The Thinking Space Room Problems

@Eunoia

Right. Next time I guess I will pretend to be a moderator and ask people to stop there unsupportive conversation.

@Fear333

hey,

You are not pretending to be a moderator if you request someone to follow the rules. You are doing what you should as a person on this site, as a listener and a human being in general. If there is a problem in your city that you can help solve, wouldn't you have a responsibility to help solve it? Or do you think that's only the responsibility of the cops, the mayor and the president?

@Eunoia. Most would let cops! Ha. :p

Also you really do have a lot of misunderstandings to a lot of what I say lol. I'm not saying that it's too early so that's why I won't do to chat. I'm saying that there is something messed up with my phone. Its a technical issue and I told 7 cups about it. So one option would be to get someone else real quick or to push it back till later on.

@AffyAvo

hey,

I think that that rule is really hard to enforce because most of us have many email accounts, even if one member account from one email account is banned, people will be able to create accounts using their other email accounts. that's why it's been such a problem.

@Eunoia

yeah, it takes just 10 seconds to create a new account. So warning, mutes and bans dont'really have much use, besides that it still somehow annoys people if they receive them (I think it's mostly a feeling of indignancy or maybe guilt).

I don't know how you can set up guidelines, rules and a policy around a site that in a way doesn't have any security at all. It's quite an accomplishment of 7C I think that they've been able to build up a well functioning community like this. I don't understand how 7C makes it work, though.

@WilleZurMacht

I think all those guidelines work because most people here accept and understand them, and the system is very good, the top management is very approachable and supportive.

@WilleZurMacht maybe you know this... but if you make another account dont you have to use another email or........ ????

@WilleZurMacht

A bit sorry to say this but...

Even mmorpg sites or just mmo's actually ban ip addresses if there has been multiple offenses.

1) Account in 7 cups
2) Email address (because that's member/listener account banned) that one can make for every 10 minutes, as you guys have mentioned
3) There's the IP address, thought there could be multiple people using that IP address in a home that shares net connection, highly likely, like for my own situation, people (for their own reasons) want to keep it quiet and a secret that they are here (and I respect those reasons)... ---point: a family of 4, no one knows one of them's struggling with depression (it's not unheard of, and is pretty common, those closest don't even know about it). And the person would be the only one who has a 7 cups account.

But of course, let's not base it on that. It's just a thought though, no hard statistics... And even statistics isn't pure science right?? People can be so unpredictable even with all these patterns shown before.

I'm not that tech-savy of a person...but...

****Dynamic IP addresses keep changing unlike Static IP address right?****

So that's one other thing.

4) The rules -both unwritten and written.

To be supportive, and more positive, and forward-thinking and stuff. This means, even if there's an issue, one has to try and view it positively. I'm more for the whole "open-minded) part of it.

There's an issue -it's bad. But one has to be open-minded. And in that sense, some people choose to think more positive --hence why some of you get to see some of the mods' and/or listeners' words that way.

They're people, and some of the listeners and mods struggle with the same/similar stuff we do. Which means, YEAH they've probably had their own personalized version of hell or heck (if that gets censored). Which means yeah, part of them may agree, and this is just them --their minds doing their best to stay away from it and avoid all the repercussions it brings...

and to stay away from it for our sakes.

If you saw a mod or listener who started sharing their experience in detail and in a light that most members and guests do here ---aka, not the general "I've lose someone too" but in great detail.... then the line between a listener and a member is crossed. It's hard to explain.

Everyone has their own reasons for doing things. The mods and listeners that do try to help out here --that made them want to be here... might also be doing so because, apart from helping someone, it makes sure they themselves stay in shape, stay healthy -stay positive and supportive SO THEY CAN SUPPORT OTHERS.

The rules, the general category of what we all struggle with, supposedly the empathy, this URL are what we have in common at this point.

those that don't heed the rules most of the time, or come here to break them...
those that make accounts on here just to do so ^^^^
those that always blame their struggle for all the misbehavior, lashing out, breaking the rules, hurting others...

And those that follow the rules from the listener, mods, admin side... the previously mentioned would be given benefit of the doubt (whether member or listener), they'd be given chances (verbal warnings, written warnings, mutings, 24 hour bans, bad reviews sent directly to them along with remarks on how to improve)...

Multiple accounts are probably treated this way as well. Even if it seems like they are very much identical to previous perpetrators, it's not impossible that it's an impersonation.

It's also not that easy to just ban an ip address. If it were a nuke button, and the person was the whole of a nation with parts of them good and bad... But the whole of them needing help as whole nation --as a whole human being... Nuking them means any chance of helping them is pretty much eliminated. Though probably, some of us are in immediate need of professional help (even if we all think that we ALL need and deserve professional help immediately).

The bad stuff are just as persistent as WE can be. So they'd find ways to slip through cracks in the foundations of us and society. Or, they'll CRACK what seems like a perfectly good structure.

I don't want to be one to remind everyone of the rules in-depth. Or what "they should do."

So... just stay strong, persevere, have some breaks (without kitkat because nestle is evil), use the referral, mute, call a mod buttons, keep posting if you can afford to, and watch"Crowd Control" while you're at it.

I'm bad at ending stuff. Sorry for the uber long post. It regards to TS, and everyone and everything. It happens in a similar way outside of 7 cups.

P.S.
Wasn't "blaming" everyone, more like everyone contributes to this more than they think, we're all indirectly responsible for the things around us. I hate being kicked out. I hate someone telling me I ignored them, when I literally don't have the energy to try and get back to everyone or even two people.

So learn to say, even mentally, excuse me 7 cups, I need to just get out of this chat, and start jogging in place/baking 5 batches of cookies/rolling on the floor (at least it got cleaned)/staring at the ceiling.

The site's intentions are great. Some people's intentions are great. The intention to get better is great. But eventually we're all just gonna be forced to adjust. It's the same as outside the world, expectations are great for this place, so will the disappointment be if it's not perfect to the dot. So, it can be just as toxic here as it can be helpful. (Loads of the stuff here applies to mods, because they theymselves were once members, or better yet, they themselves are only human beings with their own stuff.)

I agree that the room can be a bit harsh for people and that the conversation in there isn't much in line with what you'd expect of a site that foremostly tries to cater to people who are in a crisis.

What you have to realize I think, though, is that there is no where else that this type of conversations are allowed and that a lot of people enjoy these types of conversations. You may find the conversations boring, distasteful or harsh but that it still caters to people's needs and if the room weren't there these people would have to find other places to find these conversations and it would flow over to other rooms. Because Thinking Space is like this I think what you'll see these conversations less elsewhere because they now can be had in Thinking Space.

If you dislike these people and the conversations they are having I think you should be grateful that Thinking Space exists. Because the only thing you have to do is simply not go there and go to the community room or any other room in which you'll now find none of these people and conversations thanks to Thinking Space.

Enforcing heavier moderating on Thinking Space I don't think will do much good for anyone. The people in the room obviously wouldn't like it, it would affect the rest of the rooms as then people will try to seek out these types of conversation elsewhere, and the moderators too would have a hard time with it. I remember when it was just Community Room 1 & 2 and there were a lot more moderators but also a lot more fighting about rules, mods, warning, mutes, trolls, band etc. Compared to that, Thinking Space is very easily moderated now and it's really peaceful.

I think it would be nice if 7C tries to caters to everyone's needs and I think they've actually often stated that this is something they aim for. I think Thinking Space suits that purpose well.

I do however agree that you can't have serious or deeper discussions in Thinking Space. When I try to engage people in an intelligent discussion I usually don't get much of an answer and the discussions of other people take over the room. While I don't like this I don't ask for 7C to close the room down or ask for them to silence them or anything. It's just not my taste but the people in that room seem happy about it, so it doesn't really matter what my opinion is on this imo.

How we can have more intelligent discussion on 7C I don't know, there isn't a room at the moment where people talk more intellectually. I"m not sure if this is something that can be made on 7C, sometimes I think there simply isn't enough animo for these types of conversations. I think maybe adding more discussions about philosophy or politics could be helpful but I know that people in Thinking Space generally don't like it and will leave the site. I'm also thinking that Thinking Space maybe can be seperated, which I think is going to happen anyways because the chat often goes too fast to be able to read it. Maybe besides just making a Thinking Space 1 and 2 there could be seperations made on deep and shallow discussions.

@NeoNeoNeoNeonPrune

I don't understand why people who don't go on thinking space feel the need to demand stricter moderation or fir it to be closed. I don't like several of the rooms i don't demand they be closed or changed, because i just leave if i don't like the discussion.

Intelligent discussions are difficult because the chat goes so fast and i for one am pretty much only ever on this site on my phone and can't keep up, so i get aggravated and leave. Discussions are usually mediocre anyway, at best.

Moderating is usually fine and the room is mostly civil until a new mod wants to be overly strict and stifle the conversations. Or new people come in and start problems and call in mods because they can't just be adults and leave the room if they don't like it.

There's already mcr for random chat anyway. A new room won't help.

Lol yeah don't change anything, the stuff that goes on in there is TOTALLY appropriate for the purpose that this site was created for, lmao.

That's why I don't go in there anymore. A support site where you are harassed. And yes I'm ranting now lol what do I have to lose lol lol lol

@Alystem

What sort of support are you seeking, Alystem. I am well acquainted with this site and can direct you for the kind of support you need.

To quote my own example, i used to be a cry baby when i came to this site and now i don't cry anymore. It is evidence that this site works!

Thanks and stay awesome!

I absolutely love the subtle jokes and name calling references you put in there.

10/10

@Alystem

Judging by your other posts, I'm assuming your issue is with the whole site in general, rather than with thinking space. As far as thinking space's place within the site, i don't see a problem besides the mods with personal grudges sniping and muting unfairly. There's more trolls in the depression room usually, anyway.

@NeoNeoNeoNeonPrune Great post! The original intention of the Thinking Space was, as you said, a place for discussions involving more deep thinking and all that great stuff. I, as well as a few of our other team members, have held wonderful thoughtful discussions in the Thinking Space room about a variety of more serious, thoughtful topics. However there are also, like you said, times when it gets out of hand. We have been working to prevent this by having at least one available mod at all times. I have posted the list of our team in our forum section so anyone can message one of us when needed. Also, we have been working on creating better relationships between mods and members in there, which is hindered by whomever insists on continuing to snipe in our room, giving the rest of us a bad name. I hope this bit of info helps set people's mind at ease a bit. Thank you again for your post :)

@NeoNeoNeoNeonPrune

Hi Neon! I agree with you! We will have more discussion I can assure because you are right, intelligent discussions and such is what that room is for!

@NeoNeoNeoNeonPrune - you make a good point about how giving a room for a certain type of conversation only some people want makes sense because if not then they will have that conversation soemwhere else where it might be more disruptive

@WilleZurMacht

Relating this to mmorpgs and different kinds of people and gample analogy:

-There is a high rate server -easy to level up, easy to get loot/drops/items, boosts egos of players ego it makes them look for fights more often, the population of the server even without an event is already at 2,000, trash talk, playing "pals" with mods and so on and so forth.

-There's a low rate server. Everything is hard work considering it was based closer to the original rate -which is lower than the high rate server. Rules are stricter. Things considered legal in the other server is illege here.

What happens when the high rate server is down? The regulars get bored, and they take their antics, their "culture" to the low-rate. Not saying 100% of them misbehave, but a lot do, even if it's just to pass the time till their home is back.


This is a temporary solution. If any person --because like it or not, people like that DO exist, and people DO become that way for whatever reasons... they had a taste of bullying "the weak" or just good old, inexplicable "it's fun, and I've got nothing else to do." or even something we all can relate to: "VENTING"

Temporary why? So we're supposed to just keep them happy, If they demand something, we give it to them? If they say mods just aren't doing their jobs -it's already their fault? Are we supposed to just lock them up in there? Sure, it's something they don't have anything against, since it's a place they are comfortable in and are used to.

But this is what's called: "ENABLING" and "feeding" a "psychosis." It's not exactly trying to change them drastically like K-pops have their images and personalities changed according to what their company deems is favorable/advantageous/sellable to the public. It's about just common courtesy, some understanding, and learning that we all have to adjust.

This is temporary... because if anything happens, and they're forced to go elsewhere, and they take with them what they are used to doing, to saying, to behaving, then it just starts over elsewhere. It will just delay WHEN it happens. Not to be pessimistic. But it could get worse. Better safe than sorry.

What do the rules say about people who come into chats looking for help, and they panic? We try to talk to them calmly, we try to help them calm down. Determine whether or not they are an immediate danger. And even some of us still continue to talk ot them even if they threaten us with their own lives. Or even just people who are already drowning in their anger, in their emotions, that they've just had it --it's in the heat of the moment? They came here looking for help. A fast chat, some regulars greeting each other, people too focused in both serious and light chats or greetings, it's only been 1-5 minutes, and the person will already feel like it's been forever, and they have not been given the attention and support that they were seeking...

What do you guys do? ​

When we try to help, and when we try to understand someone --when we try to EMPATHIZE, we need need those and patience. We don't know how it will turn out. Because when we don't do things kindly or properly, they start snowballing into something ugly. That person may or may not have been adjusting to have survive and get here to us.

If we don't handle things with a long-term thinking, we aren't tackling the issues at their core. Which means it comes back. Angry, disappointed, hurt people come back into the chat, still hoping there'd be something that could help them, feeling alone --feeling that there's no where else to be, but they just HAVE to BE...somewhere.. But they're disposition's worse, and so when they're around, they've got an extra excuse to feel crappy and to be mean and to lash out at people.

I don't like guilt-tripping people. And this site doesn't either. But everyone's gonna have to try. How can anyone just completely blame someone for the situation they are struggling with?? If we turn them away, then we've just successfully gone against what 7 cups of tea is teaching us, and we've just possibly made a potential troll, or a potential someone who'll be even harder to speak with.

If a person came in saying they can't get out of their abusive relationship and can't decide, and you think you already know what they're too "incompetent" to do and too "cowardly" to do. Think about yourself immediately judging someone and refusing them. 7 cups of tea encourages everyone to give people a chance. This includes even previously proven/convicted trolls or misbehaving people. This includes even people with offenses. Even those people need help.

Whether or not the responding action made by the admins is good or bad, in life there are always pros and cons. Trial and error. But at the same time, trying to make good sense of which is better.

I hope this made sense.

@SunsetMorpho

Sorry but it actually didn't make sense to me lol. It seems interesting, though, and I did get something out of it, let me try to reword my interpretation into my own words:

So yeah, I do think it is true that it's a bit of a chicken and the egg kind of thing, is it the people that made Thinking Space so laisez-faire or is it Thinking Space that allowed the people to get like this? Thinking Space has its own kind of style that doesn't fit into the 7C rules, which has its pros, but it also doesn't allow Thinking Space to become more compassionate. And somewhere I already acknowledged that it goes too far and that mods sometimes join in on the gangbang or just let the regular group have their way with a newcomer or an outsider. Probably because mods get too friendly with the people in the room and because if they don't give into the demands of regulars they think they'll lose control over the room.

So what is the right thing to do?

1. Close down a generally well-functioning community so that it is hold to the same standard as the rest of the site.

2. Allow Thinking Space to exist and let it make their own rules.

I still think number two is the best, and also the most realistic, and also has the best shot at getting a bit compromised, perhaps by doing something about the moderation and just simply giving a new set of rules instead of allowing them to make their own rules.

What do you think are other things that could be done?

I'm sorry if this is how you feel about it or anyone had a bad time there, and me as part of the team we try our best to make this room suitable for what it is meant to be for. Sometimes things get all worked up there but then anyone can contact any of the team ir any mod and they will be there.

Thinking Space different than other rooms and vice versa, it's meant to be for lighthearted talk which isn't suitable in other rooms, so each room has it's cons and pros for each member here, and the community is trying to make places for everyone to find their spot and where they feel comfortable talking, but that of course doesn't give anyone the right to make you feel unwelcome there, and we try our best to make everyone feel welcomed in there.

Each room has it's time when it's need a mod immediately that's why there is us and there's teams so each team can try take care of that room as best as they can and we try our best, and you can always contact anyone of us or any mod as a matter of fact if it's needed.

I would recommend if you try give it another chance because as there is bad times there are some really great times where we have thoughtful, fun and whatever we can come with as discussions there, and again sorry for anyone who had a bad experience there.

I don't understand why you would want more moderation. When there was more moderation there were a lot more fights in the room and people hated the mods. Now it's really peaceful and everyone gets along with the mods.

Sometimes we are just talking in Thinking Space and then suddenly out of nowhere there comes a message from someone who entered the room 15 minutes before, hasn't said anything and suddenly goes "I'm reporting this to the mods!". These people walk into a room, don't like it, eavesdropping in the corner for 15 minutes and then start dictating to everyone the conversations should go. Yet when these people complain on the forum their word is taken for granted and their complaints are validated as legit concerns.

It's sad people can just dictate their own opinion on an entire room by just making a forum post claiming how a certain room is mean, bullying, triggering, not following the rules, don't include other people and 7C immediatly starts giving into their demands. Or atleast that's the impression I get with when reading these threads.

I also don't think adding more discussions is a good thing. While I personally like them, the majority in Thinking Space doesn't. I don't think a few loudmouths should force their opinion onto the majority and I don't think 7C should give into the demands of the few who are the loudest on the forum.

@NeoNeoNeoNeonPrune NEOOO! no one is dictating anything, neither did anyone say more moderation. We're a team of 11 now and we try out best that each one of us be there in a specific time we chose so all we said is what we're trying best to do, and that's what mscoxie said.

Everyone can say their opinion and we're obligated to listen and understand even if you don't agree with it, and the discussions will be more great when you guys give us ideas on what you want to discuss and some of you also can lead their discussions by just asking us, and I find the discussions great because we can all do the same thing, not every two persons are in a different conversation, and that's why some people feel unwelcomed there.

.

The reason I personally feel unwelcome is because people have told me to kill myself..yes, on a support site. Lol lol lol you people still think there's hope. I don't.

When you sign up to this site, there are Community Guidelines, the Guidelines are clear, they are there to protect everyone, everyone needs to follow the Guidelines. You signed up to the site having accepted the Community Guidelines. You can't then decide you don't like or want to follow the Guidelines and anything goes. The end result will be closure of the room, just like the 'Loneliness Room'. Some people breached the Guidelines, but everyone who used that room suffered, because it was 'CLOSED' down.

@rebel11

That's a very dogmatic and unrealistic look on the matter, though. Yes we have rules for a reason but that doesn't take away that Thinking Space now is much more peaceful than when it was heavily moderated (I mean Community Room 1 & 2). Despite how authoritized and justified you think it is, if you close down the room because of a few people who don't like it, then the people from Thinking Space will just move to the Community Room and you'll just have more trouble and more complaints.

@NeoNeoNeoNeonPrune just saying. But you might have a great time but someone else might not. I feel like certain people will defend that room and have certain views but some of those people are the ones that monopolize the conversation and want to talk about certain topics that I feel pushes people away.

@Fear333

I agree but you see it as a negative thing while I see it as a positive thing. Personally I'd like to be able to hold more intelligent conversations but the people there don't want to. I don't think it's right to push my preference upon them. They monopolize Thinking Space because they don't have anywhere else to go on the chat rooms where they can be themselves. If someone doesn't like the conversation in that room, tough luck, there are other rooms they can go to, why do they have to ruin it for the people there who can't go anywhere else and who no one wants in their chat room? No one is entitled to like the whole site. If someone doesn't like the type of conversation that goes on in that room there is nothing they are missing out on.

I must acknowledge, though, that to me it does indeed seem that newbies or people with different thoughts get bullied by some people and that moderators and the rest of the people gang up on the newbie/outsider unrightfully. This is just how I perceived a few situations.

@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn

Sorry, I didn't understand??

I don't understand either. I guess it shows the amount of dedication put into this issue lol

@Eunoia - it relates to other comments. attempting to lighten the mood.

disputes are fine. better to have them out than let them simmer.

overtime time they may even become constructive.

So you believe that keeping outside of an issue is the best way to solve something? The rest of us all just teeny tiny little members, but you have power...interesting how you just kinda brush it off like it's all one big joke.

@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn

I have no idea what you all are talking about.

@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn Krink you fit rightvin. I boo hook hook no matter what and don't care what others think.

"Oh boo hoo, a mod is bullying me because I'm not following the rules that I agreed to when I decided to spend my time here and not on 4chan. Boo hoo hoo" --most of thinking space

"there is a chat room on the internet where people make jokes I don't like and it's against the rules "

@NeoNeoNeoNeonPrune

Neo, some of these "jokes" are really hard on people

@NeoNeoNeoNeonPrune - Please keep your tone respectful! It's okay to have different opinions than others and express them, but we want to keep this a productive conversation.

@Anomalia

wtf? double standard much? I was just doing what she did to show her how childish of a comment she made. 7C has the worst admins and moderators of any site I"ve ever been to. This is far from the first time stuff like this is happening.

@NeoNeoNeoNeonPrune- focus on yourself and let others focus on themselves.

"she did it first" or "they started it" are not really good justifications for our own behavior, are they?