WSHD: Breaking Gender Stereotypes Discussion (9/4/15)
Amelia
September 7th, 2015
**Trigger Warning: This discussion involves subject matter such as sex, sexuality, and sexual health. If you are uncomfortable with any of the subject matter, its okay! We understand that these topics arent the easiest to talk about. This discussion will only last an hour, and you can always contact a Mentor for support if at any time during this discussion you feel uneasy.**
**Icebreaker: Whats one stereotype that you really disagree with?**
----That men are from mars.
----I think the one where men don't cry.
----Lesbians don't have penetrative sex.
----That Gay people are more feminine.
(1) What first comes to mind when you think of the word feminine?
----Women.
----Maxi pads.
----Clothing.
----Gentle and elegant.
----Biological clocks.
And how would those apply to gender?
----Notions that these physical items define what it means to be a woman.
----The word 'feminine' always reminds me of a motherly figure. Often being feminine can mean not being good enough like when someone says you act like such a cry or are you getting in touch with your feminine side like it's a weakness.
Bella mentioned crying being associated with "getting in touch with your feminine side" as if that is a weakness. Has anyone heard it used that way before? Do you agree/disagree with how it's used?
----I've heard the opposite mentioned a lot. To stop crying coaches have said "man up" and the like. I definitely disagree in both cases - men should be allowed to cry and it shouldn't be a feminine trait to be in tune with your emotions and to express them.
----I think the word feminine is a fluid definition....that's why we're discussing stereotypes.
----I've heard it often said to males as if being feminine would strip them from their male bravado.
(2) What first comes to mind when you think of the word masculine?
----Trucks and dumb stuff like that.
----Physical strength.
----A little bit of aggressiveness? Idk.
----The word masculinity provides this air of mystery.
(3) How do you think these stereotypes (also known as gender roles) negatively affect us?
----Because it puts people in boxes that they don't belong in and strips away parts of what it is to be human. Like crying which is a no-no for men.
How about it makes us have false expectations? Or make assumptions?
----Yeah totally!
----Yesssss agree with Amelia.
----Gender roles can set boundaries, it can cause one to feel caged inside themselves. It may feel that their own identity is an insult or depends on where they live they may be gender injustice which would make them hate themselves more.
----I think the stereotypes create these paths that kids feel they need to go on. They think they have to live up to certain expectations in order to be successful.
----We feel like we have to live up to a certain quality or characteristic.
----I have been told I am too aggressive, talk too loud or laugh too loud for a female and not lady like.
----It can lead to false expectations like a certain job should be done by a woman like cooking is quite often seen as an expectation.
----I think there's a difference between how we perceive ourselves and how society perceives us. I think of myself as a strong female who's taken control of her career path and worked hard for her dreams. Others may think that I'm pursuing a job that I'm not fit for in a male-dominated field.
----But the media also presents these certain characteristics that should and should not be found in women or men, so it succumbs us all into this social pressure to fit in.
----Yup, I am aggressive and my gender has nothing to do with it.
----I think people who are just who they are. They may have been influenced by gender roles but I don't see them as a product of their gender, just people.
(4) What are some stereotypes about sex that you can think of?
----The one who tops is more dominant as in their sexual position suggest their personality.
----Women are promiscuous if they desire sex outside of a relationship.
----That's right and it's a double standard because it mostly doesn't apply to men.
----That oral sex is bad because it puts one person below the other. That's a bad sex stereotype.
----I hear this one in RS from time to time... if she's not a virgin she's used goods.
----If someone has an STD they are perceived as a person who has no morals.
----If she tells you to stop halfway, it's still consensual; if she invites you over for dinner, she's asking for it. If she's wearing a short dress and has makeup on, she definitely wants some.
What about these stereotypes....what do you think of them?: Men cheat more than women. Women don't watch porn.
----One is harmful and the other is false.
----Or that women who talk about sex even masturbation, are viewed as I don't even know what word to use. Makes me sad coz I talk about sex all the time.
----I actually hear the women cheat more than men one more often….usually by men.
----I think the one about women is valid. A lot of women are embarrassed to talk about their sexual interests/ porn because it's not accepted by society. And a lot of porn is created by men for men and doesn't take into account what female viewers desire.
But, is there a difference between embarrassed to talk about and actually doing? Many women watch porn. But, partly because of the embarrassment, there is a stereotype that women don't watch porn?
----I just think that the stereotype exists for a reason. Women are less likely to admit they watch porn than men are because it's ‘unladylike.
----I agree. I have been called names for discussing porn and sex freely.
(5) Do you think the media plays a role in how we think about different genders and sex?
----The media does everything!
----Yessss.
----I think it does A LOT.
How so? Can you all provide some examples?
----Yes, most definitely. The media is the reason why women are all about pink and men are not seen wearing it as often (stereotype!), just an example.
----Media plays a big role especially when a male cheats like in the showbiz, it could be celebrated and offered jobs. But when Kristen Stewart did, she lost the role she was going to play.
----Donald trump, fox news. That the vitriolic opinions expressed by Trump et al give the impression that it is ok to talk about women in such ways.
----Also, Ruby Rose came out as androgynous and the media paid attention, they advertise her as the face of it but in real androgynous people can be plus sized, with larger feminine parts, and so on.
----Oh of course they do! They are about status quo and sensationalism.
----One of the funniest Jon Stewart clips is when he talks about Caitlin Jenner. He argues that when she was defined as "male" the media spoke about her Olympic achievements, but once she was defined as "female" it was suddenly ‘is she hot in a bathing suit?
----I read this book "The Lolita Effect" about how the media sexualizes young girls. There's a lot of outfits that are sexualized and they're for like 12 year olds...
(6) Do the stereotypes about gender roles play into stereotypes about sex?
----Totally!
How so?
----Certainly do.
----Disrespect for women as portrayed in the media affects and influences people. Could easily manifest into sexual relationships.
----The woman is supposed to be the homemaker while the man earns the bread; yes, even in the 21st century a lot of people think so because of the media.
----How females can come across as seductive.
----Or a tease.
----I also don't like the stereotype that it's funny to laugh about a man raped by a woman because of gender roles.
----Idea that it's more OK to commentate on womens bodies (positively or negatively).
----Like the man should be forceful during foreplay and sex and the female or other partner should be submissive.
----Well, I personally think they pretty much do... as Sunset mentioned….its kinda like the norm that most of the times, it is the man who should initiate almost everything.
So, according to stereotypes, the men should initiate sex tends to be the stereotype. And, are women viewed as "slutty" if they initiate sex?
----Yeah, I've missed a number of sexual encounters because of that stereotype making females less likely to initiate.
----Not only that….a couple of days ago, there was a case here in India where a girl clicked couple of pictures of a guy, posted them on social media and blamed the guy for being an eve teaser... and all of social media went berserk and blamed the guy... later when the truth came out….almost everyone apologized for being wrong, except the girl... and the guy asked just one question: ‘everyone blamed me for eve teasing without asking or listening to my side of the story... was it just because am a guy??
----I think it depends where you are from. Where I'm from in my experience woman have not been shy at all to initiate anything, and are not view as slutty. I know many people actually find a woman who can initiate something really attractive.
----I've heard entirely too many comments along the lines of "she's so hot, I want to ( ) her" or "I'd ( ) that if she had a paper bag over her head" ... Both nauseating.
(7) Why do you think we stereotype?
----How we are brought up, what our mates say, what the media portrays.
----It is part of human nature. Helps us to understand things at the cost of oversimplifying complex matters.
----Attempt to make sense of the world, based on past experience we have with it.
----I agree--how we are brought up makes a huge difference.
----Maybe because of an experience someone had in the past…and they thought that all the people of that sort are similar...hence comes out a stereotype.
----Especially where we are brought up, location plays a HUGE role.
----I live in the Bible Belt and it is very problematic to even discuss sex.
----I mean, at one point of your life or the other….you might have come across a girl saying that "All guys are the same"... now, did she go through all the 3 billion guys on the planet or did she go through just a couple or maybe one or two and then came up with the theory that "All guys are the same"????
----I love talking about sex. Sorry it's problematic there.
----Ahh ok, Where I live we are very open about sex, both male and female.
----It's also who we are. I don't know. Like I grew up in a very conservative family where sex is not ever mentioned ever. But I talk about sex openly.
(8) So then, whats the best way of stopping stereotypes from being propagated?
----Don't fall in line with beliefs that are derived from stereotypes. Venture to find out more about people and understand that everyone is an individual.
----Why simply to break them, to refuse to indulge or follow themselves ourselves, we need to recognize that humans aren't stationary/items that can be fit into boxes; there's a reason that every one of us is unique.
----Generalizations are very problematic.
----Or, who we are and who we decide to be.
So, perhaps discouraging generalizations. What about encouraging open discussion?
----Its the general mindset and the ignorance of the people that needs to be changed…then only such stereotypes will be eradicated.
----Open discussion is superrr important.
----Ame, open discussion can be very helpful, yes but it would be hard if the parties involved where reluctant to discuss it.
True. But why are we reluctant? Is it because of the stereotypes we are brought up to believe?
----Social norms is my guess, shame possibly.
----Shame from lack of conformity in expected roles.
----Or, it could be possible that we're reluctant because we do not want to be proven wrong?
Shame, social norms, fear of judgment?
----Ego too.
----Well think about it this way, if you're on a road and there are signs on where to go - you find it easier to navigate, you're a happy guppy but if you've got no signs, it becomes difficult - we feel handicapped without stereotypes because that means it's a new path.
----Fear of judgment is a big one.
----I've never heard these things since leaving middle school to be honest. (Sunset7)
----Wow, Sunset7. I still hear these things--in adults. (Amelia)
----That stinks, Amelia. (Sunset7)
----Where I used to intern, men used to make lewd comments about women and in the beginning I didn't stop them because of peer pressure, later I learnt to ignore such guys.
----Say, a guy has sex with a lot of people, most of the time he will want to brag and tell everyone, a woman does the same and most would be inclined to keep it to themselves.
----I do agree....and when such a thing does come out in public, they will call the girl lewd names and nobody will say anything to the guy who acts similar.
----Whatever we have in our mind is what we are comfortable with.....there are high chances that what we might know next can bring us out of our level of comfort... hence, we show reluctance...
----Maybe a better dialogue for sex in society would reduce this bragging stuffs.
----Yes, that's a great possibility.
(9) What is something you have learned from todays discussion?
----That I love sex and no matter what others say….I am who I am and I like what I like.
----I learnt that I have a place where people are equally open minded as I am....and if I discuss something here, I wont feel like am banging my head against a wall…or trying to teach ‘how to play harp to some pigs.
It seemed to me that some of us (including myself) have learned that other locations are very different from where we are.....anyone agree?
----Deff agree ^^^.
----Yeah totally! Different places have different kinds of weird.
----I feel like society in general is becoming more open to sex and related discussions, does this relate to where you guys live? (kdog)
----I think it does, kdog. Because society where I live has not progressed to that point.... (Amelia)
----Kdog, I agree with you, but I think it's the newer generation taking over rather than the older one changing. c:
There was one statement that stood out to me enough to list it a second time separately as I feel it's an observation that sums up the whole conversation:
----One of the funniest Jon Stewart clips is when he talks about Caitlin Jenner. He argues that when she was defined as "male" the media spoke about her Olympic achievements, but once she was defined as "female" it was suddenly ‘is she hot in a bathing suit?
Tags
@Sunset7 @Bella_ @blackenedflame @WindnBreezy @CourageDearHeart @Caringpotato @DHawks @AdVictoriam @StormsWillPass @Minionator @kdog334 @Lilylistens
