Forum Guidelines Expanded: 5. Anonymity

Hi forum moderators! The forum ambassadors have started this series to provide clarification on the forum guidelines. We will be posting one of these (and tagging you) over the next 6 weeks (one a week) until we've gotten through all 10! Please feel free to ask questions and get clarification ^^

#forumlove

Global Forum Leaders: @AffyAvo @AiluraBlaze @Alex @Amphios @Anomalia @ASilentObserver @BeyondTheInvisible @bunnypants @CountryGirl1231 @Emily619 @emsworld @EvelyneRose @fluffyUnicorns84 @Hope @HopefulSprings @Ila @InspiringLee @InvaderStitch @ItsPreeti @JaydenIsHere @Jenna @Keanan @LadyLazarus1971 @LunaHecate @MelAllyouneedislove @MistyMagic @MonBon @PhoenixAsh @PoliteOcean @Power @RaCat @Rain45 @RideaRainbow @Rose @River @RumpleSteeleSkin @Sailorelix @SilentSerenityy @SouthernFlame @summertimeSamness @tazzie @TortueDesBois @windflowers @Zammn

Community Centered Moderation (CCM) Forum Leaders: @AffyAvo @Alex @AnnaKateMillerLCSW @Anomalia @ArwaS @ASilentObserver @BeyondTheInvisible @bunnypants @countrygirl1231 @DaveMcGrath @Emily619 @emsworld @Erato @fluffyUnicorns84 @Hope @HopefulSprings @InvaderStitch @InspiringLee @ItsPreeti @JaydenIsHere @Jenna @Kate @Keanan @KimsonTheSteveFundYPOC @ladylazarus1971 @Laura @Lilium17 @lovelyWhisper66 @LunaHecate @Mango3 @MelAllyouneedislove @MistyMagic @MonBon @PalmTreesNRainbows @PhoenixAsh @piercetheaiden @PoliteOcean @Power @RaCat @Rain45 @redmark @RideaRainbow @River @Rose @RumpleSteeleSkin @soulsings @SouthernFlame @summertimeSamness @tazzie @windflowers @YourFriendforever @Zammn

@HanbuneNihongene

Are you on the app or browser? For changing profile picture, you can click on your profile icon in app to change it, or change it in settings in browser here.

Request for username change here.

@MonBon by "in real life" im assuming that you mean anyplace we live our lives outside 7cups online or offline 7cups can regulate behavior within 7cups but it sounds like this is trying to regulate personal relationships of people who meet outside of 7cups that they can no longer associate with eachother or one of them has to stop using 7cups to continue being friends off 7cups where you first met . if you meet someone first anywhere outside 7cups that is that listeners personal life outside 7cups on other social media of their choosing directing people to 7 cups or to their own profile to message them they are not directing people they meet on 7cups offsite but a listeners relationships with people off site shouldnt be controlled by 7cups at all

@jennysunrise8 - Can you explain more about what language feels like it's trying to regulate listener's personal lives? The intent of this is to clarify exactly that - your personal life is your personal life, but if you do know someone offline and you are both on 7 Cups, you shouldn't be discussing your offline relationship on 7 Cups with other users.

E.g., if MonBon and I were best friends in our offline life (well, I would be super lucky!), it wouldn't be appropriate to in the forums post "Hey MonBon - it was SOO fun hanging out with you this weekend at the park! Can't wait to see you again!" because this brings our (in this example totally okay) offsite contact onsite.

@Anomalia thats understandable not discussing with other people on 7cups that you have a relationship with someone here and also somewhere off site just keep it to yourself that makes sense i thought it was restricting off site relationships or off site activity i guess i just misunderstood sorry

@jennysunrise8 - No problem! Glad that I could help clarify, and if there is a particular wording that you think is unclear, let me know since I'm sure you're not the only one who might read it that way :)

The word "before" should not be there.

Real example: I met a guy at a conference and we got talking. It turned out he follows my blog. He had clicked the referral link there and joined 7 Cups. So we met in real life after both joining 7 Cups (but we didn't use 7 Cups to arrange the meeting).

I agree that "permitted to continue speaking in real life" makes it sound like 7 Cups is some kind of cult that regulates our entire lives. That half of the sentence needs to be reworded.

@jennysunrise8

@RarelyCharlie

Before is not likely to be removed, but I will of course bring it up along with the other feedback when I get a chance to meet with the CMs again.

Re: "permitted"

What phrasing do you recommend? Every synonym I come up with appears to have the same meaning - allowed, authorized, permitted, tolerated, etc. In reality the idea is that 7 cups doesn't disallow these relationships to continue, but not not allowing something sounds even more restricting than just allowing in my opinion.

Well, perhaps the CMs will advise me what I should have done at the conference when I discovered he had used my referral link and joined 7 Cups. I thought that was the purpose of referral links. Should I have run away at that point?

I cannot recommend any phrasing at all. The reality is that 7 Cups has no say in offsite relationships. It should not pretend to have.

@MonBon

@RarelyCharlie

Unfortunately the rules themselves are not really up for debate. They are what the admin team has decided are the terms of service. You agree not to have offsite contact with individuals from 7 cups when you sign up. I can, however, continue rephrasing to bring clarity and discuss with the CMs if adjustments need to be made.

Re: the conference, I have a suspicion, but would have to talk to the CMs to confirm.

@MonBon instead of " permitted " could use the words " can continue if they want " ... any offline relationship that originated off 7cups the word permitted means that its something that 7cups has a right to regulate and requires their permission can continue if they want or choose to sounds a lot better than permitted to

@jennysunrise8 @RarelyCharlie - language updated - please let me know if this is clearer.

@Anomalia thats perfect thanks for clarifying clarifications now i totally support this a very reasonable guideline now

The first part is reasonable, except that it should not be restricted to real life.

It is completely unreasonable to say "having offsite contact with someone you met through 7 Cups is not permitted." In places like schools, colleges and workplaces, and also on social media this must happen all the time. Sometimes you don't know that the person you've just met is someone you previously met on 7 Cups. Sometimes you do know.

Do you really expect anyone to say, "I'm sorry I can't speak to you because I believe we met through 7 Cups two years ago"? It would turn 7 Cups into some kind of weird cult if we all behaved that way.

To approach this constructively, it would be helpful to understand what kind of likely scenario (not just an imaginary fear) that part of the rule is intended to prevent.

@Anomalia

@RarelyCharlie i think if you met someone offsite that you recognize on 7cups (or maybe they reveal that they are on 7cups site and username or whatever to you) if it wasnt an arranged meetup and completely unintentional i think it would automatically then just become a case of knowing someone offsite that you also know on 7cups and rules apply same in that situation as anyone else you know offsite and onsite do not reveal to anyone on 7cups that you know that person off site keep it secret from everyone maybe something in clarifications that says something like ... " if you accidentally and unintentially come into contact with someone you recognize on 7cups keep this offsite relationship private and confidential within the 7cups community just as you would with anyone you know offsite "

I don't think that works, for two reasons. First, the meeting can be intentional and I don't think that changes things. For example, I intentionally go somewhere to meet this interesting new person, who turns out to be someone I already know on 7 Cups.

Second, a rule based on intention can't easily be enforced. In law the concept is known as mens rea, and proving intention often causes great difficulty in court.

Really, I don't think the wording is the essential difficulty here. I think the essential difficulty is a desire to control our offsite lives in order to seek safety from some imaginary fear. But I could be wrong about this. I will change my mind if someone can describe a likely scenario that this part of the rule is intended to prevent.

@jennysunrise8

@RarelyCharlie

As I said before, the rules themselves are not up for debate in this forum - we are using these threads to clarify what will and will not be moderated in the forums. If you have further questions about why the rule is in place, they are best directed to the CMs directly, but as long as they are a part of the terms of service, they are something that each user agree to follow in signing up regardless of whether they personally agree with it or not.

Oh yes, I fully understand that. I wasn't asking a question.

@MonBon

@RarelyCharlie well if they dont add it to clarifications any new friends you meet in the future anywhere if you recognize eachother as both being on 7cups you can just joke with them about how paranoid 7cups can be about offsite contact and pinkie swear with them not to breath a word of it to anyone on 7cups that would be the most prudent thing to do but its a good point because as 7cups becomes more and more popular (its even in school textbooks now) with millions of people and more joining every day and more people switching over to selfies on 7cups for their profile pic which i think is a good idea obviously i have my pic i dont think theres any problem with that i think its adds a personal touch and everyone should do it and i think everyone will eventually (but it should always be a pic specifically for 7cups only that you dont use anywhere else online an original pic of yourself that cannot be found anywhere else and i actually think that should be brought up here ive watched every episode of catfish and i know full well what google image search is and what personal information can be learned and im always very careful but not everyone knows or considers that so i really believe that all pictures should be 7cups specific mine is i dont use this anywhere else online) but recognizing people who you know on 7cups will become more likely as it becomes more popular i really expect 7cups to become a household name i want it to as much as i complain its definately constructive criticism i believe in it and want it to go in the right direction

@Anomalia just one other thing you can put under clarifications it says links are not allowed to pages that contain a "private messaging system" it would be a good idea to exclude sites where a person can message emergency services suicide.org has a private messaging system and many other websites that would exclude giving links to most websites that the person giving the link isnt even involved with

or just add at the top say no links to pages with a private messaging system that you yourself are involved in or something along those lines since that is the concern messaging/meeting someone offsite but there are many websites that have a private messaging system in fact all do if you consider the ability to email support on the site private messaging and many helpful websites have popup chat assistance for visitors

I missed that bit. It implies a public messaging system is OK, so a blog with comments is OK, and YouTube is OK, etc.

When I follow a link from 7 Cups to YouTube, it says there "Commenting publicly as RarelyCharlie". As it happens I have never actually left a comment, but...

@jennysunrise8

@RarelyCharlie right it would be better just to say at the top " cannot give links to any sites with a private or public messaging system that you are involved with " just add a few words to that part at the top

@RarelyCharlie also its unclear why the sentence " The Social Soldiers or 7cups blog are specific teams with very tight restrictions on offsite interactions " why this is in "clarifications" if this is just about not revealing offsite relationships with someone on 7cups to others on 7cups which i understand why thats not a good thing to do but give examples of that under clarifications not talk about groups that have tight restrictions on offsite contact under clarifications or about using a personal link to 7cups main page why thats mentioned in clarifications doesnt belong either has nothing to do with not revealing the offsite contact we have with other 7cups members/listeners

@jennysunrise8

The rule itself is regarding offsite contact, which includes offsite relationships. The biggest argument people try to use defending offsite contact is often Social Soldiers, which is why it is included as a clarification. Social Soldiers is allowed as they have very strict policies in place to prevent offsite and are overseen by CMs.

Edit: Additionally, some people have specifically asked what the boundary is on how much of 7 cups they are allowed to discuss offline, and if this counts as offsite contact. The clarifications we include are real questions from users.

Hope that helps!

@MonBon maybe before the words " the social soldiers " put in the words " this excludes posts and links to " and why , because they are very restrictive then it would be an example of something thats excluded

@jennysunrise8

I will definitely consider it, thank you for commenting!

@MonBon the wording on links could be changed too so that it doesnt only include referral links to the main page instead just simply say " links to 7cups given to people outside 7cups is acceptable " so that it doesnt imply that people can only share the referral link outside 7cups to people outside 7cups

@jennysunrise8 - Language updated

I keep my 7 Cups identity and my real identity strictly separate. No one who knows me outside 7 Cups knows my 7 Cups screen name. Almost no one who knows me inside 7 Cups knows my real name. I have to say "almost" because I have a Teen badge. 7 Cups has a record of my real identity.

So it was a shock to me when I submitted a support ticket recently, giving my name as RarelyCharlie, and someone (a human, apparently, not an automated system) replied by e-mail addressing me by my real name.

If 7 Cups wants to have anonymity, that's OK with me. Don't allow administrators to use our real names. Don't allow anyone to post photos of themselves in profiles. Don't transmit our e-mail addresses in every web page where other parties can find them.

If 7 Cups wants to have real identities, that's OK with me too. Verify the real identity of every account. Allow selfies in profiles. Publish our e-mail addresses openly instead of by stealth.

It's the flapping around in between that I'm finding impossible to understand.

@RarelyCharlie

That is valid feedback! I am shocked that your real name was used as well and i can definitely see where that makes it harder to respect what 7 cups is trying to do.

Updates made to clarify the language around offsite relationships existing separately from 7 Cups and Social Soldiers links

Fair enough with the anynomity but if you ever put up a photo of yourself then you're not anynomous in anyway, meanwhile revealing your name can still maintain your anynomity. There are (most likely) millions of other with the same name while noone looks exactly like you.

@Anomalia @Mel Can you give clarification on YouTube?

People seem to share videos from their own accounts often enough and comments aren't always disabled. There are also additional ways to connect on youtube other than the comments for a specific video.

Are there social soldiers youtube accounts and if so how does that play in?

@AffyAvo - Great question! Sharing your own youtube page (or video) would be considered offsite contact info as it links to your personal account. There are official channels/projects that use youtube, but those are either run through the official 7 Cups youtube page (by 7 Cups staff) or have approval from a CM (e.g., Danceathon, Blog, etc.) and are done using an anonymous 7 Cups specific account that cannot be tied back to an individual's personal information.

As for the comments, if someone is getting approval for a youtube post through an official 7 Cups channel, they should ask the CM/admin they are working with for approval.

Hope that helps!

@ Anomalia So, I think the last one I happened to notice was the one by @Fristo here: A new video How can I tell whether it has approval or not?

I tried to comment in various ways on YouTube but it wouldn't let me comment on the video, the channel or the account. Is there really some non-obvious way it can be used for offsite contact?

Charlie

@RarelyCharlie It looks like I can comment on that video although I didn't go as far as clicking comment to post after typing a message. I can do so under the discussion section too.

@AffyAvo My apologies, you're right. @Fristo seems to have left comments enabled.

When comments are disabled, YouTube displays a message: "Comments are disabled for this video."

Charlie

Hello : )

I did not think it would be a problem, to create a video on youtube and then sharing the link in one of the 7cups forums.

I am someone who needs to be explained to, before I can understand the risks and thereon make my choice. I have read it often on 7cups: "No offsite contact, else you will be banned" -something like this. But I have had a hard time understanding this no-question-asked rule.

I understand and take responsibility for the risks that can be there, if I allow a relative stranger to my personal space. But is it not a matter of individual discretion and choice? You may impose a rule, but a healthy community I believe is made up of a common understanding and not just based on a set of no-question-asked rules.

Hope you understand my view too. : )

@Fristo - I can absolutely understand your point of view, but as a part of joining a community, we agree to follow the rules of that community. In this case, one of the rules of the 7 Cups community is not sharing offsite contact, which includes personal youtube pages. That's not a rule that I made, so while I can explain the reasons behind it around safety, it's not something that is within my discretion to change. If you have concerns about a site rule, you can discuss them with one of our community managers, and if you would like to gain permission to use a 7 Cups youtube account to post things, you can ask that of them as well, but because of the rules in place, offsite contact links will continue to be removed when they are seen.

I feel it's a very thin line. And... about the mentioning your other account... is ok or not in 1-1s?