Anxiety begets Anxiety
Hello all, this is my first time posting. I honestly didn't know this place existed until I stumbled on it during a web search. That being said, I'll get right too it. I am married to a woman who has General Anxiety Disorder. I've met several people over the years that have GAD, but hers is one of the more severe cases. She regularly sees a therapist and is on medication. However, from what I've read, people with more severe cases either get clingy or they move into avoidance. In her case it is avoidance. She rarely talks with me. She doesn't love human contact and veers away from it. She doesn't want me to sleep in the same bed, or sit next to her on the couch. For the most part I have been able to cope. The real problem is that her anxiety symptoms seem a lot like someone who is emotionally disconnected, it is a red flag in the relationship, and so I just live my life with red flags blaring in my ears constantly. Recently, two of our close friends started having marital problems. I won't go into a lot of details, but my wife has been having a lot of conversations with the husband. In the end, my guess is that they will be able to fix their marriage, and my wife is truly only trying to help a friend. However, over the last two weeks, it is enough to send me over the top. I say this, because among all my other insecurities and red flags in the relationship, now I am dealing with her talking for long periods of time with another man who is having marital problems, all the while I barely get two words out of her. The other day I completely broke down, the anxiety got to me, I couldn't help it. When I looked to her for assurance and help, I got the cold shoulder, it's not her fault, my anxiety heightens her anxiety and she is barely hanging on. Anyway, my brain is whirling. I've been married to her for over 15 years, and for the first time, I think I am going to seek therapy. It's a hard pill for me to swallow, to realize I've reached this point. Being so new here I don't know what to expect, answer, don't answer, I just needed to say something, and I don't want to set her anxiety off in the process. Thanks for reading.
@happychipmunk
I am sorry to hear of all the struggles you are having in your marriage due to your wife's anxiety. Mental illnesses are hard on everyone, not just the person experiencing the illness. There is no shame in seeking help for yourself. You're doing the right thing. I'm proud of you for being here.
đź’ś Morgan
@happychipmunk
I'm sorry to hear that.. Must be hard for you to go through this. Seeking therapy is the brave, bold way to do. It's to take care of yourself. You're doing the right thing. Might be hard at first, but I hope it'll help you.
It’s great that you’re getting support here at 7 Cups and seeking therapy. Dr David Burns has some great books on anxiety and communication with a partner. For anxiety, “When Panic Attacks” and “Feeling Good Together.” I’ve read both and they helped me a lot, especially the book on communication. Using it I was able to restore two relationships that seemed beyond repair.
All the best
@happychipmunk
I think when a relationship is driving us "crazy" it means we need help, it doesn't matter what our partner is doing. Have you heard about codependency? Working through 12 steps for codependents is helpful, you can search for codependency anonymous groups in google. Wish you get better.
There can be no doubt that we as a couple need help. We are cought in a vicious cycle. I desperately want to connect with her, but ultimately I feel shunned and overwhelmingly lonely and she feels like I'm being clingy, maybe even smothering her. However if I don't engage there is virtually no communication. Over the last week I've read through 4 books, two on loving someone with anxiety. And two just on general relationship skills. I even took marriage counseling classes in college and have read through several others to boot. The GAD in this case makes the struggle unique. I cannot demand something that stirs her anxiety. Part of the issue with the books is that even those that focus on anxiety are way to broad. Her avoidance and distancing herself from me is a very specific thing for a very specific disorder. My guess is that we will soon be looking for marriage counseling, but with that, I believe, it will be fruitless unless we get someone that really gets her.
All that being said, none of it is any good if I don't deal with myself first. I've already been searching for a therapist and will start making calls tomorrow.
Thanks to all of you for your helpful thoughts. More than anything I just needed a place to write about all this, everytime I try to talk with her about it she feels guilty, and her anxiety spikes. And it's hard for my other friends to understand.
@happychipmunk I think I will post this hear so as to not create endless threads based on my anxiety. Over the last day or so, my wife has been a little extra clingy and secretive with her phone. The problem is, I'm still reeling from my previous anxiety. I can't tell whether she really is being extra clingy and private with her phone, or whether I am over reacting to my perceived fears. Her dad is a retired counselor and I talked with him about it last night, partially, because I wanted someone else to be on the lookout and not me with my over anxious mind. I told him that I was anxious and this very well might just be something in my head. However, as I wake up this morning, my anxiety over this has not dimmed at all. It is going to be a long few days I think, and I am going to have to bite my tongue a lot as I try to stop myself from saying anything, especially being that there might not be anything there.
@happychipmunk
Hey man, I also have anxiety and a greater-than-average need for personal space. My partner constantly wants to talk and be touched, from the time he opens his eyes in the morning to the time I fall asleep listening to him talk to me late into the night. And I love him very much, and I hope he never feels that my need for space is any sort of rejection of him, but I know he feels this. It makes me sad, honestly, and I question our compatability a lot.
But as someone on the other side of your situation, I am happy with the arrangement we are making. The more we talk and fight and learn about each other, the better we adapt. I have been responsible, for instance, for making it clear that I don't want to talk when I *know* I don't have the energy (because when he suspects I am politely/impatiently listening, he feels hurt), so he can be assured I *am* listening and engaged when I do talk with him. I try to engage more in conversation, and he tries to back off at certain times - sometimes we are successful, and sometimes very much not. But it helps to have something to work on, so each person feels reassured of the other's affection (in whatever way they deliver it). Cheers to you for showing her patience all these years - that should never go unappreciated.
Best,
Zep
@ZeppelinsOverhead thank you so much for your reply. I can tell you it is hard in my situation, it is hard on this side of the fence. Even over these last two weeks where I have kind of imploded. I looked to her for help when I was my most vulnerable and she just wasn't there. I know that it is because, my vulnerability spikes her anxiety, I know, that I have no way of fully comprehending what she is going through. I just end up feeling very alone. We used to talk at night sometimes before bed. However, now she prefers it when I sleep somewhere else, part of this is due to the fact that I snore (we have tried a few things, but alas! to no avail, I still snore, and then she can't sleep). This means that we don't get a chance to talk at night, and during the day when I try to converse with her, it is very straight forward, there's no chance for me to just have an open conversation, she shuts me down before I can get too far along. We have children, and they have been great in terms of acting as a buffer between us and ultimately, getting us to talk with each other, and that helps. However, kids grow up and move away, what happens if in 7 years when both our kids are in college I'm left in the house with someone who wants no connection with me, through no fault of her own. I love my wife, and if that is the life I have to live to be with her, then so be it, but if I can work on things now with the kids still in the house, we will be better off.
I called a counselling group today and had to leave a message. I am hopeful that it will work out. I am also hopeful that they will be able to see me sooner rather than later, but we will see.
@happychipmunk
Is she open to the idea of going to counseling together?
@ZeppelinsOverhead she is, and we have talked about it. However, I am going to be looking for someone a little more specialized. I need someone who can work with couples where one of them has a mental illness. I've read enough books to know many of the things they may suggest, and I feel like those things may not fit our particular situation (or maybe they would, hence the desire for something a little more specialized). However, I will also say, that I personally am not in a good place right now. If we went to counselling, in my current condition, the sessions wouldn't be about bringing us together, it would be about me not dealing well with certain issues. This is why I am seeking counselling for myself right now. Once I am a little bit more stable, we will move on into relationship counseling.
Also, for your sake, I have come to realize that my comments about needing a specialist might be hard on someone else who is dealing with some of this themselves, please don't take it that way. My desire for a specialist comes from the sincere desire to reconnect with my wife, while at the same time taking serious precautions for her anxiety. It does me no good if a counselor suggest doing a bunch of stuff, if they are all things that will make her uncomfortable or cause her anxiety to spike, out of care for her I would simply avoid doing them and then we are worse off. I need someone that understands her anxiety, is able to tell me where I am messing up and where I can do better, while at the same time giving us helpful things to do. With a specialist, they very well might suggest things that make her uncomfortable, but I will take comfort knowing that the person is keeping her in mind when he suggest them.
None at all, I think it shows respect for the illness that you are seeking specialized treatment. Good luck to you and your wife! Feel free to chat anytime you'd like
Just an update on this. I put a call in to a counselor office, they called back and are checking to see if anyone can see me, that was two days ago, the wait is excruciating. My anxiety has not dimmed in potency at all. My fear and paranoia has not dimmed either. The more rational part of my brain has convinced me that my wife is in fact being secretive with the phone, but not to hide something devious, but to help me, that is, she knows if I see her texting back and forth with this other man, it will set me off, it will be a trigger per se. I haven't talked with her about it, and maybe I should, but I am afraid that my anxiety will take over and I will say things I regret later. Her dad was also able to talk with her, which does ease my mind a little. I also talked with her about seeing her counselor together for future marriage counseling. Her counselor has been excellent for her, she really gets my wife and has helped her a ton, so it will be about as close to a specialist as we can get. So, lots of positive moves, but I am still very anxious.
Update: Again, please disregard if you don't want to read about it. I am pretty much using this thread to capture a snapshot of where we are at. I probably need to start journaling again, but I know that when I read about others, I am always interested to know what happened.
I did receive a call back and got an appointment on Saturday with a therapist. I have another session tomorrow. There are definitely some things that I need to deal with before my wife and I tackle the bigger issues that we face as a married couple. I have my own issues and an almost obsession with safety that seems to be woven throughout my life. It's not the biggest problem in the world, but even a small problem, added to a marriage and then give it 16 years to slowly grow can end up in a bad place.
I would also say that as I talked with the therapist there is a chance that there is more to my wife and I's story then what I first understood. When describing my issues, she did mention that not all of it was anxiety, but she is a good therapist and was very clear that she was not there to diagnose her, but to work with me.
On that note however, the counseling center that I found, the same one that my wife goes to, (different counselors) are very well equipped to deal with Anxiety disorders, but also relationships with mental illness, and so once I get to a point of more stability, my wife and I will be able to start relationship counseling there. She also plans to bring it up at her next session.
There are a lot of things that are still not good, and deep down, my fear is that they will never be good. However, with our current path, I do feel like there is at least some hope. I don't know if I will post on here every week (that might be a little too tedious) but I will probably post here from time to time as I progress, and feel free to ask questions, there is some beauty to the semi anonymity that 7 cups brings.
Kind of a further update here. My wife has been seeing a counselor for a while, and her appointment was yesterday. She usually refrains from bringing me up in the session, but obviously, with all that has been going on with me, she finally did. After the session we had a very tough discussion. She repeated all the things that she has said off and on for the last 6 years. She loves me, but is not in love with me, and never has been. She also added that she really has no problem with people touching her, it is just me, there is something about me that she simply can't stand. She says she has battled these feelings for our entire marriage, and she feels exhausted and just done. She also confessed that she felt very connected to this married man. She mentioned that her therapist called her out with the married man, and her father is also aware of it, so she will be backing off for now, but I don't know what that means.
In our talk, I argued that her and I have both individually been trying to fix our marriage, but neither one of us have worked with the other as a team. She accepted that critique. We have a few things we will start doing as a team for now, while I continue to see a counselor and get myself figured out and then marriage counseling after that, hopefully, with professional help we can overcome this. However, I admit, that after last night, I feel really hopeless. I also feel rejected. I also feel like our marriage never had a chance, and maybe still doesn't. She basically, married me because she was afraid that no one else would have her, but when she connected with the married man, she realized that yes, someone else would have her, and she could experience emotional connection with him, which is what she always wanted. I have lived for 1.5 decades in a lie that is coming unraveled. She always told me it was her anxiety, and she truly does have a bad case of it, so I bought it. I loved her though she would never hug me, or sit by me, or talk to me. I fought through it all, suppressing my own desires and emotions, and trying my best to put her needs ahead of mine (admittedly failing at times.) And now as I dig out of the other end, I truly don't know what I feel anymore. I love this woman, I really really do, and want to do what is best. I have hope that perhaps something will come of the therapy, but my hope is limited at this point. I also fear what will happen with our children. I have always worked hard to have a stable home, but what if this just doesn't work, what if she leaves me. To be honest, if this other couple divorces, and the married man becomes single, I don't think my marriage has long for this world. I have therapy later today and will discuss all of this, but man is it a lot to take in.
@happychipmunk I think it is great that you are going to counseling to sort all of this out. Frankly, if your wife won't come around and give you what you need to be happy then you'd be better off finding someone more compatible with you. Perhaps she will work out her feelings and issues with her counselor to save your marriage but either way you deserve happiness and if she is going to continue to behave this way towards you then look at it as a new beginning. Try to take things one day at a time, live mindfully and don't dwell on tomorrow or yesterday; try to find things that make you happy today.
@datamasterchief thank you so much for your reply and advice. I work very hard to see her side of things and even now I somewhat understand where she is coming from. Her anxiety led her to marry me despite not truly feeling in love. She feels a lot of guilt and shame over this. My thoughts here don't always make that clear. She has tried very hard these last 1.5 decades to pretend to be happy, thinking it would make me happy. And yet, there were just certain things that she could not budge on, and it is in those things that ultimately bring us the most unhappiness, it is not just me that is unhappy, it is her as well.
However, let me also add something else that I have never mentioned here. There is something else going on in her family line. I'm talking about genetics. I have talked with her other relatives and their spouses, (on her dad's side) they all mention something similar. It isn't identical and depending on how long they have been married...etc. it can change/adjust. They all have different backgrounds and so, I think, they tend to attribute these feelings/distance to other things, but it is in all of them. As her husband I want to really look out for her, I can't do that if she leaves or abandons me of course. However, if she goes galivanting for this other man, my fear is that she will find herself right back where she is in another year or so, except she will have destroyed other people's lives in the process and made the lives of her children just that much harder. If I can stop that from happening I will. In the end, I love her dearly, and would prefer to stay with her, but admittedly, we have a mountain of work to do, and after yesterday, I just don't know if she is really ready or willing to do that work.
Update #whatever it is. In some ways there has been no new information. I have spent the last week away from her due to a conference I had to attend. She will be leaving soon for her own trip that was planned long ago. However, it is a strange thing as my mind has shifted in every direction. I feel like in the past week I have experience every emotion known to humankind. I really don't want my wife to divorce me, I have built my life around her. And yet, the lies that she has told me over the years, that I bought. The lies, even about her mental illness that she wielded against me because she just didn't want to be around me, they are hard to handle and hard to take. I have gone from feeling betrayed and abused, to sad at the idea that she might leave me. While I hate to admit it, my mind has even wandered into the arena of what it might be like if I had to date again, I mean, what is that even like at 40 or 41, or however old I would be when this is all over, but I don't want to let my mind go there either, because it feels like I am considering my marriage a failure. However, in all these things, the one constant seems to be anxiety, depression, and pain. I do have a counselor and she has been helping to work through these issues, but man, all of this is so overwhelming.
@happychipmunk
I just read your post and I am very sorry to hear about your struggles. I find that sometimes I also need more space than others, and it has affected my relationship with friends and family.
In your previous comments you mentioned relationship counseling. I think it’s good that you’re reaching out for help. I’m not an expert on relationships but I think spending some times apart from your wife might help. Time apart to think about struggles in your relationship without your think being affected by the other. Sometimes relationships struggle when one or both of the people in the relationship become afraid of sharing their feelings, which can lead to them being paranoid of the other. I know that when I’m upset and trying to hide it makes me think of crazy things, like I’ll wonder if my friends and family are somehow reading my mind or stalking me. This makes me feel uncomfortable around them, and can make family dinnertimes awkward.
Another thing is, have you tried talking to the man that your wife is speaking with? Sorry if you already spoke about this as I’m just seeing your post/comments. Maybe asking him about his relationship with your wife. It might help.
Again sorry to hear about your struggles and sorry if my writing is all over the place, I’ve had a rough day. But I’m here to talk if you need it and I hope you and your wife can find a resolution.
@summerfleur I will answer what I can. I have talked with her, and her counselor and dad have talked with her about this other man. Effectively, they are not talking much anymore. While they still talk it is very limited at this point. It still causes my nerves to go crazy, but it is effectively over for now. If he divorces his wife however, I do have room to worry, as she felt connected with him and would probably see it as an opportunity for happiness that she cannot find in me.
I agree that spending time away from her will help me. It will not however, help her. She has made up her mind. It has become a really touchy spot in our conversations. While she is willing to go to counseling, if not for me, then for the sake of the children. And she will do so in honesty, which does give me some hope. However, I have known my wife all these years, and if there is one thing I can say, it is that she is stubborn when it comes to what she thinks she knows. If she really feels that she has narrowed things down, it will take an army to get her to change her mind. So my hope is limited, and I am trying to prepare myself for the worst.
@happychipmunk
Ok, based on what you’ve said it sounds like you are making a bit of progress, seeing as your wife has agreed to therapy/counseling and is honest with you about it(feel free to correct me if I’m wrong). Your fears are totally valid and I would feel the same way in your situation.
I’m not gonna sugarcoat things, the outcomes of this other man divorcing his current wife don’t look too good for you and your wife’s relationship. If your wife doesn’t wanna talk with you face-to-face, text her about it. Maybe while she’s traveling or on break at work. This way, she can disconnect anytime and she won’t feel cornered physically. However, if you feel that she is going to make you more miserable than you already are, then it’s your choice what you want to do next in the relationship. Don’t spend what precious time you have on this earth worrying and stressing about struggles in this relationship.
I sincerely hope things get better for you. But always prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Hope this helps. :)
