How useful is the word "troll" on 7 Cups?
I want to start by saying that I love this place, and one thing I especially love is how safe this community feels. And a big reason for that feeling of safety is that we have an amazing team here, working to make sure that appropriate action is taken if people are being hurtful or disruptive in the community, in the way @Laura describes in this thread. This often requires some difficult work and I'm in total admiration of everyone here that helps keep the community feeling safe and respectful and supportive, it's awesome.
One thing I've been thinking about recently is how we use the word "troll". I know it is very commonly used to describe someone that is being deliberately disruptive online. I don't think it's a great word to use to describe people here on 7 Cups, and I'm interested to hear what everyone else thinks.
Let me also be clear that I am not saying please stop using it! I am not in favour of censoring it, or anything like that. I just think the words we choose are important in how we express ourselves, and if we can find better ways to do that as a community, why not talk about it?
Here's why I'm not a fan of the word "troll":
1. The word "troll" means different things to different people.
Many people would agree that someone coming into a chat room and straight away verbally abusing other people and posting links to obscene images etc, could be defined as a troll.
But many listeners also use the word "troll" to describe a member who seems to not be telling the truth in a 1-On-1. And as experienced listeners here know, members and guests might have a number of reasons for not telling the truth. Maybe what they are saying feels true to them. Maybe they are shaken up and not getting details right. Maybe it is the truth, but it just sounds unlikely to us. Maybe their story is somewhere between imagination and reality because they're not totally comfortable about opening up and they want to check they can really trust their listener to be open minded and non judgmental.
Many listeners also use the word troll to describe someone that is being disruptive or getting angry in a 1-On-1 chat. And maybe they are being disruptive, but maybe it is because they are in a dark place and don't know how to best reach out for support.
How comfortable are we with the use of the word "troll" in those situations? And if we talk about removing trolls on 7 Cups, do we risk giving new listeners the idea that they should block and report or ban if they believe members or guests are not telling the truth, or are getting angry in a chat?
2. The word "troll" is dehumanising.
If someone is disrupting the atmosphere, abusing or harassing people here on 7 Cups, it might be that its not a good fit for them to have an account here, and the community managers may have to intervene. Thats whats right and necessary to help protect the community, and also to help guide the person thats being disruptive too. The way I see it, thats not a reason to label that person with a name that makes them sound less than human.
One of the community guidelines here is that were respectful to all users of the site at all times, whether thats towards them, or when talking about them. I think thats such an important guideline. People here dont have to earn our respect - we respect them automatically as human beings, as a part of our community, regardless of how they're behaving. Maybe the word troll is widespread among online communities, but 7 Cups is not just any online community. I feel as though we have to hold ourselves to a higher standard. All our experience on the site shows us every day that people around us can be really struggling with something in their life, that people dont know about. And being abusive or hurtful is many peoples way of trying to regain some control when they are struggling. Their behaviour doesnt fit our community guidelines at all, but it doesnt make them any less human, either. We can condemn the behaviour and still respect the person. Because being respected is not a privilege here, its a given.
3. There are plenty of much better alternatives.
The words we choose are important. You can say its just semantics - thats not what you mean, when you say ‘troll. Well, semantics carry a lot of weight, and people read into the words we choose, no matter how we intend them.
So why not be clearer about what we mean? If I need to let a group mod know theres a troll in the Community Room do I mean abusive language in the Community Room? disrupting the Community Room? harassing a guest in the Community Room? That also helps the group mod understand what to look for. in the thread I mentioned earlier, I really like how Laura chooses her wording to describe behaviour that would need to be reported: acting in a way that is publicly disruptive and hurtful and disruptive and ugly behavior - that makes sense to me, as a way to talk about this. Describe the behaviour, dont label the person.
We're all just people here. Even people who come here and behave really unpleasantly and maliciously - theyre just people. We all have our lives, we all have people we care for and things were sad about and difficulties and passions just like everyone. We have all had moments when our behaviour has been disruptive, or cruel. Its not good, but its part of being human. Being human is what 7 Cups is all about, and thats something I love about this community too.
(Thanks so much @MizMickey and @MissZ for their awesome help and insight with this post!)
Wonderful post, Michael! My favorite line- "Describe the behaviour, dont label the person." That is such a great and succinct way to express it, and so in keeping with the mission and values of 7 Cups! *bookmarks post for quick linking* ❤️
@MichaelMichael
Michael! Nice to see you again, and this rather interesting post! Let me get right into what I think
The term "Troll" as you've pointed out is usually pretty subjective, and there are 'blurred lines' on what a troll signifies when we hear "Troll", and I think you've picked up on these remarkably well!
According to Wikipedia (so take this with a grain of salt) :
"In Internet slang, a troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum or chatroom) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."
Now, as you have pointed out just because a story seems untrue, this doesn't mean that the member is in fact a 'Troll'. so in this sense, sometimes (the majority of the time) the term is indeed misused, and therefore can cause levels of confusion for people in regards to exactly how to help that member being 'trolled'. How is it they are 'Trolling'?
In this sense, linking back to your question, hearing "There's a troll" doesn't really help me, and I need some specifics.
Your alternative method of reporting/labeling is very helpful and insightful and helpful in achoring the actual meaning behind the statement "I'm being trolled" or anything along those lines
Trolls, again as you have pointed out, these people 'trolling' may be going through some hardships of their own and we should remain open minded and respectful towards them, they're still human, probably battling some sort of emotional pain, and we welcome everyone with open arms!
Regarding your alternative labeling/reporting for Group Support, some more specific language would be amazing, and as you have shown, it doesn't exactly take a lot to explain what's going on, and 'trolling' is very vague/broad.
For example:
How is this member/guest trolling? I've often entered rooms after being requested and not seen 'trolling' behavior actually happen and have gone back to whatever I was doing prior.
Your alternatives for asking for a mod to enter a group room are fantastic! They'd really help out any mod in clearly identifying the threat in the room, and they'd know exactly what to look out for! Brilliant ideas!
Really well done, Michael, Z and Mickey! - I think this post has the potential to inform people as to what 'trolling' behavior actually is, and well as teaching us all not to assume users are trolls for an unlikely story. I mean it's a crazy world, anything you can think of has probably happened somewhere!
Countering that though:
When someone asks for help with a Troll in regards to a 1-1, It's hard to say exactly what's happening and properly report/label the incident, as most of us know, we're not allowed to share chat details or specifics, to getting help without limiting what's going on to "Trolling" can indeed be hard, and it's something to ponder on.
You've mentioned some alternatives, which would really help Group Mods and Mentors alike! However, sometimes the word 'troll' is needed in regards to 1-1's because of chat details, once they're connected with a Mentor about this trolling, they may not even be describing it as trolling. This is however only covering 1-1's
I commend you michael, Z and Mickey. This post really helps us all see that labelling things as 'trolling' or people as 'trolls' can sometimes be harmful or wrong.
@Michaelmichael
I agree completely with everything you've said. I think that the term "troll" is definitely overused, and really quite vague. I've bookmarked this, because I think this is really useful, and I hope that people will read this and reconsider their use of the term "troll."
Thanks for putting this together! 
I have also been thinking about this topic. I am glad you wrote this post :)
A troll is someone too & remembering that there is a human on the other side who is struggling to make proper decisions is an important thing to keep in mind. There are many ways of manifesting our struggles and some people may not know or have the tools yet as to how to better cope.
Can we change the word troll? Maybe a community cultural shift? Every time someone says the word troll, we ask them to change it to XXXX... you tell me!
@Laura XXXX = Disruption by an UNS
UNS = Unknown Source ?
@MichaelMichael - Sorry, I didn't mean to step on your toes at all with my suggestion! I thought your post was really insightful and definitely brought a new perspective on this topic for me, it had got me thinking, which is why I shared my idea above :) I hope you don't mind!
<3 Jaelin
@Jaelin Actually my thought was the term "disruptor" which describes the behavior and not the person because as you say the effect of such behavior is disruptive. So, just to say, my thoughts seem to be along the lines of your thoughts on this subject.
Some description of the negative behavior I think is useful but the word troll is obscure and evokes imagery that is more fearsome than need be, since the term is borrowed from mythology. Some might say that disruptor contains judgement but I would hope that is not the case. It means that a person is acting in a way that for all can be determined from their communications is calculated to cause disruption or chaos in a disgenuine manner. We should have some sort of terminology to encompass the possibility of such behavior so that it can be addressed in as non-labeling or judging way as possible. Perhaps UNS is a good idea as it allows us to describe a possible troubling pattern of behavior without having the baggage of the word "troll" attached.
@PenguinPower31 That had been my thought- coming up with something impartial and passive and sort of just very neutral I guess, was what I had in mind when Unknown Source came up, but of course UNS (if that is what the CMs would like to adopt as the new "distress term" or what not) would be preceded by a detail of some kind like - "disruptive in the chat room" or some such phrase. So I think were thinking in much the same manner with that :) I enjoyed reading your thoughts on it too by the way, thanks for responding with them!
I say we stop using the word troll altogether. I'm sure that there is something on this website that says that something which has been said cannot be sent because of the wording, maybe that could be implemented on the listener side as well? With any word also that could be deemed offensive? There are times that I get suspicious as to whether the member or guest is genuine, and sometimes it is more obvious, but I always refrain from saying that and just repeat the point of the website and ask what brought the member or guest to the website in an attempt to get the conversation on track.
Thank you so much for this post @MichaelMichael! Some might say it is just semantics, but it really isn't. It is real people we are talking about, and we don't know the reasons for their behaviour. Someone being disruptive, mean, angry, starting a sexchat or just being unfriendly is definitely not doing well, and we need to acknowledge that. Just because someone isn't being respectful towards, does not mean we need to be disrespectful towards them.
"Troll" is a very blurry term, and as @Dova said, it is subjectively defined. Instead of using such a huge umbrella term we could try to be more specific without giving out too much detail. Saying that someone is being disruptive in a chatroom, or someone is attacking others in a chatroom, or someone is being threatening/angry/inappropriate in a chat is a much better way dealing with it. If we define all those situations with just one term, it is really not fair to the people who are maybe being misjudged (having a bad day, what exactly happened in the chatroom before the attacking started? being misunderstood in a chat etc).
I wonder if there actually is an umbrella term that can be used for all the different situations that I could come up with that have been described as "trolling". My solution is being specific without being too detailed (I love paradoxes!).
I totally agree, and I won't take long rephrasing the words, what you said is just clear and wonderful. So as for the alternative, apparently we have two options.
The first one is to be more specific about the kind of negative behavior. It was mentioned that this might be challenging when a listener wants to report this behavior in a public chat room, but when I think of most of common "trolling behaviors" in 1 on 1s, I think it is still safe to describe the behavior. Are we revealing chat details when we say the member is "abusing us", "not using a proper language", "sending inappropriate links", or "is here for the wrong reasons"?
If so, then we have to go to the second option, which is finding one general replacement that is more nice to use, and I have to step down here because I couldn't think of any alternative n_n
Excellent post, Michael. Bookmarked for future reference also.
Great post! I gave this some thought and truly agree that the word "troll" may not be the best term to describe a disruptive person. As stated, "Describe the behaviour, dont label the person." I think the community should think of potential words, even phrases, that can take its place!
@Michaelmichael, let it be known that one of my best friends I've ever gotten from this site actually started off here as a troll. I know that sounds super duper weird, but let me say a few things!
1) "Trolls" absolutely are people, too; they're not all psychopaths (though that word is objective in itself), they're not all intent on hurting people. They hurt because they feel hurt about something or another.
2) They're smart beyond compare, and actually really fab to hold a conversation with, if we're talking about the computer science-y ones.
3) This site goes through tons of measures to make sure that they can't hurt you. People can cause a nuisance, but nothing will happen. Just remember that.
This is a great forum thread, Michael. You're beyond a superstar.
