The Thinking Space Room Problems

@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn Thank you for clarifying this for us all :)

Ofcourse it also doesn't help much that moderators end discussions that are serious, on the basis that it must be kept "light-hearted". This usually happens, actually.

@NeoNeoNeoNeonPrune

Can you explain a bit more on this, please? Perhaps an example?

We are trying to make it a bit more of a supportive environment. Any supportive suggestions will help us.

@Eunoia

It actually might've been you this morning, I forgot. But anyways, we were talking about morality and if it's an animalistic instinct, a human trait, or a divine ability given to us by god (I think was what someone argued). And then a moderator came online and told us to move onto a different topic because the room is for lighthearted discussions that mod said.

So that makes it difficult I think to have thoughtful conversations. It was kept respectful, some people were disagreeing, but you can only have a discussion if people disagree with eachother, you can't have a thoughtful discussion if people don't disagree with eachother, I think.

@NeoNeoNeoNeonPrune

I agree with you there. As far as I know, people are asked to move on from a discussion if there's a huge chance of conflict(which is a lot bigger than difference in opinions) like for example about country politics or religious issues etc. I don't think I was really out moderating much today btw.

@Eunoia

Yeah I forgot who the moderator was.

But how are we supposed to have thoughtful discussion if we can't talk about countries, politics, religion, morals, sex, gender, racism? In my experience that's like 90% of the stuff I think about and can discuss about and all conversations end up at some point to stuff like that.

@NeoNeoNeoNeonPrune

I understand what you mean, But most of the time, in my experience,those discussions have a way of turning into arguments and sometimes those views of different people on those topics can be hurtful too. And most times, discussions on countries, racism, sex etc are not supportive. Maybe guided discussions can be better though. What do you think about guided discussions?

@NeoNeoNeoNeonPrune - Based on what you describe that does sound like heavy-handed moderating to me. Of course, I wasn't there.

Any topic can become polarizing so it would make more sense to me to hold off on asking people to change the subject unless there are signs of a serious conflict or problem brewing.

@NeoNeoNeoNeonPrune

That is really odd that a mod was asking you to move on. It is a heavy subject but that is what TS is for... thoughtful conversations. I mean if the conversation was being respectfully held then it is fine to talk about those things. It was wrong for that mod to come in and ask you all to change the subject, as TS is for those types of conversations.

So I understand what you mean how it makes it hard to have thoughtful conversations.

I don't TS is for light hearted chat as well.

@edwardsnowden - I don't think anyone will delete it, even if it is a bit of a screed (paragrpaph breaks, please)!

I do sometimes wonder about posts from seemingly new or dummy accounts. Like why hide?

Well, having thinking space as a trap crop is an interesting way of looking at it too, but too bad for those unsuspecting newbies...oh well

Thinking space imo is a room that attracts newbies by the title but the semantics of the room has somehow been moulded by people who are considered outlaws in other rooms. Very few who want to fit in, stay and evolve. I've seen this happen with the mods as well. Any mod who's new to TS tries to impose rules and inhibit the conversation the moment it starts to hike beyond their capability. But they soon understand the dynamics of the room and realize how chaos is the only way the members of the room are at peace and they go easy on the rules as time progresses.

What I do not comprehend is the hate it receives from the rest of the site. There are several other rooms available to cater your specific needs and offer the support you need in the exact form you wish it. TS functions perfectly to the dysfunctional regulars healing them in unexplainable techniques. How is it fair to deprive them of the aid just because it's considered insensitive by a few?

I do feel there should be more discussions though not necessarily restricted to politics or ethics or philosophy. Everything is an intellectual conversation/ discussion when you dissect it enough.
Labeling a certain list of topics as intellectual is immature and imposing such conversations as one or a few members please is uncertain too. The discussions could be frequent as well as diverse.

And to all the TS haters, Nobody is on this site without a reason. Coping mechanism varies exceedingly with each individual. TS is a room which boxes those who cannot fit elsewhere; which in no way implies we aren't seeking help. Just don't hate us.

@W3llThatSettlesIt

I do feel there should be more discussions though not necessarily restricted to politics or ethics or philosophy. Everything is an intellectual conversation/ discussion when you dissect it enough.

I fully agree but in practicality it doesn't always work that way. Politics and philosophy tends to attract more thoughtful people and more thoughtful discussion, while with casual topics a lot of people tend to have a hard time giving more than just simple answers. With a good host I think you can turn any topic into a thoughtful discussion but the moderator should be up to the task. Even when asking intellectual questions, on intellectual topics, people tend to give unintelligent answers or barely explain themselves. So you need someone I think who is tactful and is able to guide people into the right direction. But again, this is just if people actually want to have these discussion.

@NeoNeoNeoNeonPrune

Politics and Philosophy tend to attract more thoughtful people? I sincerely think you are categorizing thoughtfulness and intelligence based on your interests. A constructed proposal of your concern doesn't necessarily have to mean it is intellectual not to forget how subjective intelligence is. But yes. To successfully hold on a discussion, an able mod is essential and I think it's easy to request for one whom we think might be suitable coz the mods almost always are ready for it.

@W3llThatSettlesIt

Oh Settles I feel the same way.

Yup, name calling, harassing, passive aggressive comments, etc are valid coping mechanisms that we all fully support. aayyyy? ;)

Have fun in the ball pit chilluns ;)

I agree. Thinking Space makes me severely uncomfortable. It needs to either be monitored or shut down, and I honestly wouldn't mind either. I'm never going into that room ever again, people attacked me in there...

I've ventured into 'Thinking Space' every so often, Confucius, Plato etc, need not worry anytime soon on any level. There's been quite a lot of swearing by passing the 'swear' filter, but I couldn't even give you a context for the 'swearing'. I couldn't say that I've ever seen a paragraph in the room when I've visited. Maybe Admin should go through the last 6 months chat records and make an informed decision, they would find it very interesting.

@rebel11

I agree. I went in there to have a nice conversation but all to be found was harassment and grown adults making people uncomfortable. It's very unfortunate.

@rebel11 - We don't keep transcripts of the chat for confidentiality reasons. However, we are checking in regularly and keeping the room open to monitor what goes on when we are not present. It does make for an interesting read.

I've updated the Group Support Review form to include a section for reporting users with multiple accounts. You can find the form at number 16 in the chat room rules, or right here. Appreciate any help identifying these accounts!

@AffyAvo @Alystem

@Heather

I think it's useful to have this form, but I wonder what will be done with the information when something in the forum appears so clear and someone is allowed to use that current account.

Also, with the rule change, what does that mean for multiple accounts that preceded the rule?

@AffyAvo - Please could you PM me the account name you're referring to? If it's the one I think you mean, it was already dealt with yesterday.

Multiple accounts reported through the form will be deleted and the original account (with the earliest sign up date) left open.

Multiple accounts that have been used to cause harm to the community will be IP banned. In both cases an email will be sent to the account holder. This is something we needed to monitor better, hence the form.

Hope that helps!

@Heather Thank you to the proactive admins of 7 Cups! This seems like a fairly efficient way to get some of these problems under control.

@ladylazarus1971 Agreed!

First off TS is a great place. It is people who are regulars in other rooms that bad mouth it and then pop in to sully the chat in TS. I was always uncomfortable by the way people in other rooms bad mouth TS. I find the level of other rooms to be more or less the same as in TS. I also find the mod baiting here quite irritating, but it happens in most of the rooms that I have been to, TS is no different.

I just wanted to give a shout out to the mods who have been working hard to address issues in TS.Thank you for all your work. And thanks Laura for also popping in alot.

Well, good try with the Compassion Course added, and restriction to the room. I had been cautiously optimistic. Granted, it has been one day since the change; and so far, I'm seeing change, but nothing good. Instead of being confined to 1 room, the virus of TS is now spreading across to every other room available during the peak clique times that had been the stomping grounds of the most vocal opponents in TS to keeping it an open and friendly, as well as truly thoughtful, place in the 7 Cups community.

Maybe it is death throes, and a short-lived temper tantrum. Maybe the excitement of the TS refugees will run its course and they'll become bored with their ill-conceived revolution. But, geez, will someone wake me up when this stupidity nightmare is over?

I'm too old for this crapola.

@ladylazarus1971

"it has been one day since the change; and so far, I'm seeing change, but nothing good. Instead of being confined to 1 room, the virus of TS is now spreading across to every other room available"

Who could've seen that coming?

@ladylazarus1971

Maybe if you tagged the usernames of the persons (or suspected persons) culpable then your accusations might land on the right heads. As it stands though, I'm not sure I know who you are talking about. I don't see how there can be a positive discourse without specifics about who is doing what.

@darkcosmos Yes, I see that you can't. And that is indicative of the problem in general. It does no good to start "witch-hunting" (as you suggest with your engaging photo) and finger-pointing to specific individuals when it is a culture-wide phenomenon for a large sector of the posters in this particular room.

It doesn't make sense to do a run-down of "he-said, she-said" here. The point is that the atmosphere of the room is poisonous, particularly when some members encourage and foster negative behavior in fellow participants. Don't get bogged down by distinctions without a difference. False logic is the same as no logic at all. And calling out individuals who have been encouraged by their brethren to act in a stupid way is simply not helpful to any meaningful conversation here, it just clouds the issues at hand.

@ladylazarus1971

"culture-widephenomenon for a large sector of the posters in this particular room."

When are you in Thinking Space? I don't remember ever seeing you.

@WilleZurMacht I've been in TS multiple times throughout the last few weeks, including last night and tonight when I saw you and several other participants of these forums (although when I write night, it was night for me but I don't want to assume it was night for you and be unnecessarily confusing). I have visited TS on a couple dozen occasions over the last few months, but have rarely actively participated since about December if I recall correctly, because I did not feel it appropriate to interrupt the room's clique flow, which also both rebuffed and alienated the "outsiders" I observed attempting to join into the conversation.

Please don't try to play it off like I'm some kind of busybody who is just being unnecessarily reactive to the TS BS. I have spent plenty of time in many other chat rooms, and have NEVER faced the same level of insular hatred TS shows for anyone outside its known regulars. Sometimes the other rooms have problems with accepting newcomers, but in TS it has been EVERY SINGLE VISIT. And not just me. I'm an old lady with a thick hide and I don't care so much about my own supposedly hurt feelings. But I do worry about the more sensitive members who can't take this kind of rejection without being damaged.

Don't tell them to form a thick skin. That's rude and unsupportive. 7 Cups exists to help people tread water when they are floundering and scared of drowning. You're throwing them into the deep end, then shrugging when they don't float and claiming it's not your fault. If you don't want to be supportive of others, stay the *bleep* away from an emotionally delicate support system.

There's a whole great big internet out there that has sites that cater to all kinds of people. Perhaps (definitely) somewhere out there exists some chat rooms that allow you free rein to be snarky, ironic, and oh-so-snide. But that place is not 7 Cups. Wouldn't you rather be somewhere that supports your philosophies than where you have to p!ss everyone off and swim against the tide? It's gotta be exhausting, and probably only fun if you've got a martyr complex.

@ladylazarus1971

"I'm an old lady with a thick hide and I don't care so much about my own supposedly hurt feelings. But I do worry about the more sensitive members who can't take this kind of rejection without being damaged."

And you calling them refugees is supposed to be a compliment?

@ladylazarus1971

You can't just call a large group of people a virus, poisonous and a stupidity nightmare to dismiss them. How about giving an actual example of an action, even without a name. You don't like the way people were greeted? I don't like trolls or spammers either, but when you create an us vs them mentality you condemn innocent people.

@darkcosmos I have never referred to any 7 Cups member or group of members as poisonous, viral, or stupid. It's the attitude that's the problem, not the people.

@ladylazarus1971 And yet you continue to attack the people.

@Versatchy @ladylazarus1971 can we depolarize this and instead of reinforcing an us vs. them framework try to look for shared or common goals to work on instead?

@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn I would very much like that.