The Lonely Narcisisst Club Band

I'm not unique or special. My problems are irrelevant for the sake of comparison to others.

I just need a place to unload. I'm tired of talking these things around in my head over and over again, knowing that there is no one in my life that I would trust sharing these feelings with. 

I am so far from the person that I wish I had become.

To have created so much disdain at every stage of my life has gotten me to where I am today and I cannot do nothing good for nobody with this anchor around my personality.

@Egoassist

Hi, welcome. 💜 Makes complete sense what you're saying that you're just looking for a place to express a lot of things and be heard (i.e. how things came to be what they are, feelings you're experiencing, situations where you feel like you lack empathy or alienate others) as well as maybe learning or exploring new things (e.g. ways of embodying empathy).

What usually happens when you alienate people? I noticed you mentioned wanting to help but offering solutions instead of empathy--am wondering if it's connected to that.

Also, feel free to PM me if you'd like to have a long-term, back-and-forth, 1-on-1 discussion about anything.

@IsayUncle

Hey, thanks for sharing. I'm having trouble figuring out how to respond, because I feel like there are a lot of moving parts and my head is spinning. 😊 At least from my perspective, the apology letter is an interesting and ambitious project but it adds *so much* complexity.

Just for my own benefit, am going to try to map out some of the different goals that are in play, as I understand them:

1) Clear self-understanding - I personally do a lot of journaling/writing, and sometimes my goal with that is just to understand what I'm thinking and get a clearer picture of what's happening, and I'm able to do that.

2) Receiving emotional support - When I add another person to the mix and share my thoughts/feelings with them, sometimes I still have the same goal as if I was journaling by myself (i.e. process and understand what's happening) and other people can often add new ideas/perspectives that lead to interesting insights that I might not have arrived at on my own. But there's also usually another goal added of, "I want this person to understand, care about what I'm feeling, and validate and empathize with what I'm saying so that I can feel some warmth, connection, etc.". And the success of this depends on who I'm sharing with, what I'm sharing, whether they're able to understand, what kinds of feelings they have toward me, their personality, etc.

3) Personal transformation - You've also pointed to a third idea (in your original post) of wanting to learn empathy, explore healthy versions of narcissism, transform the person that you are and how you relate to others into something different.

***

The apology letter feels complicated because... it adds other people's subjectivity to the mix. What are their goals, how will they react to the letter, what do they gain from it, do your goals match their goals, etc.

Something I'll share: an uncomfortable truth for me personally is that... sometimes I can think, feel, and write the most beautiful/amazing/interesting things... and when I share them with other people, they simply don't care. Or they don't feel it's relevant or don't get the same burst of excitement as I do. 🙏

If I'm hoping for a certain kind of reaction and I don't receive it, of course that hurts. (And if that happens over and over, then yeah that becomes a big problem. I wonder if you've had that kind of experience.)

So I've kind of involuntarily learned the habit of trying to consider the question of, "is this person likely to actually care about what I have to say and respond in the way that I want"? It's deeply self-centered (i.e. will they give me what I want if I share myself with them) but at the same time there are elements of selflessness in it (i.e. what is this person's agenda and what do they want, independent of what I want)?

It's not that I'm trying to be less self-centered or more objective/realistic or anything noble like that. It's just that in terms of my own selfish agenda, it hurts a lot more if I'm connecting with my vulnerability and hoping for something from other people that isn't going to happen. So it helps my well-being to try to understand other people's perspectives and anticipate how they might respond before I approach them with things that I care about that are sensitive.

That's sort of where I'm struggling with the letter, because the painful thing is, I wonder how other people will respond to it and whether it'll be what you're hoping for. I wonder if "here is a complete analysis of who I am and how I got to be the way that I am" will be something that they care about.

I'm in a real bad place right... Not harmful... just bad mojo.... Pathetic and selfish.

I do not want to share these feelings on my other threads. I didn't want my other threadster friends see this level of frailty but I messed up and posted using crossed usernames.

I'm weak and pathetic right now. My narcissistic personality he's left me with no calming, loving and understanding resource. Just because that's not uncommon doesn't mean it's easily bearable.

The past two years I've ignored my downside and push past obstacles thinking that I would get on top and then be able to handle these other things in a positive way. I didn't get high enough fast enough and have absolutely fallen to rock bottom. 

All my grandiose ideas, I got good acreage for tourism business, I've acquired licenses and certifications. I've got equipment big enough to shape the land and I did all that in two years. If I can stay responsible I have more work then I can do..... But I'm tired,, my world came crashing down around me when I had surgery on my arm and had been out of work for four weeks now. There were so many things I could have done in this time. But I got consumed with self pity.

Completing my narcissistic compilation wears heavily on my mind. I think I'm spiraling out of control but through experience, I know I can't let go of that shiny thing in that coconut. (the monkety trap)

@Egoassist

Hey, sure I can tag this account. Totally understand re: wanting to have one persona that's sort of more put together and another one where you can just be anything/everything else that isn't as put together. It's very common for people on this site to have a listener account and then a member account. My own member account is pretty embarrassing (but still very much me and I have a certain perverse pride in how free and chaotic I'm able to be on that account). Then meanwhile, my listener account is pristine and unimpeachable, beloved by all. 😅



I don't think anybody else who knows you through the other persona will be able to find this thread unless if they specifically know to go looking for it. You didn't create this thread through the other username, so it won't show up in that username's profile nor in any forum search results for that username.

***

Understand what you're saying about feeling like things when you were growing up... maybe didn't feel great, but there was this assumption that it was still normal. And then later you look on the internet and realize that maybe things weren't as normal as you thought.

That story with the wagon is pretty heartbreaking, especially with the idea of you being only 3 years old at the time and having to watch your siblings fight over who's forced to pull you and care for you because nobody wants to do it. 🙁 It seems like that left a lasting impression and has connected with this broader, lifelong(?) theme of feeling unwanted.

***

If I'm understanding, for the past couple years, there were some "downsides" to the way that you were approaching things, but you pushed through them and had a lot of success with the tourism business (e.g. getting acreage, licenses/certifications, equipment). But then recently you've been unable to work for about a month due to having arm surgery. And that time being away from the business and feeling like things are crashing has triggered some reflection.

1) Is it like there's been a realization that the business felt sort of like a shiny object or something grandiose, but deep down there are some other needs/wants that aren't being satisfied?

2) Is the arm surgery such that your arm will recover at some point and you'd be able to resume working if you wanted to? If so, how long until the arm recovers? And do you plan to start working again?

@Egoassist

Makes sense--so the business was necessary and helpful when you started it (making sure you're staying financially afloat). And it's still part of your general life plan. (That's nice that your arm is in good shape and that you'll be able to restart where you left off. 💜) But there's now a recognition of two different "prongs" or things that you're focused on: 1) the business, 2) working on figuring out the narcissism stuff.

Understandable that if the business feels like it's moving in a positive direction and has a good chance of becoming very profitable, you'd want to get your extended family and siblings involved so that they can benefit from it as well (as opposed to all of that money being funneled only into you). Re: persuading others that it's not just a grandiose delusion and that they can trust it and it's worth getting involved, I guess some potential doubts/concerns/objections to anticipate and answer might be "what's the evidence that this has a strong chance of succeeding", "what's the current plan and is it realistic", "is there any risk or burden for me if I get involved", etc.

***

"So I can honestly say, I'm Sorry, it wasn't your fault. See, it was this."

Gotcha, so basically saying to people something like this (with more detail)?

"In the past, I did/said XYZ to you. I treated you as if you were the one doing something wrong or being unreasonable. But looking back, much of that conflict was coming from my own side. I understand in what ways I was contributing to the situation, and I understand the hurt that you experienced (and why you understandably felt as though I was the one doing something wrong). I apologize for the fact that things happened the way that they did, and I feel like I have a path or set of actions I can take going forward that will allow me to avoid hurting you or anyone else in the same way again."

@QuietMagic

Thanks and I'm glad things are good.😀

They did a good jobs getting the forums back to sensible in my book... It was a bit of a mess.

I wonder how many variables of narcissism there is. What births it for individuals.

In my case and in hindsight, I can follow my development of it pretty accurately I think. Everything boils down to gross insecurity and lack of attention I think. Always feeling inferior around others and then also trying to do my best to be my best. The problem comes in when you're trying to show everyone how smart we are because in reality we feel inferior to them. Of course they all have their own problems and so you come off as a braggart or a show off. Plus one can be so focused on their own accomplishments, they don't have the ability to acknowledge or feel what the other person is going through at their level and in their world. 

These are the bits and pieces that I wanna try to put together from my childhood to my current situation.

It will be a slow process.

@Quietmagic @cloudysummer

It's been awhile, I hope you're doing well 😃

I tried my hand at that letter that I'm needing to write. Started off pretty good I think but then it got kind of cloudy at the end so I'm gonna give it a break. If time allows please feel free to critique it. The letter is 1 page long now but to finish it, may add another 3/4 page. Haven't worked out an exit stratagy yet. thanks.

Dear name,

I knew this conversation we’re going to come eventually. I didn’t expect it to take four years. I’ve missed you and your family greatly in those years.

I can only imagine you’ve had many hard times but hopefully just as many good times or more to balance things out. I’m sure the kids are struggling but figuring things out as they go and of course name1 is name1 so I’m sure he’s hanging in there.

The destructive nature of what happened between us has haunted me pretty much every day. The way it developed and concluded brought forth the ugly truth of how much I was disliked, disrespected and no longer someone that you looked up to. The silence of family members led me to the conclusion the majority held similar judgments toward me.

It's important to know that I’m not writing this letter out of concern for myself. Of course, if it resolves things I will be greatly blessed but by no means am I looking for some sense of vindication, justification. 

I’m writing this with the hopes of a resolution, more positive actions can start to take place in a world where negative energy is all powerful.

There are many threads woven together that created this calamity but sadly there is only one thread that started the design.

That thread was / is me. 

I never saw my narcissistic personality for what it was. During my upbringing the word narcissistic was only used in movies that define crazy people. There wasn’t an entire Internet explaining labels and personalities. 

My narcissistic tendencies developed at a young age and I can point out numerous relationships that got destroyed because of it. Of course, at that age, all of that could be allocated to social awkwardness and insecurities.

As I approached young adulthood, like everyone else, my insecurities dictated my actions and reactions but one thing stayed constant. I continued alienating people and never forming bonds of permanence

And so, the story goes…… this desert of isolation only fortified my independence and my nativity never allowed for any others productive insights to pierce my fortified resolve to be better and to do better. My eternal quest of doing better only fed into my narcissistic personality to make it bigger and uglier.

In some ways I think my narcissistic personality kept me strong enough to make it through life but ultimately it is a destructive personality and it destroyed my relationship with you.

Name2 lied to you and you sucked it up to become name2’s advocate, her warrior to get her what she claimed was rightfully hers and all of that was on false pretenses.

But the only reason you believed it, was because name2 is a genius at what she does and combined with my narcissistic personality, which I had already and righteously planted the seeds of distrust and dislike causing the thread this whole situation is feeding off of.

@Egoassist

I'm glad the back-and-forth has felt helpful. I'm realizing something, which is that I really don't understand what happened and I've been making a lot of assumptions. 💜

I don't know if this fits, but I kind of have this feeling that there are different sides in conflict and it's making things really murky. (And that's maybe what's making it tough to figure out how to write the letter.)

***

1) There's someone/something that is blaming you, judging you, criticizing you, insisting that everything is your fault, etc.

I'd say that maybe the "narcissism" label falls into this pile too? It has the effect of making it so that, regardless of what your personal truth/experience is, it's possible for someone to dismiss it by saying "hey, your feelings don't matter because you're narcissistic". It kind of short-circuits the whole process of trying to connect with what feels true/real for you. Like you're not allowed to trust your experiences or don't have the right to feel hurt. Like someone's going to yell at you and say you don't deserve the kindness if you try to take care of yourself or be gentle with yourself. 😢

2) The other side is that beneath all of that judgment, there's this more vulnerable/personal reality of "I didn't do anything. I was hurt. Other people did things. I was shaped by that. I reacted based on who I was. I tried my best. I have no idea what I could or should have done differently given all that happened and who I was."

***

As soon as you try to connect with #2, #1 jumps in and is like "Hey, how dare you have feelings. Don't you know you're not allowed to do that?"

When you mention wanting to have an effective communication that's strong enough to withstand being rebuked, I wonder if that's like "I want to feel secure/trusting enough in myself that even if someone jumps in and starts being hostile/accusatory toward me and negating my experience, I can still have some feeling of stability in who I am and trust that I'm not wrong in how I'm understanding things."

[I'm making a lot of guesses/extrapolations. If something doesn't feel right, please do correct, tell me I'm wrong, etc. 🙏]