Making 7 Cups Sustainable
7 Cups is a very unique organization. We dont necessarily do things in what might be considered normal or typical ways. Instead, we tend to stay close to our community, keep our options open, learn, and evolve as we grow. We believe that this model allows us to discover the path that will most directly lead to us fulfilling our mission.
Some companies would have started with revenue right at the beginning. We didnt because we thought that focusing on income at the start would force us down the wrong path. Our vision is to be the emotional support system for the Internet. This is a hard goal. Focusing on money right out of the gates would have made it an impossible goal. We knew that and instead poured our energy into figuring out more important things.
Well, now that weve been on this journey for 2 years, it is now time to address the revenue issue. We have to take steps to make sure that 7 Cups cups exists and, indeed, thrives for years and years to come. This is not something novel to 7 Cups. Every organization has to address the income issue. It doesnt matter if you are a for-profit or a non-profit. Regardless, you have to generate income one way or another if you want to continue to survive and grow.
Fortunately, we are not recreating the wheel here. I wrote in another post that the organizations I feel that we have the most in common with are the Samaritans and Alcoholics Anonymous. We share many similarities, including: we are volunteer organizations, we help millions of people, and people get help and then give back as listeners/counselors/sponsors. These organizations have had unparalleled success in reaching people and accomplishing a tremendous amount of good with very little resources. Theyve also been around for decades. In the future, Id love for someone to be able to say the same thing about 7 Cups. However, in order to be counted in their company, we have to make sure that 7 Cups is sustainable.
We can look further to these organizational models for guidance. The Samaritans are sustainable because they raise $11,000,000 in donations each and every year. That sounds like a lot, but I actually believe it is pretty minimal considering all the good that they accomplish. We can learn from them here and create our own ways for people to donate to 7 Cups. We are still fleshing out the details. Itll be 100% optional. If people believe in our mission/vision and want to support what we are doing, then well give them the option of making a recurring monthly donation.
We can also look to for for-profit models for guidance. Software companies generate income by selling products to consumers or selling products to organizations. At this point in time it makes more sense for us to sell products to non-profits, companies, universities, and health systems. One product weve been working on is the student support system. In this model, we create a little 7 Cups island that a university can use to scale support for their students. They brand it and recruit listeners from their school to listen to other students at their school that are going through a hard time. The plan is to have a free version and a premium version. The premium version would include things like access to data/reporting, single sign-on, paths for specific issues, and custom branding. This same model works for health systems and nonprofits. We havent walked too far down this path, but there are some positive signs and some indication that we can use this as one stream of revenue to keep 7 Cups sustainable. Ill write more on this in a separate post this week.
Im not at all interested in advertising or any other options that would tax the system or make it harder for people to seek help. Streams of revenue will always be evaluated in the context of our mission. If it inhibits us or makes it harder to reach our mission, then we will not consider it as a viable option. If it helps make us sustainable and helps us reach our mission, then well consider it a viable option. To be clear, 7 Cups will always be free and accessible to all.
In reviewing the above, we see that we can learn from and incorporate elements from both the non-profit and for-profit worlds. 7 Cups as a social enterprise for-profit straddles both worlds. I set 7 Cups up this way intentionally, because I want us to be robust and antifragile. If your organization only accepts donations, then you can be significantly impacted when there is an economic downturn like a recession or depression. People simply give less during these times. If we were 100% dependent on donations, then that would threaten our organization if we were unable to keep donations coming in at a reliable rate. On the other hand, if your organization only sells products, then you can only survive as long as people continue to buy your products. If 7 Cups were 100% dependent on selling products, then our organization would come under threat if we were unable to sell enough products. The model I have outlined here incorporates both elements to increase the chances of 7 Cups surviving and thriving in both good and bad times.
We will be releasing the new design very soon. Once that is live and working well, well roll out some of the above options that Ive discussed. Look for another post soon on the white label version I discussed where any organization can launch their own support system. Thanks!
@GlenM, this was a very good read, you clearly demonstrated how business and good for society can go hand in hand and that's a small feat in today's world.
Of course 7 cups needs a way to be sustainable because it reaches out to a lot of people and the longer it stays around, the more people it can help.
The option to donate would be a nice addition because I think many people will opt for it considering how healing this platform is to one and all. Mini 7cup islands for organisations is also a brilliant idea and honestly, I might even pitch it to my University once it's steady and rolling because a support system like that could help students reach out in a more efficient way. Depending on a combination of both as a revenue stream is smart.
I did see the screens of the new designs and they looked fantastic! Fingers crossed that it integrates into the existing features nicely when launched. Can't wait for your next post!
Thanks @DHawks! I appreciate the encouragment. We've thought a lot about this and this model seems to make the most sense.
I also really appreciate your willingness to pitch it to your school. I'll write more about this soon. The need is huge and current efforts really don't meet the demand at most universities. I have some exciting new to share, so look for more later this week.
@DHawks - In the meantime, just in case you are interested and perhaps have one, in the UK we have NightLine. Many universities have them (people can volunteer to create them), although not all. It is basically the same thing.
You can go in, call them or email or text them in the evenings (although services may vary depending on the location!). Worth a mention.
@QuickJazz, you're always so informative and knowledgeable. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. This seems like such a good idea for support.
I recently moved to America for college and they don't seem to have any such option that is so well developed like Nightline. We do have free counseling available but a lot of people don't go in due to fear of being judged or/and the fear that the person on the other end won't understand them.
But I do have very many friends in universities back in the UK, and I shall recommend Nightline to them and look into it myself, thank you again for mentioning it!
This is really interesting, Glen! Some of my favorite organizations branched out from being a social network to business. (Like DFTA/VlogBrothers and other youtubers, for example.)
There always seems to be a negative reputation that comes along with the word "business" or "profit," but it really is important to make sure you are able to sustain your company and yourself. No revenue just means everything is gone. I'll be interested in seeing how the website develops!
As a note, I would love to see that school support system. That would be an amazing resource to have. I know that on my campus, they had a small networking system for some parts of the campus (e.g LGBTQ+ had one), but it wasn't easy to really get the word out to those who weren't really involved in that comunity. There wasn't an overall cohesive system, and it would definitely help colleges to have that. Some students ended up going onto social media like yikyak and facebook confessions to find anonymous support from other students so there is obviously a need for something like that! I look forward to reading more about it.
good point about these connotations, @kane
I've been involved with many cool volunteer activities that eventually petered out when the founding group ran out of steam.
Over time I've come to think of my projects a bit like children. They require love, support, and nurturing, but eventually they need to get a job and move out of the basement :D
Haha, that's a good way to think of it! @KrinkTheMellowUnicorn
I worked for a non-profit at one point as a program/district manager, but I ended up quitting for a variety of reasons. One of which was just a refusal to let go of things and focus on long-term longevity! (Plus the pay was abysmal. I lived on financial aid that year, haha.)
At some point, we need to give our projects room to stand on their own. I'm excited to see 7 cups do that, haha.
I completely understand the need to keep 7 Cups up and running, and I'm so glad that you are thinking of ways to gather money while also making the site just as accessible as always. And I agree that selling products to universities would be s great idea. I'd love to see kids at my college wearing the products and spreading the word. Thanks for all you do.
Glen, this is an awesome post! I've been wondering when revenue would start factoring in. I know some people do get upset about business like you said, but really nothing can stay active and robust without investment. I think a lot of people, me included, would be okay with donating. Are you considering fundraising too? I don't know if that's viable, I have no experience in marketing, just a thought.
As for your school program, that sounds awesome. My school has some programs where you can go talk to people for free, but they are either counselors or adult staff. I think a school version might be really great because I know when I was in college I would've really liked something like this. It'd have to be anonymous still of course, because otherwise a bunch of 18-22 year olds will just spread gossip, but I know my school had a confessions sort of page and the posts got a lot of support. I'm willing to reach out to my alma mater if you need me to once it's set up or whenever. I'm not sure how it all works, but I'm all for it.
Thanks @EvelyneRose :). I appreciate the positive feedback. This thread is very encouraging to me. I would welcome your support! I'd also welcome your help in spreading the word to your alma mater. I think most university counseling centers are really overwhelmed, have long wait lists, and the research is pretty clear that 50% of the students don't go b/c of stigma. Overall, it is a situation where we can really help. I'll message you when we are ready for next steps. This is making me realize that we need to put a little process together as to how to help spread the word to colleges and universities. Thank you again!
yeah I believe it was set at 12 free sessions a year, so thats only 1 a month. i am not sure how it is at different schools in terms of waiting list, but I know I usually saw people in there in the waiting room when I went.
As for revenue, have you thought of something like what netflix does? People pay 8.99/month or something for streaming access to a ton of movies/tv shows, but I know I pay for it for the chance to just have on demand access to something I can watch if I feel like watching things. And they do get good tv shows. But anyway, my point was maybe listeners could opt in to paying a certain amount a month? I know I would if it meant helping out. Obviously it'd be optional, but maybe along with donations and selling products, you could think about that too. Like a payment plan and in return you get...maybe extra perks? I am not sure, it was just a thought. There's like reddit gold which Reddit uses to give users who get it extra perks or whatever, but maybe something more 7cups value oriented. I'm mostly thinking outloud.
@EvelyneRose, this is something I thought about. I think the perks idea can be interesting, but one thing I struggle with is pretty much all we do is help people on our site. I wouldn't want a perk to be a way that somehow helped people less. One thing I thought of was a small green icon that had a leaf on it. This could go on your profile if you wanted. Additionally, you could choose one other member or listener to share it with to suggest it is a shared gift from the both of you to help make 7 cups more sustainable. The green icon would show up on both profile pics. I'm not 100% on this yet, but I do feel like we want to thank people in a public way and I think this icon idea gets at it without holding back ways to help others. How does that sound to you?
@GlenM @EvelyneRose the leaf idea sounds awesome, thanks for the interesting read(s) haha. Completely on the same page on this one
yeah I totally understand about the perks, I was just throwing out ideas off the top of my head. Well, you know how facebook has that feature where you can send gifts to people? No one uses it because it's facebook, but here the same idea might work. Or, how we used to have the tip system wayyy back when (this is how old I am here haha). I did like the optional tip system, except I know that would throw in how would we make it so it goes to both the listener and 7cups. But yea, the leaf idea I like. I know I'd be ok donating to certain listeners who did a great job if I knew it went to them and the site. I'm not sure of the specifics, I am not a finance person. I also like the idea of donating together! That way each person is spending less but feel like a team effort. Or maybe donating for causes! Like, when we do discussions, you have the option of donating and half of it would go to an org that helps that cause (anxiety ,depression, relationships, etc) and half to 7cups?
As an aside, how is 7cups a for-profit if we are considering taking donations as our revenue? I am just curious, I don't know much about the business world. I just thought nonprofits took donations because they don't receive funding from somewhere. Anyone can answer this question btw if you know it, I just am confused.
Lots to think about and figure out @EvelyneRose. Good feedback! In terms of social enterprise for-profit and nonprofits accepting donations, it is okay, but not normal for social-enterprise for-profits to accept donations. Some bands have done this with things like releasing albums and there are other services where something similar happens. The difference happens on the organization side. A nonprofit does not have to pay taxes on revenue generated from donations, whereas a for-profit does. As indicated above, we straddle both worlds, b/c we want to have multiple sources of revenue to increase chances of thriving through good and bad times.
@GlenM - Thank you for sharing this and letting us know the directions that 7 Cups is considering going in. As someone who cares deeply for this site, I'm thrilled to hear more about the plans to ensure its sustainability.
As you move towards that, please let me know if there's any way that I (or other listeners) can help. I'd be very interested in that business end of things and spend a lot of time on college campuses as a part of my job already...if you ever need a body on one of that campuses I frequent, I'd be happy to lend a hand! :)
@Anomalia I will most definitely take you up on this offer. I'll also share a campus outreach plan with you once I create it :). Thanks!
I've heard alot of people say they wish there were more "older" listners in here to talk to. I've seen people on other sites state that this is more of a "younger" site and can't relate well. Maybe one can figure out a way to incorporate older listeners for particular age groups? Some have said 18yr old adult listeners can't relate to someone twice their age. Maybe that could be another way to make it sustainable? Just a thought.
I like this idea. Perhaps we could have age groups, or at least not just teens and adults. Maybe a teens, a young adults, and adults. I know I'm past the teen years so an 18 yr old might have a hard time relating to me if they were a listener and I'm a member, but I know that I can't relate to divorce or marriage or anything older adults can. I know only my world sphere at this moment, which is I can relate to teens as a Listener and I can relate to my age group of 20s. Other than that, it's a lot harder. Like, retirement isn't even on my thoughts. So, I think that'd be a nice idea. Maybe nothing too sectioned out into too many ages, but I understand that there is a need for older listeners to help people with those problems, especially as the population (at least in USA) is aging with the baby boomers becoming older, but also being technologically able.
THANK YOU EvelynRose! This is a very GREAT and VALUABLE point. You are exactly "on Point" with your statement. And hopefully they will take that into consideration.
@politeOcean93
aw thank you!
I feel this may be more a listener quality/confidence problem, than an age problem. In my opinion, the listening skills are more valuable than the inherent knowledge. Some may show more interest or curiosity in topics they know little about.
Many listeners do have an attitude of "I don't know about this problem, so I'll pass it on to someone else who does". I'd never enforce my approach on anyone, but I see each chat as a potential learning curve. I've never ever turned down a chat based on its topic, and through that have acquired a lot of experience and knowledge. Additionally, there are the self-help and listener training guides, to educate listeners on the matter.
Nonetheless I do think it'd be beneficial to have more older listeners anyway.
I agree to an extent. I think there are plenty of curious listeners, and that's great, but I still feel like 18 yr olds are going to be at a completely different level than me, and that's only because I remember being 18 and how vastly I've changed in such a short time. You jsut grow up so much. So, I feel like it is partially an age thing, but I definitely see where you feel that some people just need to accept a chat and it can be a learning curve.
@politeOcean93 this is a very valid point. Right now we have under 18 and over 18. What would be another level that you'd recommend? Like 30+ So might be - Listens to over 18 and 30+
Hi GlenM,
Yes, I personally have talked to many over 30+ crowd who have stated that they have tried to come here and don't feel comfortable speaking to listeners who are half their age. Such as 18 year olds. Most 18 year olds are not going to be able to relate to someone who is in their 40's and 50's. These folks should be able to have a closer age group of their own to listen to them. They have mentioned its also hard when a listener won't give them their age and they feel like they have wasted time talking to someone half their age who didn't understand them. I have personally gone through it and felt the same way when coming here as a "member" as well as some of my own friends who have come here to be heard. Just a thought to maybe revise listener age groups.Thank you for listening.
@politeOcean93 could you kindly think about the way you're phrasing this? I feel it is beginning to sound prejudiced. Prejudiced in the sense that you will not have spoken to "most 18 year olds".
I agree with your suggestion that having a senior side of the site would be beneficial, but to assert this is due to young listener inadequacy is quite a bold claim. As a 21 year old who has had many successful chats with people twice my age, I feel quite offended.
This is a listener quality problem, not an age problem.
Zedda there is no other way to phrase it. That is the bottom line. This is the way I have other members tell it to me and I am passing along the information. I was asked to reply to Glens thread and I did. This is not an opinion, this is what is stated to me by others who are also in my own age group. I have spent many days and nights sadly trying to find a listener who could understand "ME" just as others in my age group have . And its unfortunate that there are Not enough listeners in this age groups to help people in this age group.
@politeOcean93 in no way do I mean to be dismissive of the experiences you and others have faced. I am just sensitive to the manner in which you speak, as I fear what is genuine concern and disappointment may transform into prejudice, stereotyping and divisiveness.
I cannot choose my age. I can only choose to challenge myself as a listener and grow. What is equally frustrating as your experience, is the opposite, where a listener is asked their age, and when they answer honestly the member does not give them the chance to listen, as they have already developed an expectation of failure and dissatisfaction.
If this issue were to be solved individually, do you not see it quicker resolved? It only damages those within the community if you blame stereotypes.
Yes, I support there being a 30+ or 40+ plus side of the site, but what I do not support are generalisations of people purely based on their age, and not their experiences.
Well Zedda, you are putting words in to my mouth that I "never" spoke. And trust me when I say that I have given plenty opportunites to speak with those who were younger or half my own age ...and have had a decent experience or two. But as Evelyn Rose mentioned above, its about not being able to "relate" as an 18 or 20 year old to someone who is going through things such as marriage, job loss, retirement, raising a family etc....Its not that one can't "listen" but one also need to perhaps be able to "understand" and "connect" with that situation too...Which makes the listener even "more" valuable in the situation at hand.Its like you are 21, do you think an 11 or 12 year old could understand your problems or situations and relate? Put yourself in them shoes take the time to think on that.
I think perhaps we're arguing for the same thing, but from different schools of thought @politeOcean93. I'll try and explain my approach, not as "the only correct" one necessarily, but one I choose to take.
I believe an initial lack of understanding can be compensated by an appropriate level of interest, alongside asking the right questions, which I would assert is a particular skill. Could an initial lack of understanding be dissatisfactory? Potentially so, depending on the person however I would always argue that transferable listening skills trump personal knowledge. Transferable listening skills demonstrate interest, whereas parading your own personal experiences may not necessarily.
However, this must be balanced if not aided by personal knowledge, with imagination and empathy.
I think the perspective you may be coming from, correct me if I'm mistaken, is that the listening quality, and the quality of questions asked is contingent of initial understanding. I wouldn't be so bold to dismiss that claim, but it's all about the school of thought I guess.
Yes perhaps we are arguing over the same thing. However, anyone can "listen" and come up with the right questions simply by being "observant" or being "trained" to do so.I do it all the time with my own peers and friends. However I also feel that its important to be "understood" and "related" to on one's "own level" by a member of their own peer group who have been through the same things in life. It only makes the listening experience that much more meaningful and valuable to the member. (Ex: An 18year old who's just graduated Highschool, vs. a 50year old who has just lost a spouse or retired after a lifetime of working or is having empty nest syndrome). Yes, anyone can "listen", but it would be even more valuable if they were able to talk another person who is on that same level in life~ I myself am not that age yet, however, if I want to talk about issues regarding my own spouse, I'd rather do it with someone who's actually older and married also who can actually "relate" to me and my experience. Not a young adult who has not gone through that experience yet.
I think I understand what you're saying, @politeOcean93, and I agree to some extent.
Obviously, great listening skills will help someone of any demographic support others on a variety of topics. I've personally supported members of all ages on situations that I personally haven't experienced myself. However, that doesn't mean that older members will necessarily be comfortable with a younger listener. It's not that younger generations aren't adequate enough to support members on a variety of issues, but is more related to a generational difference, I think. There will be outliers where younger listeners are an exceptional fit for older members or older listeners mesh well with younger listeners, but that isn't necessarily always what will happen. Obviously, no one should automatically dismiss someone for any reason, but they shouldn't have to restricted in who they can speak with. If the member doesn't feel like they can speak with a listener, they deserve to be connected with someone who can provide them with the right supportive environment.
They should have more listeners in various age ranges and demographics, and I think we're starting to lean towards that a bit with the "life stages" forum. Hopefully it can be reflected across the board so members can choose listeners easier. The desire to a better search function isn't related to just age, and I hope we see that update in the new site design.
On an unrelated note, I'm so excited to see older listeners and members in the life stages forum. Ya'll are great.
Yes Thanks Kane for your input. And of course we don't want to turn anyone away. We do need to be able to be there for "everyone". However, yes it would be nice to start leaning a bit more toward some older listeners for our older members. I personally know many who would "come back" to 7cups if that were available to them.
@Kane @politeOcean93 I think something that we can all agree on is that if 7 Cups were to cater specifically for more mature adults, it would be taken much more seriously in the eyes of many.
@Zedda
Well, I think it's more like..many listeners are young, but I've seen quite a few members come on who need that older support from people who have been there or are at that experience. Not to say younger ones cannot help, just that as politeocean said, often having someone in the same realm of experience/maturity level can help. You could be 18 and have the maturity needed, or you could be 50, but the feel comfortable and supported is the important part.
@Zedda
Well, I think it's more like..many listeners are young, but I've seen quite a few members come on who need that older support from people who have been there or are at that experience. Not to say younger ones cannot help, just that as politeocean said, often having someone in the same realm of experience/maturity level can help. You could be 18 and have the maturity needed, or you could be 50, but the feel comfortable and supported is the important part.
Is 7 Cups looking at some point to get accredited? This may be an influential factor for increasing donations/donors. This also may encourage adults of older generations to join. In my opinion there are 2 major incentives to increase the amount of mature listeners;
1. Increase the variation of age in order to provide service for all. A few members have specifically requested there is a over 40s section of the site. Insufficient numbers make this unrealistic.
2. Adults of older generations (than in their 20s) are likely to be more financially responsible, in regards to a premium membership.
I'm pleased with this thread. Whilst many people may feel this is profit over people, what needs to be considered is that without profit or money, 7 Cups would not exist. People would not be helped, and wonderful connections will not have been made. We need to think pragmatically and realistic for a thriving community in the future.
Thank you @GlenM, for articulating your thoughts so eloquently.
Thanks @Zedda, I think 40+ can be a category we add. I just responded above as well. No plans to get accredited, b/c there really isn't a regulatory body for what we do here. It is too new and novel.
Good to hear and thank you for your explanation @GlenM
Sounds like a good idea. This is a good site, and financial supports will keep it going. I like the two pronged approach. A mentor of mine used to use the table analogy when discussing financial stability. The more legs you put on the table (revenue streams) the sturdier a table is (organizational life). I hope this works and 7 cups goes the distance.
Thanks for sharing this with the community, Glen! I really appreciate the transparency. Im excited about the school support feature - both my previous and current university have existing peer support and counseling programs, but like you mentioned there are still issues with accessibility. On the same page, just based off experience I know that music schools/conservatories especially would benefit from a support system, and thats an area Id love to ponder more about as the 7 Cups school program is introduced! I think like a lot of us here, Id love to share what we have at 7 cups with the communities we are building in our off-screen lives, and if that could help with the for-profit aspect in sustaining the site, even better :)
This sounds like a great idea, can't say I have much to offer as a teen, but I can appreciate it certainly. I love the idea about supporting students as for me, most of the requests I get some how centre around school. I really hope that 7 cups can be sustained as it clearly changes the daily lives of many and maybe more than that for some, it is an incredible community to be a part of and I thank you for even thinking of it! The love and kindness that is shown on this site is incomparable to any other place, whether that be in the real world or online. Many thanks and keep up the good work Rea.
