CAN WE GET SOME CLARIFICATION? :D
Hi guys:)
****APOLOGIES FOR THIS REALLY LONG POST BUT PLEASE READ IT****
So some people contacted me in frustration about a few things and the first I want to address is language in the chatrooms. Now, we were all taught at the start that in the member rooms, all conversations have to be done in english (which is kind of fair) and I believe in the beginning of the chatroom days, this was actually in the rules for everyone to see. However, while discussing this with someone yesterday, I discovered that it was not longer in the official rules for the site so when we mods have been telling people to speak only english because it's "the rules" the rule actually isn't there. This has caused a lot of confusion and is one of the main reasons why members refer to us as "the gestapo" among other things and there is a lot of tension. (Could we put the rule back up if we are going to enforce it??)
Next, I totally get that to make this a welcoming place for all we need to keep the chats in english (its the one language all mods here speak so it is easier for us to monitor conversations than if someone was abusing another user in another language) but for many members, englishis not their first language and it can be really daunting entering a room full of strangers chatting away really fast. While I'm not saying that we should converse in every language (as it would be nearly impossible and pretty impractical) we should not be so quick to shut down people who give a simple greeting in their native language (whether it be a member, guest or listener). I mean, it's not hurting anybody and you can generally tell if it is a greeting or a massive long message about what's going on for them and if there's any doubt, we have many different online translating tools at our fingertips. Obviously if they started a big long message we could politely say something along the lines of 'I'm really glad you feel comfortable chatting here but to make sure everyone else here understands and can join in with your discussion, we ask that everyone chats in english. If you feel more comfortable chatting in your native language you can always request a specific language here {with link}.' something that is non-threatening and helpful for everyone. I have seen some listeners come into the room with a simple 'bonjour' and then they get several requests from french speakers because someone took the time to say a simple hello. Yes it was englishbut it helped members feel more accepted, did not harm any others and is that not the ultimate aim of the chatrooms? What I'm basically trying to say is thatAlthough we should keep the chat in english, a simple greeting in another language is not breaking the "rules" of the site and could even be encouraged (my person opinion anyway :D ).
Now for the not so cool aspect of this. It was brought to my attention that some mods were muting other users for greeting some members in a language other than englishand, according to this person's account, were allowing a detailed sex chat to continue on. I cannot be 100% certain that this is the full story however it is worth addressing all the same. It is not that users dislike mods enforcing rules but it is the lack of consistentsythat drives them to outright disrespect many mods here. Some regular members have worked out which mods will bend the rules and allow such chats and so when other mods try to stamp it out, there is a lot of hate towards the mod who is trying to keep the chat safe. This creates a really hostile environment and mods that believe they are not doing the right thing when they are. In short,BE CONSISENT WITH HOW YOU MOD AND LET'S MAKE SURE EVERYONE IS READING FROM THE SAME PAGE:D
So that's pretty much it:D:D KEEP BEING AWESOME!!!
Emma <3
Thoughts??
Emma, you have somereally great points here, thank you for bringing this up !!
@EmmaV - conversation in the chat room should be in English. I will get that rule added this week to clear any doubt. As for greetings, I am quite disappointed to hear ofmoderatorsmuting users simply for saying hello in another language. In that scenario, it would be appropriate to give a friendly reminder to the room about the language rule. Muting should be a last resort.
Agreed, Heather, and thank you for adding the rule!
I agree that it should be in the rules, but it should be presented as "we speak English because it's what the moderators speak and English needs to be spoken to keep the chatroom safe" not "we need to speak English to cater to the Western majority."
I agree, and I think that it is really important to clearly state what the reason is because it can be misunderstood as enforcing something unfairto people who do not speak English well.
Thank you for this, Emma! I also had an issue yesterday about language in the chatrooms. I think it would be really beneficial for the listeners and members if the rule was located in the chatroom rules.
These are great point Emma!
I can really relate to the one about consistency. I think it?s important that all the mods are on the same page. I have witnessed inconsistencies while being a member as well as being a mod. It is frustrating and confusing, to members/guests, when mods seem to have different rules.
I have had cases where I have enforced the rules. This upset some members/guests because another mod allowed the rules to bend. They became unhappy with me and it was just an overall bad situation.
Great post!
I really like this points, and I have some things I would like to add:
Listeners that speak another language and are trying to connect with members that speak that language need to be able to give instructions in the language. I cannot tell you how many times that I have tried to give instructions to confused and upset members with limited English ability in English on how to connect with me, and then been yelled at for giving instructions in Spanish. It doesn't help that the instructions often disappear before the member can read them. There used to be a member that would come in and say espal? and then a Spanish speaking listener would connect with her, but we had to tell her how to connect in Spanish. I think she came to Teen Support first because she couldn't figure out how to find a Spanish speaking listener and connect on her own, since the website is in only English. She has stopped coming, and I think that is because she was constantly yelled at by listeners/guests/members, and she could tell they were upset with her. While the mods were a bit more polite, I think she didn't get support due to the fact that people couldn't be compassionate enough to give us a moment to give her some simple instructions in her language.
I would love to be able to greet people in my native language. Even if I can't speak my native language there, as a member, I like meeting people who speak my language and know my culture and being able to talk to them. As a listener, I get lots of personal requests from someone that wants a Spanish speaker and I spend a lot of time watching the Teen Support chat looking for people that want to speak Spanish. I remember being really scared to participate when I first came because everyone talked so fast and ignored me. Being able to ask someone "what does *word* mean in English/Spanish?" and knowing if there is anyone of my culture and language has really helped me feel more welcome and comfortable.
I have been insulted by a member in Spanish (my member picture is the flag of my country and the member saw this and started insulting me in Spanglish and was muted) so I do understand the rule. However, I think the rule should be stressed as "English must be spoken because it is the language that the moderators speak, and in order for them to moderate and keep order, English must be spoken." It makes me feel discriminated against, and hurt when people say things like "English must be spoken because I can't understand" or "we need to speak English so that no one is left out" because in this world, where if you don't have a basic understanding of English, you can be left out of many things, I find it extremely irritating and patronizing when people say things like "speak English so I'm not left out" because in my daily life, I am left out of a lot of things because of my lack of English skills, or perceived lack of them, so I find it insulting that you can't be left out of a conversation for 10 seconds to allow me to help a member get support, and I and other people that speak English as a second language or not at all have to suck it up and might even have to go without help because you can't slow down or spell right almost everyday. And it's a chatroom. Talk to me when you lose your job because people complain about your accent or shove you off the sidewalk in front of a moving car because you were speaking Spanish on the phone. Now that I'm done ranting, I think that the English rule should be phrased so that it appears that English should be spoken to make the chatroom safe, not because we need to cater to the Western majority.
As a listener who frequently spends time in Teen Support, I have also gotten so many complaints from people about a mod, that I had to write "Do not message me if you want to complain about the Teen Support mods" in my profile. I have also had to file reports on behalf of members (one member said the document wasn't opening on her computer, another didn't speak English and couldn't fill out the form himself.) I think that this would lessen if moderators were more consistent. Moderators shouldn't have reputations of "the fun one" and "the strict uptight one."
Another thing (I know it is a little off topic, but it is kind of related): we need to tell members that they don't enforce the rules. I have seen members rudely remind people of the rules about social media, cursing, triggers, and other languages, and while they are rules, they are often unkind and upset members when they tell other members they are breaking the rules. So I think it needs to be stressed that moderators are in charge, and members don't need to, or shouldn't, enforce the rules.
Hey,amobachata, I couldn't agree more. Every single word in this post is in it's place. Thank you for writing this (especially the little part that explained how difficult it is for people that do not speak English well or have another language as their first, not just on internet but in "real life" as well). I really have nothing to add, but had the need to thank you for this post!
@amobachata
I forgot to tag. Sorry if this is spam. :|
Thank you, I'm glad I'm not the only onewith these feelings. I remember being new, and confused about the website and I did feel discriminated against, and I felt the rule was unfair until I learned the chat room had to be in the language the moderators speak. However, that should be the reason for the rule. The reason for the rule should not be "we need to speak English so that the western majorityis included and if you're left out, too bad we need to make sure the westerners are getting help" and I felt that was the reason for the rulefor a time.
I wonder if it would be helpful for us to create threads explaining how 7 cups works in various languages. The chatroom rule is for obvious reasons until we can extent our networks to provide more international rooms ( one day! ), but it might be helpful to have a thread in, say, Spanish or whatever the most common languages are to show them how to search or connect with listeners who speak their language. I've used foreign websites before, and I usually reference those types of things. Then we can have translated phrases to say things like "I don't speak your language but this might help you find someone who does! (Link)" or "To help with moderation purposes, we try to have everyone speak English I'm here. Maybe you can visit this thread? (Link)" It would be great to start and international forum for threads in non-English languages as well. Moderation is easier in that case than in the rooms when these are live since you can take the type to google translate to get a rough idea.
This is a great idea! We already have a thread that translates that sentence, but I think it would be helpful to have a greater explanation :)
Helen, I created that forum with the hopes of putting it in one document. It's for listeners who end up in 1 on 1 chat, not to explain how 7 Cups works. Also, it's important to be careful using Google Translate. I've had serious misunderstanding happen when people use it when talking to me.
Helen, I created that forum with the hopes of putting it in one document. It's for listeners who end up in 1 on 1 chat, not to explain how 7 Cups works. Also, it's important to be careful using Google Translate. I've had serious misunderstanding happen when people use it when talking to me.
https://www.7cups.com/forum/ListenersOnlyForums_38/WelcometotheListenersOnlySection_59/Languagereference_17435/
Thank you guys for posting this! You all made excellent points.
I can understand that we should use English mainly on an English-based website.
I have found that speaking in another language simply to assist a member/guest really does help as someone here already stated but I will try to stick to English