Open Discussion on Muting!
Hi everyone!
As muting is a hot topic around here, I wanted to start an open conversation about it!
You all have been using the mute button to better curate your experience at 7 Cups! That is what the mute button was designed for. HOORAY :)
--------> Our team of dedicated mentors and moderators have the ability to execute a "moderator mute." When you receive a moderator mute, this is what should happen:
1) User is violating one of the community/chatroom guidelines
2) Depending on the nature of the comment, a moderator will give a warning to the individual. A warning should look like this:
?Hey XX, your behavior is currently in violation of chat room guidelines number X, could you go review this guideline??
3) The warning should be professional and kind.
If you are the recipient of a warning, no worries. It happens. It's all about how you react. It is okay to receive a warning, to learn from it and to grow. If you receive a warning, no big deal! Go take a look at the guidelines and come back to the chat room to continue the conversation. Accept it as a moment of growth!
4) If you continue to engage in the behavior, another warning may be given. If the behavior continues, you will be moderator muted.
5) A moderator mute will last 24 hours. Once 24 hours passes, you will be free to enter the chat rooms again.
6) You can receive up to 3 moderator mutes. Once you receive 3, you will receive a global mute, which can last up to one year.
@heather & I are constantly reviewing the mute reports & here are some helpful things you should know:
- There is no such thing as a ?hacker or troll mute?
- If a mute is unfair, we can release it.
- Overwhelmingly, our moderators are very careful with the moderator mute and use it sparingly. Incoming reports are fair.
------> What should you do if you receive a mute?
If you are muted, no big deal. It happens. Feel fortunate for the opportunity to grow and learn from your behavior. Take some time to review the chat room guidelines and try to better understand how to improve behavior in this space.
------->Moderator muting also helps to remove trolls quickly and protect the space. We are very very luck to have such a wonderful group of moderators. Please join me in thanking them for helping to keep our space safe!
------->Let's all take ownership of our own mutes and use them as personal growth moments! A mute is reflection of your personal behavior and only you are in control of that. Let's change the culture of muting.
Yet another great post from @Laura. One thing I would add is that moderators must be careful about the role we play as well. We cannot, for example, bait someone into an argument, then mute them when the person argues back. Not saying this happens, but being mindful of our own roles is critical. Yes, there are spammers which are quite obvious, but there are many gray areas here as well.
I have Autism, and some other severe social disabilities..i live my entire life in that gray area, i struggle with trying to get support without being fully open, because i am to honest and most people just ..are unable to handle 100% honesty in any situation.
i think muting people because you don't like what they have to say is silly anyway.
muting spammers or trolls is nessesary, but no one ever does it, they all just feed into the trolls and spammers and cause a huge mess. I am sure i get muted often, because i lack social filters, and will respond to any and all questions people ask honestly, most people dont want to hear the truth, and i'm unable to lie with them so they feel better, i dont really know why. Anyways i never mute anyone, mostly because i really dont care, i've been chatting online since 1996 there is not much that goes on in here i havnt seen 100 times worse someplace else, it's pretty mellow in 7 cups. come to think of it, i hardly see spammers or trolls really, the only people who get muted are ones in crisis freaking out in the group chats.
Sometimes it's helpful for me to remember that my truth is not "the" truth.
Dear @wanderngorc,
I respectfully disagree. My experience in the member chatrooms has been different.
-- "muting people because you don't like what they have to say is silly"
Moderators at 7 Cups are not authorized to mute someone merelybecause the moderatordisagrees with theperson'spoint of view. The chatroom rules state what behavior is impermissible. If a moderator mutes a participant solelybecause themoderator disagrees with anopinion,that's reportable conduct by the moderator and always has been.
If a member, guest or listener wishes to do an individual mute because they don't like what someone has to say, that's a wise moveto improve their experience and lessen their stress.
--"muting spammers or trolls isnessesary, but no one ever does it."
I have frequentlyseen moderators deal promptly and efficiently with trolls and spammers. There have also been several instanceswhere no moderator was present, and the other participants all muted a person violating rules, and it wasvery effective. The abuser gotbored and the other participants hada productive chat.
--"I am sure i get muted oftenbecause i lack social filtersandrespond to any and all questions honestly, most peopledontwant to hear the truth, andi'munable to lie with them so they feel better."
The rules state that participants are expected to be "kind, supportive and respectful." Not just civil, butKIND.SUPPORTIVE.
Therefore, moderators should mute/warn participants who are beingunkind orunsupportive--even if the participant is convinced his statements are"the truth." Telling someone they'rea whining crybaby who needs to grow up? It might be true,but it's not kind orsupportive.
"there is not much that goes on in here ihavntseen 100 times worse someplace else, it's pretty mellow in 7 cups."
I'm not sure what this means. That, because it gets horriblyugly in other chatrooms, we should be glad it's not asbad at 7 Cups and stop being strict about muting violators? Loosen up a little?(Because, after all, it onlygets a little bad at 7 Cups?)
To the extent that's opined here, I disagree.The reason thechatroomsat 7 Cups are "pretty mellow" is the carefulmoderating that prevails for the most part.The fact that things are 100x worse at other places? To me, that's irrelevant.
At 7 Cups, we invite people who are vulnerable,people who are lonely, depressed, anxious, confused, hurt, or perhapswishing they could die. I admire and supportthat 7 Cups does what it canto keep the chatrooms safe and supportive. And kind. Kind.
@Annie
@Annie
Wondefully worded!
@Randy_ This happened with me with a mod [details removed by AffyAvo]. She baited me into an argument and muted me and it was highly unprofessional of her.
@loyalBranch1497 I'm sorry to hear that happened. We don't allow names or descriptions of people to be shared here when there's an issue. You can leave a negative moderator review if you haven't done so already. There's a link in the chatroom rules to this form:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScmfpQqScgcFxOSHveQfbP52m-XNu-DBC6oK7ieTHrGQ4hJ3w/viewform
Thank you so much for this post! We all need to be on the same page so the site can continue to be successful and we can help as many people as possible.
I wonder if it would be possible (in SYS only) to have a way to formally create a SYS queue and as a mod, be able to facilitate temporary (non-punishment) muting for everyone except the active speaker and mod for about 5-10 min at a time to give the individuals a chance to share their story. At the end of the time (or the mod could end the "muting" early), the member can opt yes/no as to whether they want to open the room for feedback or to move on to the next person in the queue. We do this for teleconferences at work and it makes it so much easier to handle that. It would only be that one room though, and members could be reminded that the WR and other rooms are more appropriate for constant group chat and cross-talk.
Even if this is a second SYS that is specialized. I would love to mod a room like that or the way SYS used to be. Now, it's too hard to mod at all unless the regulars adore you and if you do try to open the floor up to letting people share their stories who need support, the regulars in the chat get angry and won't let anyone else get a chance.
I think this would take away, at least for one room, muting as a punishment and instead use it as a way to permit more attention to each person who wants it as long as they can wait their turn.
I am not sure that would work, often times there is a lot of people in the group chats most of them have already shared their story and just come to hang out and get minor support from friends they "know" and to offer support to new chatters who share their story in these rooms. muting them would likely cause them some distress because they are not sharing stories, but just talking generally, wile at the same time getting support in a general way
there needs to be a few things done to the chat interface used on this site imo for things to be more smooth, a bigger window, a stop auto scroll feature, a "tab"-finish feature for these incredibly long random names they give people, all of those things would help people see more and keep up with the room scroll better then muting everyone for most of the time they are in the chat room to chat.
It is a good idea though, and i'm not attack it or anything like that, sometimes people say i am mean, and i just want to make sure people understand i'm not mean , i'm just honest.
This is a little off topic-
That is an interesting idea. I wonder how effective it would be. I spend time moding a lot of different rooms. However, it?s always SYS that ends up in the ?hot seat?, and I?m not sure why. All of the rooms seem to have ?regulars? who keep in touch through the site on regular basis. When it comes to SYS, the ?regulars? seem to have a bad reputation, which I think is unfair. They are very kind and supportive. When a ?newbie? comes in they are greeted and asked if they would like to share.
SYS is usually pretty active, I usually see around 15 in the ?currently participating.? So if at least 10 people want to share, and they all want a full ten minutes, then that?s over an hour and a half. Many people don?t want to wait that long to share. Also if everyone else is muted, how could they support the person that is sharing? As more people come into the room, the longer the wait in the queue becomes. People will become impatient and leave.
This is what I have found helpful while moding SYS:
-Always make sure the ?newbie? feels welcomed.
-Ask everyone in the room to give them a welcome ?Hey guys! It?s ________ first time here. Can we all give them a warm welcome? (: ?
-If they share and no one seems to be offering support, paraphrase what they have shared and ask for support for them. ?Hey ________ said they are having a hard time adjusting to their life at college. They don?t get along with their roommate. Can anyone relate to this??
-The regulars can get a little wrapped up at times. However, with gentle reminders like, ?let?s make sure we support everyone? they can make SYS a great place.
Off topic too but a reply to Olivia - Lately, in SYS, I have been afraid of greeting new people, especially people on guest accounts. They come in, say that they are new and ask what the site is about, and usually at least 2-3 of us jump in to say something to them, but then all of a sudden the new person will start complaining that "oh I'm being ignored/unsupported." I always get the impression that it's someone who is not new to the site but wants to trick us, or something, so they can complain and get us muted. I am a regular in SYS, I will freely admit, but I have been told I am mean by these supposedly new people.
Craney, I am sorry this is happening to you. It does sound like it is frustrating. 7Cups is a supportive place. However, don?t feel obligated to engage with someone who is bothering you. You can always use the ?mute? button. This will make it so you can no longer see their messages.
I hope you have better experiences here.
I think this is a good reminder to us to show kindness in the rooms, and not to respond to new members with a harsh or untrusting tone!
I find that it depends on the time of day. It's sys in the afternoons. But at night it's depression, and as it gets into the late night, anxiety :)
Most people in sys and the other rooms are pretty responsive to you sort of "taking over" and asking them to sort of wait "in line"....what I usually do in every room is say hello to new members, tell them what the room is currently discussing, and invite them to join in. In SYS, I ask someone to tell their story (based on who came in first) and then ask everyone an open-ended question: "has anyone else dealt with (fill in the blank) and what did you do?" So far it seems to work. Most of the time people do pretty well supporting eachother but occasionally it gets to the point where everyone's sharing and no-one's listening which is when I say "I hear (username) talking about (subject), has anyone else dealt with that?"
I tend to sign on around the time of day that will be in my date stamp for this post. I find that around this time of day, it is tough to get SYS to want to go by that style. The style you're talking about I have found highly effective UNLESS there are regulars in the room who don't usually have a mod or they aren't used to that style.
Awhile back, we had rooms that would only open when a mod was available. Maybe we could have a different SYS room that only opens when a mod can mod it and that is separate from the room that already has regulars. Perhaps that would be a way to please everybody.
I think that would be a good feature to have. Currently, i can't even get into the chats and I know a couple of mods have had the same issue. I'm not sure what that is about but I do think greater, I don't want to say control but guidance is needed. There need to be clear rules for what the rooms are about. I find that in sys a lot of people feel frustrated/unheard because they came to tell their stories and no-one is listening. You're right. If there were a clear format to deal with that it wouldn't happen :)
I keep hearing that if 3 members mute someone, this is equivalent to a mod mute? Is this true? If so is it for 3 mutes only, or 3 mutes with a report? If it is the former, that seems odd to me as people are encourage to mute others if they find what is being said upsetting, whether or not it's against the rule.
When someone has a 24 moderator mute, can they enter as a guest or with another account?
These are really good questions. I've been modding before where this happened with members muting members and then blaming me when I had not muted anyone. And yes, they can always proxy jump or find a way around the mute to come back under a different name, which happens regularly.
It's a really good question. I've had members pm me saying they were muted and even had a friend call me, after I referred her to 7cups, and say her IP address seemed to have been blocked from the site. I know I didn't mute the muted members: I usually give 3-5 very clear warnings before I do something so harsh, especially now that you can just take down individual messages without having to cut the member off from support. I think that feature is great because it says "I'm still accepting you but I am not accepting your comment"
I like the way you put that. I agree wholeheartedly about your last sentence. I wish there was an easy answer.
Bouncing a little from@affectionateAvocado35comment aboutthe 3 members = a mod mute,how quickly are these reviewed to ensure they're done with the right intentions? With the amount of cliques appearing and growing every week atleast on the teen side, it's quite easy for one of them to team up against outsiders they don't like or have an issue with sometimes unfairly so. I agree members should have some power over the chat room and shouldn't feel they can't do anything if a troll appears while there's no mod present but someone needing support could also be muted by the clique members. Perhaps if a listener could be added to the rule it would create some kind of balance? (3 members+1 listener=mod mute)
ooh and also, to end on a positive note (something I forget to do sometimes :p) thank you for posting this! Encouraging people to take a mute as a learning experience is really important! A mute doesn't mean the mods or anyone hates you, just that you might need some time away to reflect :) awesome post!
I've suggested a couple of times, just having the rooms open when a mod is present. First it would help with us knowing which room to go into: some days there are four mods in one room and zero in another. Second it would keep cliques from forming because even though there might be less rooms open all of them would have a mod.
I like that suggestion but I also like having rooms that don't have mods or "visible" mods. Perhaps having some rooms that mods can open specially and some rooms that the regulars can use? That way the regulars can still hang out and feel supported but the people needing on-topic support can get attention too.
That's true too. My rule for myself is to sort of click on the rooms and to only jump in as a mod if something requiring moderation is going on. I feel like I'm being disruptive if I moderate a page where people are already engaged in positive, supportive discussion.
But then again I'm a mom of teenagers....same model. Pop your head into the rec room, and if they're hanging out and creating a positive space, pop back out again. If they're agitating eachother, step in XD
I think 3 member mutes no longer are equivalent to a moderator mute. In case there is a troll and no mod is around they can fill the emergency form and contact us.
Ah thank you, i must be going off old info :p
Thanks! I hadn't heard of a change regarding this.
This happened to me today because I told 2 members to taketheir romantic relationship off of 7 Cups, which is something they've been told not to do for almost a month. I believe that I was muted by the 2 members, and their friends, and now I can't get in the Listener chat.
I think that this shouldn't happen, and if 3 member mutes must beequal to a mod mute for all, then listeners should at least be able to participate in the Listener chatrooms. I told a mentor what happened, and she said that it would be easier for me to wait for the 24 hours to expire, but I'm very upset that when I try to help keep order, I am muted.
Agreed Amo. I REALLY think that 7cups should review the notes before banning a mod or listener from the chats. Oftentimes we are "reported" for asking people to stop giving out personal information, stop playing out romantic relationships in the chats, or discontinue bullying another member. I'm sure I've been reported at least five times in one day for asking five or six people to stop attacking another member. I have never seen a mod make a decision for anything but to better the chat experience for anyone involved.
You have really excellent feedback. Agree with this wholeheartedly.
The matter here is mods often don't warn people nor let it clear they have been muted. I've seen people being muted over generic, non-explicit sexual problems (which are as valid as any other issue). Many times, if someone has a different opinion, the mod will mute them right away. Do you know how frustrating it is to be speaking without anyone answering when you are weakened?
@WaitingShadow
I have been muted when others have bashed me and I bashed them back.
One of the mods are playing favorites.
These chatrooms few years ago when I joined used to be friendly and wholesome.
Is a mute two way or one way, is a mute between two people mutual? I mean if if I mute somebody does it also hide my text from them also?
Good point energetic! I'm not sure it does because I've seen a member mute another member, and then the other member continues to comment, and ask others to HELP them comment, on what they are saying to the person who has muted them so that they don't have to hear the negative/insulting commentary. The end result is always the person who was bullied leaving, unless you mute almost everyone in the room to keep them from helping the online bully to harass the victim. I would really like clear rules on what to do when something like this happens. I'm a person too :)
I think the concept of a mod mute is interesting. I've been through a lot of forums, and I've seen a lot of trolls. I've seen a few here, and this place is the kind of place that trolls will flock to... eventually. Think about it, we are people at their lowest, many people that come here do so because they aren't comfortable in otherplaces. We are, by definition, easy pickings for trolls. I think the mod mute is a necessary evil, and I'm glad it's there.
That being said, it should be used sparingly, and it should be reviewed. I hope the policy of "3 mod mutes == a 1-year mute" is reviewed and not automatically started by the 3rdmod. That's just a little too easy to 1) abuse, and 2) trigger without meaning to.
I have a comment as well: If you are "muted" by a member / Listener, the mute should REQUIRE a publicly accessible reason. I have been muted by a Listener, and honestly I never knew why. When someone mutes someone else, they should do so for good reason. They should be required to post that reason, and it should be readable by the person that set the mute, the person they muted, and the mods. If youdon't have a reason posted, the mods should be able to lift the mute. If you don't feel you have a good enough reason to share it with the other person... maybe it's not good enough to mute someone.
Also, it's silly that you can't unmute just one person. If I mute multiple people, the only option I have is to unmute everyone I've ever muted. If someone is being stalked / harassed by a particular voice, and they choose to mute someone else, then change their mind, they should not be required to unmuteother potential harassers just to remove one person's mute.
Mute is a double-edged-sword. If someone is saying something you disagree with at the moment, or being annoying at the moment, and you mute them... you have quieted the voice and your mind may be easier at the moment. But remember, you have quieted a voice. You have removed an opinion from your life, you have removed a source of learning and possibly useful information from your world. It shouldn't be done without good reason... and it should be traceable and removable.
Thank you for opening this to discussion. Let's hope it fosters positive change :)
Trolls wont like it here very much , there is not enouh attention to be had, the group rooms only have a few people in them and everyone else is busy 1 on 1. you get trolls yes, but i've found them to be actually not very good at trolling, almost as if they are less inteligent or something, it was easy for me to defuse the two i met and offer them support for what makes them want to be a troll. but my input is limited, i have only seen two trolls.
people who mute other peoples opinions are not looking for the possibility of learning something anyways, they are just looking for other people as close minded and ignorant as they are to agree with them, you can't help these people, they can't listen.
This is the interent, so one has to assume a lot of people will not agree with everything you say. You run across these people who think that because they say something a set way, everyone must agree with them and are often blown away when part of the room disagrees with them. then they get upset and set about attacking those who didnt agree with them, it's very interesting watching people interact from my standpoint, i have autism, so it's difficult for me to interact, but i watch a lot of poeple interacting with eachother though.
I think because this is the internet..it's okay to mute people for whatever reason a person wants to. I think muting someone is better than using inappropriate language with them and harassing them.
This is a volunteer-based site so I'm pretty sure that if people were "forced" (aka "made" aka "required" to give a reason why they blocked/muted someone they would just leave. As a listener, I only block a conversation based on the reasons set out in my profile, and I don't believe in the concept of force as an effective tool for any interaction between human beings. People, even listeners, even moderators, have an inalienable right to walk away, and you don't have a right to force them to tell you why, or force them to agree with you.
Muting is great for trolls and spammers but the problem I've seen or have run into is what do you do when there isn't a moderator around to help. This is a problem as well, especially in the later hours at night and earlier hours in the morn. Something needs to be done.
If you look at point #11 in the chatroom rules you can fill out a form to bring a mod in.
What, exactly, happens after a mod request form is submitted? As a mod, I've never gotten one of those reports and there doesn't seem to be an automated way to respond. It would be nice if someone could "flag" a chat and that would come up automatically in the group chat for mods or something.
