Modding Issue.
Hi,
Don’t like to write a grumbly post about 7cups because I have gained so much from it, helping me through the here and now, but also teaching me life lessons.
Didn’t feel this could be ignored though, as it’s such a massive problem.
I am aware that recently the way of commodding has changed, to member mods and teen-listener mods. I know I am not the only person who has had some real issues with this.
Sometimes, in teen member rooms, we will not see a mod at all for 4hrs or more. This allows many members to go unsupported, as mods provide stability of support when the rooms are quiet. Before, we had the room supporter request form, is there a way to bring this back into the chatroom guidelines again to at least attempt to help this issue?
But worse, many incidents are happening, that break 7cups guidelines. People in crisis refusing to log off, triggering one person, or a whole room. People sharing offsite contact. People using the wrong rooms for the wrong purposes. To name a few.
As members noticing this, we do all we can, filling out the emergency mod form, pmming the mod if they have been seen at all on a shift. TCR has turned into a place for sharing offsite contact, for conflict. Any members trying to put in polite reminders get attacked for that – not just at the time, but if meeting the member again in the same or a different room, they are already against you. 7cups is meant to be a place for support. It’s turned into a place that is daunting, and support feels so non existent. The direct bullying, lack of support increases anxiety, fear, and lowers self-worth.
It seems the focus of member mods even when there is no teen-listener mod is always the adult rooms. We’ve been told that they are more...interesting... but why does that excuse the things that are happening on the teenie side?
Please can someone recognise that things are not working? We are asked to fill out forms, asked to do all these things but what is the point if this makes no difference either?
To the admins, please listen. Things can’t stay the same.
To members and listeners, do you have anything to add? What's going well, what isn't going well, or ideas to solve?
@TayTayy @CommunityModAaron (had conversation about this with these two lovely people)
@7cupscommunity @ASilentObserver @Heather225 (didn't know which leaders to tag)
@CalmCoral Hello Coral, Thank you for reaching out and sharing this terrible situation with us. My apologies for all discomfort and inconvenience to you and all fellow teens due to the above issues of unmodded hours, emergencies not addressed and offsite sharing and conflicts taking place in the room.
I understand and can relate to how it disrupts the support environment of the community. I will work with the team to ensure things stay on track and all support and help all received. Tay gave me some feedback too 1-1 and I took a note of them as well and I am working on addressing them.
Reviving the room support request form sounds like a good idea but in the past, it got inactive as room supporters are not available 24/7 like ComMod Team. So, we can figure out a way that ensures no requests get missed and have a better response rate.
Apart from that, I would encourage you all to do two things:
1. Use Emergency Forms to report any emergency situation. And if at any point it is missed and not addressed within time, please do message me and let me know. It will help us closely track and ensure all reports are addressed.
2. And report all offsites and conflict behavior through this report form: Click here to bookmark/save and again welcome to follow up with me on this within 48-72 hours from report submission to check if the report is processed or not.
I appreciate your presence, support, and care for the community and chatrooms. We can make things better together and we are all in this together.
@ASilentObserver
Thank you so much for acknowledging our concerns and reviewing what is going on, and for your understanding.
Will continue to report incidents, just sometimes feels a bit pointless.
Thank you,
~Coral
@CalmCoral I can imagine how pointless it can feel if not getting addressed on time but I appreciate your and everyone's efforts to bring these concerns to light and continue to report. We will ensure to address all of it one by one and make things better for all of us.
@ASilentObserver
Another example, from today actually, a mod listened to the mod form, and suggested a member in crisis reached out for support, but member stayed for over half an hour still in crisis and nothing was done? I'm afraid to go into the rooms when it's like that.
@CalmCoral I am sorry to hear that Coral. I understand how it can be triggering for the rest of the participants. I checked logs and it shows it got addressed by a community mod. Please let me know if there are more concerns to it 1-1. You can pm me at 7cups.com/@ASilentObserver
@ASilentObserver
Yet again another member in crisis, encouraged to stay by another member.
Both me and another member posted the crisis resources, reminded of guidelines, as did mod.
But mod did not stay to check convo didn't continue etc. So room stayed the same.
Me and the other member were then targeted. So what are we actually meant to do? Sit and watch it happen feeling triggered and needing support that's within the guidelines ourselves? Or remind of guidelines, reach out to mods and be targeted?
There is no way to do it right. It’s never-ending. You remind of rules and you are attacked, you don’t remind of rules and you are in a shitty situation. Half the members it seems think the rules don’t apply to them for some reason or another, there’s always an excuse. And so we are the bad people for trying to keep the rooms safe and appropriate. I get ganged up on and attacked for doing the right thing but if I don’t do the right thing the next time it seems there’s the same outcome.
What do I do? What does every member who experiences this same issue do?
@TayTayy @CalmCoral
This is not acceptable, we're trained directly not to take crisis chats, and the Terms of Service themselves apply that same behavior to group support chatrooms and forums. As volunteer moderators we are also required to utilize our warning system after trying to de-escalate the scenario and get the member offline. Community Moderators have a lot of rooms to be observing, with sometimes two emergencies happening at a single time in different rooms, so it can be difficult. From what I can see here though, it sounds like you feel as if they are ignoring the situation? I re-looked over the entire moderator guide that is public to me, and this shouldn't be happening. Nor should anyone feel unsupportive. It seems like if feedback isn't working, and nobody is hearing anyone out, do you have the Mod Review Report form? I can send it over to you. I'm not how regularly it's looked at, but I know they will eventually handle all incoming reports.
@HopefulBambi
I have filled out the mod review form multiple times, there is never any change or improvement. Nothing ever seems to work. It is beginning to feel like a lost cause.
@TayTayy
I'm sorry that there isn't anything I can do to help you escalate this concern further or see what they are doing behind the scenes regarding the forms you've filled out. I know just saying that means nothing, and I am sure it's frustrating that I cannot offer more. I know that you have put a lot of good suggestions in this forum thread for community moderators, management/admin team themselves, scheduling, as well as asking for feedback on your ideas that you've already submitted. My PMs are always open, though, if you have any way that I as a volunteer moderator can improve. I hate to see scenarios like this unfold. Hopefully other volunteer moderators could follow suit and pick up any pieces they see left behind, as this is a huge joint team effort.
@ASilentObserver
From the point I began giving feedback to now, things have to changed in the slightest. Filling out the report forms has not sparked any sort of change either. I would also like to point out that it is a huge pattern, the times where issues occur almost always happen on specific mods’ shifts. And those are the same times we do not see the mods. There is a handful that are rarely or never active in teen rooms. I’ve seen one conflict last for almost two hours even though we have pm’d the mod on shift, filled out several mod requests and tried to call them into the room. I feel there needs to be some sort of action taken, or something implemented to make sure this is taken care of. @CalmCoral and I have discussed this with mods together on multiple occasions now but excuses are always made and we have been dismissed. One common one is that adult side needs a lot of attention and there’s too many rooms a mod needs to watch over. If this is the case maybe having double coverage for more than 8 or less hours a day is not a bad idea. It not only makes it easier for the mods, but it better ensures teen safety, which we are in serious lack of at the moment. I’ve suggested more LT mod hours several times now and I know others have too, but I haven’t received any feedback on the idea. Im wondering if you or @Heather225 would be willing to express your thoughts on the idea of more LT mod hours? It seems like something mods and teens could all benefit from but considering no changes have been made I am assuming you guys have a reason for that that I am not aware of?
@TayTayy
CommunityModLou is asking for people to provide feedback about mods right here https://www.7cups.com/forum/GroupSupport_168/CommunityModeratorsLounge_2143/CommunityModFeedbackForm_285389/
If you have time, I hope you'll fill it out. Maybe it will help.
@GoldenNest2727
I no longer take part in filling out those types of forms. As mentioned in my mini essay, zero changes are ever made when forms are filled out. But thank you for the suggestion.
I’m just going to tag some other members I’ve seen express their concerns about these types of issues in case they want to share their feedback as well.
@selflessSpruce1515 @StarryMilkywaySystem @ALeXaNdEr0712
@TayTayy
Thank you so much for tagging me here, Tay. ❤️ I think it was definitely a good idea to create a space where we all can culminate our concerns about certain aspects of 7 Cups, especially with regards to modding.
One issue that definitely needs to be addressed is how promptly and effectively conflicts are resolved and/or dispersed. Most recently, I have noticed how there are moments of tension whenever potentially-triggering or controversial topics are brought into any conversation. There is always the option of using the personal mute button whenever a user is uncomfortable or is triggered by a specific user, but this does not prevent conflicts from arising in group chats. From what I have seen, community moderators have made sure to bring up the fact that members and listeners alike should use their personal mutes. However, it seems like moderators are not actually working to resolve the conflict or to persuade everyone involved to move on from the conflicting topic.
This issue occurs for many reasons, and this does not apply to any specific community moderator or chatroom moderator– I want to emphasize that this is general feedback based on what I have witnessed. Lately, there has not been much observation over the group chats on the community moderator's part. Just as Tay has mentioned, this has to do with limited LT mod hours. As a result, various issues have been left unresolved, such as conflicts, harassment, suspected trolling activity, and more. Without moderator intervention, members and/or listeners are left to resolve these issues for themselves, which can lead to users being triggered by the increased tension and intense arguments, as well as feelings of resentment when conflicts are not resolved properly (as in by an "authority-like" figure, which in this case is the community moderator).
A counterargument to my feedback can be the fact that there are many rooms that need to be moderated at a time, on the teen and adult sides alike. I understand this claim, but there is one thing to keep in mind– moderators act as a kind of mediator whenever conflicts arise, or just as a comfort figure to ensure that everyone feels safe even when there are no conflicts. Yes, moderators are humans too, and cannot be in more than one place at a single moment. However, this is why I, as well as many other members, am advocating for more moderating hours on the part of LT moderators to ensure that there will be more coverage, and to send the message to members (specifically) that the group chats are a safe and positive environment.
I hope that this feedback, as well as an acknowledgement of the opposing views to my main points, will be the spark for change within the group chats. We all deserve to feel safe in the space that many of us spend a majority of our days in, and increased community moderator coverage would make such a difference. This is the way to encourage some lasting and positive impressions in our group chats, and everyone need to play their part to be there for each other. ❤️
Tagging some members and listeners who I know would give constructive feedback on this topic:
@mytwistedsoul @Sunisshiningandsoareyou @TryingTBH2021 @tidyHickory3283 @GoldenNest2727
@selflessSpruce1515
thanks for the tag Spucie and thanks for believing that I can do the job of providing constructive feedback for the problem we are facing in TCR.
well for starters I am a hooman bean of few words, I can't tell anything in detail or rather suggest or anything really by not confusing the audience but let's try yeah? someone who understands it an explain to someone who is confused xD
anywho enough with the nonsense
so yeah the mods are good when they are present but recently sometimes or I can say most of the times they are not present like we won't even know they were there until it's time for them to go and they post a bye message sometimes they don't even do that. Because of this many conflicts, many things which are considered 'illegal' (Sorry I had to 👀 lol) are happening in TCR. Feelings are hurt, people in vulnerable times who deserve support are not given it, members harass/bully/attack other members and go without being told off about it by mods (here members as in community members not the 'members' and 'listeners' division members), members (expecially the new ones) calls us names and we feel attacked and because of what? because we try to be nice and tell them the rights and wrongs on 7 Cups because the mods were not there to do it (speaking from personal experience). In times like this I wonder 'is TCR really a safe space now?'
sometimes when I see a mod I try to start a convo so that they stay here and don't poof but I don't get a reply and it's like they never came here like seriously? this whole load of horse shit needs to stop
they say that they will be in LCR or in adult side if we need anything but when we call for them or pm them there is no reply. nope nothing
now I am not saying that this is the case for *every single* mod but yeah this happens alot. idk what changed but please it's my request stop this
I have even stopped going to TCR as much as I used to because I think any second a rude member will pop out and ruin my day
the mods have stopped paying attention to TCR and started paying more attention to LCR and adult side like please TCR is as much as important as LCR and adult side is. Treat everyone equally
I know the mods are humans too and they can only do so much at the same time but atleast equally divide time or time to time check the rooms as well as your pms
*sighs* *wipes sweat*
I feel like I just said a dumped a load of shit above but it is what it is :')
now I won't go back up and reread for mistakes or typos or anything because I know I will delete everything after seeing the negative shit I have written (I can't stand saying bad about other because like it's no fun yk) because like I didn't take joy in writing what I wrote so yeah. And I feel like I completely contradicted my earlier statement about how I am a hooman bean of few words but lol it's true.
Peace out ✌
@tidyHickory3283
well shit this must be the longest forum I have ever written smh 😀
@tidyHickory3283
It was eloquently stated and meaningful, tidyHickory. I have to say, I'm surprised that the teen chatrooms aren't more heavily modded.
@tidyHickory3282
It made sense to me 😅 and the gif at the end made me laugh so much harder than i should have xD. I started calling TCR “Teen Conflict Room” as a joke but the sad part is it’s not even a joke it’s a fact. Maybe it’s just me, but I feel like new and old members alike with begin to attack and bully you for a simple, polite rule reminder. And then we get called “mini mods” and told off even if we are right, even if the person we gave the reminder to knows we are right, because we are not a mod
. Neither TCR or SR feels safe anymore, and it gets especially bad at certain times. I’ve been attacked, harassed, insulted, told to do awful things to myself, threatened, had people sexually harass me, been the target of homophobic/transphobic comments, and had people i didn’t even know come in and go off about how awful i am when I’m not even in a room. Like I walk in a room and all of a sudden there’s a “bash Tay” session. And mods are usually nowhere to be found, so I have taken ss and sent them to a com mod so that if it happens again they are aware and will hopefully keep an eye out. But it’s like they are never anywhere to be found most of the time. The only times I feel there’s even the slightest amount of safety and comfort is when there is an LT mod on shift.
I agree, some mods are great. And as long as they are consistently present in teen rooms, almost all are. But I can only think of a few (that aren’t LT mods) who are consistently active during their shifts. Ive went up to four hours without seeing a mod a single time and watched all sorts of huge community guideline violations happening. And if I dare to send a reminder I am attacked.
I also agree, writing all of this honestly sucks. I remember a time when all com mods spent time with us during their shifts, and they were absolutely amazing. It felt so much safer. I don’t know what happened but at this point I feel like I am just begging to have something done to make sure the teens have moderators available and accessible 24/7 like the adults get. We matter just as much, we need it just as much. This isn’t about any disrespect, it’s just about
lol i pressed enter too soon, i was saying, it’s just about trying to have a sense of safety and security that is currently lacking. I do appreciate the com mods, and will be the first to admit, I do not think I could do that job. But they chose to take it on, and it’s not fair to us that our spaces and unsafe and uncomfortable because we don’t have the mod coverage necessary.
@TayTayy
lol the early press enter thing happens with me soo many times smh almost all the times lol
And yeah I agree we get called mini mods and other stuff too
(I got called something few days ago and it seriously disturbed me however I chose to ignite it and am not mentioning what I got called cause it could trigger someone)
@tidyHickory3283
Ive been called some ‘interesting’ names as well, and have had a lot of ‘interesting’ things said to me. Everything in group chats at this point is basically like you’re damned if you do and you’re damned if you don’t. It’s impossible
@TayTayy
lol good to know it made sense to you xD and yeah when I was searching gifs for the peace out I saw this one and thought why not make people smile in this serious forum like fun should be everyone am I right or am I right 😛
And yup I completely agree with you abt the TCR being a teen conflict room cause these days it seems like it :(
@TayTayy
loo true and also in my previous post it’s ignore not ignite xD
@selflessSpruce1515 Thanks for the tag Spruce. I have to say there isn't much I can add but I totally agree with you and the others here. I guess I'm alittle surprised - I had hoped that the teen rooms were more secure and safer for all of you. At the same time I've seen a number of people - both teens and adults comment that there seems to be alot of favoritism going on with the mods - which in my opinion is wrong. The mods are supposed to be there to keep everyone safe - not just a select few.
I have recently discovered that it can be really hard to get a hold of a mod sometimes which is both frustrating and disheartening. I saw @TayTayy mention that the com mods are paid and I realize that with any job there can be times when people might not be able to show up - appointments or sickness. I wonder if there could be volunteers that could step up in those situations? An atl maybe? Since they're vetted alittle more the most. Of course it would also have to be someone that genuinely values their time here so they hopefully would be impartial with who's doing what. Or maybe they could implement report card type thing that mods would be graded on their performance in the chat rooms? Or someone to do surprise inspections - of course this would only work if the person or people are anonymous in their role and there again they would have to be impartial to who is in the rooms
I really hope that things get worked out with this because everyone should have a safe space to talk without fear of trolls and abusive triggering behavior
@selflessSpruce1515,
Can't add much, I totally agree with you.
Well, maybe... Could mods have another tool to help them mediate conflict? Something like a Refer button but instead of sending them to crisis resources, to some reminders to be kind and respectful.
Or, even... A timeout? Like, if enough members "refer" this user, then they get some ban of five to ten minutes. This way they can distance themselves from the specific chatroom, and the mod can contact each party and address the issue. There's no need for a super-detailed "you did ABC wrong" explanation, it can be automated through some message scripts.
Yeah, this is a rough idea (I should sleep) and it's a lot more IT-related, but if you can understand and help me articulate it better, then please do, I'd appreciate it.
What are your thoughts, Spruce? Thank you for tagging me btw
@TryingTBH2021
An automated timeout after so many refs/reports is a good idea. I believe it's something that could be programmed in.
@TryingTBH2021 @GoldenNest2727
The only issue I see with this is, people refer for no reason, false reports are made all the time. If everyone knew all they have to do to get someone they don’t like out of the rooms is continuously refer them or report them over and over, then it would be heavily taken advantage of. Especially with the issues we have with cliques, conflict that leads to grudges and simple dislike for between members.
@TayTayy,
Hm, yes. I didn't consider that. Even if it takes, say 70% of users in the room "referring" to "timeout", of course cliques would be a problem. Then, maybe, it'd be good to a add a second filter of sorts, like the Mod-in-turn approval.
How would it look like, then? If programmed, it'd be done through buttons for users and pop-ups for Mods. The banned user would see a timer much like the waiting for a listener one.
I would love to discuss the details of this idea, because it'd be faster to mediate conflict, I think.
@TryingTBH2021
I’m not really sure how all of it would work. Maybe some sort of protective measures for an idea like that could be put into place but all I really see is people receiving unfair consequences because of popularity statuses.
It’s a good idea in theory though. and maybe something you could bring up to admin if you’d like.
@CalmCoral I totally agree with this post. Not jsut to mention the issues with off site and other issues but full on violent members. There have been members cursing me out attacking me and trying to force me to report. Not to mention that the member was a older member I used to talk to. I figured this out soon into that convo and instead of a mod coming on with many many requests and names being said no one came. Absolutely no one. Eventually near the end a teen mod came on to help that situation but couldn’t do anything besides give warnings.
selflessSpruce1515, I appreciate the tag, because I certainly care about the chatrooms, but I don't think I have a fantastic answer. I do know that within the past year, Heather offered a service of helping to mediate issues/resolve conflict between people on here (can't remember full details), and it just wasn't used, so I believe it has been scraped. The leadership assumed that it wasn't needed and that things were going well in the chatrooms, or at least that people were satisfied with the options open to them, such as using the mute button or the Emergency Mod form.
Also, sometimes it might seem like nothing is being done, but we really have no idea what's happening behind-the-scenes. Maybe the mod is being retrained. Maybe the mod had a good answer for why they acted as they did. Maybe the offender was assigned behavior points. You really can't know.
I personally don't see why more people don't use the mute button when needed. The reality is that we're coming from all walks of life, all over the world. This makes us stronger as a community, but it also means that there's bound to be misunderstandings/miscommunication at times. Some people come to 7 Cups when they're upset, feeling sensitive, and are more likely to get upset and lash out. Try not to take it personally. It's good to express empathy, use active listening skills, and engage in deescalation, but sometimes the other person just isn't having it. When that happens, use your mute button, so you can better focus on engaging with those who lift you up and enrich your experience at 7 Cups.
Us Members also need to do our part, by becoming Room Supporters and Discussion Leaders, and by mentioning the supportive behavior that we see in the room from time to time. Positive feedback makes a big difference, in my opinion.
I wish I had a magical solution for you teens, because 7 Cups should be your safe haven. I hope it is more often than not.
@GoldenNest2727
I can understand your points here, but one thing I want to point out is that no, we don’t know what’s happening behind the scenes. But when the same issues with the same people are coming up time and time again, it’s clear that whatever is happening, if anything, isn’t effective and further action needs to be taken.
As for the mediation thing, I don’t know about adult side, but on teen side I know that even when people considered it there was so much uncertainty and anxiety surrounding the idea of trying it that it deterred many users. Things are not going well and have not been going well for quite a while, and I personally have been left with zero response time and time again when trying to reach out about these issues.
When it comes to personal mutes, I’ve once again noticed that on teen side at least, it creates a lot of anxiety and uncertainty. I personally struggle with that one. there are a few reasons for this: 1. the person you’ve muted can still see your messages. 2. other users are engaging with them and there’s an overwhelming curiosity or maybe even fear that the person you muted is talking about you. 3. by muting that person, you can no longer see their messages, which means you can no longer take the screenshots necessary to give proof if you plan to fill out a report form. I think the personal mute system is a bit flawed and there is of course no perfect solution, but if com mods were to actually be active and present consistently in the rooms there wouldn’t be as much of a need for them.
As for members taking on roles, that is not a fair expectation. Members are here to receive support, not take on roles and support everyone else. If that’s something a member wants to do, that’s great. But it should not be something expected of any member. I was a member room supporter, and we have current member room supporters. No matter how much a member room supporter tries, they can not (and frankly should not have to be able to) de-escalate conflicts and/or create a more supportive environment than any other member.
Com mods are paid to moderate the rooms, it’s their literal job. If teen rooms are being neglected (which they 100% are) then that means that the job at hand is not being performed properly and this should not fall onto the members’ laps as something we need to fix. If that is the case, why do we have com mods at all? We are not asking for much, we just want something implemented so that com mods can do their jobs properly and teens can feel safe in rooms. I cant imagine how difficult it is for a com mod to moderate that many rooms at once, which is why I have, and will continue to suggest more LT mod coverage. I think mods and members alike could benefit from that.
@TayTayy
That's valid, TayTayy. Those are excellent points.
Reading through these posts, I see a lot of truth and hurt that you guys are facing. As an volunteer moderator, I know I do not speak for Group Support and I have no idea how the Community Mod team functions protocol wise, but it's great that you all are stepping forward with constructive feedback and making concerns known. I'm glad you all are speaking up and advocating for a safe and positive chatting environment. This place is for you guys.
I'm an ATL, and although I cannot respond to the emergency mod form, if you ever need any moderation support in the TCR room of either side, please feel free to PM me.
Have things been any better since this thread was posted? Are mods showing up more often?
Nothing much has changed, honestly. Yesterday, there were a few conflicts in the group chats, and the mods have not done a lot to de-escalate any of them. Especially with the latest conflict, several members, including me, have been triggered and invalidated. I took screenshots of the incident, and will make a report later today— but as a few members already mentioned, the reporting forms are usually disregarded and almost no action is taken. It’s really frustrating that we are coming upon the same issues on a daily basis, and there are no signs of slowing down.
@selflessSpruce1515 I am sorry to hear that Spruce. That doesn't seem supportive. I understand how triggering and challenging it can be. Please send the screenshots to me. Thank you for sharing all of it. Appreciate the help.
@GoldenNest2727 not really. It just seems that complaints made in chat are being modded. As in asked to put in a report and stop talking about it in chats even if it’s right after a situation. Nothing is really changing but that. And from the past reports seem not to do all that much. So honestly not really.