Q: Can mindfulness be harmful?

@wizeakre

Hi Wiz I so like your answer to this. I am sitting here thinking on my own answer to this as its a very good question.

@mimameid

Hi Mima thank you for this question. My answer might be long but I looked into this from some of my papers from classes a long while ago. I hope this helps you in the way it needs to

Mindfulness practices are quickly becoming part of the mainstream culture. At the same time misunderstandings about the nature and potential benefits of mindfulness meditation persist. Some think of the practice as self-absorbed or narcissistic, an escape into a meditative bubble in which one is dissociated from and oblivious to the outside world. When practiced poorly or for the wrong reasons, meditation does run the risk of leading people in this unfortunate direction. Some people may use meditation as an escape from the responsibilities of life or work, a way to bypass important challenges. Others may cling to meditation as a way of avoiding uncomfortable emotions.

But when practiced skillfully, meditation can be an effective in ones personal life, and in the community more broadly. Mindfulness is a state of nonjudgmental, calm attunement to ones experience in the present moment. state of being in which one is self-absorbed in personal dramas and neglectful or ignorant of others. To-do lists, and constant attention to phones and tablets leave people disconnected from one another, wreaking havoc on relationships and adversely affecting professional lives.

Mindfulness is seen in many ways and judged alot. But it's not to mean or seem to view in ones life as an attitude of "Im better nah-nah" Mindfulness is to help us focus on YOU only. How you feel and why? Not to be intense on feelings and thoughts. Ask or just reflect on thoughts and behaviors. To be more present in what you are doing. Also to form some needed healthy skills to help with any illnesses and mental health stuff. Hope this helps some

@RumpleSteeleSkin

Hi, thanks for responding. ^^

See, when you said mindfulness is supposed to focus on you only...that's kind of what I have a problem with. If we focus too much on ourselves then we forget other important things, like giving to other people, helping them, or becoming more sympathetic. If meditation is really meaning like "thinking about how you should act around others to better yourself and then be better to others" then that makes a lot more sense. I think perhaps you're meaning about the focus on what you're meditating about. If you meditate about only yourself, then I see that as being self-centered, but if you meditate about a certain situation, about God, about how you could have reacted to someone better, about a big decision, those are the things I think people should be getting out of meditation, not something like sitting there just thinking about how you're living your life instead of being active. But, I'm also more of a "doing" type of person, so perhaps that's why I don't quite understand it. Like, if something is wrong I would much rather be more active in fixing it rather than just sitting there meditating.

I dunno maybe I've formed this opinion because I've been seeing these "life coach" blogs that sometimes talk about meditation, that are very all about doing things for yourself, everything is about you. And I dunno they kind of rub me the wrong way. I could also be coming more from a religious standpoint, though, because I've been taught to live not just for myself, but that I should put other people first as an act of service. So these two ideas are currently clashing lol.

In my opinion, though, I sometimes think people take mindfulness in more elaborate ways. You can pretty much be mindful everywhere, without even thinking about it. I don't really consider it much of a "practice" like yoga. Like I can be mindful about letting someone cross the street before me, or mindful about how much I'm eating. While that takes some effort, yes, I feel like people make it more than it really is, perhaps as a way to try and "sell" it to more people.

@mimameid

HI Mima...hmmmm.....

I am taking all this in, and understanding what you shared. I need to think of a response now. WOW- you really got my brain into thinking mode. Thank you for shriang

@RumpleSteeleSkin

Aha, yeah I realized this was kind of word vomit and a lot thrown in. Just a note that this isn't really a post against mindfulness meditation, but since I'm kind of a skeptic about it, I wanted to know a bit more about how and why it works for people...to better understand. :)

@mimameid

I was reading this thread and thought I would share my own experience with you. Like most things, mindfulness could be taken to an extreme for some people and possibly in a negative way, whereas if used properly it can really be helpful to some.

With me it helps because I am a very selfless person. Too selfless for it to healthy. I tend to not care about my own needs and get myself into situations that make my own life worse...healthwise. I can use mindfulness to remember that while others need help sometimes, I can only do what is within my own power to do. It helps me to remember that I am only human, have a body with human needs, and I have my own emotions and mind to deal with. I can use my time in meditation to reflect on my situations and make sure that I come up with my solutions with the awareness of both, other people and myself.

It doesn't stop me from helping and doing for others but it does help me to set healthy boundaries for my own mental state. I find it enables me to do more for others because I am causing less "breakdowns" within myself. One of my biggest problems in the past was not being aware of what I needed to keep myself feeling okay.

So, I would say that in my situation, I needed to find a balance between the world and myself and it has helped me to find and maintain that balance.

I hope this helps.

@TeenyTinyAppy I really like your response. I can relate to being selfless and it being harmful to myself, like not doing enough self care. I'm glad mindfulness has helped you as well! <333

@NoneTheWiser Very well said! Thank you for sharing your input! <33

@mimameid

Hey, mimameid Thank you for your question. It's a good one, and I think it's an important one that needs addressed.

I can see why we might come to that conclusion because mindfulness has us tune in to our emotions, feelings, and thoughts--it makes us more aware of ourselves, and depending on how we look at it, we may see that as being self-centered. However, mindfulness is not self-centered.

Like Rumple stated, some may view mindfulness as a way of being in a "meditation bubble" that keeps us disconnected from others and the outside world. While it is true that we all have the potential to place ourselves in a bubble, both emotionally and physically, if we are practicing mindfulness, we are not in a bubble at all. In fact, we are more aware and open to not just ourselves, but other people, animals, sensations, and experiences around us. Mindfulness, when practiced correctly, opens up our world rather than closes it.

Rumple also made a good point that when we are distracted and not mindful, meaning when we are focusing on past or future thoughts like "I can't believe I said that" or "I have so many things to do," we disconnect ourselves from the present and subsequently disconnect ourselves from others. How? When we aren't mindful or in the present moment, we may not be able to fully engage in a conversation with someone because our thoughts are preoccupied.

So, while mindfulness has us being in tune to our thoughts and feelings, it is so we can better cope with them in order to live in the present moment and engage with others and the outside world as much as possible. I hope this makes sense. Let me know if I can explain better or if you have another question from this.

Thank you for your question.

@EmunahHere

I agree with what you wrote here.

Also, mindfulness includes taking the time to really look at your surroundings. The colours, textures, shapes, objects, subjects etc, around us and really connect with those things (eg: nature). Mindfulness can be as simple as truly being absorbed with what someone else is saying. Being mindful of every word they speak, how they are conveying their message (the sound of their voice, facial expressions), etc. So as you can see, it's not just about meditating alone and just being aware of yourself. When I eat a block of chocolate, I make sure to focus on the taste, the texture, the smell, etc. That's me being mindful.

@RayneStorm

Rayne thank you for participating here. And also I so agree with what you shared here

@RayneStorm

So that's really all it is? Because some of the other meditations on here suggest otherwise, at least the ones I've listened to so far.

@mimameid

Meditation is a form of mindfulness, but that being said, it's two different things. They share a lot in common, but mindfulness doesn't require a person to go somewhere quiet and just sit and be alone with yourself and your thoughts. That's why a lot of people don't practice mindfulness. They see it as a chore that they need to make time for. But the truth is that you can practice mindfulness even while being surrounded by people in a busy environment. It's as simple as tuning into one little action. For example, washing the dishes... Focusing (being mindful) of every little action... The temperature of the water and how it feels against your skin, etc. It's a deliberate way of being. Hope this helps.

@mimameid

Just to further clarify, all these meditations that are out there require mindfulness as well. The focusing on your breathe, being alone, etc... You're still focusing on something and therefore you're being mindful while meditating. So those mindfulness meditations are part of it. I'm just saying that you don't need all that in order to be mindful. Mindfulness can be practiced anywhere and everywhere, and doesn't require much more than simply being aware of your current experience (including emotions, etc). Make sense?

@RayneStorm

Yes, and I actually apologize because I didn't read your answer clearly before responding.

The clarification that mindfulness is different than meditation makes sense. I see people use it interchangeably all the time and it sometimes makes me wonder what people are really talking about you know? Mindfulness in the context of some of the recordings on here (for instance, "finding your inner child" or ones that involve heavy visualizing of random things such as balloons, a garden, a tree, etc) haven't really helped me much in the past before (or maybe I'm just super stubborn, who knows? xD), so I'm still a little skeptical about the long-term effects of those kinds (you can lead me to all the positive research on the web but that doesn't mean everyone is included in those studies).

Going back to my original question, being mindful in just that context of paying more attention to everything around you, to your thoughts, etc, doesn't really seem that self-centered to me. But when so much emphasis on meditation has to do with "finding yourself" that's when I think you can be in danger of losing sight of things like strengthening relationships with others, doing good in the community, etc. If you're so focused on "fixing yourself" and have the mindset that meditation can help solve that, then you run into the danger of ignoring the support you have from other people. That's mainly what I was trying to say in my original post. :)

Thanks for your response!

@mimameid

The psychologist Thomas Joiner recently posed this question in a book and an article. To answer your main question, yes I do think there are ways of trying to be mindful that are counterproductive, but it is my opinion that many of these are misinterpretations of what mindfulness is & what it is about. Mindfulness can seem very me oriented in part because there is always a me here now that can be contacted, and contacting the me here now is simply the easiest way to contact the present moment. So a lot of training in mindfulness involves the me here now". Yet the present moment is what mindfulness is all about, in other words mindfulness is about what is. And yes, you are certainly "what is" at any given moment and so too are others who are in your life and with you at any given moment.

Ideally mindfulness would include all that is here now, and therefore would be totally and completely inclusive.

If we feel that our mindfulness is becoming too restrictive all we have to do is notice that this is occurring and be mindful . That is to say, gently redirect our attention to what is here now.

@mimameid

What a great question @mimameid, and looks like you have helped start a lively discussion. Ive just started with 7 cups and so I am joining this discussion a bit late, but I thought to write something in case it is still helpful for anyone else. I have been putting a little effort at practicing formal sitting meditation for about 20 years; although I am very interested in the practice, I am quite lazy and dont often follow through with much practice! But I have heard some interesting ideas and tips about mindfulness and have tried to put some of them into practice.

One thing I found helpful some years ago was the reminder that mindfulness can be helpful in terms of supporting a neutral state of mind. When my mind is a bit agitated with excitement or frustration or worry, that I can increase my awareness of the breath and this helps mind settle the mind a little so it is more manageable and I can use it to go about my day more effectively. Because it is neutral, the motivation with which I do it becomes really important. In a way then, it is up to me if the practice of becoming aware of my breath is self-centered or an act of kindness to those around me. I know when I slow down, I can often treat others more gently too. In fact, if I am acting in automatic pilot, I am often more at risk of not being gentle or kind towards others (or myself).

However, to put this in some perspective, we could say that burglars are likely also very mindful! Very aware of their movements, and intentional with their actions!.....while they are breaking into other peoples houses and stealing things!

So, I think your questioning the motivation behind our mindfulness practice is really spot on. Thank you for bringing up the topic!

@mimameid This is such an interesting discussion you brought up here!

I think the previous comments are really spot on and I find myself relating a lot to what has already been said. I just thought to interject a little more support here as well, in case it might be helpful

Yes, many mindfulness exercises focus on the individual self and its environment. However, there are others I've found that can help improve your relationships or interactions with others. For example, loving-kindness meditation "involves mentally sending goodwill, kindness, and warmth towards others by silently repeating a series of mantras." (Source) "Those who regularly practice loving-kindness meditation are able to increase their capacity for forgiveness, connection to others, self-acceptance, and more." (Source) There is one example here, under the Uncategorized section. As more of a doer and wanting to help others, perhaps these may be more fruitful or beneficial for you

Mindfulness isnt necessarily a cure or a miracle worker, but it can be beneficial, as mentioned, particularly for those of us with mental illness or emotional issues. You are right that we should not disregard other forms of support that could help us. Being mentall ill, I find mindfulness helpful in conjunction with other forms of support and treatment.

Different direction than you are taking but yes, I would say it can be harmful. When used too much, at the wrong time, or instead of doing other things.

One example I have heard is to use mindfulness to manage an illness trigger. I see this to be potentially dangerous depending on the illness, as in some cases avoidance of the trigger itself is the way to go. Also, using mindfulness to managed being triggered isn't going to limit the damage from the trigger in most cases - appropriate treatment can.

Another example of just doing too much - I don't see how it's possible to be mindful and sleep. Not getting enough sleep is harmful so in that case doing too much can cause harm.

In general, I don't think our minds are meant to be utilized in a way in which we are mindful for every waking moment. It's harder to draw a harm connection that way, although there are some examples out there from some fairly intensive retreats. I think overall, balance is needed, and this includes looking inward vs. looking outward.