How useful is the word "troll" on 7 Cups?
I want to start by saying that I love this place, and one thing I especially love is how safe this community feels. And a big reason for that feeling of safety is that we have an amazing team here, working to make sure that appropriate action is taken if people are being hurtful or disruptive in the community, in the way @Laura describes in this thread. This often requires some difficult work and I'm in total admiration of everyone here that helps keep the community feeling safe and respectful and supportive, it's awesome.
One thing I've been thinking about recently is how we use the word "troll". I know it is very commonly used to describe someone that is being deliberately disruptive online. I don't think it's a great word to use to describe people here on 7 Cups, and I'm interested to hear what everyone else thinks.
Let me also be clear that I am not saying please stop using it! I am not in favour of censoring it, or anything like that. I just think the words we choose are important in how we express ourselves, and if we can find better ways to do that as a community, why not talk about it?
Here's why I'm not a fan of the word "troll":
1. The word "troll" means different things to different people.
Many people would agree that someone coming into a chat room and straight away verbally abusing other people and posting links to obscene images etc, could be defined as a troll.
But many listeners also use the word "troll" to describe a member who seems to not be telling the truth in a 1-On-1. And as experienced listeners here know, members and guests might have a number of reasons for not telling the truth. Maybe what they are saying feels true to them. Maybe they are shaken up and not getting details right. Maybe it is the truth, but it just sounds unlikely to us. Maybe their story is somewhere between imagination and reality because they're not totally comfortable about opening up and they want to check they can really trust their listener to be open minded and non judgmental.
Many listeners also use the word troll to describe someone that is being disruptive or getting angry in a 1-On-1 chat. And maybe they are being disruptive, but maybe it is because they are in a dark place and don't know how to best reach out for support.
How comfortable are we with the use of the word "troll" in those situations? And if we talk about removing trolls on 7 Cups, do we risk giving new listeners the idea that they should block and report or ban if they believe members or guests are not telling the truth, or are getting angry in a chat?
2. The word "troll" is dehumanising.
If someone is disrupting the atmosphere, abusing or harassing people here on 7 Cups, it might be that its not a good fit for them to have an account here, and the community managers may have to intervene. Thats whats right and necessary to help protect the community, and also to help guide the person thats being disruptive too. The way I see it, thats not a reason to label that person with a name that makes them sound less than human.
One of the community guidelines here is that were respectful to all users of the site at all times, whether thats towards them, or when talking about them. I think thats such an important guideline. People here dont have to earn our respect - we respect them automatically as human beings, as a part of our community, regardless of how they're behaving. Maybe the word troll is widespread among online communities, but 7 Cups is not just any online community. I feel as though we have to hold ourselves to a higher standard. All our experience on the site shows us every day that people around us can be really struggling with something in their life, that people dont know about. And being abusive or hurtful is many peoples way of trying to regain some control when they are struggling. Their behaviour doesnt fit our community guidelines at all, but it doesnt make them any less human, either. We can condemn the behaviour and still respect the person. Because being respected is not a privilege here, its a given.
3. There are plenty of much better alternatives.
The words we choose are important. You can say its just semantics - thats not what you mean, when you say ‘troll. Well, semantics carry a lot of weight, and people read into the words we choose, no matter how we intend them.
So why not be clearer about what we mean? If I need to let a group mod know theres a troll in the Community Room do I mean abusive language in the Community Room? disrupting the Community Room? harassing a guest in the Community Room? That also helps the group mod understand what to look for. in the thread I mentioned earlier, I really like how Laura chooses her wording to describe behaviour that would need to be reported: acting in a way that is publicly disruptive and hurtful and disruptive and ugly behavior - that makes sense to me, as a way to talk about this. Describe the behaviour, dont label the person.
We're all just people here. Even people who come here and behave really unpleasantly and maliciously - theyre just people. We all have our lives, we all have people we care for and things were sad about and difficulties and passions just like everyone. We have all had moments when our behaviour has been disruptive, or cruel. Its not good, but its part of being human. Being human is what 7 Cups is all about, and thats something I love about this community too.
(Thanks so much @MizMickey and @MissZ for their awesome help and insight with this post!)
@michaelmichael Thank you for creating this post,
I was actually shocked and concerned the other day as I saw someone wanting to refer a chat, to which another experienced listener replied oh pass the troll to me. Due to the subject of the chat. I worry about what kinda vibe this gives off? and also how that listener would then deal with that person? (the issue was sorted btw)
I think the behaviour and not a label is absolutely right, everyone is a person before there behaviour or condition. ((which is also a bug bare of mine it is someone with depression etc not a depressed person lol ) We are a great friendly supportive community, so I am sure most would use the word to hurt anyone intentionally .... but maybe let us just be aware how it sounds ?
I completely agree. Someone might have a tough time and exhibit trolling behaviour for a short period of time. Once labelled as a troll though, it can be difficult to lose the label. Having the label stuck may actually encourage one to display more negative behaviour that they may not have otherwise.
Mikey, what a wonderful post! This is something that a lot of us have been thinking about in the community for a while and youve worded it beautifully. I think a culture shift is very necessary in terms of how we label people in general, but certainly most relevant to this post with the frequency in which we are seeing people being labelled as trolls. It is in every circumstance better to label the behavior, rather than the person, so I dont think there is another term we could come up with to replace troll. Id like to see a complete shift away from that altogether and refer, like you say, to disruptive, abusive, triggering, hurtful and such, behavior.
When someone is being disruptive, or has an intent to hurt, always treat them like you would anyone else, politely and professionally. It is always okay to give them a warning and let them know that their behavior isnt appropriate, which then gives them an opportunity to change that behavior. It is also okay if you feel out of your comfort zone or depth to deal with this and you need help from a mentor or you need to refer a chat to someone else. Your self-care here as a listener is always the most important thing to consider. On the subject of 1-on 1's just remember that when it comes to potential trolling type behaviors, it's generally best to assume that people are genuine and treat them as such. If youre not sure whether someone is being genuine, you can ask for help or you can always put a time limit on the chat, so you can spend time listening if they are genuine, but have a way out if they aren't. Only as a last resort you should you ever block a member.
Id like to mention one of my personal experiences as a way of reminding you that disruptive people, who seem to have the intent to hurt, are also human. I once had someone connect with me from a member account. They were abusive and rude from the start, and didnt appear to have anything constructive to talk about. They posted what could be some potentially triggering material for some and it seemed as though they were here to just cause trouble, spread hurt and be disruptive. This would be described as typical trolling behavior. I decided to just talk to this person, let them behave in the way they were behaving without judgment or without biting back, and after some time they began to respond to my questions and be less aggressive. What ensued after all the disruptive antics were over was that they broke down and were so very grateful that for the first time ever someone had bothered to acknowledge them as human, and not block them. We spoke for a long time and they admitted that they had been trolling (they used that word themselves) 7cups and other websites for quite some time, it was the only way they knew how to unleash the anger and hurt that they themselves felt deep down inside, due to a traumatic past. I know that this behavior can be very triggering for some and you certainly dont need to take it on in the manner that I did, but please be polite, remembering that these people are human too and perhaps, if you can, just give them a chance. Whatever you do, do you not take disruptive behavior personally, and please dont label them. Whats important to remember is that hurt people, hurt people.
Mick and Z, thanks for helping Mike with this post, credit to all of you!
@MichaelMichael @MissZ @MizMickey
Sam, beautiful post. "Hurt people hurt people". Indeed. Thank you.
It may also be useful to point out that the term Troll can;
1) glamourise their actions
2) be used as an umbrella term for anyone who is feeling out of control
Thank you for the post @MichaelMichael, @MizMickey and @MissZ
A trolls is not just someone behaving in a way that's unconventional, untruthful, or inconvenient for other people.
A troll is someone who has crossed the lines of decency and terms of conduct on this site and:
1. Been educated about expectations for behaviour by a listener.
2. Understands expectations but deliberately disregards people asking them to follow the rules.
3. Has been warned about it and then muted.
4. Creates new accounts to return and continue to harass the same person who muted them.
5. Been talked to about it by Mods and told the consequences.
6. Disregards the Mods and gets banned.
7. Creates new accounts to get around the ban to return and continue to harass the same person.
So as far as I know it's actually going to take a lot of effort to become a "troll" and probably at least several days worth of deliberately harassing behaviour to earn that label.
i think the biggest issue is that we are teaching new listeners to call them trolls then telling them not to it is completely conflicting behaviour.
We try to give all new listeners the community guidelines which includes:
Possible emergencies:
- Troll in Forum
- Troll in Chat room (s)
The word troll is used often in 7 cups guidelines and rules and other places as well.
How can we tell people not to use the word troll when the first thing we send them to read has it included within it? either we need to not use the word troll AT ALL on the website or we can use it. The problem at the moment is being told one thing and then the complete opposite.
This is a great point and I agree that many people have their own reasons to not tell the whole truth. In fact, I talk to several members that I learn something new about their situations each time I talk to them because they open up more each time we talk. However, I think that most of us use troll to describe someone who is on this site to be obscene and rude.
I agree that describing behavior is more beneficial than labeling, though.
I felt like this might be a good time to bring this topic back up the list.
Thank you so much for offering you insights into what you feel a "troll" is! As you stated, it's important to realize that not everyone who acts in a certain way that may be inappropriate or wrong to you, is trolling. I wanted to bump up this post as @Lyra linked me this post in another forum thread. I didn't know of this post myself and I think it's a beautiful reminder of openmindedness and creating a judgement free zone with those who come to 7cups. 
Awesome post !
a bump ❤