Intervention for People that are Trolling

@GlenM I'm so glad this was openly addressed, I have been trying to understand what's going on for some time. I must admit I thought it was me and that the hate was justified. I've been through a lot of therapy because of the trolling I encountered on this site. I think this needs to be addressed before anything else is done. Handle the trolling issues now please. I will be leaving here to go to a site that pays their listeners. I actually have a counseling degree but am not yet licensed. I do not see the logic in brushing off the trolling even one more day. Charge the members and pay the listeners. Do something to prevent the abuse. This is abuse and the members are so tired of it that they tell me about their experiences on this platform and expect that I will begin to abuse them like the other listeners. The abuse is creating a environment of distrust. I do not think that was the goal of this site nor do I believe the creators expected things to become so toxic. However this is where things are currently, and I recommend something be done to prevent further abuse of both members and listeners. Thank you for listening.

@GlenM thanks for this

@GlenM

Thank you so much for this, Glen. This is a must-read. I am sure we all have been there. Much needed thing!

@GlenM I couldn't agree more! Trolls indeed have a lot of unrealized talent and creativity which they unfortunately use to often ruin someone's day. Be it persistent social media trolls or 7 Cups trolls, one thing that I've always reminded myself of is, "Warn, Block, Delete and Move on". I've experienced that trolling not only ruins your mood, but it also makes you lose your focus, at times, when real help is needed. Therefore, its very important to remain positive whilst dealing with trolls.

"Keep your goals away from the trolls"

@AnastasiaSmith whilst dealing with trolls*

@AnastasiaSmith

fixed for you!

@GlenM

hmm.. what about the troll that keeps telling me to eat poison soup and go to the grave though? I can just imagine their response to growth path, probably tell me where to stick it and then falsy review me for lack of professionalism again, like they've done any time I have tried to reason with them, which would put listeners at risk of being banned from the fake reports as well. hmm I think I will stick to reporting and blocking, this is not a troll we can reason with.

@Paramediclady1967

This is a common situation that is woefully ignored by 7 Cups leadership. In my situation, the "troll" went to a specific community manager and insisted that I divulged personal information from a chat we'd had into a public chatroom. It was completely and entirely false, but that didn't stop the community team member from accusing me, nearly banning me from 7 Cups of Tea, and then proactively (behind the scenes) works hard to ensure that I never will attain any leadership roles such as Mentor or otherwise because of that incident.

Am I bitter? No. I had to prove my innocence, regardless of the obvious trolling behavior the user had done sitewide.

You know what the MOST interesting part of my story? The community manager never forgave me. The troll and I connected, talked it out, and he left me alone forever. He actually turned out to be exactly what @GlenM states in his initial post.

I look back on that incident and it forever changed the way that I work with 7 Cups of Tea.

@Sventek

Ugh I am so sorry. I learned to stop responding and I don't get coaching emails anymore.. this one keeps pming me to off myself, or threatening to do the job themselves. Like I can see how well me telling them to growth path, i'd be told where I can stick it and how they plan on chopping me up descriptively. :(

@Paramediclady1967 @GlenM

Here are the steps that I took, which worked in my situation:

1. I cut all my funding to 7 Cups of Tea. Why would I put my money where I'm not supported or appreciated?

2. I learned a very valuable lesson about taking screenshots, recording chat sessions that are problematic, being guilty until proven innocent, and how "justice" is handled on the other end of 7 Cups from the Community Team.

3. You can be marginalized for speaking up, speaking out, and seeing something -- thus saying something. I've been admonished by the Community Team for posts like this one, where I've called out the truth, found that my feedback is generally not appreciated unless I'm planting flowers for 7 Cups of Tea. Sorry, we cannot pretend that things are always a garden of roses when it's a pile of garbage.

4. My falsely reported, by the troll mind you, "crime" aka against site rules and as accused by the Community Team Member was FAR GREATER than the absolute terror of trolling that the troll had been inflicting on 7 Cups of Tea for months, he was well known by many on this website, he professed to me that he hated 7 Cups leadership and set himself out to inflict harm on Listeners and Members in any way possible because he disliked how the site was managed. While he was permitted his reign of terror on the site, I was in the process of getting banned entirely and had to prove to the Community Team member that I did not do what the troll had insisted I'd done. Keep in mind, the troll did not have any evidence of such, NOR did he engage with me on a personal chat where he confessed things to me for me to divulge in a chat room. It was all a bunch of malarkey, but the Community Team member bought it, all of it, took his word over mine. Given my background, my knowledge, my experience, and who I am offline from 7 Cups of Tea -- that is absolutely insulting and completely unacceptable.

5. I stopped taking general chats, which reduced my issues by 99%, no exaggeration. I specialized in 7 Cups of Tea to only accept certain types of requests and established a very hearty list of rules of engagement right on my profile. I also set up an appointment system, carefully checking site rules to make sure that it meets the terms of my agreement with 7 Cups of Tea as a Listener. All in all, these changes made a huge impact on my delivery. Sure, I was helping far less people, sadly, but I was also getting less negative reviews, less issues with chats, less ghosting, and less trolling. In fact, it has worked out so well, I'm able to balance out my limited time properly with current college coursework -- 7 Cups isn't overwhelming at any point for me now.

Let's be clear. When the troll won, because he did even if he doesn't know it, 7 Cups of Tea lost.

I changed the way I worked with 7 Cups of Tea by limiting my conversations, limiting my contributions, limiting my effort, limiting my leadership roles (some not by choice), limiting my financial contributions to the site, limiting being proactive, and above all? I've limited the number of people who could be helped, but never find me as a result of these changes. I'm especially cautious about answering ANY requests to chat from those that have not followed my process.

7 Cups of Tea lost a very valuable member of your team. My voice and contributions are lost, ways to make 7 Cups of Tea better, and more wholistic. Ironically, I'm not the only one to have either made these changes or left the site entirely due to these issues.

@Sventek

Constructive feedback is always appreciated! It's always nice to have concerns brought up that way. That being said, I find that usually it's a good idea to come to admin with a problem and a potential solution. I'm not saying you didn't, just sharing what I've found works well.

@Sventek

For me this troll is one person who harrasses us. I don't even have to take generals. They just message me and when I ever I say hey this is a problem it needs solved, I usually get "time for self care" I could self care every day, it's putting a bandaid on a broken limb. It's very frustrating. Thank you for speaking up! <3

@Sventek thank you for your honesty! I didn't think honesty was possible on this platform! I fully agree with your assessment of the situation, as well as your response to the abuse you endured. I realized after reaching out for help that this site is some kind of cult. The response was like you said, self-care and increasing my compassion. Which led me to continue to blame myself for chats that turned into abusing me as the listener. I am ethically bound to not abuse people (in my life outside of 7 cups) so I'm certainly not creating abusive chats. And that's what they are, abuse! I hope 7 cups will make the right choice to permanently prevent the abusers ability to freely access vulnerable people on this platform. 👍

@Mckenna1979

Hi McKenna! Thanks for your thoughts. I think the idea behind self care is to take time away if you've been hurt so you can heal. I don't think they are trying to say it'll all go away if you self care. As for compassion, the idea behind that is that sometimes there is deeper reasons for deviant behavior. As Glen says in his post, sometimes reaching out can help peel back those layers.

That being said, I can understand that it seems like they're giving unrealistic solutions because the solution desired is for the behavior to stop. The problem is the site only has so many tools at it's disposal, like any other site. They're always looking to improve safety, but Glen is trying to provide possible mitigation tools in the meantime.

I truly don't think they want anyone to be getting hurt or to be blaming themselves for abuse. Abuse is never on the person being abused. I think it's easy to say that there must be a quick solution, but perhaps in the IT world there is not. If you'd like to talk more, I'm always open to talk in PMs.

@Mckenna1979 @GlenM

We all experience situations in our lives where we hear bad news, or information that we simply do not want to acknowledge, hear, listen to because it puts many of us into a position of defense, especially if a particular website is your own baby (invention), which you're quite proud of and sure you should be, however, that does not negate the responsibility of hearing all sides to a situation nor dealing with the full repercussions of allowing that baby to grow larger into an adult then realizing that the adult is ... well, has issues. We simply cannot just ignore what happens with the adult, or service in this case, because it's inconvenient. Some might deem this as, non-constructive feedback.

I firmly believe that there are lessons to be learned through experience, especially the experience of others. In example, as a leader, I take constructive feedback from my employees seriously. I listen to their situations, their experiences, and gain insightful knowledge and while I aim to teach THEM something, I invariably always end up learning something about myself in the process. In a sense, they teach me how to become a better and stronger and more effective leader.

I don't simply take their stories of hardship on the job, and attempt to downplay it, brush it under the rug, whistle a tune and look the other way, nor do I pretend I didn't read or listen to their feedback because it's inconvenient for me to do so.

My employees have a long history of wanting to work for me, no matter what company I move onto. This is because I've demonstrated time and time again that their voice matters, they are valued, their careers matter to me, and they are more than just a name -- I think about how their effort may impact their home life and family too. They want to work for me, because I respect them, their effort to make the company great, and what they bring to the table. As a leader, they never expect me to have all the answers, but they do expect me to act responsibly and ensure that I work with them directly to find a solution.

Last analogy: If I ran say, a coffee shop. I'm not going to just openly ignore the fact that my customers tell me that they would strongly prefer that the coffee is stronger, with better water quality, or that it would be fantastic if I served muffins with the coffee. I may not be able to cater to their every whim, say offering a free muffin -- but I can locate a muffin and charge them at-cost to make them happy, thus keeping a strong customer base. I don't just ignore the feedback, even if it's inconvenient, or bad news, or negative. As a business owner, my responsibility is to ensure that my customers are happy, they are provided a quality product, customer service is key to keeping them coming back, and it's the little things that can add up and make a huge impact on my Yelp reviews -- which in turn, will gain MORE customers.

When I look at 7 Cups of Tea... well, I'll let each of you think about that.

@Sventek I'm thinking you meant @EvelyneRose and not me because I couldn't be more staunchly in favor of calling this what it is and stopping the minimization of what I am characterizing as harassment and abuse. I would not and do not suggest one simply suck it up or develop more compassion for a person who is causing them harm. I do not believe in looking the other way or supporting people who are displaying antisocial behavior. In my professional life I will occasionally work with mandated by the court, individuals and I can assure you, they do not deserve our undying devotion. We are not sacrificial lambs. It is right and best to not engage in their game. I have found keeping the chat focused on their ability to solve their own problems frustrating enough for them that they leave. The game isn't fun when you point out the obvious to them... Which is, they are the only person on earth that can truly change the course of their life. They of course will leave because, they will not take responsibility for that. So, yes, @glenM it's time to advocate for honesty.

@Mckenna1979 - What you are describing is emotional abuse and gaslighting. The mistreatment of your situation caused you to feel bad. You are strong. Imagine some listeners taking this to heart even deeper, for longer, until this troll-first system brainwashed the person into believing they deserved this kind of harrassment? That's how it happens in other communities and we must always be vigilant and speak up. Thank you for sharing this. It's so important. It made you feel bad. I am so sorry. You deserve better. You're wonderful.

I also think that most people troll for attention because they might be going through something that doesn't allow them to get enough attention such as family issues or living in an atmophere with no love. But on the other hand there is trolls that does it on purpose just for fun and wasting time then those need to terminated from here.

Thank you very much for this beautiful post

@GlenM

I love this concept. I have always chosen to "not take the bait". Many of them are what I refer to as "baiters and goaders".

I like your approach, this is giving us the power to show a little bit of "tough love" while also trying to stick in the chat and turn it all around. With kindness and patience, it does happen from time to time.

I have never thought I would be allowed to take the "tough love" approach as you have mentioned that we do. I for one like it but it is going to take us all practice to do it correctly. Hoping you can have the mentors ready to role play this with us as well as get CM ready to perhaps get an influx of negative reviews for us for doing so. I think we are all used to appeasing as best we can. We are all told to ask them not to do these things, and try to redirect them to a healthy chat topic. We are told we can give 3 warnings. If after 3 warnings and it hasn't helped, we are allowed to end the chat. We are told if they return for us, then we are allowed to block them.

But, 7 cups also tells us that we never have to stay in any chat that is making us feel uncomfortable.......so I like to see it as a wide berth and to do the best that we can. I try to say all of this in the LSR. Kind of use your best judgement kind of thing if it really is that bad!

I enjoy humor and I think sometimes we have to laugh at some of it and ourselves to keep going. So....I will share a funny story Once some questions were asked of me. Yes....we can see where all of this is going.....wanted to "sniff" certain items of clothing and asked what I was wearing. So much fun to say I was wearing a turtle neck and tube socks along with me having a certain laundry problem for garments. The person I was speaking to laughed and laughed, told me I was a true champ! I asked him if he really wanted to chat and said no not really, he was just here to bother others but I was the best "sport" about it that he had ever seen. I laughed with him and then said, it was real, it was fun, but it won't real fun, so I'm going to have to block you now and file a report.

Not something I have ever reccommended anyone else to do. Everyone.........this comes with a warning....please do not try this at home, lol. I got lucky and it worked out for me that day.

Forum mentors......please accept my apologies....I just edited this a couple of times for spelling errors......I know you'll be getting a flag report for me editing

@SparkyGizmo

Fun story haha. Glad it worked for you. Sounds a tad bit scary to me though. You're right

@Dandelion2405

Well, I guess there is more to the story as to why I did it. I decided to take the "hit" in an effort to keep my fellow listeners safe. There was something imbedded in the user name that might not exactly be reportable from a Safety Patrol standpoint, but I interpreted it correctly after all. It truly was most clear to me yet could be questionable to others.

I watched the grs as well and saw the member consistently come back over and over like a boomerang. With the thought of what was in that user name as well as the user coming back again and again, for some reason, what ever reason. Either someone was behaving poorly or maybe they just weren't finding the right listener for them.

I was in the right mindset to help that member if they were having trouble connecting to a listener that was willing to take any type of chat at all because I really can't say I have "triggers" unless it is clearly something that is against site rules and pretty far reaching. I was willing to do my best to try and give them the experience of me trying to be a quality listener and willing to spend a great deal of time with them in an effort to help.............or............get to the bottom of it all (pardon the pun). I do believe in listeners taking all chats as genuine.

Other listeners when faced with this might not know how to handle it, may have simply ended the chat as opposed to reporting it if a site rule was being broken. I chose to spend time with our user. Again, it was a choice. I would not recommend others doing this but I spent time and figured it out and reported. If nothing else, I have a funny story to tell here in this post. Welcome to the LOL Cartel and *hugs* to all.

Really appreciate this as i had a hard time not knowing how to cope with such trolls @GlenM.

i had fatigue n exhaustion just dealing with one incident. Had to stop for a few days.

@GlenM thank you for this post because the amount of trolls on this site has greatly increased during the months of isolation and being quarantined at home. I know the site is meant to be free and accessible for everyone that needs help but if moe screening of both listeners and members can be implemented that would great. It is so easy to create another account if the previous one is banned or deleted.

Members are able to create a fake profile and email so easily to get onto the site. Maybe you can look at ways of verifying the actual email. It takes seconds to join this site and continue to troll members and listeners.

You have created this awesome platform and it would a sad thing for the integrity of this platform to be degraded because of trolling.

Great post. So many trolls. They are bored, miserable,jealous and insecure with themselves and in their lives. Misery loves company and they must lead really sad lives. Some do it out of jealousy like this is middle school. Others are just attention seeking. I laugh and am amused at how pathetic they can be as I wouldn't want to give them the satisfaction of even having the slightest of thought that they could ever bother me. I'm secure and nothing they say would or could ever effect me. I love the life I live and live the life I love! However some people here do get triggered by the trolls which they've mentioned can lead them to self harm. I wish the best for those people. I am 100% unbothered.

@The1uluv2hate"

Great quote there, "I love the life I live and live the life I love!"

I love it!

Hope you're living the life you love greatly!

@GlenM Great post thanks for addressing this the way you have..

Lets hope that it works with many of them that do this non stpp ...it runs many listeners and members off because it happens from both members and listeners..

Thanks Glen

Tye

@GlenM

I've tried similar approaches in the past to no avail. I've blocked, reported, sent screen shots, requested the VPN be blocked, and all the other things I was advised to do in response to hate mail. I'm lucky my troll finally decided to leave me alone. I say that because I don't feel that Cups did enough to protect me as a listener from the vile filth spewed forth in my inbox. The things that were said to me, the threats that were made against me, the details of how the torture I should receive should be carried out, haunts me to this day and has forever changed the way I approach listening. Yes, I can block someone who is harassing me but that does noting to protect the next listener. Yes, I can ban someone but, with the endless number of free email services out there, they can literally be back in my pm's in less than half an hour. Isn't there a better way to handle repete offenders thank block, ban, and hope they get tired of you?

@PeaceLoveandPaws

100% agree with you on all of this <3 !!!!

@PeaceLoveandPaws exactly and sorry you've been subjected to that. hugs

@PeaceLoveandPaws sorry to hear that as a fellow listener I can appreciate that we have a hard job trying to help people and it can be frustrating as we don't get enough protection for the great work we do

@PeaceLoveandPaws

…they can literally be back in my pm's in less than half an hour. Isn't there a better way to handle repete offenders thank block, ban, and hope they get tired of you?

Yes, there is a better way. 7 Cups could very easily prevent newly-created member accounts from messaging any and every listener.

I once wrote a simple filter that protects a listener from unsolicited messages, without affecting legitimate chats. It required just five lines of code. I haven't published it, but if you, or any other listener, would like to try this partial solution, PM me.

Personally I don't use the filter I wrote, because I've had very little trouble from trolls at 7 Cups (so far ) and I'm happy to respond to unsolicited messages.

Charlie

This is great for listeners in 1-1 chats. There are many issues with trolling or outright harassment on the site though. We need to look at protecting members much more IMO. We are the ones who are in a much more vulnerable position as our role is to share what's going on in our personal lives.

I feel like issues aren't being dealt with appropriately.

The listener rating is still not accepting negative ratings last I checked, this has been an issue for about a year. Listeners block without good reason, without repercussions for their accounts. When it comes to issues outside of 1-1s it often takes repeated reports before something is done. Emails usd to be responded to, but I have found that's not happening lately.

@AffyAvo I'm not sure it's all that great for listeners, really, but I very much agree about protecting members.

Charlie

@AffyAvo

hi Affy! I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts if you want to PM me!

@GlenM I agree with a lot you say but circumventing bans and blocks by making numerous accounts to threaten members and listeners hasn't been resolved.

This MAY work with general "trolls" but not a lot.

Thank you for posting this and i hope it helps. I faced those trolls so many times and i agree with my fellow listeners that blocking is just not enough, like they come up with another account just to troll us again. I think there should be a proper way to deal with it So that we can save other listeners as well.

@GlenM Thank you so much . i really needed this . i m only a beginner but i already i have seen people testing from multiple accounts insisting on the same thing.

@GlenM thanks really helpfull I'm new and this will allow me to stop trolls faster when I see one.👌

Brilliant resource, it's good that it's finally been adressed and I feel so much happier having this as a resource.

@GlenM Thank you for posting this! I have talked about trolls many many times in the listener chat rooms and my comments have usually been dismissed with 'we do not call members trolls' 'we should always be supportive'. While I agree with being supportive some people are obviously trolls and like describing explicit issues to get a rise or a reaction out of us listeners. Please normalise the fact that it is OK TO CALL PEOPLE TROLLS IF THEY ARE, and it is also ok to block a member because of this.

Some issues brought up border on illegal topics yet we are told again (by fellow listeners might I add) that it is ok for people to express these feelings, even though the user was very clearly a troll, and talking about an EXTREMELY sensitive and might I add ILLEGAL topic and clearly making the user uncomfortable, yet the peer listeners said to just refer them to another listener.

Please state some sort of troll policy that peer listeners should be educated about!