Back 7 Cups: Part I of Making 7 Cups Sustainable
Weve been talking about different ways we can help make 7 cups sustainable. If you havent yet, please read this thread (please also read this thread if you have questions as they have likely been answered in that thread). The first step we want to take in this process is the Back 7 Cups initiative.
Anyone who wants to support our mission will be able to ‘back 7 cups with a monthly contribution. Well have system messages, a dedicated landing page, and emails that provide people with the opportunity to support 7 cups in this manner. People will still receive perks (see below) for backing 7 Cups, but the emphasis is on backing 7 cups and only secondarily on the perks.
At the same time, well be testing another option that can best be understood as 7 Cups Premium. This option emphasizes the perks primarily and backing 7 cups/supporting our mission as secondary.
We are testing out both options because we are not sure which one will work best. It might be that one option works best in some situations and the other works best in others.
The perks will be spelled out in more detail in the coming days. What follows is a high-level overview. When you back 7 cups, or upgrade to a premium account, youll unlock personalized paths to help you grow stronger, increase confidence, and develop stronger relationships. These paths are comprised of series, or packs, that focus on topics like: relationships, calm and strong, mind over mood, physical health, and life skills. It also unlocks a number of singles or discrete paths that are designed to help you overcome specific issues. Moreover, people that back or upgrade will also access to bi-weekly group conference calls with licensed psychologists on topics like depression, anxiety, mindfulness, stress, and relationships. Additionally, they will receive a monthly email from me and the ability to participate in a conference call with me every month. Ill share what Ive been thinking about in life, Ill discuss ways to overcome challenges, and Ill also provide a sneak peak into future developments here at 7 Cups. Finally, the person will also receive 2 sustainability icons for their profile and the profile of one other person they select. This indicates that it is a shared gift given to ensure that 7 Cups thrives for years and decades to come.
To clarify, listeners would also be very welcome to contribute. If they do not have a member account, then they would just receive the above perks, but they would not unlock the personalize paths. Thanks @RocketsMom for asking.
Our goal is that these options will help get us a clear trajectory of sustainability. If these do not work as well as we hope, then well need to further tweak them and potentially add additional perks or options. Well also soon be rolling out the 7 cups for organizations initiatives shortly as well. We already have a major university on board and we are working with several other non-profits.
Again, please read the other thread if you have questions. If you have questions that have not yet been answered yet, then please ask them here and Ill be happy to provide more details. We are planning on releasing this new update later this early next week. Ill keep you updated!
Thank you!
Hi Glen,
It was my understanding that 7cups wanted to get revenues in the the same way any mental health care platform/organization does, namely either via commercial or subsidized means.
The idea of premium accounts seems to be neither*. Has the aformentioned idea been fully let go or is there more to this premium account concept that is still under development/consideration or subject to expansion with demonstrable quality in mind?
Love to hear your thoughts on that,
-Debsim
* A paid subscription would be commercial. The idea of a premium account is more like a one time donation offering marginal perks, especially considering the core service 7cups offers, namely chats with listeners. Compared to for instance a paid account on Youtube, the quality of the core service doesn't actually go up.
@Debsimonara we'll be exploring several options. What I outlined above is our first go at this and we really hope it works. If it doesn't work as well as we hope, then we'll need to iterate on it. It'll be a process for us to figure it out. Stay tuned!
@GlenM Thanks for your deliberation on that.
However, you didn't address my slightly hidden message about quality in regards to finding revenues. I'm talking about listener quality by the way, not the technical quality of the site or that of the various bells and whistles implemented next to the chat function.
It would seem to me that if 7cups would be able to up the general quality of listeners and be able to objectively show the quality by indices, it would be much, much easier to find revenue of several kinds, including, but not limited to, endowments.
During my conversations with members of your staff and others in the community, I have found myself dumfounded as to the limited ideas I was offered on how to achieve this higher level of listener quality when ideas and concepts should be plentiful and their merit and attainability, both technically and recourse wise, of very high potential.
I most sincerely believe that if this concern is not tackled along with the discussion on how to gross sustainable revenue, the future of 7cups is more uncertain than it needs to be.
If you like to explore these ideas and concepts, feel free to drop me a line.
@Debsimonara
Hi! What are your ideas on ways to improve quality? we've come up with a few, but more is always helpful! thank you :)
@EvelyneRose
Hi Evelyne,
Thanks for taking an interest in this important topic. I will submit my ideas via another medium than this forum. There are some technical and policy challenges that come along with these concepts, and a forum simply isn't the right platform for elaborating on the total picture. It would simply be too extensive.
I have talked about it with Krink and we agreed to file this plan via the Suggestion Box
If you want to do a back and forth with me about these ideas, feel free to drop me a line via the chat. I'd welcome it.
Warm regards,
Debsim
@GlenM
It seems that many people are concerned about the "Premium Account" idea, and how members who cannot back 7 cups may feel they're left out or less important. I agree to these concerns, but if it is inevitable and necessary for 7 cups to survive, can we consider more flexibility in it?
Have you considered allowing more than one method to get a Premium Account? For example: a member can get it either by supporting financially as suggested, or by reaching a certain level of activity "cheers" in 7 cups, or by reaching a certain level in the their 7 cups path, etc..
why don't we give that chance? "If you want to get pay for it or work for it" sounds much better than "if you want to get it pay for it"
@LukaSilver86 I think the broader concerns about some being excluded is the key thing you are homing in on. We had some of these issues/concerns arise with the feed as well. Fortunately (and thankfully!) they did not seem to occur at anywhere near the rate that people initially feared. I think, overall, most everyone feels like the feed has been good and not something that has led to what was feared. I think it'll be the same with this process as well. I realize it can be a little anxiety provoking; I just ask that you hang in there with me as we figure it out. It'll be a process, but we'll get there and when we get to the other side it'll be a solution that works for everyone and also helps 7 cups be sustainable.
@GlenM--I agree. And, just a side note, I noticed people who had initially been against the feed (myself included) asking when it would be back up yesterday 
. Just another example of needing to give something a try before deciding it won't work.
@GlenM
Thanks for the reply Glen, while I do agree that we don't hear a lot of voices against the feed feature anymore, I think this example does not apply here. Many people who were against it are now using it happily, but there are many other people who do not use it at all. It is completely optional for everyone whether to use the feed feature or not, you don't have to pay money whether you want to use it or not. The premium account is optional too, but the options here are decided by whether you are willing to pay or not.
On the other hand, I think my suggestion encourages more activity on the website, which -I imagine- it's something any website would want to have. However it was just a suggestion, thank you so much for explaining :)
@LukaSilver86
The idea is to create an incentive for people to make donations. Nothing more. The perks that are offered have marginal benefits and the idea that such would create two camps is in my opinion highly exaggerated.
That there are certain 'levels' of participation on 7cups that many associate with status, is already a fact. I really don't see how this new feature would compromise the experience here if those don't either..
Just my two cents. :)
I am confused, I thought it was going to be tried without incentives first and just simply the donate button? I know a lot of members that want to give back simply just for what they already recieve.
@fluffyUnicorns84 Sorry - will try to clarify - in the above post I'm saying we are going to roll out 2 options. The first emphasizes back 7 cups, but still has benefits. The second emphasizes the benefits, but still has back 7 cups. We don't know what is going to work best so we just need to test and learn.
This looks like it'll be rolling out early next week. I'll keep you updated :)
@GlenM
I'm sorry Glen, I don't 100% understand the difference? Could you clarify?
@EvelyneRose, yes, for sure, let me outline it and also highlight what we discussed on the mentor call, because I think that is where the lack of clarity is coming in.
Overall, we are starting with the same plan framed in two different ways, because we need to test to see what works best. The basic plan as outlined above includes unlocking personalized paths, sustainability icons, monthly call/email from me, and educational groups with psychologists. The first way of framing this will focus on backing 7 cups for what we do. People that choose this option will "back 7 cups" but they'll also still get the perks outlined. The second way of framing this will focus on 7 Cups Premium. The focus here is on the perks outlined above with less emphasis on backing 7 cups. The options are the same. We just need to test to see what works best under certain conditions.
What we also talked about on the mentor call was another level of perks that would involve chat. We all agreed to first do the above test with no chat benefits first. The goal/hope is that this works and that we do not have to include any additional benefits. As we discussed, if the above doesn't work and we fall short (i.e., it doesn't look like 7 cups will generate enough income to be sustainable), then we'll need to revisit the idea and likely add additional perks.
I hope this clears things up!
@GlenM--thank you for explaining that. I think it is much more clear now :).
@GlenM Thank you for explaining it some more, Glen! I must admit that I got confused by your first post as well, but it is much clearer now. I have a few comments, which may seem a bit petty, but I want to point out a few things that might lead to the idea of a hierarchy, which we of course want to avoid.
1) I am not sure if I like the term "premium". It sounds like we are selling something, like someone would want to choose that option to upgrade, to get better service, to be better than the normal user/member. It sounds like a very competitive term to me. You mentioned the Samaritans in some of your posts, and there are even other organisations who have subscribers that pay on a monthly basis, and if we want to go into that direction, I'd personally wouldn't choose a term that sounds like better, upgraded, above the normal users. I'd choose something like "7 Cups Supporter", "Mission believer", 7 Cups Booster". So the focus stays on wanting to support 7 Cups, to make it sustainable, and not on being better, or upgraded. In some way we need to believe that 7 Cups is great the way it is, I believe it is, so people would most likely want to donate or subscribe to paying a certain amount of money each month without getting a lot of perks. I might be wrong, and we maybe need to turn to option three, but I am a positive person and I believe that we do is great!
2) I would love to see a donate button, an option to donate once without having to subscribe. There could be people out there who believe in our mission, have tried out the site but maybe don't need ongoing emotional support. There might be people who can't afford a subscription but want to donate a small amount when they can. There could be people who only need a one time vent, and loved the conversation, never signed up and were just a guest. A donate button on the front page, and maybe discretly after a chat has ended (in the pop up), might be a good idea.
3) I know this is probably something you have all thought about already. Our website is international, which means not only rich people use it, we have a lot of users from countries where the general income is a lot lower than in Western countries. A subscription that might seems little to us, can mean a whole month incomes for them. That is why I suggested a donate button, so everyone can contribute the way they want, and there is no pressure to pay a certain amount of money to support 7 Cups.
I love that we are thinking about ways to make 7 Cups sustainable, and I know that a lot of thought went into this! I am excited that we are starting to plan ahead, to make it last and striving, and grow. I am so grateful for being on this journey with everyone!
@MissZ - Excellent point about different values of money in different countries. I am all for sustainability and am even okay with having some small perks associated with donating (as long as they don't impact the value of the core services of 1-1 chat, chatroom, and forum), but wouldn't want something to be prohibitively expensive in some areas of the world. Thanks for bringing it up!
Also, I 100% agree about a 'Donate' button. I know the subscriptions make things much more sustainable because you know some portion of the income month to month rather than never knowing who will donate, but I could definitely see many people wanting to help out be not being able to do a subscription.
@MissZ
Excellent ideas, I fully agree with everything you said. :)
@MissZ thanks for feedback. Glad it is clear now! Okay, I'll address your points below.
1. Premium - when you go the back 7 cups route (when the main impulse is to support us and the secondary benefit is perks) or when you upgrade to a premium account you'll be known as a "sustaining member" or "sustaining listener" - a person that helps us reach sustainability. Premium will not be used on any person's profile. They'll have the sustainability icon and the title of sustaining member or sustaining listener.
2. Donate - this is very similar to the back 7 cups model. Same idea. The only difference is that this backing or donation is done on a monthly basis. I support a number of charities on a monthly basis because I believe in the cause. It is a higher overall cost for me, but I also know that it gives those agencies more stability and help planning. We need those things as well. The challenge with one-off donations is what some people call the "leaky bucket" problem. If we are dependent on 1x backings, then every month all of those donations will leak out and we'll have to refill the bucket again. It is really challenging - and it takes a lot longer - to get to a place of stability and sustainability with the one-off option. The aim is to start with the monthly sustaining membership/gift idea, because it will help us significantly more than the one-off backings. That doesn't mean we won't enable one-off gifts in the future at some point. We may, but, for now, we really need to focus on ways to bring long-term sustainability to 7 cups.
3. Subscription being too costly for folks in other parts of the world - I agree with this sentiment. I spent a lot of time thinking about this. This is how we came up with the idea of it being a shared backing or gift. When a person signs up to be a sustaining member - whether through backing or premium upgrade - they can choose one other person to also make a sustaining member or sustaining listener. For example, when I back 7 cups I can enter in your name along with my name and you will also be a sustaining member. Nobody will know that I put your name there and nobody will know whether or not you made the gift yourself or if someone made it on your behalf. In this way, my hope is that people with more resources (as you indicated, often a primary benefit of just being born in a wealthier country) will share their gift with someone wth less resources.
One last point - thanks for being so supportive, helpful, and encouraging in this process. We are out front on this and we are actively figuring it out, because we want 7 cups to be around for decades and decades to come. Having the space and support to figure it out from our community makes this a much more enriching and interesting process. I'm very curious to see what we all figure out :)
@GlenM Thank you very much for your reply! This really answered all questions I had and I really understand the thought-processes behind it all. I love that it will be called sustaining member and sustaining listener! I also understand why subscriptions are a lot easier to plan with, you have a stable flow of money coming in, instead of a more unstable and uncertain amount when it comes to one time donations. The shared gift is a really lovely idea, I am not sure if it would totally eliminate the problem with many people not being able to pay for a subscription, but it definitely will make a difference!
Again, thank you for your reply! This really seems like there has been put a lot of thought into, and I really think it is an important step for 7 Cups, and I love that we are planning ahead!
@GlenM, awesome! Thanks for organizing 7 cups and working toward keeping it going. I also liked MissZ's recommendation for a 1 time donate button. It would let people be a part of the financial backing in their own way. Best wishes with getting us sustainable.
Great ideas! I hope it goes smoothly and helps significantly!
Ok so I love 7 Cups of Tea. Let me just start with that. I love what it does and the communities that have been built here. So in general I'm not at all against 'backing' 7 Cups of Tea.
My one concern with giving money to this organisation is that it is a for profit. To me, that means, that I've no real over-view of how my contribution will then be used. How do I know that would then go to sustaining the organisation that I love and not end up being used to buy say a solid gold keyboard or something equally useless to me and what I'd like to promote.
Maybe a way of battling those concerns would be to publish how the money will be or has been spent? Just an idea.
@sociableSquare5593 I've been thinking along these same lines and am very comfortable with that idea. The only challenge I'm facing with is that we also have competitors that routinely behave in harmful ways towards us. So, at present, the challenge I need to solve is how to disclose how we spend any donated money while at the same time not putting us in a position where a competitor might try to use information to try to hurt us.
@GlenM
Thank you very much for responding and being honest about this. If I have an idea which might help in that process at all I will be sure to let you know. It seems like a hard balance to strike. Thank you for keeping us all in the loop as best as possible.
There must be other organisations facing this same exact issue. It might be interesting to see how they solve these problems.
I get that all companies need money to keep them going. Where I work, we have 1 banner ad, 1 sponorship and the option of donations. The incentives that we give are 'cosmetic' e.g. the option to have bigger display pictures or gifs or something. Everyone has access to the same help, though. I'm not so sure about 7 cups having premium accounts....with extra perks in the form of help/growth pathways. That seems a little unfair. Not only that, but I feel that it would be better to have more transparency...I made a post ages ago and someone slightly edited it. But it changed the meaning of the point I was making. I asked why was my post edited, I even asked for them to send me a link to the forum rules to make sure I was following them. I got no reply. I would be a bit iffy donating when there are moderators like that :/
@Holly92, thanks for the feedback. If you feel comfortable, can you share here or via PM with me where you work so I can check out how they have things setup? I really don't want to go the advertising route and sponsorship is kind of the initial step down that path. I can also understand you disagreeing with how we structure this. It'll be a tension and a balance that we'll need to figure out. The important thing is to be open to the process and for us all to be able to make a judgment based on the data.Overall, this is going to be a process - just like all things on 7 cups - and it'll take us time to figure it out.
Well I've been following this with much interest and have an unanswered direct question to Glen: as a for-profit entity, would you personally financially be able to receive funds from what people pay to support 7cups?
@intellectualGrapefruit4975 you seem to be suggesting that there is a difference between a for-profit and a non-profit here. When people back 7 cups or donate to a non-profit, that revenue is used to support the organization. Income generated from backing 7 cups and premium upgrades would help and would hopefully grow enough to cover the costs of the salaries for everyone on the team. That would be a wonderful situation. So, yes, in this instance, this income would also eventually help cover my salary. However, what you seem to also be wondering/asking is - could I just pocket this income? No, I could not do that and other organizations - whether they be for-profit or non-profit - also cannot do that. For further background here, I am paid very little for my work here at 7 cups (I'm the person in charge of paying people so this is my own decision). I can imagine someday in the future - likely years out if all goes well - that I'll be able to pay myself close to a market level rate for the amount of work that I do. My main goal here is for us to fulfill our mission. If, and when, 7 cups can support me at a higher level, then I'll take that step, but my commitment is to what we are doing and to our mission more than it is to me getting a paid a decent salary.
@GlenM, have you looked into crowdfunding options, such as setting up a Patreon account? 7 Cups is not quite "artists and creators", but if there is a tangible output, maybe there is a way.
@GlenM
Hey Glen!
I realise I'm a little late to the party but I'd like to pitch in my two cents about the idea of 'Premium' membership as well.
First of all, I think some fantastic discussion and good problem solving has come out of this thread - I really like the idea of a donate button for example.
However, I have one specific concern about this idea which I don't think anyone else has brought up yet.
It is my opinion that everyone on this site should have equal access to resources designed to support them, be it making a general request, accessing the forum or having 'access to bi-weekly group conference calls with licensed psychologists on topics like depression, anxiety, mindfulness, stress, and relationships.' Some of these 7 Cups Premium perks mean the access to support you have is dependent on your income and ability to afford the monthly fee. I don't think this is fair. I believed that our aim as a support site was to offer free help and guidance to people in need. While I totally appreciate our need to generate income - and I support ideas that allow us to do this, in my mind, making perks about the level of help you can access takes validity away from our aim and claim to be a free support site. I feel more appropriate perks would take the form of things such as: access to personalised thank you messages, your name on a page thanking you for your contribution to the site, ability to customise certain aspects of the site (I'm sure someone more tech savvy than me could expand on this idea) and perhaps earlier access to some site features.
@EtaAlpha--I just wanted to throw in my thoughts. I think you make some good points. The thing with the perks (for example, the biweekly calls) is that those are not currently available nor are there plans to make it available. To be honest, doing conference calls on certain topics with the whole community.....well, that would not be possible. I've thought a lot about this and about the level of support I wanted to provide for these changes as I am passionate about equal access to healthcare. However, I feel these "perks" do not actually limit access to services as the same services that are available now will still be available.
cc: @GlenM @Laura
