How do you deal with a passive aggressive introverted narcissitic spouse?
For many years I've dealt with this issue with my wife, and according to my other threads, it seems that others are dealing with the same thing too. How do you cope with this in your own home? Are there ways to bring about change in their behavior? What success have you had if any?
I don't know about others, but I'm getting really tired of trying to cope and deal with this in my wife. I simply don't understand why she has to be this way. I'm not a hard person to get along with at all. In fact, many people who know me find me to be a pleasant and easy person to converse and get along with.
So why is it such a struggle for my wife to be a loving and caring spouse towards me? Why all the head games? I just don't get it!
Hopefully this can be a thread where many of us who struggle with this in our spouses can come together and maybe find some answers beside leaving and getting a divorce. I'd rather that not become an option for me, but I'll be darned if I'm going to live the rest of my life like this. I'd rather be single and on my own than deal with this anymore.
So what say you? Got any advice? Or maybe you want to vent your struggles here too. If so, let-r-rip!
@Spearman60
I totally hear you. It is not easy dealing with someone we chose but didn't "choose." I thought my husband was some way, but it turns out that I was codependent and chased him. I sought him out. Also, it turns out, he's an avoidant attachment style. I would never, ever, ever want someone I chose to love to avoid me...or so I thought. It turns out that when I was a child, my mother treated me the exact same way, As the 7 Cups book states, we tend to seek what's familiar rather than what's "new." It's familiar for me to be rejected. It's new, and weird, to do the opposite.
I find that looking inward is the key. Why do I seek the partners I choose? What is it in me that seeks this rejection and avoidance? That's the start of the quest to heal. Once you figure out that your inner child was neglected, harmed, or whatever the case, then you can work to heal. Until then, we are thinking it's all about the other person when really, they have their own pain to conquer.
I found that I am codependent. I mean, my mom was not a good mom. Sure, she probably didn't know anything else...and whatever. The pain still happened to me. This just means that I can only do one thing...heal. I can't change the past. I can only change my future.
I have two choices. I can either live happy with my avoidant mate, learning how to love myself and be happy alone, go inward, find the "who" that I am and love me. Or, I can continue to beg for attention, beg for love, beg for scraps of whatever my mate wants to throw my way. Well. I have to say. After 5 years, I determined I will no longer beg. I don't want to be a beggar.
If you look up avoidants, the literature says they can't deal with their emotions, they had childhood trauma different than mine, and if I get out of my head, I can see that had I been healthy in the beginning, I wouldn't have chosen a mate like this. However, I did. So, what will I do now? Will I play the victim? Or, will I stop that and take action?
You can stay or divorce, but either way, action must be taken. Stop being a victim. Love yourself. Stop caring about what she wants. Go within. Figure out who you are and take charge of your life. If she is still there, great. If not, then move on. You are still young and have a lot of life left to live. Be happy.
You can actually stay with her and be happy, but you have to decide to do that. You have to go inward, care about yourself, maybe even meditation and determine who you are. Love yourself.
Okay, so that's my soapbox for today. Sorry. ;) I am living this as I speak it (or write it), so I am not just telling you empty stuff. I am actually doing this, too. :)
@yardcarrot
I totally get what you're saying. I understand the experiences of childhood and seeking what's familiar. I did that when I dated my wife. She had a lot of my mother's traits and I fell for it... LOL! Men tend to do that when seeking a wife. My relationship with my mother wasn't that great growing up. And to this day, sadly enough, I regret my choice in marrying her. It pains me to admit that, but it's true.
I'm trying to make myself more emotionally and mentally healthy by doing things I love to do like my hobbies. But the problem is, I crave intimacy and closeness with a good loving woman. I can't get that with her. And I have made a point to stop caring about how she is, what she wants and even how she feels. It was all causing me too much anxiety and stress. I felt like I was walking on pins and needles at times.
Stay with her and be happy.... hum.... not sure if I can be good at that. I crave intimacy too much.
All you wrote there is good, and thank you and appreciate it. This may shock you, but I'm not that young anymore. I'm 62 now, and I've been dealing with this for 40+ years, but recent years have been too overwhelming at times. It was kinda off and on over the early years, but now its more consistently bad and harder to deal with and she's gotten worse.
But I will work more towards being happy and care about myself more. It's not easy for me. Thanks!
@Spearman60
you are not alone and many come to realize if they could have a do - over they would say NOPE somebody else .......... it is not all 20/20 hindsight.....
people change but it is not right to ignore a spouse..... being happy with ourselves is not a substitute to lay in someones arms to share intimacy with and yes at a certain age we cannot wait forever hoping they change or catch a clue.
@toughTiger6481
I was trying to respond to your post here, but I'm getting an error code....
@toughTiger6481
I often think about how that one decision in our lives can greatly and vastly change the direction and course of our lives. We realize that more when we get older and we look back at many of the decisions we've made. Marriage for instance. What if I passed her up and started dating someone else? Would it have been better? What if I stayed with my high school sweetheart I was dating when I first met with my current wife? Would life with the high school sweetheart been better than with my wife? Would it have been worse?
@Spearman60
I do not know what would happen if we met some one else took another job ... delayed or did not have kids or had more ......... there is no do over and many people so unhappy they daydream or think what if all the time ..... they lose their present....
i think we need to play the hand we are dealt and make the best of it no matter what .......... we do not get Mulligans but i would agree that would be nice .... be a good person and the karma reward is one do over.... lol
@toughTiger6481
In my early years of marriage, I saw the problems, but thought in time they would work themselves out. But that didn't happen. The idea of divorce came up now and then between us, but neither of us gave it serious consideration nor did we pursue it. Sometimes I wished I did early on and maybe I would be much happier today.Wished we were all granted a "mulligan" in life, where we could experience a full trial run, then be granted to go back and undo our mistakes and regrets with the wisdom we gained in the trial run. But then again, maybe that's not a good idea either...@yardcarrot
Thanks so much for explaining the anxious-avoiding attachment relationship ***. When i recognized that in my own marriage, it was an aha moment. It didn't fix it, just made sense of the suffering. Even before that, I also made a realization of codependency. We tried to cut that codependency cold turkey, but it was too painful, and one of us almost lost it. We have friends like that too, who are miserable with each other, but will never split apart. Like you said, you try to do best under the circumstances and try to live your life to the fullest, working around the limitations.
The thing is, we are not entitled to be happy or for our lives to have meanings. Some people die young or live in suffering. Some people lose love ones in wars or natural disasters. Just look what is happening in Ukraine and Turkey/Syria. It's up to us to be happy with what we have. We lived to 50+ in relative health and safety. I don't know how much longer. I'm going to count my blessings.
Ps. One of the books, i read recently made me realize that anger is the feeling when you can't get what you want. It's so much true. What do you do then? lower your expectations or fight for what you want? The choice is yours. As with everything else in life, there seldom right and wrong choices.
@LostTurtle2
I feel we all have a right to be happy though. I just feel stuck and miserable where I am and no easy way out, and it does cause me to feel angry a lot. I'm not happy at all in this marriage anymore. Even through the years, we've struggled a lot and I wished a lot of times I could have ended it then, and almost did once. But our two kids is what kept us together, and then I thought once they were gone, that was it. But yet here I am still sticking it out. But the last couple of years have been miserable to me. No intimacy at all. She's just not interested and its driving me crazy. It's hard to get intimacy from someone who doesn't want it.
Her passive aggressive behavior is driving me nuts too. I try to ignore her manipulative behavior, but I have days where it just makes me angry. I get to where I can't stand to be around her anymore.
I don't know what to do anymore. Just keep trying to be happy I guess and just concentrate on other things besides her... its not easy.
I like how you think. I was born into trauma. Oldest of 4 kids. My parents loved me, even though they were so clueless about raising a child. Once I got to the age where I could talk and walk, I realize that’s when they got sick of me. I was a needy shy awkward little girl. I was an emotional little wreck too. I was clingy to my mother, I think she liked it that way. She dressed me up all the time, made me have super long hair, so she do her fancy braids every day. I got way too dependent on her. Once I started demanding attention or annoyed her, which was all the time, she just shut me up by giving me whatever I wanted. Candy always worked and so did shopping. I don’t remember doing any family activities together as a child. Unless we were driving 20 minutes away to a bigger town that had a mall or a store. Once we were let loose in a store, or fast food joint, me and my siblings took off in different directions. My parents didn’t care, back in the early 1980’s it was pretty safe to do that. I grew up in a community of 1500 or less, it was safe. Even though my dad and mom had a bad reputation, the community watched out for us kids, I was always running around by myself or dragging my little sister and brother with me. Without any parental supervision. I had 2 very traumatic experiences as a little girl. Not sure if I ever told my parents, but I will never forget them. Once in the evening I was walking home after religion class behind our church, I was walking next to the cemetery. A man jumped up from behind a bush and tried to grab me. I BOLTED, I wasn’t far from home, I had to run fast and I made it. The other time was in broad daylight on our Main Street, I was maybe 2 blocks from my house, and a car slowed down next to me and the door swung open, once again, I bolted, and lost my shoe running. For whatever reason, I went back to grab my stupid shoe, and still made it home safe. I was so young, under 10 years old. Everyone in town new me as pretty little Shannon, the little girl with long dark hair in 2 braids past her butt. I am so lucky that I got away twice!! The truth is predators are still my biggest fans. I have been outrunning them my entire life. This last time though, I fell in love with one, and married him. I knew what he was when he laid eyes on me. I walked into a bar alone, and he spotted me. My red flags went up, and I chose to ignore them. I wasn’t physically attracted to him, for one, he was in a bar at 5pm. He was a smoker too, I find that disgusting. He told me that he loved to do all the same things I like do. He told me who his cousins were, and that sold me. I grew up with them in the same little hillbilly town. His cousins were just as rough as my family, but I ran with them. All of us kids ran all over town alone, doing whatever we felt like doing. My husbands uncle was more of a father figure to me than my own. I have so many special memories with his uncle. I fell in love with his family, more than him. I wanted a family, the kind I never had growing up. My in-laws loved me instantly and I felt the same. I fell back into bad habits with my husband. He was an alcoholic and addict , still is, we partied hard and a lot. I though getting a home together, and getting married would change him and his outlook on life. It just got worse, 6 years married has been the longest prison sentence ever. I have served my time, and all I want to do is walk away. That’s what I am doing, leaving my cute little house behind, all my beautiful flowers and prairie grasses that I love so much. I wanted to stay here forever and watch my flowers grow year after year. My four legged family of 6 rescue dogs has been broken up, and they lost their home and their yard which they loved so much. It’s painful, but I’m doing it. I want a plot of land in the country, no neighbors, just a garden and a hobby farm. A good job, a modest little home for myself and my animals. Peace and quiet, and nature. That’s my version of a dream life.
@yardcarrot very well said. I used to think I am only one thinking like this or living like this. yeah its been few years im just focusing on goodness and what makes me happy. IGNORING , AVOIDING , FORGETTING toxic ***. But yeah sometimes I feel tired of doing this all alone.. but most of the times im happy. one thing I realized from this relation is life is always a solo journey(emotionally) whether you are single , committed , married or whatever.. we have to help ourself to be happy and peaceful.
@eternalWind83
I'm having a hard time occasionally trying to be happy in all this. It's lonely. From the male side of this, I'm fighting thoughts and feelings that are hard to manage. I'm trying to stay on the good and right side of morality, but a marriage like what I have makes it hard to do. Is it generally easier for women than men? It seems to be from my perspective.
@Spearman60. My partner of 25 years didn’t like to talk very much. We are both retired and he would sit and read the newspaper all day or watch his tv shows. He has been watching football/soccer for years. I’m not sure why but I started asking him questions about the games. I found out that he was more than happy to talk about football/soccer. Plus once he got started it would lead to other conversations.
I learned if I want to get a conversation going I can start it with his favorite subjects. It will usually lead to other conversations. I found this by accident but it has been helpful.
@adventurousBranch3786
Wished my wife would do that for me.... but she doesn't show any interest in things I do. That's part of the problem with her. She's more focused on herself. Unlike most women, she doesn't seem to be interested in conversations with me most of the time.
@Spearman60. Does she have any interests that you could ask her about?
i appreciate all the sharing and possibilities of it could be their attachment style ( theory) or interests
but in my case it has slowly came to this ...somewhat distant years ago but now he is a zombie oblivious to basic cues in life and extremely selfish......and silent
when discussed now at 60 he wants to fall back on blaming childhood? seems like a lame excuse he is too lazy to have kept up the facade he gave a C*** about things now has forgotten all our history and is like an alien took over when reminded of stuff i get ... yeah yeah i remember now i got it ....
I was worried about dementia but he can bring up obscure TV or movie things or sports omg i do not need a play by play of something 30 years ago.....
in long term I have serious doubts about childhood items hitting 40 plus years later.
@toughTiger6481
How you been doing lately? Just thought I'd check in with you, hope you're doing okay...😊
@Spearman60
Doing as best i can day by day ........ appeasing my roommate and trying not to be angry about it.
Thank you so much for checking in on me.
@toughTiger6481
Yeah, same here. No change here... not that I was really expecting it that much from her. We're just two separate individuals living in the same house living with very little interaction. I got to get out and make some new friends... 😊
@Spearman60
i am looking for new job as long as i am here and not sole support i can take a type job with more interaction and meet new people think i want to do that ..... my job now i speak with most co-workers on a computer and sit by myself all day .... not very much human interaction.
@toughTiger6481
I understand that. I'm not on a computer, but I work mostly by myself
in remodel work on houses. Sometimes I wished I had a job around others
more, but then again, maybe I'm better off what I'm doing now. Hope you find a job with some good people! 😊
@Spearman60
hello again.... i have given notice to leave i think i am taking some time and a trip .i need a break from things have a friend who wants me to come visit.........
i have been trying to decide next steps slowly as i have jumped into things before and it did not go well ........ feel a bit lost at the moment .........
@toughTiger6481
Oh wow... how did he take it? Wished I could do what you're doing, but I just can't seem to get a break with my work and all. Guess that's a good thing too.
Hope your trip goes well. It's good to get away sometimes.
We had an eventful day today. Daughter and her dead beat husband came for a visit and 3 of our grand kids. It didn't go well. Without diving into the details, they left early today instead of staying till Sunday. They live 200 miles away.
Wife broke down after they left. I think she's having a "wake up" moment. I spoke to her for a bit about how I felt about everything, but we didn't reach any conclusions. If things don't turn around in the next few months, I may have to do what you're going to do and just get away for a while.
Right now we're in the middle of this "break down" she's having, so who knows where it goes from here. Been in this spot before, so nothing may change.
Anyway, just try to enjoy your time away. Give yourself plenty of time to sort out what direction you think you need to go. Hope the best for you... 😊
@Spearman60
perhaps it is a good thing sometimes the most growth and change happens after a breakdown or problem ... perhaps you change and he ah-ha moment is coming you have put it out into the world you wanted a change
@toughTiger6481
Thought about you recently and thought I would see if you were still around here on 7 Cups. Hadn't seen you on here for a while and wondering how you are doing? I haven't been on here as much as I was over a month ago. You're last post said you were going to take a trip and maybe make some decisions on your situation. So... how is it going now? Hope you're doing well....😊
I played head games with my husband, I didn’t know how to deal with him. I always loved and believed in him through our dating, and engaged phase. That even got hard, once we were married the lies never stopped, and at this point I became aware that he had no intention of stopping. He is a narcissist, and so in love with himself, that he was painfully stupid at lying. I knew him better than he knew himself. He hated me for that, that is the point where I knew my marriage was over. I don’t want to start thinking about how long he has been hating me, it has been a few years i am sure. This past year was the worst, I watched my in-laws love and respect for me disappear as well.
true love means complete honesty and respect. Nothing less. I have a lot of special moments with my ex, we have shared a lot of secrets and heartache. He has also kept so much from me, on purpose, I don’t understand why. I know he has no self respect and love for himself. That doesn’t mean that as a spouse I can do it for him.
that is why I filed for divorce. I will no longer stand by his side, hold his hand and support him. He has failed me too many times. I have been his rock bottom multiple times, and it isn’t rock bottom enough. It’s time for him to do the work, on himself, by himself. Stop running his mouth, stay silent and listen. Be humble. I am the introvert, he is the extrovert, I though opposites attract.WRONG. So much can be learned about oneself, by listening and paying attention, by seeking out your higher power. I always struggled to maintain long term friendships my entire life, not sure why I thought I could handle a lifetime married!
@persistentWater9467
"Head games"... I'm growing wearing of it all the time. I get to where I just spend my time by myself with my hobbies or things I like to do. It doesn't seem to bother her that I do that and she's content just spending time with herself as well. There's little to no love shared between us now. I just give up trying anymore. We're just civil roommates now.
I'm finding myself wanting more out of marriage than what I can get from her. I honestly think she was meant to be a loner. My wife keeps a lot of things from me too.
How did your husband respond to you filing for divorce? How long was your marriage?
his response was evil, pure cruelty and complete betrayal. I’m afraid to even talk about it yet. Until this divorce is officially over. Then I will be speaking about it, on TED Talks, or I am going to write a book. My marriage lasted 6 years, we dated 5 years. I knew on my wedding night I was in for a bad ride. I had to beg and plead with him to leave the bar at closing time, after he made me leave our wedding reception to finish getting wasted before bar time., he passed out drunk in our honeymoon suite snoring so loud, I went to another bedroom and slept by myself. That was the start of nightmare, I didn’t think it could get worse, but it has. Now I don’t want to hear his voice or see his face ever again. Yet he keeps bugging me. That’s why I am outta here.
@persistentWater9467
I'm really sorry what you're going through. Sounds like you have it a lot worse than me. I hope there hasn't been any physical abuse with your relationship with him. What is "TED Talks?" I'm not familiar with that.
I hope you get through this okay. I'm guessing you're pretty young having an 11 year relationship with him. I'm sure you'll get pass all this eventually and you'll be able to move on with your life. I'm assuming there are no children between the two of you? I know it's tough to get through this, but things will get better eventually. 😊
TED talks!! If you have a smart phone, go to your App Store and get it. It is full of motivational speakers, every day people with creative ideas and thoughts. I love them so much, they keep me hopeful and help maintain the courage and strength I need to get through my painful situation. Another great book that I found for 97 cents at a junk shop, called The Friendship Factor, by Alan Loy McGinnis. This book is like a bible to me. I read it once, but I will never stop reading it, or referencing it again and again. It has such simple straightforward advice, it is almost as old as me!! Published in 1978!!
now that I finally have my husband out of my hair, my mind is finally clearing of the mental fog I have been in for 12 years. I haven’t been able to even read or retain anything that I have read for 12 years because of him. I have never been able to speak my mind openly, or even feel comfortable to share my feelings without having a crying attack. He has worked so diligently at breaking my spirit, my being, and he almost had me believing that I am as stupid as I look. I am smarter than he will ever give me credit for, which is a dam shame. Without our paths crossing, and our time together, I would have lived out the rest of my life, believing I wasn’t capable of surviving on my own. Now I can do it, because of the *** he has put me through, I have never fought harder in my life, for my freedom. This trauma has changed my path forward, in a good way, i will never stop fighting for equal rights for women of domestic violence, women in deadly situations with alcoholism and drug addicted partners. Personally I think the mental and verbal abuse far exceeds the physical abuse. A body that is taken care of, can heal from a beating. The mind, brain, confidence, self esteem, of a verbally abused person never stays the same as it was before the abuse started. Just like alcoholism, which is a DISEASE, there is no cure, and the damage done to every aspect of your being is permanent. Forever changed, never the same.
@persistentWater9467
You seem like a very intelligent person. Thanks for contributing to my thread here.
I did what you suggested and downloaded the TED app. I'm checking it out now.Sounds like you were in a pretty tough situation. I'm trying to get some sense of freedom from the day by day depression and anxiety I feel over my marriage. It's so frustrating at times. I need some things to focus on. I just need some friends... that would help. Our social life is limited due to the issues in our marriage. That's why I reach out like this in this forum. I desire and crave friendships and socialization, but she causes me limitations due to her attitude and the way she is.
I often wished I could get out of this marriage myself sometimes. But at this point, there's just no easy way out without creating more heartache and hardship in addition to what I'm already going through.
I have been wondering where you have been, I like talking to you. I still can’t figure out this app though. I never know if anyone’s reading my comments. I am by no means computer savvy. I don’t even have a computer anymore, my husband took it from me. I just use my iPhone, for now that will do. I’m am getting my interests back, I have always loved photography, so I do a lot of that. All my belongings are packed up right now, my collections of rocks, fossils, skulls, whatever beautiful things in nature that are gifted to me. Thank god spring is almost here, I saw my first robin back in the neighborhood, I love feeding my back yard birds, and stray cats. I hate having to give up my home, but this chapter in my life is over. 62 is not old, neither your wife or you should be suffering. I have come to accept that time apart, for a week, month , season, or a few years is what I need. Distance and time apart is a healthy step in a positive direction. My husband is attempting court mandated marriage counseling. This marriage is officially over now. I don’t find that appealing or attractive in any way. I am responsible for me, not him, or this marriage. None of this is easy, but I am doing it no matter what. I am so excited for my new job to start, and a whole summer by myself doing whatever I want to do!!!
@persistentWater9467
Thanks... I've been rather busy with all this bad weather happening around here. I don't really use the app much because it doesn't work well. I only use it to check if I got messages or not. Then I go to the computer.
It's good that you're focusing on things you like. Helps to get your mind off of what you're going through there. I'm trying to keep focused on being healthy both emotionally and mentally with my hobbies and things I enjoy. I'd like to take some time away to be alone so I can clear my head, and I may do that sometime soon.
Spending time with nature like you're doing is a good thing.... 😊 I need to do that too.
Try to keep yourself encouraged as much as you can. You seem like a good person. 😊
@persistentWater9467
Now where did you go?....😊
I am still hanging around, what kind of bad weather are you dealing with?? I hope it isn’t snow. I wish the weekend wasn’t over. Now back to business, the kind I really don’t want to deal with.
I’m around, enjoying a thunderstorm right now!!!!
I’m here!!
@persistentWater9467
No snow... we got a lot of wind and rain. Trees down everywhere and I had to check on a few bad weather situations.
Yeah, I'm tired of these weekends only lasting 8 hours... so it seems anyway. The older I get, the faster time seems to go by.
If you're only using the app, I don't know how you are able to get around in it. Every time I use it, it shuts down abruptly. I hope they get it fixed soon.
@persistentWater9467
Not sure why the "Reply" icon is not showing up in our responses to each other. Wondering if someone is discouraging us from replying to each other... LOL!
We've had a lot of bad weather around here. Hope it's not getting bad in your area.
So how's things going for you right now?
@persistentWater9467
Are you still using your phone app here? I can't get mine to work anymore. The app keeps crashing on me.
As a woman and wife; I am really horrified to hear this. I really do not know if she would change...Is this a new behavior? Is she like that with you or certain people or everyone? Does she see a therapist? I don't know, but this sounds like a really difficult and unhealthy situation. I really hope that you are able to find the answers you are looking for. I am sorry to hear that you are in this position.
@BookishWendy
She's been this way nearly all through our marriage. I just wasn't able to understand it as much in the early years. But it's gotten worse in the last few years. And she's like this with others. She just doesn't make friends easy and is more of a loner. It's a miracle our marriage has lasted as long as it has. Guess it's because I just don't want to go through all the miserable effort of a divorce.
She'll never see a therapist. She won't take any initiative or action to do anything about it, even though we've talked about it a lot in the past. She won't admit to her own mistakes or her shortcomings.
And yes, it is a very difficult and unhealthy situation. I'm miserable and have been for years. Finding answers just doesn't seem possible right now.
Thanks for your response....
@Spearman60 Hi there. I suggest you tow things. A book and an Youtube channel, one of the few channels I still get to watch on the platform:
The Human Magnet Syndrome: why we love people who hurt us, Ross Rosemberg.
Lisa A Romano.
I dont think staying with a narcissist is the best option. However, you call the shots.
Hope that helps.
Cheers.
After reading many of my comments describing my negative situation with my wife, I've had several suggest to me that I should leave her and get a divorce. However, that's not such an easy solution to my situation. Honestly, it's painful no matter what I do. If I stick it out, I'm stuck in this for the rest of my life. If I leave and get a divorce, then I'm wrecking and ripping apart my financial situation as well as hurting our family, kids and grand-kids.
I've had a few others here also express the same concerns in their own situations. Divorce isn't always an option for many due to reasons I've mentioned above and other reasons not mentioned. I just wished my wife would wake up and realize what she's doing to me. Even having numerous discussions and arguments about it in the past, she just doesn't get it.
For now, I've just withdrawn myself from the relationship and spend my time focused on me and trying to stay emotionally and mentally healthy. I've even focused on the few positive aspects of living in the same house with her. And what is that? Well, lets just say that her part of the household responsibilities is something I don't have to worry about while she's here.
So I'll have to just live with the idea that she just isn't going to contribute her part in the marriage in making it more of a loving home for the two of us. I just don't see it happening. Oh well...
@Spearman60 I was just wondering if you had tried a trial separation
@beachyone
Entertained the thought, but really hadn't acted on it, nor have I made it a suggestion to her. Wished I had an excuse to just take the camper and run away for a while...
@Spearman60 I imagine a getaway would definitely be refreshing to you!
I feel like I only know very little about narcissism - would a separation of some kind jolt her out of her normal routine?
Hi Spearman,
I've heard about intimacy anorexia and thought about your situation. It could be a long shot, but here you go:
https://www.healthline.com/health/relationships/intimacy-anorexia
Former narcissist here. It took a lot to change me. The person I cared about had to leave me, and actually, it took a lot for me to even open up to someone enough to not to try to manipulate them.
If I can offer a bit of insight, at least, from my point of view, is that the way I treated others was a problem with myself, not them. I always had an insecurity that I wasn't good enough, and that feeling made me want to please the people I wasn't good enough for (my parents). When faced with the situation of someone ELSE not treating me as well as I would try to treat my parents, I made them feel bad so that they would treat me better. It was the only form of love I knew. Make others feel bad, I get love. If I was made to feel bad, I give love.
There is also a bit of a power dynamic. For what it's worth, the way my mind worked was "if they feel smaller than me, they will never make me feel horrible." This is also why people like me never get into relationships they would allow themselves to feel vulnerable in. It makes it easier to distance themselves from empathizing with someone. It was, again, my type of love. Of course, in the end, I realized that I could never feel close with someone this way, much less love someone. ***, this wasn't love at all. This was a sick twisted game that gave one person an advantage over the other. And to be honest, I didn't even want love back then. I didn't think I deserved it.
What I realized was that I need to be just as vulnerable as the other person if I wanted anything real. I realized that I do want love. In order to do that, I had to value myself enough to want to look for a real partner. There was one big factor that made looking for a partner different from before: this person also had to be my "team member". I had to want to work with someone *as a team*. It took me a long time to get here. I didn't think I was worth anything so I sought out someone with my lowest expectations and threw them away after. It was all a reflection of me. And it was an awful thing to do. When I met someone I truly wanted to be with, and they left me, my whole world shook. I realized I needed someone. I also didn't know what was wrong with me. I took steps to figure it out, and here I am, with the knowledge that I was a huge narcissist.
Take this with a grain of salt, since I'm not a medical professional, but my guess is your wife probably doesn't even know how horrible she is. It took a lot to shake me from the world I grew up in. It's possible she will need something similar. If you're lucky though, talking about it enough with her might change a few things. But I also noticed that when I was dealing with another narcissist (after I had done a lot of healing), the biggest thing that changed them was listening to their anger. Listening to their pain. Not judge them despite every fibre of your being. Being forgiving and show them what *real* love is by example. This is EXTREMELY tough. And I feel like I was only able to do it because I was once also the same. For any sane person, I would suggest leaving. For someone who has worked with a therapist, I think things may change with a LOT of patience, unconditional love, forgiveness, and vulnerability.
Goodluck. I know it's a very sucky situation to be in :( She is definitely not happy with herself, but it isn't your burden to take. Make an informed decision and I hope things go the best they can.
@spicySalamander
Very interesting insights. Thanks for sharing. I would not assume that person of interest is a narcissist, I'm not sure it's the case, it could be a number of things. but let's assume that's the case. Based on my personal observations, to fix a narcissist is to break one down and rebuild from scratch giving lots of love and attention. Reparienting of sorts. Good therapists can do it.
@LostTurtle2
Thank you for your input. I assumed my insight would have been helpful since the title mentioned narcissism :) But yes, completely agree. Things like these would need to be changed on a fundamental level. It takes a lot from the person going through it and the person helping them.
@Spearman60
Hey,
I hope you're doing well.
I was in the same position a few years ago, and I think @yardcarrot makes a great point, you do need to look inward.
I literally became co-dependant on her and all she did was abuse me in every way you could imagine.
At 7cups though, we're by your side, if you need us but you do really need to think about you here.
In my scenario, it ended in separation which was sad because we have 4 kids together, and she blackmailed me when I left saying that if I left, I'd never see my kids again, she'd make sure they hated me etc but it turns out, that was just her reaction to her losing control.
Things have settled down now, I'm single and have no interest in relationships at all, I'm happy on my own building my own life, I see my kids daily and we get on better.
Your situation might not have to end in separation and divorce, I literally had no choice because I was at the end point mentally, I ended up mentally insane and barred from my children.
Please, PLEASE, don't let it get that far, YOU do what YOU need to do for YOU and what is best for YOU.
You are not alone my friend, people here have your back, we love you and we're here for you - those are the words someone said to me here when I came in your situation, and they made me cry harder than I ever have.
Men crying doesn't show weakness, it shows your human and have emotions, don't let anyone put that in your head.
You're worth it my friend and my inbox is open to you, should you need it.
@iCareUK
Thanks for your kind words. In recent years I'm realizing more and more than I can no longer be so codependent... that is, if I understand that term correctly. I'm tired of waiting on her to give love and affection when she isn't interested in giving it. I'm learning, gradually anyway, to just focus on me and trying to be more mentally and emotionally healthy. I'd rather not go through the pain and difficulty of a divorce. So I'm trying to cope with what I have to deal with here the best that I can.
As much as I appreciate this 7 Cups forum, I feel it's somewhat limited as far as encouragement and help. Seems the world has become so self centered anymore, that no one looks out for one another. I really don't have any good friends or people I consider close to. I wished I had a good local friend to talk to and connect with.
Sorry to hear what you went through. Sounds like you had it worse than I have it now. Thanks again for responding....😊