A bunch of bots
A couple of recent threads in different contexts have mentioned bots, and listeners who sound robotic. I tried six bots to see how they would respond to the same statement.
First up, Boris, a bot I once created for fun to illustrate how it feels to chat with someone who completely ignores everything you say. If you think Boris has any empathy, you're wrong—Boris completely ignores everything you say:
Charlie: Every time I go to the house I feel the fear again.
Boris: Hmmm...that must be hard. What is the most difficult part of it for you?
Next, Noni, chatting to my member account. Noni also ignored what I said, but Noni was the only bot of the six to give me advice!
Charlie: Every time I go to the house I feel the fear again.
Noni: Take a deep breath in... and then out... I'm here for you.
Then Sophia, the bot who introduces our therapy service, also chatting to my member account. Sophia ignored what I said and changed the subject:
Charlie: Every time I go to the house I feel the fear again.
Sophia: OK In your life now, do you feel like you have no support, a little support, or a lot of support?
Wysa, a "Compassionate AI chatbot for behavioral health", also ignored what I said and changed the subject:
Charlie: Every time I go to the house I feel the fear again.
Wysa: I'm sorry to hear that. This must be hard on you. Tell me, what's been happening since we last spoke?
Replika, "an AI friend that's always there for you", didn't even acknowledge that I'd said anything, and simply changed the subject:
Charlie: Every time I go to the house I feel the fear again.
Replika: What surprised you today?
And similarly Woebot, "ready to listen, 24/7", didn't even acknowledge that I'd said anything, and simply changed the subject:
Charlie: Every time I go to the house I feel the fear again.
Woebot: Want to play a quick word game?
(In all these chats there was some lead-in to set the scene before I made the statement about feeling fear. These bots' responses depended mostly on what part of their pre-programmed agenda they happened to have reached, and barely at all on what I said.)
The common characteristic of bots is that they don't listen. They ignore basic rules of listening that listeners on 7 Cups all learn in our initial training—like, "Repeat back to the person the facts that they have just shared." and "Repeat back expressed emotions."
Bots do sometimes have canned responses to certain keywords, even though this was not apparent in the examples above. I think it's remarkable that the word "fear" isn't a keyword that gets a canned response.
How would a human listener respond? Well, that's a matter of opinion. Different listeners have different styles, and not all our styles are close to the one we're all taught in our initial training. Human listeners certainly have the capability to reflect the things people tell us accurately, a capability that bots don't yet have:
Human: Going to the house scares you.
But human listeners sometimes choose not to use that capability when they feel there's something else more important they must do instead.
Some listeners follow a script too. It starts with asking if this is my first time here. It doesn't take long to glance at my profile to see that I am not a newbie.
Shortly after they suggest taking a step on my growth path. Again, my profile has shown I have done more than 2000 already. If I wanted to do a step on my growth path I would be doing that instead of a 1-1.
A little while later comes the unsolicited suggestion I use one of the therapists here.
Further in I might have said something about feeling really frustrated about being in bed or something. That gets met with "how does that make you feel" Ummmm, besides frustrated?
@AffyAvo I can see how that would be really frustrating.
I wanted to mention, as a brand new listener, that the bot that makes suggestions to listeners tells us to ask/say/copy-paste those exact things - is it your first time here? "I might refer you to a therapist" and the suggestion to ask if the member has tried steps on the growth path... I'd been using them, because like learning to drive, learning to work through all the steps in a listening session is overwhelming for me still. I really don't mean any offense by not having the wherewithal to remember to check a member's profile each time.
But you raise a really good point, as I become more comfortable with all the steps I need to take at the beginning of a listening session, checking the member's profile is a great idea. Unfortunately, none of the users I've chatted with so far have had a profile to check (I checked after the sessions were done to see if there was info I could have used during the sessions).
Thank you for pointing that out. I hadn't even considered that it might be offensive to some. :-S
@SteppingBackward It's ok to use those tips sometimes, but common sense needs to come first IMO. For members to have a profile picture, they have either had to get a certain number of points or just recently verified their email address. So asking if it's someone's first time to a guest or even a member without a profile picture is reasonable IMO. If I connect as a guest I don't take issue with the question.
People should be able to get a feel for the dynamic of a conversation better than a bot. If I'm in the middle of stating what's going on, I think it's really rude actually to interrupt to tell me I should try a therapist or a step on my growth path. Context is also really important. Think about this, while it may seem ridiculous written here, I wouldn't be surprised if it's happened:
Member: I have an appointment with a new therapist this week. I'm feeling really nervous about it as I had a bad experience in the past.
Listener: I think one of the 7 cups therapists could really help you with this issue.
Empathy fits in with this too. If someone is anxious and you already got the gist as to what's going on, they aren't in the middle of telling you what is making them anxious, suggesting utilizing the growth path can be beneficial. Even better if pointing to a specific aspect that falls within the growth path steps, like a mindfulness video. Again if it's not someone's first time asking them if they have tried it and what they got from it in the past shows more awareness than what a bot will.
On the other hand, if someone just told you something after appearing to be apprehensive about opening up or they seem really distraught and in the need to be heard right then, pushing them off to some aspect where you are not actually listening can feel rather dismissive.
RarelyCharlie's example could fit in with the issue too:
M: Every time I go to the house I feel the fear again.
[Noni gives prompt to ask about feelings]
L: How did you feel when that happened?
This example just shows the listener is a) not listening or b) listened to what I said but doesn't care to put any thought into how they respond.
Some of the listeners here can probably give way better guidance on this than me, but it boils down to listening first and responding as a human. Even if inexperienced, think before just copying the script - does it fit the situation?
@Integral - I think the way @AffyAvo put that is really well said - those tips can be helpful things to think about if you're feeling stuck in a conversation or want to see what other things you might try, but the common sense and context clues are important to use first/alongside to make sure that what you're pulling from those tips is actually sensible in that instance.
I think a lot of parts of listening become more natural feeling over time as you figure out what works for you and for your members and start to see things in common that might have worked or not worked in certain contexts and can apply in new ones. For me, I definitely don't have a script I use, but if I had to boil my listening style down to it's barest roots when talking to a new member, I tend to do the below (the same concepts apply with longer term members, but as we get to know each other better, we figure out what works best for our sessions):
1. Greet and lead into conversation topic (though with someone who seems to feel especially anxious about talking to someone, I might ask if they want to dive right in or if it would be helpful to chat more casually for a few minutes while they get more comfortable)
2. Validate (I am a big believer that before most other things has to come validation of the feelings/experiences/etc. - this can come in different forms, but things like "It's understandable to feel X" or "There's no right or wrong way to feel about Y - whatever you are feeling is okay, even if it's a confusing mix of things")
3. Empathize/support (this is core to the active listening model here)
4. Potentially help with problem solving (note: this isn't simply giving advice, and this isn't appropriate in all chats - many people need a space to vent and nothing more or are looking for someone to just be kind, but not to try to fix things. But if it is a wanted and helpful thing, I will often work on problem solving with my members - that might be asking what they've tried before or are thinking about trying, it could be brainstorming ideas together, it could mean walking through problem solving frameworks like helping them talk about the pros and cons and make a decision - all working towards the member feeling empowered to make the decision that feels right for them, not me telling them what to do which could be wrong and harmful at worst and even if it's helpful in the moment doesn't help them moving forward to learn to trust their ability to work through these things and make decisions)
5. Closing the chat and followup (focusing on giving warning that I'll need to sign out, offering an opportunity to talk again another time, asking if there's anything else that needs to be covered in our last few minutes, etc.)
If you are looking for more resources as you learn and grow in the role, there are some great resources in the listener forums that talk about common challenges and ways to potentially work on them with a member, you can reach out to a mentor or ask questions in the Listener Support Room (being careful not to break confidentiality rules, of course!), you could practice through mock chats with a mentor, and you are always welcome to post questions about listening in the forums.
@Anomalia Fantastic rundown of the basics, this is really useful! Thank you for taking the time to compose that, glad I've got this thread subscribed!
