Book Discussion of Defending Jacob by William Landay

@adventurousBranch3786 I wish I could afford to hire someone to do stuff like this lol. I can handle basic tech stuff, but even that can be challenging.

Another question from the back of the book (trying to avoid major spoiler questions while others are reading, so more questions about specific plot points will be coming soon!):

"How do you think people could or should stop adolescent bullying?"

(I think this is a good question because it will also relate a bit to the next book we will read, Nineteen Minutes.)

@ReadBooks7. This is a hard one! The only thing I can think of would be for parents to be more involved in their kids lives. Talk with them about what’s going on in their lives and try to teach them not to bully but to talk things over with a parent or counselor.

@adventurousBranch3786 that is exactly what I was thinking. I think everything starts at home, so if parents are able to communicate about it, it will allow their kids to talk openly about it, whether they are the ones being bullied or the ones bullying. I think that teasing and some behaviors associated with bullying might be pretty common with kids, and if parents can say, "hey, you might not think of this as 'bullying,' but it is, or it could at least be really hurtful to another person," I think that could go a long way.

I also think that it is important for schools to be vocal about it and hold presentations and class lessons about it. Communication about what bullying is and why it should never be done will, in my opinion, only help the situation and help to prevent it. If kids feel like they have a safe place to talk about it, then maybe they will feel safe enough to tell someone if they are being bullied. Maybe even kids who are exhibiting the bullying behaviors will feel safe enough to say, "I have been behaving like this, and I did not realize it was considered bullying, and I want to make sure I do not do this again."

@ReadBooks7 That’s a good idea having classes and presentations in school may be helpful as well.

Hi everyone! I am going to do a big

*SPOILER ALERT*

on this post since I will be starting the more plot-related discussion questions.

If you have not yet finished the book, please do not read this post any further until you do.

*Spoiler alert*

Next discussion question from the back of the book:

"Do you believe Jacob is guilty?"

@ReadBooks7. Spoiler alert ‼️

I believe that Jacob is guilty.

*Spoiler alert*

@adventurousBranch3786 I completely agree. I did not want him to be guilty, but I think that he is, and I had to admit it by the end of the book.

When did you decide that he was, and why? (I have been really interested in discussing this part specifically!)

@ReadBooks7. Spoiler alert ‼️

I was having trouble deciding during the trial. It was made difficult because the father got rid of Jacob’s knife which very well may have been the weapon used in the crime. But there was still Jacob’s thumbprint on the victim! There was also Jacob’s “fantasy “ post with the exact details of the crime.

‘I initially got really confused when that man confessed. I wondered how someone would confess when Jacob’s thumbprint was on the victim. When it was revealed what happened with the confession I was still unsure. It all finally made sense to me after the family trip to Mexico. I felt sure after that that Jacob was guilty.

@adventurousBranch3786

*spoiler alert*

I think throughout the entire book up until the end, I wanted to believe that Jacob was not guilty, so I did. I think I was probably having the same sort of denial that Andy had, except, obviously, I am just an unbiased reader, not a family member. The evidence was potentially damning, but it could be explained as well. For instance, the fingerprint could have been left if he had checked on him (although, why would he not then call for help?). The story online could have been written by someone else (unlikely, though). I think I kept questioning his guilt or innocence, but I had decided that he did not do it, and then when the "confession" was made, I thought, okay, that proves it!

When it was revealed that the confession was not real, I had major doubts, but then I thought, Andy's father in prison doing what he did was not requested by Andy or Jacob, so it could have been done and had nothing to do with whether Jacob did it or not. It was simply done as a "protective" measure for his grandson (a very twisted protective measure).

However, after the family's trip and what happened there, I knew. There became no other explanation at that point. A second person met an ill fate in Jacob's presence within a year? Guilty. No question.

I think the author did an excellent job of taking us, the readers, on a journey through what it must have felt like for Andy.

Another question from the back of the book:

*Spoiler alert*

"Is Jacob a product of his upbringing? Do you think he is a violent person because his environment made him violent, or do you think he has had violent inclinations since birth?"

@ReadBooks7. . Spoiler alert

It sounded like he had violent inclinations from a very young age. It seems like he had a nice environment at home. His mother mentioned that “things “ started happening to other children around him from a youn age.

@adventurousBranch3786 I completely agree.

*Spoiler alert* Throughout the course of the book, I kept thinking (probably like Andy) that those incidents could be explained, since children do get hurt from playing and rough housing, but after the vacation event, this, too, became clear. Jacob was violent from a very young age. His environment seems to be as good or better as many people's, so I don't think anything was influencing or impacting him. I think he had natural tendencies towards violence, and I'm not sure if it was a genetic predisposition (this sounds most likely, if that is in fact scientifically possible) or just the way he was wired. His parents had a healthy, happy marriage. They were excellent parents. Something within him made him the way he was.

@ReadBooks7. Irl there was a famous case in Parkland Florida. The person who committed a horrible crime had come from a home without abuses. He had violent tendencies from a young age. It turned out that he was adopted. His birth mother and half sister were both violent and in jail!

@adventurousBranch3786 wow, that is fascinating. I did not know that was a real thing. I kind of assumed that the author would stick close to reality, just with the way he wrote and how level-headed the narrator (Andy) seems. I do find the nature versus nurture thing really interesting.

Another discussion question from the back of the book:

*Possible Spoiler Alert"

"How much of a factor did Jacob's age play into your sympathies for him or lack thereof? If Jacob were seventeen, would you view him differently? What about if he were nine?"

@ReadBooks7. Spoiler alert

‘During the trial his age did make him more sympathetic for me. I think it would have been the same even if he was 17. Nine years old would definitely have made him more sympathetic to me. I think by the end of the book even with his young age I was convinced that society needed to be protected from him!

@adventurousBranch3786 I have struggled a bit with this one. 9 years old for certain would have made me more sympathetic. 17, not as much. That is close enough to adulthood (although newer research suggests that the brain does not fully develop into full-fledged adulthood to around the age of 25). I think for me, it is less a matter of actual age and more a matter of if he knows right from wrong. I think 14 is way old enough to know right from wrong.

On the flip side, I have read a lot about true crime and psychology of people who commit atrocious acts, and I definitely am no expert, but I do feel a certain level of empathy (maybe not quite empathy, but I lack a better word) for people who have these horrible compulsions IF they are biologically driven. For instance, if there really is a "murder gene" as mentioned in the book, and people are driven to do certain things, I in no way excuse that, but I can have some sort of empathy for them as I imagine it is a terrible way to have to live. I feel much, much, much more empathy for victims, of course. I guess I am just saying that I have some sort of compassion towards most persons, unless they are just purely evil and deriving some sort of satisfaction out of horrible things--zero compassion there.

I think that Jacob is an extremely troubled individual, and his age is not what makes me empathetic towards him. I think it is the fact that he has something so terribly wrong with him that provides him the inclinations to commit violent acts that makes me feel a little bit of compassion for him. However, I look at his father, Andy, who allegedly has the same genetic predispositions and yet is a well-functioning, compassionate person who has never really hurt anyone, at least not on purpose. That being the case, I think Jacob is responsible for his behavior and should have done more to prevent himself from doing these things. This sort of brings me back around to the question, though, because his age likely prevented him from being able to verbalize whatever he was feeling inside and therefore increased the likelihood of him acting out. So, that does make me feel more empathy specifically because of his age.

What I like about this book is that there are no easy answers, and nothing is purely black and white. Life is messy, and there are a lot of gray areas, and I think the book illustrates that.

I completely forgot the *spoiler alert*

@ReadBooks7 The book was very complicated and well written!

@adventurousBranch3786 I agree. I need to see if there are more written by this author. The book is just excellent.

Another question from the discussion questions at the back of the book:

*Possible spoiler alert*

"Do you think Neal Logiudice acts ethically in this novel? What about Andy?"

@ReadBooks7. Andy didn’t act ethically to me since he destroyed potential evidence in the case. I mean it wasn’t ethical in terms of the law. It’s really hard to say if it ethical in terms of what a parent would do for a child. There are probably many parents who would do the same for their child.

With Neil I can’t remember if he did anything unethical. I think that I was more focused on Andy. I try to think about it some more .

@adventurousBranch3786 I agree with everything you have written. I cannot really think of anything that Neal did that was unethical. I think Andy was unhappy with some of his questions, but I do not think he said or did anything wrong. If anything, his concern over whether or not Andy should have excused himself from the case sooner would be the ethical approach, if the concern was genuine and for the right reasons.

Andy likely did what many or most parents would do, and you make a great point about it not being ethical in overall terms but defining the ethical implications becoming more difficult when discussing a parent's role. This book is so great for these questions because it is so thought provoking.

The last two discussion questions from the back of the book follow.

*Spoiler alert*

More space for a *spoiler alert**

"What is the most damning piece of evidence against Jacob? Is there anything that you felt exonerated him?"

"If Jacob hadn't been accused, how do you think his life would have turned out? What kind of a man do you think he would grow up to be?"

@ReadBooks7. Spoiler alert

I thought that the most damaging piece of evidence was his thumbprint on the victim’s clothes. It placed him at the crime. Jacob did give the excuse that he checked on the victim. I know he said he felt frightened and left the scene. I can relate to feeling frightened but I wondered why he wouldn’t have at least called 911 after leaving the scene.

The other man’s confession seemed to exonerate him at first to me. But even then I still felt a somewhat suspicious of Jacob after the confession.

‘It sounded like Jacob had violent tendencies from childhood. After what happened in Mexico I didn’t feel much hope for his future.

@adventurousBranch3786

*spoiler alert*

the fingerprint was definitely, to me, the evidence that made it hard to look past. I can understand a kid being scared finding someone, but I think most, if not all, would summon help some way if they truly did simply stumble upon the person. The confession exonerated Jacob for a few minutes, until I read further and realized, that was set up and not true. I still wanted to believe it was true, though, and did, but once the girl disappeared, that was it. I knew, no doubt, he'd done it. I definitely don't think he would have had a typical or productive future. His violent childhood tendencies had quickly turned to murder, twice. I think, unfortunately, it would have continued. It's a bit chilling to think about how many others might have been hurt.

One final question that I have about the book:

*Big spoiler alert, as this question discusses the ending*

**Another spoiler alert notification just because**

**And one more, why not**

What did you think of the ending? What do you think Jacob's mother's intentions were? What do you think about what happened?

@ReadBooks7. Spoiler alert ‼️

I was very surprised 😯 by the ending. I thought that Jacob’s mother came to a similar conclusion about who he was as we did here. I thought that she did it to stop him from hurting anyone else. It took me by surprise and made for a very dramatic ending to the book!

There was a famous case irl where a family member recognized his brother’s writing (the uni bomber). He called the FBI to report him. That sounds more like something I could do. Although I believe she did it to protect others from her son. I’m not sure that I could do what Jacob’s mother did.

@adventurousBranch3786

*spoiler alert*

I was absolutely stunned by the ending. I do not think I could do that, and I do not think that most people could/would. I am not blaming her for her actions, though. I think that Laurie was struggling a lot internally and did not have a healthy place in which to share her fears and feelings. I do not think she was in her right mind when she did what she did. Her taking off her seatbelt indicates to me that she was struggling with some thoughts of her own (I will not mention the specific word so as not to trigger). I think her heart was in the right place but that her decision came from a completely skewed and unhealthy frame of mind. She was no longer thinking clearly or in a rational or level place. She was horrified by her son's actions, scared, and likely extremely depressed. I personally do not think she should be charged with anything. I think that she should be provided help. It does not mean that what she did is okay, it just means that I think she is not fully responsible for her actions at the time--the legal definition of insanity. Instead of getting her son some serious counseling and/or alerting the authorities to the fact that she thinks he committed both crimes, she decided on a different "solution," and it is not a solution that a person who is thinking clearly and functionally would come to.

@ReadBooks7. It’s true . I think that she was completely overwhelmed and unable to think rationally about her actions.

@adventurousBranch3786 yes, completely overwhelmed is definitely an accurate description.

@ReadBooks7. I saw a question in the internet.

Do you believe that the subject of bullying was a main aspect or incidental to this story?

@adventurousBranch3786 this is a great question. I think that the author took great care in making bullying an important part of the story while maintaining that bullying is not at all okay but that a bully does not deserve to be murdered. I do not think that it was either the main focus or incidental. I think it was an integral part of the story and explains why Jacob acted the way he did without justifying his actions. The author shows a lot of grace, skill, and integrity in his treatment of the subject, in my opinion.

@ReadBooks7. I think that is a good explanation. Bullying was an important aspect to the story but there were many other areas examined in this book. I agree that bullying does not deserve such an extreme punishment. I actually felt kinda sorry for the bully in this case. I thought his crime didn’t fit with his punishment.

@adventurousBranch3786 the punishment definitely did not fit the crime. I think often, bullies have problems of their own and are taking them out on others, so the best thing to do is to alert someone in a position of authority so that the bully can be held accountable but also receive the help they need so that they will stop lashing out and hurting others. I am not trying to place the responsibility solely on the victim of bullying, just stating that there are other ways to handle the problem besides violence.

Hi everyone! I know we have a few people who expressed interest in the book, and a few others who were participating silently. I have enjoyed discussing the book very much!

Our next book selection is Nineteen Minutes by Jodi Picoult. We preselected this when choosing the current book based on recommendations from adventurousBranch (thank you!!).

When is a good time to begin reading the next book?

Thank you all!

@ReadBooks7. I’m ready to start 😊

@adventurousBranch3786 sounds great! I will start a new thread :)