Blocking / Reporting Vs Letting it go
Hello Everyone
(@Fristo thank you for your help in creating this post)
I feel, somehow blocking & reporting option is used very generously by lot of members as well as listeners.
I am of the opinion that we can use it very conservatively only when there is absolutely no other option but to block or report. I will try to share my perspective & will like to hear from you all what you think on this
· I feel getting blocked or receiving coaching emails (standard template emails, where listeners don’t even get to know what exactly written against them) are very discouraging for all listeners. Specially for volunteer only place, when someone is devoting their time with the intention of helping someone, getting blocked or receiving standard coaching emails can work negatively & I know lot of listeners being moved out of 7cups because of this.
· Some of the reasons why member choose to report or write negative reviews, they gave advice, they took time to reply, they didn’t show empathy, I felt like talking to bot, they were asking too many questions, they asked my age or sex etc. I feel for such reason, moving out of the chat by expressing your concern directly & politely with listener can help listeners to understand your concern better & they will definitely consider working on that. Also, we cannot connect well with all listeners, but that listener can be a good connection for lot of other members. I feel negative reviews or reporting can be used conservatively for only some unavoidable instances like abuse, or stalking etc. I feel if we all can follow that it will significantly increase the happiness index of our 7cup community.
· Some of the reasons for which listeners choose reporting option like member was rude (I think we can definitely try to calm them down; I know it’s not justified but we can consider giving them chances of improvement), they asked me personal information or they shared their personal information. I feel we can try our best not to report someone till the time it’s absolutely necessary like when we have tried explaining them, we have tried ending chat option. I feel some times just discouraging someone by not answering them can work better than reporting them, as reporting is taken very offensively & then someone can try to take revenge (though it’s not justified).
· I feel, at times there is sort of competition between listener & member about who clicks block option first, because they fear that if they don’t do it other person will do & they will get in trouble. So, I feel both listeners & members can be very conservative in choosing blocking & reporting as option & we can just let it go. If at all we are unhappy about something, we can directly let the other person know in the chat & we can end the chat or stop replying that itself will give a strong message to the other person.
I know even guidelines say we should choose blocking or reporting as
last resort but I feel we all can take it more seriously & it will
definitely increase happiness index of our community.
@prashpal84 This is a great article and highlights some issues with this site that need addressing.
For many people this is the only form of help they can get as professional help may be out of their price range and may not feel comfortable opening up.
In addition to that getting an account unblocked having been blocked is a mission in of itself.
@guitarist175
Yes I understand, getting back account is really difficult task. And well pointed out that for many it is the only available option to seek help & hence we can be little more careful when blocking anyone.
@guitarist175 I agree with you, except that the "only form of help" part is not really true.
An article published by the American Psychological Association last year quotes an estimate of 10,000 to 20,000 mental health apps. And that's not including websites for information and advice, confidential chat with both human listeners and bots, group chats, personal diaries and forums. Listeners, too, can easily volunteer in other places—international, national and local.
In addition, some of the members who are blocked simply make new accounts. So I think people who are blocked here have many options, and if they need help there are many other places they can seek it.
Charlie
@RarelyCharlie Regardless of whether there is other support available, blocking unnecessarily on an individuals primary form of support isn't going to do them any favours, it could make some people feel like they shouldn't be asking for help and isolate themselves which could lead to a worsening of their condition.
@RarelyCharlie Also I stated "for many people" this is the only form of help they can get, as in it may be the only form of help they are aware of. I'm not suggesting that this is the only website of its kind, there are clearly alternatives, whether people are aware of them or not is another matter.
@prashpal84 @fristo
I think as a community, it is vital to have these kinds of discussions where everyone can share their thoughts and brainstorm possible ways to support ourselves and others in the said situations.
Everyone shared some insightful views and It is truly refreshing to hear all about it.
Thanks for creating this post and inviting discussion, Prash and Fristo. ❤
I definitely see where yall coming from with the whole "letting go" and increasing happiness index of the community points and I agree to some extent, in the considerable cases, where we feel comfortable enough (within the 7 cups guidelines ofcourse). Beyond that, I try not to fit everything under a single shelf and treat chats on a 1-on-1 basis, meaning, we (listeners) are told as a general guideline to give a couple of warnings, ending the chat, and using blocking as the absolute last resort ~ which I feel comes from the mere acknowledgement of feelings and a distressed state of members, giving them chances to redeem themselves and correct their behaviour so as to foster a supportive chat and receive the support they need and deserve. Which is ofcourse, great. But then other times, some members can get really abusive and threatening and those are times when you wouldn't want to take at time of verbal reminders and warnings, the times when you'd instantly hit block after strike 1 because the behaviour is such ~ this again I feel is okay, listeners spare so much time and energy to be here and support people, the very least they deserve, is some basic respect and acknowledgement of their humanity. Blocking blocking never fun but darn the times it is definitely a needed resort to ensure our own safety and sanity.
To sum, I'd say, I agree with the idea of not taking things too personally, acknowledging people's distressed state of emotions and giving them chances to redeem and seek the support they need and deserve, letting go in many cases is fine *but* there's a fine line when someone takes our kindness to be our weakness, that is something I am highly against of and will never allow anyone disrespecting such, in these times, one would need to say something, we cannot and shouldn't let instances like these go ~ a simple phrase here makes sense: what you don't question and speak against of, you encourage.
It's important we make use of the resources and tools available to us mindfully and with good reasoning. An opposite of such is not good for anyone at all.
Sharing some useful resources on the same:
And I definitely hear yall on the coaching e mails, they aren't very descriptive and lack clarity from whatever I've heard, makes sense how an unclear feedback would in turn discourage anyone from actually wanting to learn/ improve something (times when the constructive feedback is genuine and not a false report by a member for reasons best known to them). I definitely jumped at this notification recently about the survey for improving coaching mails and sharing the form here as well incase anyone wants to share their feedback/ suggestions: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScNK47qSd7zQ8uwWogW1uq1CgEqKnMrlNaGjgWvc4eJyHdphQ/viewform
Phewww xD thanks for letting me share my thoughts too yall. It's amazing how dedicated everyone is to foster a supportive and compassionate space here and yayy we all definitely can do it in our own ways, every effort counts significantly. ❤
@Sunisshiningandsoareyou
Thanks for sharing your perspective, I completely agree that in certain cases blocking is absolutely important. Thanks for sharing coaching email feedback link here, its important that we share our opinion on such feedbacks taken from 7cups team.
Though blocking is to be considered as the last resort by listeners (as per guidelines) but I feel listeners getting blocked for no reason by members lot of times as there is no such similar guideline which apply to member side. So with this link, I thought that both members & listeners should come together to understand both side of the story.
@prashpal84
I am still having a tough time with this
Though blocking is to be considered as the last resort by listeners (as per guidelines) but I feel listeners getting blocked for no reason by members lot of times as there is no such similar guideline which apply to member side.
I think it's pretty rare members would block without a reason (ditto for listeners) - I just think that if listeners do it, it should be due to a member being at fault. It shouldn't be the same case for members blocking.
Here's an example -
A member wants a listener of a particular gender only but they also want to use the general request option. They find out their listener is not the gender they were seeking in a listener (or the listener doesn't want to tell them). Is the listener at fault? No. But the member has no desire for that listener to pick their chat up again.
Do I think that there could be other options that may work better for the member, yes. I can also recognize though that someone is in distress and feels vulnerable and is looking for a way to feel safe, so I can support the member doing this.
Now reverse that
A listener only wants to take chats with people of a certain gender, they pick up a chat from the general request queue and ask the member their gender. The member isn't the gender the listener was hoping the member would be (or maybe the member refuses to tell them). The listener blocks the member. The member who waited 20 minutes to connect with that listener now has to start over again, at the end of the queue.
This is something I do not support from a listener. If a listener is really uncomfortable supporting people of both genders, they can stick to personal chats only, stating this information on their profile and kindly responding to a member who connects with them if that criteria isn't met. If when their status is set to online they respond promptly they member can seek another listener without being set back a significant amount of time. The listener can also check profiles of members before picking up an general requests, although they are then relying on members having this information on their profile when it isn't a standard part of the profile.
These differences can be compared to other service providers, particularly where the person getting the service is in a vulnerable position. For example, seeing a general doctor. At times to get care the patient needs to be naked, the doctor does not. A patient can pick and choose their doctor, and if they felt uncomfortable (maybe they thought Ashley was a female, but the doctor is male) it wouldn't be unethical to switch to another doctor due to the doctor's gender. A doctor on the other hand, refusing to see a patient simply because of their gender isn't ethical (and some places isn't legal).
This reasoning can apply to many many reasons why a block may occur where the person being blocked didn't do anything wrong.
The problem that I see when members are blocking is that listeners are getting upset. To me that's more of a training problem - not a problem with the members.
@AffyAvo
I agree to you to an extent, but I still feel for less triggering reasons like gender or age not as per expectations or any such reason where listener has not done anything triggering by purpose, not responding, ending the chat or directly telling the listener in the chat can be better options than blocking. No one will ever like to get blocked out of no where in chats. But if listener is repeatedly sending messages even after ending chat or after not replying to few messages, blocking can be considered as option.
For example when we go to therapist or doctor or seek any professional service we don't choose the option of blocking them, but we can decide about not seeking their services for any reasons at any time.
@prashpal84 I picked that as an example as it's easy to explain. Like I said though, there can be a huge range of reasons. Maybe a phrase used reminds the member of someone and it scares them.
If a member came to me and said I only want a female listener, would my first recommendation be they send out a GR and then block any listener who will not confirm they are female? No. If a member explained though that they are having trouble finding listeners who are available using the browse listeners feature, want a listener ASAP and they get scared if it's not a female listener and feel safest by blocking the listener plus feeling relieved knowing that particular listener cannot pick up their GR again, I am all for the member doing that. If this specific scenario was a common problem I would then also give the suggestion to 7 Cups that we can put in requested gender with GRs, similar to language and topic.
The big question to me is why would listeners see that as a problem? Does it really matter if a member says oh, you're not the right listener for me vs. ends the chat via a block?
I also do thing there's a separate issue going on. I think there are listeners who think they are doing a good job, and to be totally honest they are not.
There are a number of listeners who in their profile state something like "I am a good listener" - I do see a high correlation with that statement and the below behaviours.
The number of times I have heard "Don't think like that" or "Don't say that" here is way too frequent. I shouldn't have to explain why that is problematic when expecting someone to be providing me an active listening session. It's also not rare where a listener who has done this connects with me a month later and does that same thing.
Less extreme, but still a problem is a listener who says ok frequently when I am describing problems. The situation doesn't feel 'ok' to me. I often will state it's not ok, please stop saying ok. They don't respect that. Again, not all that unusual to have that same listener connect with me again in the future.
How many of these listeners get blocked and then come on the site complaining they did nothing wrong? After all they state they are good (or great even) listeners.
Are these listeners outright harassing someone? No. But how does a member avoid going through that again if they still want to use the GR option?
@AffyAvo
I understand your concern, feeling triggered in a conversation can definitely be a reason for blocking. But at the same time the person who gets blocked, with just one message in a chat or without even saying anything, feels little confused & frustrated, I am saying this as this is one of the most common concern raised in listener support room. Maybe 7cups can work towards having an additional option other than blocking where listener or member can be little more informed when they get blocked but not reported.
@prashpal84 I think in general there should be better information about being blocked. I have sat there, waiting for a response for a while, go to type are you there? only to then see that I have been blocked. So 100% agree on just a bit more transparency. I don't know why we currently leave people sitting waiting until they write a message after the block (or be out of the chat and try to reopen it).
As for seeing a difference between you were blocked or you were blocked and reported? I don't have a huge issue with that. Some people may not feel as comfortable making a report knowing the other person will be informed, but they do have other options ie. support ticket, email, review.
Hello @prashpal84,
I think it's important to define the scope of this discussion so there will be no more confusion. Otherwise, this can be mistaken as an encouragement for not using the blocking or reporting option even when necessary. So first, let's agree on something. This is not to address the issue related to the safety of members or listeners in a conversation.
Both members and listeners are encouraged to block or report when the other person is inappropriate, abusive, threatening, or exhibits other behavior that makes a healthy conversation in a safe environment can no longer happen between the two. So when it comes to safety, there's no doubt that the blocking or reporting is a helpful act for the community to maintain a supportive and compassionate space here. And therefore, everyone should feel free to do that.
But I think that's not the premise behind this thread. Seeing from the sample of reasons given that prompted this thread, I think those reasons are more about unfulfilled expectations or a gap in personality. I, too, have had a disappointing experience here with a listener.
Something bothered me early in the conversation, but I tried not to be upset about it. But at some point in our conversation, he became more and more judgmental and stopped being supportive. Also, some of our conversations and his action were triggering for me because they brought back some unpleasant memories I had with someone.
It was so troubling for me that I stayed away from 7 Cups for a few days and even turned my phone off most of the days during that time because I felt so troubled. During those days, I, too, felt the impulse of making that listener bear the consequence of what our conversation caused me.
I was thinking of ending the chat, blocking, reporting, and giving a review based on what I felt at that time. I also had negative thoughts about his reason for being here. And under that circumstance, it was easy for me to justify my action should I did any of the actions I was thinking.
I could have told myself that I did it so no other members would experience what I felt. And it's true to an extent. But in the end, I refrained from doing so because I thought it would be unfair to him. Because I, too, know what it's like when someone is not being thoughtful of how their action affects me. There are many reasons why communication can go wrong between two people.
I felt disheartened by what happened. But when I calmed myself down and tried to be more relaxed, I also knew taking any of those actions might only transfer my distress to him. Well.. you know, hurt people tend to hurt people. But I'm not the type who can rejoice in other people's struggles. I most likely would feel even worse if I did that.
I appreciate what the listeners here are doing. And, of course, I know there are some people here whose behavior doesn't reflect the spirit of the 7 cups community, though I haven't encountered one in a private chat. I'm very careful when it comes to who I choose to be in a 1-on-1 conversation with.
But I know some bad apples exist anywhere, including this place. There can be some people who are preying on other people's vulnerability or treating others as emotional punching bags instead of letting their emotions out in a healthier way. But I also know that there are also many good people who genuinely try to seek support or be there for others. And playing our part in increasing the happiness index in our community will benefit all the people with genuine intentions.
So, I agree with you that blocking and reporting shouldn't be used so generously just because the options are there. When it comes to safety, there's no doubt that everyone should feel free to take the necessary measure and click the button. But other than that, I think it will be great if we all can be more mindful of how our actions might impact others and let them reflect on our behavior.
@Litepanda
Thanks for your reply. I completely agree with you that in certain circumstances blocking is absolutely necessary & may be the only option we can consider. And as rightly said by you we all can be little more mindful or thoughtful before choosing these options, we can always choose to stay away from people with who we are not able to connect well.
. . . . .
I just stumbled on this lovely thread and would like to share my perspectives. Before that, one big thank you to @prashpal84 for starting this lovely discussion and for all the wise individuals who are participating. I read a lot of perspectives above, and I'll try my best not to overlap.
Prashpal, I see where you are coming from, as a mentor, and as someone active in the TL, I have spoken to a lot of listeners and have some degree of involvement in the quality domain. It is very true that on both ends there is a lot of blocking at times. In my experience it has been more often to see a member blocking a listener, but that's my experience.
Listener side guidelines go like this- you are supposed to give 3 warnings before blocking. The only exception to this is a member threatening serious harm.
For members, it's a lot more lax. Mainly because the site is there to serve the members, not the other way round. We must keep that in mind. If I'm in a very bad mood, on my member account, and someone is replying in very short messages, I am tempted to ghost them. (confession hehe). But I am aware some members often block in this situation as well. We can blame them, but there's also an important thing to be kept in mind that the member has a "choice" not to talk to the listener, and if they don't want the listener to reach out to them, they can block. It's not recommended, yes. It's arguably not ethical too, but it's not illegal.
About negative reviews- the sole reason that system exists is so that a member can say that they had such and such bad experience. The scope of improvement is described and the listener can work on their skills.
Coaching emails need more work, for sure. But it's not the member's fault and the member is very very very welcome to give all the feedback they can. Coaching emails do need to be descriptive, and create a balance between explaining the listener what went wrong and maintaining member confidentiality. In my opinion, including a written (and not automatic) description of required area of improvement can help. For example, saying "member felt that listener was not trying to understand their feelings" or "member was minimising the struggles" would be more helpful than simply saying "please work on empathy." It will also help in improvement. For this, I'll tag @EvelyneRose
To listeners and members- I know getting blocked for no reason is hard. I have been there. But gentle reminder please try not to take it personally. It's not your fault. And if you fear being reported or are worried a member might say something in a block that can get you in trouble, especially after a difficult experience, there's something you can do.
You can take screenshots and email community@7cups.com explaining your side of what happened, and give proof.
The site leaders do try to check if there has been an actual violation and the degree before taking action against you. I hope that alleviates the fear a little bit.
I hope this discussion helps everyone be a little more careful when it comes to blocking.
Says one of those who blocked me for nothing
@prashpal84 I think we need to do a much better job of supporting and educating listeners so they do not take things like being blocked or having a conversation deleted personally.
Members do (and I think should) block or delete for a number of reasons. I do not see this as a problem.
What is a problem is how often listeners take this personally. The feeling of being hurt, disappointed, frustrated, etc. is totally valid. What we can do though is train better as to why members may do these things to make this place feel safer for them. I think if we normalize that behaviour and also explain to listeners reasons why it may be done. It appears that this lacks both in the training as well as the general culture on the listeners' side. I also suspect that some people do think blocked equates to being reported, which isn't always true and that can be communicated better as well.
As for the other direction - listeners blocking/deleting, the threshold should be higher. Considering the service model, having a low threshold for members blocking/deleting vs listeners having a high threshold for doing so makes a lot of sense to me. It's similar to why listeners are reviewed and rated and members are not - we are providing a service to them.
Reporting - that's a little bit different as someone should have done something wrong to be reported, so I do think that threshold difference between members and listeners could be narrowed, but still, ultimately members are the ones who are giving details about their personal lives, so need more protection.
@wonderfulMagic99
thanks for sharing your perspective.
I completely agree when it comes to deleting the conversation, I feel members some times feel secure when they delete the conversation. But I feel blocking for no listener specific reason, makes listener confused (specially new listeners when they get blocked multiple times they feel they are not suitable for this platform). Even in our real life, we dont generally block people, we either give them a reason or we just stop replying, only when some one starts spamming us or harassing us we choose block option. Similarly I feel blocking as word suggest, is little negative thing for anyone & no one I feel likes to get blocked.
When it comes to reporting or negative reviews, I feel, the way it is being treated by 7cups is a cause of concern, most of the times just by listening to one side of the story decisions are made or coaching mails are sent & that cause lot of discouragement & many leave this platform for this reason.
@prashpal84 that's an excellent post. Brilliantly highlights the plight of listeners and members here. Especially the last Para " I feel, at times there is sort of competition between listener & member about who clicks block option first, because they fear that if they don’t do it other person will do & they will get in trouble." is something that the community needs to do something about to deal with the issue of false / unnecessary reports.
@prashpal84
Thank you for this post. I agree with your perspective.
@prashpal84
I agree with you. Blocking and reporting people should be done very infrequently, due to the overall negative impact it can have on the 7 cups community. Unfortunately, I have experienced multiple people who chose to be inappropriate and continued to be so, even though I redirected them again and again. From this point on, I will politely and promptly end unproductive chats. I will always give people the benefit of the doubt, but if any chat continues to be inappropriate, it needs to be ended. These types of chats are taking time away from the people who are truly seeking someone to listen to them.
