live well in spite of your sad attempts at mocking and meanness.
11. Go away.
12. When you figure how to act better, maybe you can come crawling back.
13. You possibly will find people to help you, or you will find people who Remember and who seek Justice. And Justice will be Served.
Sincerely yours,
Patience
Good Wiki-How article on 12 ways to stop bullies: https://www.wikihow.com/Stop-Bullies
More thoughts on Bullying.
I am still thinking, after reading some of the articles I posted here, about all the detrimental effects of bullying, including the effects of:
1. Making young people incredibly insecure.
2. Immediate physical effects such as physical injury.
3. Long term effects such as headaches, sleep disturbances and feelings of illness such as sleep disturbances, gastrointestinal concerns, headaches, palpitations, and chronic pain.
4. Possibly meaningful biological alterations that may result in changes in one’s sensitivity to pain responses.
5. Social pain.
6. Psychosocial consequences including internalizing (low self-esteem, depression, anxiety, loneliness, self-harming behavior) and externalizing problems (behavior directed outwards towards others such as anger, aggression, and conduct problems including a tendency to engage in risky and impulsive behavior, as well as criminal behavior).
7. There is a connection between bullying and school shootings.
The above points are summarized from the article mentioned earlier in the posts here, from the National Library of Medicine, Preventing Bullying through Science, Policy and Practice.
I hope you get the chance to read this article if you ever have any doubts about the negative effects of bullying.
Thank you.
@PatienceImpatiens There's certainly a lot of different ways bullying can affect people. And it's not just children that can affected. Adults bystanders and even the bullies themselves are affected negatively
@PatienceImpatiens
I would also add that bullying as a child affects you as an adult. There will always be a tiny child inside of you, even as an older adult such as myself, never forgetting what took place. I don't think others realize how important this topic really is.
Sending you peace and love. Thank you for having the strength and insight to talk about this.
Also, I found there's a fight one goes through with oneself.
A person can "gaslight" their own selves to say, "That memory was wrong!"
So, I was lonely, and I wanted to see my friends so I did go into a group again. And a person was sharing how they were accused of something wrong, when they were really a fair and good person--- I'm not going into any detail because obviously this was said in confidence and I'm all about protecting privacy. And, I realized, no, this is human behavior, for one human to think they "know better" and they will tell another human, or try to tell them through actions, that they are better. It's a constant power struggle. Because there is a power imbalance.
As soon as we think of each other as truly equal, as truly equal of worth of living a dignified and peaceful life, and we can learn to co-exist, then the whole way we treat each other changes as well.
But then, wars would not exist, because the war machine that thrives on the profits made by wars, would go rusty. The big Infants in their High Chairs, who like to Bully all of us into thinking these things are even necessary, would be put completely out of business.
And it can all start with conversations. Maybe halting conversations at first, with apologies for bad whatever: vocabulary, command of English (a thing that is not necessary on the chats), and then a finding of common ground.
Do we all, Each of us, in the Heart of Things, want to live Peacefully, Harmoniously, with Joy in our Songs and Love around us?
I'm pretty sure we don't want each other to struggle, suffocating to find our breath, killing each other in the name of What?
Maybe this is my Plea to God to make it Easier for all of us to find this Path to Goodness, to Righteousness, to Kindness. Like Job did in the Bible. It's difficult but I'm still trying.
@PatienceImpatiens Omgosh yeah. I went through this afterwards. Thinking about all the things that were said and thinking omg maybe I am that person they claimed I was. Tbh - I still struggle with those thoughts sometimes. Even though the bullying stops the damage remains. Even if they decide to say they're sorry - the damage remains. It doesn't just magically disappear because they apologized. And they get upset with you
@mytwistedsoul
Yes, and conversation, "working it through" as it were, is key to anything being resolved. That's even how the diplomats do it. They finally arrive at a "treaty" or have "peace talks," or one would hope they are working towards that, even though at times they seem to be limping forward too slowly.
Also, you have noted the damage that can be done by people from outside twisting our words, or otherwise using our own words to harm us.
I feel like I personally have moved past this particular incident, but I remain cautious, "on guard." Ready to close computer if necessary, this seems like the working strategy for me.
Also, I have found it refreshing to have the dialogue here on the forums, so maybe when an issue comes up, I will try to express myself here instead.
Thank you again, Soul. Your input has been extremely validating and kind.
Kindly,
Patience
That was a bit difficult to read... If you have to leave the Sharing Circle, then do what is best for you. I've never seen bullying there but then, I don't go that often. Doubtless there's plenty of stuff going on that I miss.
Other good thoughts have already been posted...no need to rehash them. All I can add is if someone registers here under a new name just to come back & stir the pot, it is possible to ban that person's particular "Internet address"--maybe the node their ISP uses, or something--to make it much harder for the misfit to do what he wants to do in 7Cups. I don't know the specifics for this procedure, so you'd have to ask someone more tech-savvy how it's done. Maybe Glen should know about it.
As for the rest, a big part of the problem is what I call diseconomy of scale. A site like this one functions best with a small community on it. When it grows very large, as inevitably happens when a lot of people sign on, it becomes impossible for volunteers & other staff to directly keep track of everyone. Relating on a personal level becomes impossible because there's just too many people & because maintenance--keeping the whole thing running--increases in workload with each new arrival. It is not the new members' fault at all; it's just the nature of the whole enterprise. Once personal relationships become impractical, vols & staff must rely on rules & procedures administered by specific personnel among them, to keep the site & community running...in other words, bureaucracy. Bureaucracy is necessary--you can't have civilization without it--but, as we all know, bureaucracy itself has its own drawbacks & can often be insensible to input from anyone not within its own hierarchy, or from anyone not in a position of authority.
Well done. You’ve hit the nail on the head precisely! Thank you for the warm and validating input.
I actually ended up going to a “safety” discussion since it was a topic of interest, and since then ventured back to a hosted Sharing Circle where I had a good experience.
In some way, I feel more healed and stronger to confront someone if that were to be necessary, or just shut computer and walk away.
I appreciate everyone’s input here.
I agree it should be possible to figure out the origins of the rogue accounts but there seem to be several of them, so I am sure that’s a challenge.
Still seems sad to me that some people won’t just leave struggling people who are trying our best to work things out, to do our work.
I hope you have a nice day and thanks for posting!
Hi, Here's my update on myself and my current thoughts.
I wonder about the person who was bullied, but I want to allow them their space to heal.
Me, I'm ok. Of course, I was only a "bystander."
So, I have guilt about being not quick and fluid enough to get my Ninja Powers up fast enough to Do Something.
I do remember times I did Do Something:
1. Two boys were grabbing and pulling a backpack off of another student while I was walking, and I entered with full Mom Voice, "Hey, what do you think you're doing?" and helped the child whose backpack was scattered in the middle of the street while the Cowardly Bullies scattered.
2. Much earlier, when I was a child, but I looked like a twin to my brother, who was older, but he had some sort of digestive thing going on so he was skinnier than I, and somebody tried to bully him. The first time it happened, I went to my mum, and she said, "What do you want to do?" I had karate training from my dad, who always wanted his daughter to be someone who could Stand Up For Herself, so I said to my mum, "I want to punch him." She (my mum) gave me a hug.
The next time the Bully followed me and my brother home, and I turned and punched him, and to my surprise, he fell to the ground. He got some scrapes as well. We ran home. From then on, he didn't bully my brother and he didn't bully any of us.
So, from that I learned this lesson: If a person is using Force, they will only understand Force.
Maybe that's not such a great lesson to take into Adulthood, where I'm supposed to be Cool and Mature.
I'm still Growing. What can I say?
Love and Courage,
Patience
That's nice of u to do that you helped 2 people and many more from being bullied, I had to do the same when I was picked on, like you said they use force so they want it and you have to show the bullies enough is enough sometimes so I'm with u there 100%, we may not be able to save everyone from bullying but we can stand up if we see it
@PatienceImpatiens No, it's the right lesson. Unfortunately, it may be the only lesson when it comes to certain situations.
(CW: violence discussed)
Bullies do what they do because they want to, & because they enjoy it. Whatever other "reasons" they may have or say they have are subordinate to the foregoing. Some kids outgrow it eventually while others are budding psychopaths, permanently antisocial...for the latter creatures, being a bully is early training for a life of manipulation, sadism & the pursuit of power & control. In the worst cases, bullying is a stepping-stone to a life of violent crime or organized mayhem, such as tribal militias & terrorist groups in less-developed countries. The only way to stop them from hurting you or people you care about is to hurt them enough that they choose to retreat & look for easier prey elsewhere.
The thing about bullies--& about social predators of all kinds, including muggers, r*pists, etc.--is that you cannot expect them to be reasonable. In order for you to convince them to stop, first they must listen to whatever you have to say. By the time someone has decided to lock you inside your school locker/knock you to the ground & pull off your pants/carjack you/etc., (s)he has already decided not to listen. No matter how persuasive you may be, it means nothing if the other person is unwilling to listen or be reasonable. In such a situation, the only option left is force. Ideally, your force should be sudden, vicious, decisive, & completely disruptive to the bully's plan &/or intentions. You must win, no matter the cost.
Bullying and Forgiveness.
Yesterday, I struggled with writing my thoughts about bullying and forgiveness. I thought I would post on a thread that was entitled something like just that: Forgiving Bullying, or something similar to that. But then, I decided I would post here so as not to “pollute” the other thread with my thoughts that have nothing to do with forgiveness and everything to do with remembering that people don’t always have the best intentions when they pretend to “be like you.”
This all comes from the one episode of bullying that started this thread, in which, in a vain attempt to defuse some bullying that was going on in a Sharing Circle, I shared a little story about a boy.
I will share the story here.
It’s a real story, not fiction.
It was relayed to me by our son, who I consider to be an honest historian.
The boy is someone I knew well, because back in the day, I was the Director of a Child Development Center, so he was one of the 150 or so students who graced the place. In those days, parents would sometimes bring “offerings” to the Director. I got so many presents. It was slightly over the top at times. But nice. This family had the two kids. The dad was a Hunter. He hunted deer. He brought me a nice slab of frozen venison wrapped in white paper as an offering, a gift. At that time, our family ate meat. We no longer eat meat, but that’s another long story. So, of course, I accepted gratefully, and made up a fine venison stew, with potatoes, celery, onions and all the spices. It was so delicious. Thinking of this stew still brings back memories of its tastiness. I’m sure venison that is shot from the forest is healthier than meat you buy in the shop, but that’s beside the point.
Anyway, this family had a son. I know his name, but I want to protect his confidentiality of course, so I’ll name him Bobby. Bobby was a baby in our child care center, and grew up advancing through the classes until he was kindergarten age and further. Bobby was well loved. Bobby had a lisp. At the child care center where I was a Director, we had raised most of these children from close to birth, so there was no doubt about our community’s love for Bobby. Many had challenges that far surpassed Bobby’s lisp. I could list some of them here but suffice it to say for the sake of the story and because I don’t want to lose you completely here, Bobby was well loved in our child development center, but when he got to the public school, it was another story.
Some of the other boys teased him mercilessly. I would call it Bullying. They excluded him from games, tried to make him feel embarrassed in public circumstances and tussled with him in a way that was more extreme than with others. This is all from our son’s report. Our son witnessed all of this.
Time went on. Kindergarten was gone. The boys grew, Bobby grew, the Bullying continued.
Let me set the scene for what happened next.
The boys were in 5th grade or so, so about ages of 10 or 11. They were fond of playing football on their Recess, and one of their teachers kindly supervised them and played with them day after day at the Recess time. The other boys’ bullying of Bobby had never really ceased. It had its ebbs and flows. Everyone saw it. I don’t think anyone thought anything of the toll it took on Bobby, except our son, who was sensitive in this way, having experienced his own share of bullying and the fighting off of it subsequently. So, you might say, our son was “attuned” to the bullying that was happening of his friend.
The boys were playing football with their teacher there, and as usual, there was a bit of that joshing around, joking, that soon turned into taunting of Bobby. You would think the teacher in these cases would have done something, but in this case, it is what he did not do, that to me seemed more powerful.
Bobby turned to the boy who was taunting him and punched the boy right in the face.
The Teacher was right there.
Usually, a Teacher in this case will punish the aggressive child who punched.
In this case, the Teacher turned to the boy and said, “That’s what you get.” And the bullying stopped. All the boys saw it. All the boys remembered.
And, that, Friends, is Karma.
Keep on doing what you’re doing, sure, but you will get Justice.
The Universe’s Wheels at times Turn Very Slowly.
But it will happen.
And, that, my friends, is my story I shared in the Sharing Circle. The Bully said, “Oh, nice made-up fiction story.” But that story was not fiction.
But I thought and thought.
How can I forgive the Bully? I challenged myself to Forgive.
The expression leaped to my mind.
“The Tree Remembers; the Ax forgets.” I decided to research that expression further. I also came to the refreshing realization that I’m not ready to “forgive bullying” just yet.
My research uncovered that this expression is purportedly from the Shoshone Tribe in Africa. But in digging further, I found more roots to this relationship between Axes and Woods.
From Turkish lore, there is a fable about the ax that ventures into the dwindling forest, convinces the trees that he is “one of them” because his handle is made of wood, and then he proceeds to chop down all the trees.
I recalled how the Bully in the Sharing Circle said they had a lisp as well. They were trying to be like the victim of my story.
Then, there’s an even more interesting little poem, entitled simply, “Politics,” to give the reader the clue that there is more than meets the eye in the poem. The poem is very simple:
“The woodcutter’s axe went to the forest and begged the tree for wood for its handle. The tree gave it.”
This little poem, in the context of the time, is a parable of the Imperial stripping of Indian resources.
This poem is by Rabindranath Tagore, including in a Bengali collection, “Kanika” (1899).
This diving into this rabbit hole of basically prevented me from feeling: 1. Any forgiveness, and 2. Effectively derailed me from writing.
Till later, Friends.
I hope you have a nice day! Stand up to the Bullies in their High Chairs!
Love, Patience
@PatienceImpatiens It can be hard to let certain things go. Alot of people say to forgive and forget but it's not that easy. My name isn't Jesus nor do I have Alzheimer's. Especially when it's intentional. I struggle with forgiveness myself and something have left a deep enough mark that I can't forget. I know forgiveness is supposed to be more for us than the other person. Maybe forgiveness looks differently for everyone?
It's hard to stand up for yourself here. They expect you to ignore it or flag or mute or a dozen other different things but to me that makes it lopsided. The victim gets bullied and is expected to stand down. So basically other than getting their post removed and a warning from someone other than the victim nothing happens to the bully. Of course standing up for yourself isn't easy either. I'm not sure where I was going with this lol
I have to admit I'm proud of Bobby for standing up to the bully and it's great that it stopped the bullying
Because I never let an issue go, here I am!
@PatienceImpatiens Advocating for human rights in a support room is, well, exhausting, and we all need to do our part in making the room a safe place. It should not be your sole responsibility.
@PatienceImpatiens I have oftn wondered why some counselor groups behave like this. My hypothesis is that, beneath all the 'caring and sharing' there are unconscious, or pre-conscious, elements of competition. Counselors commonly do not get paid for their services and their position in the world of employment is precarious. Where competition for clients is high, there will be rivalry for a place in the world. This can happen in free sites like Cups as much as the 'ultra-professional' groups outside. I often get *** off with the implicit expertism displayed by PhD people and prefer not to associate with them. Ring any bells? - John
@gahnsuksah
Hi, John,
Yes, the book I'm reading right now about , "“THE THEORY AND PRACTICE OF GROUP PSYCHOTHERAPY," 6th edition by Irvin D. Yalom and Molyn Lescz, talks about a cohesive group as being the perfect place to tackle these feelings of suppressed hostility and competition. Indeed, when it's a group, all of professionals, then that competition and hostility will be present, though very cleverly disguised, as the professionals possibly have developed better "masks" of indifference, and sly tactics in our repertoires.
So, it's a common enough "group dynamic."
What I have noticed in my lay observations, is that groups seem to function better when there are "guidelines" that everyone agrees to, and that there is some trust and cohesion built up over time. I mean, some of the people truly appreciate each other, and like each other as people first. Also, and this was my main point, that someone take on a role as a "facilitator," to keep things moving, to notice and point out unhelpful and helpful undercurrents, to monitor the atmosphere of the group.
This can all be derailed of course, when a renegade jumps in who's outwardly hostile or deriding. Harder to spot in the professional settings you've remarked upon, since people may be better "masters of disguise."
Thanks for commenting.
Love and Courage,
Patience